UKIP win a seat
Comments
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Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
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Sorry but immigration is not even in my top twenty political concerns.
UKIP whip up fear and anxiety about the EU and anyone from outside of the UK ( and many people born and bred in the UK) and trade in it politically. Their policies would make the right of the Conservative party blush.
Racist, xenophobic and just plain old nasty!
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Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?1 -
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.0 -
Nothing at all ... provided they work and are not living off UK state benefits to which they have not contributed and never will contribute .. I would LOVE to spend a few months living off local state benefits by the Black Sea in Bulgaria or Romania .. would either of those countries support me in my wishes, even temporarily? .. would they F%$*&IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?0 -
Yes and lots of those who come here to work leave again.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.
That's just a load of alarmist rubbish!1 -
Totall agree but benifits tourism really is largely a myth. Not to mention the two million UK ex pats recieving access to benifits and healthcare across the EULincsaddick said:
Nothing at all ... provided they work and are not living off UK state benefits to which they have not contributed and never will contribute .. I would LOVE to spend a few months living off local state benefits by the Black Sea in Bulgaria or Romania .. would either of those countries support me in my wishes, even temporarily? .. would they F%$*&IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?0 -
Think I saw a stat ages ago that 400 people emigrate from the UK every day.
If that's still the case it's 36,000 in the last three months. Obviously not balancing out but still significant in my eyes.0 -
I don't agree with UKIP and wouldn't vote for them if my life depended upon it. They are racist, xenophobic and about every other sort of phobic and ism.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.
Excluding the unworkable policies on the EU and immigration I find the other policies unappealing in the extreme.
The party itself is a mish mash of "closet racists and Looneys" whose former Leader Robert Killroy Silk left them because " they were a load of racist nutters". They still are.
You could write one hundred pages and they would still be racist and xenophobic and represent everything that I loathe in life.1 -
Mate, at the end of the day we are all Charlton supporters and I vowed when I came on here never to get into a row with a fellow Charlton fan.IAgree said:
I don't agree with UKIP and wouldn't vote for them if my life depended upon it. They are racist, xenophobic and about every other sort of phobic and ism.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.
Excluding the unworkable policies on the EU and immigration I find the other policies unappealing in the extreme.
The party itself is a mish mash of "closet racists and Looneys" whose former Leader Robert Killroy Silk left them because " they were a load of racist nutters". They still are.
You could write one hundred pages and they would still be racist and xenophobic and represent everything that I loathe in life.
So I'm just going to say goodnight.6 -
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Fair enough.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Mate, at the end of the day we are all Charlton supporters and I vowed when I came on here never to get into a row with a fellow Charlton fan.IAgree said:
I don't agree with UKIP and wouldn't vote for them if my life depended upon it. They are racist, xenophobic and about every other sort of phobic and ism.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.
Excluding the unworkable policies on the EU and immigration I find the other policies unappealing in the extreme.
The party itself is a mish mash of "closet racists and Looneys" whose former Leader Robert Killroy Silk left them because " they were a load of racist nutters". They still are.
You could write one hundred pages and they would still be racist and xenophobic and represent everything that I loathe in life.
So I'm just going to say goodnight.1 -
Unemployment falling. What's your concern ?Fortune 82nd Minute said:
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.
