Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Jeremy Hunt

124

Comments

  • These reforms were not mentioned in their manifesto?
    Perhaps if a general election were fought on a single issue, that might be a valid comment.
  • MrOneLung said:

    SHG , I know you work for the nhs , quick question about their hours although not sure if you would know the answer. Workingthem 90 odd hours a week is that just for reasons of cover as not enough of them or is that if they were reduced to a normal 35-45 hour week it would take too long to actually train them to required standard?

    The rostering of junior doctors means that they have to work long and exhausting hours to cover all the hours that need to be covered by having too few doctors. The contract hours currently at a maximum of 91 hours per week are even to the most right wing views ludicrous. I doubt many get close to the 91 hours but many are close to or over 72 which is the new proposed maximum hours a junior doctor can work. I doubt many other occupations are expected to work consistently more than 60 (?) hours per week whilst maintaining a normal life and making life and death decisions. It has nothing to do with training per se. Although junior doctors numbers include new and relatively newly qualified the vast majority of junior doctors will be vastly experienced and been qualified many years. There are only so many consultant posts.

  • TelMc32 said:

    Perhaps if a general election were fought on a single issue, that might be a valid comment.
    So they were meantioned? And voted for? Damn democracy, not representing the people.
  • Thanks SHG.

    I thought junior doctors were just those in training. So anyone below a consultant is junior doctor?
  • MrOneLung said:

    Thanks SHG.

    I thought junior doctors were just those in training. So anyone below a consultant is junior doctor?

    That's correct. Many junior doctors have staff and run their own units.

  • MrOneLung said:

    Thanks SHG.

    I thought junior doctors were just those in training. So anyone below a consultant is junior doctor?

    Yes, the term Junior or Trainee Consultant would get a smaller sympathy vote, though.
  • I think the current dispute is mostly about the medical profession protecting it's controlling position than anything else. Consultants are effectively in control and they want to keep it that way. The BMA is the Consultant's union first and foremost and they are using junior doctors as cannon fodder to protect their working patterns - once the juniors work 7 days a week as a matter of course then consultants will be forced to follow.
  • edited February 2016
    '
  • Sponsored links:


  • Hex said:

    I think the current dispute is mostly about the medical profession protecting it's controlling position than anything else. Consultants are effectively in control and they want to keep it that way. The BMA is the Consultant's union first and foremost and they are using junior doctors as cannon fodder to protect their working patterns - once the juniors work 7 days a week as a matter of course then consultants will be forced to follow.

    Ten years out of date with this view. Consultants are already very controlled by protocol and management. The days of them doing pretty much exactly what they wanted are long gone. I'm not saying that that's necessarily wrong.

    It's not as straightforward as some think. Spreading the same number of staff over seven days in a seamless NHS won't work. More doctors needed and other staff groups barely manage now.



  • Ten years out of date with this view. Consultants are already very controlled by protocol and management. The days of them doing pretty much exactly what they wanted are long gone. I'm not saying that that's necessarily wrong.

    It's not as straightforward as some think. Spreading the same number of staff over seven days in a seamless NHS won't work. More doctors needed and other staff groups barely manage now.



    A year or so ago when the 'weekend' issue first arose a young doctor was interviewed on the radio. He generally agreed about the reduced availability of consultants and added that it was particularly senior consultants and this applied to Friday's as well. He explained the Friday issue was due to them wanting to move their day off (4 day working week) from, say, Tuesday (which they might be allowed as a junior) to Friday as they worked their way up the pecking order. He said this was only fair as many consultants have young families and they wanted a long weekend ! Bless !

    Ten years out of date ? I don't think so.
  • edited February 2016
    Hex said:

    A year or so ago when the 'weekend' issue first arose a young doctor was interviewed on the radio. He generally agreed about the reduced availability of consultants and added that it was particularly senior consultants and this applied to Friday's as well. He explained the Friday issue was due to them wanting to move their day off (4 day working week) from, say, Tuesday (which they might be allowed as a junior) to Friday as they worked their way up the pecking order. He said this was only fair as many consultants have young families and they wanted a long weekend ! Bless !

    Ten years out of date ? I don't think so.
    If didn't say there wasn't reduced consultant availability at weekends. There is. They work Monday to Friday. I don't know any that work four day weeks unless of course they are part time. At weekends because of there not being enough consultants to cover seven day seamless service they work an on call rota. It's not ideal but it covers emergencies. It will of course depend on the discipline they specialise in. It is now common for elective surgery to happen at weekends. Emergency always has.

