Another Shooting In America?
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The big issue in the US, and why it's different in Canada and other high gun ownership countries (I believe Switzerland has the highest percentage as every adult male is required to be part of a militia and own a gun), is the black or white nature of their world view. You hear the retoric from the NSA, gun supporting politicians and many gun owners, and they talk about the solution to "bad guys" with guns in "good guys" with guns. If you follow that line of reasoning then the obvious solution to a killer in a school is to arm the teachers. They are obviously the "good guys" in that situation.
Of course that completely ignores the fact there's not such thing as a good guy or a bad guy, everybody lies somewhere in between some closer to one end or the other, and some who are borderline, who can appear to be a "good guy" and then something happens to push them over the edge. And that is the problem. There is no way to know beforehand who the good and bad guys are. Arming everybody means arming everybody, no matter what their internal motivations, mental stability or agendas.
And of course, once you arm the populace you have to arm the police, and the police want better weapons than those they are policing, so you get police with tanks. And once you arm the police you create the situation where either through no choice (life threatening situation) or through police misconduct/excessive egos/etc, the police become judge, jury and executioner.
That is where America is, until they can discuss gun owners ship in adult terms rather than comic book terms nothing will ever change.12 -
Too true, but until you can ban all guns...Greenie said:
Don't get me wrong mate, I'm all for restricted ownership with more checks than you care to mention, but even with mental illness/stress checks, whose to say that one day everything is fine the next day or week, someone who owns an AK (why do you need to have a friggin AK?) goes bok.Dazzler21 said:It needs to have a mental health suitability test at very least. May not catch em all but surely would catch out some?
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How amusing that Switzerland, notorious for using wars for profit and always keeping their heads down, require everyone to be part of the militia.0
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So the two options are either gun control or more guns? It seems the US gets more resolutely pro gun after each shooting.
I don't really see where this will end. Presumably you'll end up arming toddlers?0 -
The gun lobby is very powerful. It won't change.0
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Gawd, what a sick bunch. And they let these people have guns!ValleyGary said:
Wow he's not alone in being a wrongenBigRedEvil said:Apparently this was the shooter warning people prior webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OZGEjT1ilSUJ:https://archive.moe/r9k/post/22785729/
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probably how they've kept independent, the fact that EVERYONE will be up in the mountains sniping at the invaders .. shades of Serbia and Afghanistan .. also of course is the fact that Switzerland has historically been a nice refuge for dictators, despots, thieves, and secret policemen alike to stash their ill gotten cash .. no questions askedAlgarveaddick said:How amusing that Switzerland, notorious for using wars for profit and always keeping their heads down, require everyone to be part of the militia.
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There's also the old adage that a country with a standing army will always be at war, you don't want all those soldiers bored at home!
That's why the Swiss have a militia, because they don't have a standing army.0 -
I think I read somewhere that the Swiss have the highest rate of gun suicide in the world....It must be all that Cheese.Lincsaddick said:
probably how they've kept independent, the fact that EVERYONE will be up in the mountains sniping at the invaders .. shades of Serbia and Afghanistan .. also of course is the fact that Switzerland has historically been a nice refuge for dictators, despots, thieves, and secret policemen alike to stash their ill gotten cash .. no questions askedAlgarveaddick said:How amusing that Switzerland, notorious for using wars for profit and always keeping their heads down, require everyone to be part of the militia.
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"We need guns to protect us from people with guns!" (hand over face)0
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The sad thing is that that is the logic in use too often.BR7_addick said:"We need guns to protect us from people with guns!" (hand over face)
They use similar logic about cars - "I need to drive a tank so the other tank driving idiots can't kill me"0 -
We need trident as the bad guys have nuclear weapons.....2
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FTFYGreenie said:
I think I read somewhere that the Swiss have the highest rate of gun suicide in the world....It must be allLincsaddick said:
probably how they've kept independent, the fact that EVERYONE will be up in the mountains sniping at the invaders .. shades of Serbia and Afghanistan .. also of course is the fact that Switzerland has historically been a nice refuge for dictators, despots, thieves, and secret policemen alike to stash their ill gotten cash .. no questions askedAlgarveaddick said:How amusing that Switzerland, notorious for using wars for profit and always keeping their heads down, require everyone to be part of the militia.
that Cheesethose guns.
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Changing the laws will not change anything.0
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Ok, changing the laws will not stop these shootings.0
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The 301 million guns in circulation in America.0
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People who wish to commit illegal acts will do so no matter what laws are in place. Guns will always be available to those who want to commit a crime such as this, and they choose their targets where they can do the most damage. This campus was a "no gun zone", with no armed security. He was stopped as soon as another gun arrived, about eight minutes after he started shooting.
