I made a brief comment above, but now for the serious bit, having spent 3 weeks in hospital in Dec 14, as many of you know by now, what I observed was people trying to do their level best to look after me despite the hours they were being asked to work. One junior doctor looking after me started at 7 am and was still there at 11 pm!! He was knackered but still had a smile on his face, when I asked him what he was doing for Xmas, bearing in mind I was being kept in, he said sleeping Xmas day after he finished his Xmas eve shift ( after 12 hours) and then he was in from Boxing day through until New Years day without a break. But it wasn't just him, it was also his colleagues and nurses. The NHS is a proud institution and has proud people working in it looking after us under severe time pressures. They deserve the best pay and conditions!! I now work at a University and today it was announced that the average pay for a University Vice-Chancellor is circa £250k with some earning a lot more, something wrong here. A final point...... the Junior Dr's can decide to leave under these new rules....but they don't have to leave the UK they can go and work in Scotland and Wales who are NOT bringing in what Hunt wants.....the man is adding another nail in the coffin of OUR NHS. Fucking idiot!!
The BBC this am - prior to the news that the new contract was being imposed - were saying that everything had been agreed except the money. Was that true or not? If it was, it implies that the Doctors were not too worried about patient safety as long as the money was okay. Did the Beeb misreport?
Obviously doctors don't worry about patient safety - they're only in it for the money. Fortunately it's not an important job like a banker or an MP. It doesn't matter if Jeremy alienates the medical profession - we can just import some doctors from the Third World or perhaps dispense with medical training altogether to save costs. If only doctors and nurses had the high morals of journalists,MPs, bankers etc
The BBC this am - prior to the news that the new contract was being imposed - were saying that everything had been agreed except the money. Was that true or not? If it was, it implies that the Doctors were not too worried about patient safety as long as the money was okay. Did the Beeb misreport?
They reported the Government spin. This is just one tiny part of the reform and it is the part they choose to make public as they know it is the thing that their own supporters and others that can't be bothered to read what the issue is really about will jump on.
Working in the NHS is certainly not a financial choice for the vast majority.
They go through five years at university subsidised by the government Come out of uni and start on a pretty decent wage If good enough they are in a position to earn quite a lot at a later date
Then they decide they don't like the hours because it is detrimental to patients' health so cancel 4000 operations so they can strike.
eh?
It's not just about the hours. Get your face out of the Daily Mail. They want to reduce. That's reduce the maximum hours a doctor can work from 91 to 72 hours per week. This while asking the same number of doctors to cover the change to a seamless 24/7 NHS. They will not cope.
The starting pay for a doctor is just 26k in one of if not the most important and stressful jobs on the planet.
Troll off
Reduced to 72 hours. They got a result there. Nearly twice as much as me for nearly half the amount of pay. But with a colossal amount of knowledge, training, dedication and responsibility. We'd all better stay healthy in the future because the NHS isn't going to get any better than it is now, it might even take a turn for the worse once the brightest and the best decide to take their skills elsewhere. But reforms were in Hunts parties manifesto so I can only presume, the country as a whole, is happy with this.
They go through five years at university subsidised by the government Come out of uni and start on a pretty decent wage If good enough they are in a position to earn quite a lot at a later date
Then they decide they don't like the hours because it is detrimental to patients' health so cancel 4000 operations so they can strike.
eh?
It's not just about the hours. Get your face out of the Daily Mail. They want to reduce. That's reduce the maximum hours a doctor can work from 91 to 72 hours per week. This while asking the same number of doctors to cover the change to a seamless 24/7 NHS. They will not cope.
The starting pay for a doctor is just 26k in one of if not the most important and stressful jobs on the planet.
Troll off
Reduced to 72 hours. They got a result there. Nearly twice as much as me for nearly half the amount of pay. But with a colossal amount of knowledge, training, dedication and responsibility. We'd all better stay healthy in the future because the NHS isn't going to get any better than it is now, it might even take a turn for the worse once the brightest and the best decide to take their skills elsewhere. But reforms were in Hunts parties manifesto so I can only presume, the country as a whole, is happy with this.
I don't think some of the electorate have really thought this through - I despair for the future of healthcare in this country. Seeing how bad things are in the States for a large part of the population really worries me given we are going down the same path.
Hunt and his cronies don't give a toss as they'll use private healthcare and no doubt get jobs and backhanders from healthcare providers.
If you're rich or never fall ill you'll be fine....
That'll be the George that is out-doing Gordon with his latest wheeze of demanding that local government pension funds invest at least 25% of their £210BN funds in government infrastructure programmes.
Sod whether they're viable and sod the fact that these are funded pensions (workers own money, not the tax-payer paid ones for police and armed services).
Hunt is untenable in this job...he can't negotiate with anyone as no one trusts him or believes a word that comes out of his mouth.
Wait...I'm beginning to understand how we have ended up with a NHS call centre!!