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An interesting article about benefits access in the EU. This is from October 2013. Compared to the UK there is not much on offer elsewhere without health insurance or work history.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10391238/Benefits-in-Europe-country-by-country.html0 -
So after all this excellent and sensible debate it's back to the same old again. No wonder UKIP are gaining support, it's just too tiresome to try and change opinion.0
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Are you referring to me again are you? I posted that because someone said there are 2 million ex pat Brits taking advantage of Eu benefits. Doesn`t look like there is too much to take advantage of! Who mentioned anything to do with UKIP?0
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The UK EU expats who are not working whilst they are abroad and paying local taxes and deductions, in the majority will receive any benefits and healthcare on a reciprocal basis as they will have paid UK dues for many years. Most will be pensioners drawing UK state pensions. I cannot believe that hundreds of thousands of UK citizens across the EU are living off locally available dole money. You may well believe this to be the case.IAgree said:
Totall agree but benifits tourism really is largely a myth. Not to mention the two million UK ex pats receiving access to benifits and healthcare across the EYLincsaddick said:
Nothing at all ... provided they work and are not living off UK state benefits to which they have not contributed and never will contribute .. I would LOVE to spend a few months living off local state benefits by the Black Sea in Bulgaria or Romania .. would either of those countries support me in my wishes, even temporarily? .. would they F%$*&IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
As for 'benefits tourism' in the UK, I can quote no figures and neither I suspect can you .. However, a contact of mine who works for the DWP tells me that in her area alone, scores of EU citizens (that is non UK citizens) apply for state benefits every week at the various job centres ... I suspect that many get some kind of assistance from the government, especially those who have children with them. This is anecdotal information, but I believe what she says. As I have already stated, fair enough IF the same courtesy were to be extended to UK subjects in the less developed EU states .. you and I know (or at least I do) that this is just not the case.
Did you never see the STATE SPONSORED Czech Republic TV ads encouraging Roma people to come to England where they could get benefits and stop being a burden on the Czech exchequer? Admittedly this was a few years back, but I suspect the theory and philosophy still exists in many of the new EU member states .. 'take our poor and huddled masses you British mugs .. because we do not want them'0 -
E-cafc: Thread title "UKIP win a seat".. :-)0
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Are you not concerned that workers from Poland, Lithuania and the rest of the A8 jumped to 861,000 at the end of June, up 58,000 in three months and up 178,000 year-on-year, the sharpest increase in A8 migration since the boom year of 2007?
Compared with the same period in 2012 the total was up 47 per cent, and 59 per cent on the figure for April to June 2011.
In February a report by the University of Oxford’s Migration Observatory said nearly six out of 10 Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants living in Britain last year claimed they were self-employed, allowing them full access to the welfare state.
I'm concerend. So are a lot of other people.
Call us all racist if you like, but the problem is not going away and you are a certifiable loon if you don't believe it's a problem.
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Do you have a source for that?IAgree said:
Yes and lots of those who come here to work leave again.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.
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My comments are about UKIP as a political party.Addickted said:Are you not concerned that workers from Poland, Lithuania and the rest of the A8 jumped to 861,000 at the end of June, up 58,000 in three months and up 178,000 year-on-year, the sharpest increase in A8 migration since the boom year of 2007?
Compared with the same period in 2012 the total was up 47 per cent, and 59 per cent on the figure for April to June 2011.
In February a report by the University of Oxford’s Migration Observatory said nearly six out of 10 Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants living in Britain last year claimed they were self-employed, allowing them full access to the welfare state.
I'm concerend. So are a lot of other people.
Call us all racist if you like, but the problem is not going away and you are a certifiable loon if you don't believe it's a problem.
Yes I believe there are issues which need to be addressed with regard the EU in many areas and lessons to be learned.
I still don't agree with leaving the EU or UKIPs unworkable immigration policy, or indeed pretty well all of the other policies.
I think UKIP whip up fear and suspicion in people and use it for their own racist ends. That is why they have deliberately sought to pick up former BNP support in the North.
Actually the cost of living, NHS , Education, Tutition fees, defeat of ISIS, the deficit, law and order and constitutional reform are all far higher on my list of priorities and I am not against the free movement of people across the EU at all.
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Okay, no problem!1
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E-cafc said:
Are you referring to me again are you? I posted that because someone said there are 2 million ex pat Brits taking advantage of Eu benefits. Doesn`t look like there is too much to take advantage of! Who mentioned anything to do with UKIP?
So after all this excellent and sensible debate it's back to the same old again. No wonder UKIP are gaining support, it's just too tiresome to try and change opinion.colthe3rd said:So after all this excellent and sensible debate it's back to the same old again. No wonder UKIP are gaining support, it's just too tiresome to try and change opinion.
Not if the top of my head I don't obsess with immigration. However have read a couple of articles which stated that most of the new arrivals fro the EU didn't settle longer term.Addickted said:
Do you have a source for that?IAgree said:
Yes and lots of those who come here to work leave again.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.0 -
IAgree said:E-cafc said:
Are you referring to me again are you? I posted that because someone said there are 2 million ex pat Brits taking advantage of Eu benefits. Doesn`t look like there is too much to take advantage of! Who mentioned anything to do with UKIP?