    In reality what does this seven day service mean ? Do you suppose it means holding clinics on Saturdays and Sunday's ? I work in radiology. Routine CT and MR exams are now carried out on Saturdays. Would you expect a full complement of every NHS "job" to be exactly the same 24/7 ? I don't know what Hunt means. It's quite possible to achieve. Just needs more staff.

  • edited February 2016
    .
  • Hex said:

    Yes, the term Junior or Trainee Consultant would get a smaller sympathy vote, though.
    Strange comment. It's like saying every policeman is a trainee chief constable.
    Unbelievable Jeff

  • Hex said:

    A year or so ago when the 'weekend' issue first arose a young doctor was interviewed on the radio. He generally agreed about the reduced availability of consultants and added that it was particularly senior consultants and this applied to Friday's as well. He explained the Friday issue was due to them wanting to move their day off (4 day working week) from, say, Tuesday (which they might be allowed as a junior) to Friday as they worked their way up the pecking order. He said this was only fair as many consultants have young families and they wanted a long weekend ! Bless !

    Ten years out of date ? I don't think so.
    And the "qualification" of this one doctor as spokesman for a whole industry was?

    Not necessarily saying he was wrong, but you have already made your mind up about it, so anyone who agrees with your opinion is going to convince you more than, say, a fellow poster in the same industry with a take on it that is different to yours...
  • And the "qualification" of this one doctor as spokesman for a whole industry was?

    Not necessarily saying he was wrong, but you have already made your mind up about it, so anyone who agrees with your opinion is going to convince you more than, say, a fellow poster in the same industry with a take on it that is different to yours...
    I'm afraid you are the one who has already made up their mind.

    I didn't say the doctor was a spokesperson. However, he did come across very well and considered. It was what he said at the end, perhaps not realising what he was saying, that was quite worrying.

    I said it was when the death rate at weekends first came to light, the morning when the report was published I think, so I didn't have an opinion on it then.
  • Strange comment. It's like saying every policeman is a trainee chief constable.
    Unbelievable Jeff

    I am sure you will agree it's a pretty stupid title to give to such a wide range of experience. Junior would normally be applied to the very early years of experience at work, perhaps two or three. Calling them junior consultants would be equally misleading for those early years but more appropriate after that.
  • This junior doctor/career dogmatic politician en passe is indeed a tricky thing to unravel.
    I was at my local hospital recently to collect an elderly relative after his long awaited, quality of life transforming, minor surgical procedure. The poor old codger was lengthily delayed while his discharge paperwork was first found and then processed. I repaired to the onsite Starbucks for a beverage while I waited. While there I was scrolling through Google on my Apple iphone and looking up Take That(!) merch on Amazon (for my niece honest). It really is hard to think of ways in which the treasury could raise more taxes to better resource healthcare for our ageing population. It almost feels like answers should be staring us in the face, or at least obvious to the relevant officials in, say, 11 Downing St, cos our appointed ministers would naturally have me old uncle's best interests at heart, wouldn't they? The £6.80 for 65 minutes in the car park is a good start, mind.
  • Hex said:

    I am sure you will agree it's a pretty stupid title to give to such a wide range of experience. Junior would normally be applied to the very early years of experience at work, perhaps two or three. Calling them junior consultants would be equally misleading for those early years but more appropriate after that.
    Perhaps doctors would suffice.

  • Sponsored links:


  • Hex said:

    I'm afraid you are the one who has already made up their mind.

    I didn't say the doctor was a spokesperson. However, he did come across very well and considered. It was what he said at the end, perhaps not realising what he was saying, that was quite worrying.

    I said it was when the death rate at weekends first came to light, the morning when the report was published I think, so I didn't have an opinion on it then.
    You used his quote as if it were the ultimate opinion on the matter Hex, there was no "Not necessarily saying he was wrong" as I was swift to put in my response.
  • I thought it was because Joe Public voted for them to be their MP.
  • MrOneLung said:

    I thought it was because Joe Public voted for them to be their MP.

    Hardly likely to not be selected by his local Conservative party with his background and always in a safe Tory seat. Hardly living on the political edge.

  • Ten years out of date with this view. Consultants are already very controlled by protocol and management. The days of them doing pretty much exactly what they wanted are long gone. I'm not saying that that's necessarily wrong.

    It's not as straightforward as some think. Spreading the same number of staff over seven days in a seamless NHS won't work. More doctors needed and other staff groups barely manage now.