He may or may not be a good constituency MP but given his potentially compromised interests in the privatisation of the health service he should be nowhere near the Cabinet.
I won't revisit the Lewisham hospital issue beyond noting he wanted a within budget hospital in a Labour voting area to bail out overspending hospitals in Tory voting areas, and to do this services to local Lewisham people would've been closed down. He even tried to appeal his defeat. But. The country voted this lot in, so they can do what they like, similar to Roland.
That'll be the George that is out-doing Gordon with his latest wheeze of demanding that local government pension funds invest at least 25% of their £210BN funds in government infrastructure programmes.
Sod whether they're viable and sod the fact that these are funded pensions!
So you would rather give your money to a fund manager who takes a nice cut while it loses 10% being speculated on market movements.
Why didn't local government pension managers provide the capital for PFI projects (infrastructure investment) thats giving the institutional investors a guaranteed return above inflation for the next 49 years.
Instead of the taxpayer funding profits of the banks and construction companies they would fund your pension, reduce NHS costs and reduce government borrowing.
I guess Osborne is doing it because people who think like you are in charge of managing your pension fund and can't work it out for themselves.
Private pension funds can't find enough infrastructure projects to invest in so would be happy if the dummies running LGPS continue to do so with their heads up their arse and your support.
That'll be the George that is out-doing Gordon with his latest wheeze of demanding that local government pension funds invest at least 25% of their £210BN funds in government infrastructure programmes.
Sod whether they're viable and sod the fact that these are funded pensions!
So you would rather give your money to a fund manager who takes a nice cut while it loses 10% being speculated on market movements.
Why didn't local government pension managers provide the capital for PFI projects (infrastructure investment) thats giving the institutional investors a guaranteed return above inflation for the next 49 years.
Instead of the taxpayer funding profits of the banks and construction companies they would fund your pension, reduce NHS costs and reduce government borrowing.
I guess Osborne is doing it because people who think like you are in charge of managing your pension fund and can't work it out for themselves.
Private pension funds can't find enough infrastructure projects to invest in so would be happy if the dummies running LGPS continue to do so with their heads up their arse and your support.
The difference is that fund managers have a duty to try and get a return on your pension fund. It doesn't always work, but they have the flexibility to move funds and do what they can to get the best returns. That may sometimes be in government infrastructure programmes, but they aren't all money spinners are they @Dippenhall ?
You are now asking them to bet on what will work from the planning stage, with no guarantee and you are forcing them to hold 25% of the fund - approx £52BN - in these projects.
It isn't the government's money and it shouldn't be possible for them to demand you invest in what they want. They're giving no guaranteed returns on this.
I don't think many of the posters on this thread have bothered to find out the facts of the docs grieviences, most are just quoting the press that pertains to their own political leanings! Sad really.
I don't think many of the posters on this thread have bothered to find out the facts of the docs grieviences, most are just quoting the press that pertains to their own political leanings! Sad really.
Maybe your thoughts are correct but that could be your political leanings and your interpretation of the dispute. Which isn't sad just your opinion like other have theirs.
We spend a fortune to train them! Which they pay for themselves. My son has graduated this year (not in medicine mind) with debts just shy of £43,000 after three years in University.
I don't think many of the posters on this thread have bothered to find out the facts of the docs grieviences, most are just quoting the press that pertains to their own political leanings! Sad really.
Sounds like you think what he has done is right, probably makes you a hunt too
I thought their main grievance was that they were going to be forced to include Saturday working in their normal working week (1 week in 4) instead of as overtime.
The payment for agreeing to this was going to be quite a bit less than the overtime they currently get.
@Bournemouth Addick Could you warn me when you are going to put a page up from the Daily Bile, particularly at the beginning of the day. I almost had to flag you.
As I see it we haven't got enough staff to work the hours that hospitals are already committed to working so rather than solve that crisis we mask it with another. It is a bit like Charlton needing a new championship level centre half but then going out and making ridiculous offers for international strikers who don't want to come here. All smoke and effing mirrors.
@Bournemouth Addick Could you warn me when you are going to put a page up from the Daily Bile, particularly at the beginning of the day. I almost had to flag you.
As I see it we haven't got enough staff to work the hours that hospitals are already committed to working so rather than solve that crisis we mask it with another. It is a bit like Charlton needing a new championship level centre half but then going out and making ridiculous offers for international strikers who don't want to come here. All smoke and effing mirrors.
Apologies for that. On the plus side you'll be relieved to know that they have at least established that Posh does indeed have a right arm and hopefully, given enough time, they can track down her left hand too. Poor girl.
@Bournemouth Addick Could you warn me when you are going to put a page up from the Daily Bile, particularly at the beginning of the day. I almost had to flag you.
As I see it we haven't got enough staff to work the hours that hospitals are already committed to working so rather than solve that crisis we mask it with another. It is a bit like Charlton needing a new championship level centre half but then going out and making ridiculous offers for international strikers who don't want to come here. All smoke and effing mirrors.