He apparently was shooting people who identified themselves as Christians, and reports are saying that he admired the perpetrators of previous shootings. It's time to consider how these incidents are reported.0 -
Assuming that there's just as many people in the UK who want to commit such acts, why don't we have as many mass shootings?
Is it because guns aren't available as easily?
Or is it because there aren't as many people in the UK who want to commit such acts? And if there isn't - why not? What in America makes more people (as a % per 100,000 people) want to do them?0 -
I don't know, you tell me.0
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Please tell us you're not going to espouse the "if the teachers/security staff/caretaker/Willy the groundskeeper were armed" point of view. Adding fuel to the fire is really not the answer.limeygent said:People who wish to commit illegal acts will do so no matter what laws are in place. Guns will always be available to those who want to commit a crime such as this, and they choose their targets where they can do the most damage. This campus was a "no gun zone", with no armed security. He was stopped as soon as another gun arrived, about eight minutes after he started shooting.
He apparently was shooting people who identified themselves as Christians, and reports are saying that he admired the perpetrators of previous shootings. It's time to consider how these incidents are reported.
I'm also not sure what your point about the reporting is? I can't speak for over there but the way these sprees are reported here hardly makes heroes of the perpetrators.0 -
So what are YOU saying? That if one of the victims had had a gun, or if the security people had been armed, the outcome couldn't have been different?Bournemouth Addick said:
Please tell us you're not going to espouse the "if the teachers/security staff/caretaker/Willy the groundskeeper were armed" point of view. Adding fuel to the fire is really not the answer.limeygent said:People who wish to commit illegal acts will do so no matter what laws are in place. Guns will always be available to those who want to commit a crime such as this, and they choose their targets where they can do the most damage. This campus was a "no gun zone", with no armed security. He was stopped as soon as another gun arrived, about eight minutes after he started shooting.
He apparently was shooting people who identified themselves as Christians, and reports are saying that he admired the perpetrators of previous shootings. It's time to consider how these incidents are reported.
I'm also not sure what your point about the reporting is? I can't speak for over there but the way these sprees are reported here hardly makes heroes of the perpetrators.0 -
But who would have stopped them if they had had a mental health breakdown last week and wanted to go on a rampage?limeygent said:
So what are YOU saying? That if one of the victims had had a gun, or if the security people had been armed, the outcome couldn't have been different?Bournemouth Addick said:
Please tell us you're not going to espouse the "if the teachers/security staff/caretaker/Willy the groundskeeper were armed" point of view. Adding fuel to the fire is really not the answer.limeygent said:People who wish to commit illegal acts will do so no matter what laws are in place. Guns will always be available to those who want to commit a crime such as this, and they choose their targets where they can do the most damage. This campus was a "no gun zone", with no armed security. He was stopped as soon as another gun arrived, about eight minutes after he started shooting.
He apparently was shooting people who identified themselves as Christians, and reports are saying that he admired the perpetrators of previous shootings. It's time to consider how these incidents are reported.
I'm also not sure what your point about the reporting is? I can't speak for over there but the way these sprees are reported here hardly makes heroes of the perpetrators.0 -
Good grief.limeygent said:
So what are YOU saying? That if one of the victims had had a gun, or if the security people had been armed, the outcome couldn't have been different?Bournemouth Addick said:
Please tell us you're not going to espouse the "if the teachers/security staff/caretaker/Willy the groundskeeper were armed" point of view. Adding fuel to the fire is really not the answer.limeygent said:People who wish to commit illegal acts will do so no matter what laws are in place. Guns will always be available to those who want to commit a crime such as this, and they choose their targets where they can do the most damage. This campus was a "no gun zone", with no armed security. He was stopped as soon as another gun arrived, about eight minutes after he started shooting.
He apparently was shooting people who identified themselves as Christians, and reports are saying that he admired the perpetrators of previous shootings. It's time to consider how these incidents are reported.
I'm also not sure what your point about the reporting is? I can't speak for over there but the way these sprees are reported here hardly makes heroes of the perpetrators.
You don't solve a problem by implementing another problem. Solution is not to arm school kids or their teachers.
Is this really a serious line of thought over there? God bless America ? $#%@€,0 -
I very often want to commit mass murder at work but the fact that i don't have a gun in my glove box, man bag or desk has frustratingly stopped me so far. Perhaps if I move to the USA things will change for me.limeygent said:People who wish to commit illegal acts will do so no matter what laws are in place. Guns will always be available to those who want to commit a crime such as this, and they choose their targets where they can do the most damage. This campus was a "no gun zone", with no armed security. He was stopped as soon as another gun arrived, about eight minutes after he started shooting.
He apparently was shooting people who identified themselves as Christians, and reports are saying that he admired the perpetrators of previous shootings. It's time to consider how these incidents are reported.
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No one is suggesting arming school children, and you know it.0