    True regarding consultants to some extent, however many still seem to be able to "slip away" when more lucrative private work beacons.
    Also true to say that Junior doctors had it just as hard twenty years ago if not harder, for far less money, and far more responsibility as they were pretty much left to get on with it whilst their consultant was at home waiting by the phone at night and at weekends.
    What has changed now drastically is the sheer volume of patients. That results in doctors having to spend less time with each patient and more mistakes being made. But Junior doctors can be helped greatly by efficient nursing staff, sadly from my experience, this is where the system is failing dreadfully. Good surgery can be wasted by poor aftercare, wound management, checking drips are running, giving drugs in a timely manner etc. My mother experienced all this and more yet again last week for the umpteenth time in the last ten years. Fortunately a porter came to her rescue and refused to take her for a scan until her fresh wound was covered with a dressing. Some of the things I heard astounded me, such as them forgetting to give her pain killers post op. When it was pointed out the response was, "I'll do it when I come back from having my tea". One hour later, still no pain killers. I could go on and on, but no point, appalling nursing care.

  • edited February 2016
    Damn Tories, sticking to their manifesto.....

    They are literally carrying out the will of the people.
  • Damn Tories, sticking to their manifesto.....

    They are literally carrying out the will of 24.4% of the people.

    That's the 36.9% share of the vote on a 66.1% turnout.

    Don't get me wrong. I understand what you are saying, but the electorate voted on a range of issues and not all who voted Conservative would have agreed with all of the policies. Likewise, some who didn't will approve of this.

    Parroting that "it was in the manifesto" doesn't actually add anything to the discussion though.
  • holyjo said:

    Random intervention ....... some years ago ( just prior to the Olympics) I had lunch with Jeremy Hunt. I found him to be reserved , quiet , steely ,friendly though non engaging. My work means I engage with politicians from all parties. My experience is that there in all parties there are politicians I can do business with. There are those who are great local champions for their constituencies. I work with an MP on the far right of the Conservative party and a Labour member on the left of the party. Both great local MP's. I also have experience of very weak MP's from both parties. I say this to contextualize JH from my perspective.

    There are a group of MP's who are in parliament by dint of the backgrounds, their establishment credentials. JH is one of those. 4th cousin to the queen , can trace a line back to the throne ( albeit some time ago) . I resent more than anything this group. Their representation is largely based on privilege and advantage. They sustain their influence by unfairly stacking the deck so that they retain power.

    Will he be proved right on current issues in the longer term - who knows. What appears to be un-challengeable, is that he has made a pigs ear of this deal , this negotiation , this reform.

    He can't be all bad he was instrumental in Waverley BC refunding me a contested parking ticket. He lives locally, seen him shopping with his kids in Sainsburys, meets local businesses and can't say he's a bad constituency MP. He set up his own business and made money, so let's slag him off as a toff whose only objective is to privatise the NHS and get a job with BUPA.

    Like all public sector strikes, where they pretend it's about protecting the public, it's a strike about pay organised by their trade union providing all the necessary spin to obscure the fact.

    I haven't heard anyone suggest JH is asking for more patients to be treated, or working more hours, just full services over seven days rather than five. Whether deaths are because of weekend rostering or not, it should be a seven day a week service without any difference in what services are available. Overtime opportunities being cut is the only issue that I can detect is causing an impasse.

    Doctors deserve every respect for having to work their nuts off, but unless I am being completely misled by what I've heard said on both sides, the only doctors to lose out are those who volunteered to work their nuts off over the weekend for overtime who can't work their nuts off and earn as much during the week. They are not complaining about working their nuts off though, doctors accept it goes with the job, and hours continue to be restricted.

    Why don't doctors just come out and admit why they are pissed off instead of all the bullshit. JH is criticised for failing to negotiate a deal without preventing the doctors being pissed off. Not sure how he could avoid it given the resistance to any change in the first place.

    If the patients interests had been to the fore the doctors and their union would have long ago come out on strike in favour of a seven day a week fully operational service with more resources. Doctors have failed to put their interests secondary to the interests of the NHS in my view.
  • He can't be all bad he was instrumental in Waverley BC refunding me a contested parking ticket. He lives locally, seen him shopping with his kids in Sainsburys, meets local businesses and can't say he's a bad constituency MP. He set up his own business and made money, so let's slag him off as a toff whose only objective is to privatise the NHS and get a job with BUPA.

    If you read the link that was provided earlier, the business he set up was one which was given a lucrative monopoly contract by his cousin, the former Health Secretary, Virginia Bottomley. Having quit politics she instead joined the British Council which, I'm sure purely coincidentally, decided that her cousin's company was the logical choice to supply the British Council. She's now a director of and lobbyist for BUPA. I wonder if she knows anyone who might be of use to a large supplier of health services?

Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!