Apologies for that. On the plus side you'll be relieved to know that they have at least established that Posh does indeed have a right arm and hopefully, given enough time, they can track down her left hand too. Poor girl.
I suppose the Posh story puts their journalistic integrity into some perspective.
The government and the regime are starting to merge for me. I don't necessarily disagree with what they say but do utterly disagree with their plans/actions for how to make what they say work.
I don't think many of the posters on this thread have bothered to find out the facts of the docs grieviences, most are just quoting the press that pertains to their own political leanings! Sad really.
Sounds like you think what he has done is right, probably makes you a hunt too
Oh dear oh dear, a tough guy calling someone names on the internet, wow I'm impressed. I bet you can do loads of push ups. However, if you had a basic understanding of English then you would have noticed that my comment was positioned within this debate firmly on the fence. Furthermore, just so you can understand my position/opinion on this matter and having read and spoken to some JD's about the contract, they will be out of pocket if you take into account the hours worked against what they will be paid post contact implementation. Jeremy Hunt will be the death of the NHS IMHO, and as such is beyond contempt. I hope this clear it all up for you now.
Comments
A final point...... the Junior Dr's can decide to leave under these new rules....but they don't have to leave the UK they can go and work in Scotland and Wales who are NOT bringing in what Hunt wants.....the man is adding another nail in the coffin of OUR NHS. Fucking idiot!!
It doesn't matter if Jeremy alienates the medical profession - we can just import some doctors from the Third World or perhaps dispense with medical training altogether to save costs.
If only doctors and nurses had the high morals of journalists,MPs, bankers etc
Working in the NHS is certainly not a financial choice for the vast majority.
Nearly twice as much as me for nearly half the amount of pay.
But with a colossal amount of knowledge, training, dedication and responsibility.
We'd all better stay healthy in the future because the NHS isn't going to get any better than it is now, it might even take a turn for the worse once the brightest and the best decide to take their skills elsewhere.
But reforms were in Hunts parties manifesto so I can only presume, the country as a whole, is happy with this.
Hunt and his cronies don't give a toss as they'll use private healthcare and no doubt get jobs and backhanders from healthcare providers.
If you're rich or never fall ill you'll be fine....
Sod whether they're viable and sod the fact that these are funded pensions (workers own money, not the tax-payer paid ones for police and armed services).
Hunt is untenable in this job...he can't negotiate with anyone as no one trusts him or believes a word that comes out of his mouth.
Wait...I'm beginning to understand how we have ended up with a NHS call centre!!
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/10/10/revealed-at-last-the-hunt-bottomley-link/
He may or may not be a good constituency MP but given his potentially compromised interests in the privatisation of the health service he should be nowhere near the Cabinet.
He even tried to appeal his defeat.
But.
The country voted this lot in, so they can do what they like, similar to Roland.
Why didn't local government pension managers provide the capital for PFI projects (infrastructure investment) thats giving the institutional investors a guaranteed return above inflation for the next 49 years.
Instead of the taxpayer funding profits of the banks and construction companies they would fund your pension, reduce NHS costs and reduce government borrowing.
I guess Osborne is doing it because people who think like you are in charge of managing your pension fund and can't work it out for themselves.
Private pension funds can't find enough infrastructure projects to invest in so would be happy if the dummies running LGPS continue to do so with their heads up their arse and your support.
You are now asking them to bet on what will work from the planning stage, with no guarantee and you are forcing them to hold 25% of the fund - approx £52BN - in these projects.
It isn't the government's money and it shouldn't be possible for them to demand you invest in what they want. They're giving no guaranteed returns on this.
Sad really.
Which isn't sad just your opinion like other have theirs.
...and so the attempt to turn public opinion against junior doctors continues.
Which they pay for themselves.
My son has graduated this year (not in medicine mind) with debts just shy of £43,000 after three years in University.
Sounds like you think what he has done is right, probably makes you a hunt too
The payment for agreeing to this was going to be quite a bit less than the overtime they currently get.
As I see it we haven't got enough staff to work the hours that hospitals are already committed to working so rather than solve that crisis we mask it with another. It is a bit like Charlton needing a new championship level centre half but then going out and making ridiculous offers for international strikers who don't want to come here. All smoke and effing mirrors.
The government and the regime are starting to merge for me. I don't necessarily disagree with what they say but do utterly disagree with their plans/actions for how to make what they say work.
However, if you had a basic understanding of English then you would have noticed that my comment was positioned within this debate firmly on the fence.
Furthermore, just so you can understand my position/opinion on this matter and having read and spoken to some JD's about the contract, they will be out of pocket if you take into account the hours worked against what they will be paid post contact implementation. Jeremy Hunt will be the death of the NHS IMHO, and as such is beyond contempt.
I hope this clear it all up for you now.