So after all this excellent and sensible debate it's back to the same old again. No wonder UKIP are gaining support, it's just too tiresome to try and change opinion.colthe3rd said:So after all this excellent and sensible debate it's back to the same old again. No wonder UKIP are gaining support, it's just too tiresome to try and change opinion.
Not if the top of my head I don't obsess with immigration. However have read a couple of articles which stated that most of the new arrivals fro the EU didn't settle longer term.Addickted said:
Do you have a source for that?IAgree said:
Yes and lots of those who come here to work leave again.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.
How about a link to the articles then?
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How about a link to the articles then?Addickted said:IAgree said:E-cafc said:Are you referring to me again are you? I posted that because someone said there are 2 million ex pat Brits taking advantage of Eu benefits. Doesn`t look like there is too much to take advantage of! Who mentioned anything to do with UKIP?
So after all this excellent and sensible debate it's back to the same old again. No wonder UKIP are gaining support, it's just too tiresome to try and change opinion.colthe3rd said:So after all this excellent and sensible debate it's back to the same old again. No wonder UKIP are gaining support, it's just too tiresome to try and change opinion.
Not if the top of my head I don't obsess with immigration. However have read a couple of articles which stated that most of the new arrivals fro the EU didn't settle longer term.Addickted said:
Do you have a source for that?IAgree said:
Yes and lots of those who come here to work leave again.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
23 pages and you ask that question? Time to close the thread.IAgree said:
Your point being??Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Yes but not 187,000 of them have left this country in the last 3 months.IAgree said:
And two million ex pat British people live in the EU!Addickted said:Office for National Statistics says migrants from Bulgaria and Romania topped 150,000 in the second quarter of this year, up by 13,000, as overall EU migration jumps by 187,000 in just three months.
What is wrong with people from the EU living in Britain?
But to answer your point briefly if 187,000 people come to this country every 3 months, in 5 years time that will be an extra 3,740,00 people to be housed, found jobs, provide medical services for etc.
About a million people live in Birmingham. So we need to build a city 3 times the size of Birmingham to accommodate new arrivals if they carry on arriving at the same rate.
Get a life.
I read them over the last couple of years I don't know a link!
Search google or Athens if you are so interested!
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Good stuff .. the thing with UKIP is that for the first time in my memory, there is a party that is expressing the fears and opinions that MANY British people hold and it is a party not of the establishment, i.e. ToryLabLibDem nor of the extreme i.e. BNPNatFrontGreenSocWorkers, but essentially a party of the middle, albeit to the right of the middle.IAgree said:
My comments are about UKIP as a political party.Addickted said:Are you not concerned that workers from Poland, Lithuania and the rest of the A8 jumped to 861,000 at the end of June, up 58,000 in three months and up 178,000 year-on-year, the sharpest increase in A8 migration since the boom year of 2007?
Compared with the same period in 2012 the total was up 47 per cent, and 59 per cent on the figure for April to June 2011.
In February a report by the University of Oxford’s Migration Observatory said nearly six out of 10 Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants living in Britain last year claimed they were self-employed, allowing them full access to the welfare state.
I'm concerend. So are a lot of other people.
Call us all racist if you like, but the problem is not going away and you are a certifiable loon if you don't believe it's a problem.
Yes I believe there are issues which need to be addressed with regard the EU in many areas and lessons to be learned.
' ministerial post
I still don't agree with leaving the EU or UKIPs unworkable immigration policy, or indeed pretty well all of the other policies.
I think UKIP whip up fear and suspicion in people and use it for their own racist ends. That is why they have deliberately sought to pick up former BNP support in the North.
Actually the cost of living, NHS , Education, Tutition fees, defeat of ISIS, the deficit, law and order and constitutional reform are all far higher on my list of priorities and I am not against the free movement of people across the EU at all.
However, I do NOT agree that UKIP is racist. Racist is hating people simply because of their colour and/or ethnicity. This is just not the same as nationalist, which UKIP undoubtedly is, which means standing up for people of a given NATIONALITY, irrespective of race, colour or creed.
The thing is, UKIP will NEVER be the party of government, it will remain a party of dissent and annoyance to the mainstream stuffed shirts and bandwagon jumping MPs who always toe the party line in order to secure a decent salary and possibly a well paid and 'influential' ministerial post. I will be VERY surprised if UKIP ever gets more than about a dozen seats in parliament.
On the other hand .. IF the ToryLabLibDem wonks don't wake up to the fact that there is a large albeit as yet immature movement amongst English/British people seriously questioning EU membership, lack of opportunity for the young, foreign aid payments, lack of immigration controls, unemployment, perceived poverty, unwanted globalisation , and if said parties continue to ignore this ever developing groundswell of public opinion, then we could end up with a party or parties which are FAR worse and more extreme than Old Nigel's likely lads2 -
I am not concerned one iota - allow me to explain why:Addickted said:Are you not concerned that workers from Poland, Lithuania and the rest of the A8 jumped to 861,000 at the end of June, up 58,000 in three months and up 178,000 year-on-year, the sharpest increase in A8 migration since the boom year of 2007?
Compared with the same period in 2012 the total was up 47 per cent, and 59 per cent on the figure for April to June 2011.
In February a report by the University of Oxford’s Migration Observatory said nearly six out of 10 Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants living in Britain last year claimed they were self-employed, allowing them full access to the welfare state.
I'm concerend. So are a lot of other people.
Call us all racist if you like, but the problem is not going away and you are a certifiable loon if you don't believe it's a problem.
1) people who travel across the whole of Europe to earn more tend to be dynamic individuals who will take up opportunities left up for grabs as well making start up ventures
2) it's not 27m as quoted by Farage this time last year...impossible to extrapolate five years numbers from a couple of quarters as one poster higher up did...that would be like stating the precise points total for CAFC next May as opposed to a range
3) benefits are not really that high and not a reason for a sane individual to come here...pensions are far more expensive for the government and guess what, immigrants may well return home when they retire to cheaper places
4) In my own experience the most effective work places have been multi cultural with a balance of the sexes, nationality and ages. The least effective have been 99% English with older workers counting the years until early retirement.
5) the stats quoted are contradictory and do not show the benefit claim percentage.
6) it looks like real issue is whether one should be able to claim benefits without NI contributions - that applies to UK claimants much more than so called tourists - I'm sure it's possible to restrict benefit access without discriminating nor using eastern Europeans as scapegoats
Basically this is all a smokescreen to cover the fact that the overall recovery from recession has only been enjoyed by the richest. The real earnings vs cost of living for the vast majority of working people has not improved and there are many reasons for this. Immigration is not a material one.
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Message for IAgree
If you had read the 23 pages of this thread you would have noticed that for the most part the debate has been civilised and intelligent. Do you not see that resorting to labelling everyone who might disagree with you as racist, xenophobic and a string of other insults is counter productive to getting your point of view across? Why not concentrate on explaining why you think that immigration is not an issue that impacts on things like education, the NHS, housing and infrastructure thus assisting those of us who may not have a dogmatic view one way or the other to better understand a reasoned argument against UKIP?
I think you will find that the name-calling last resort is counterproductive and by the way it was done about 20 pages ago.9 -
I am stating a widely held opinion that UKIP as a political party is racist and xenophobic.Bryan_Kynsie said:Message for IAgree
If you had read the 23 pages of this thread you would have noticed that for the most part the debate has been civilised and intelligent. Do you not see that resorting to labelling everyone who might disagree with you as racist, xenophobic and a string of other insults is counter productive to getting your point of view across? Why not concentrate on explaining why you think that immigration is not an issue that impacts on things like education, the NHS, housing and infrastructure thus assisting those of us who may not have a dogmatic view one way or the other to better understand a reasoned argument against UKIP?
I think you will find that the name-calling last resort is counterproductive and by the way it was done about 20 pages ago.
Where is the name calling? Where are the " string of insults?"
Why not actually read my posts , including the link to a very good New Statemam article on UKIP.
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