Millwall is a different kind of rivalry. A lot of us have good friends and family that are Millwall. For me, I’m always desperate to beat them and I don’t mind them doing reasonably well, as long as they never get promoted or win anything.
With Palace, I’ve never met a proper one and if they went out of business tomorrow or were relegated to the depths of non-league I’d be celebrating.
Exactly how I see it. We’re like one big SE London family. But like a lot of families there’s a rough side , and a more refined side. I’ll let you guess who is who. 😆
palace are like the obnoxious and jarring posh family from the suburbs who when they turn up at the big family wedding everyone groans and try’s to avoid.
You’re one of the ones that understands there’s a rivalry, I don’t have an issue whatsoever with Millwall fans tweeting about us, I expect it. It’s just the whole we don’t care about Charlton and then tweeting, bizarre.
Of course there’s a rivalry. You’re our closest geographical neighbours. Obviously it’s not as intense as other rivalries, but I put that down to a lot of shared family connections and of course there used to be a lot of fans from both clubs who would regularly visit both grounds, regardless of what side they supported, just to get a fix of football. My dad loved Millwall but rarely went to away games. So when Millwall was away he would go to either the valley or one of the local non league sides just to watch some football.
I think a lot of it depends on where you’re from as well. Millwall fans from shared areas like Eltham, Sidcup, Welling etc would have more of a rivalry with Charlton. Those from Bromley and the surrounding areas would hate palace the most, and for the inner city lot from Bermondsey, Rotherhithe etc it’s only west ham.
Maybe that’s what it is. You think you’re hearing Millwall fans saying they don’t give a shit about Charlton and then actually giving a shit, but what you’re actually hearing is different opinions from different Millwall fans. We’re not all the same. We don’t all like and dislike the same teams. There will be some who dislike Charlton, and some who are indifferent. We all hate west ham though 😉
I never thought of it like this and it’s actually a very good post
My X timeline is absolutely full of Millwall fans tonight posting about their hatred for Nathan and dislike of us and our fanbase. This coming from a fanbase who will constantly tell us we don’t matter to them.
Weird bunch.
Millwall record attendance at home game 20,093 at the Den FACup home to Arsenal 1994. Two home games on the trot in League one in May 2025 we show them for the smaller club they are.
You do know our ground only holds 20k?? But actually nearer 18k now a days, give or take, because of restrictions?
Whenever we’ve made it to a play off semi tickets always sell out and could probably sell an extra 5k if the seats were there, so we’re not a million miles behind you on on that front.
If we carry on the trajectory we’re on the club will have to fill the corners in at The Den, then we could compete with Charlton for those bigger attendances.
I must be one of the best qualified Charlton fans to talk about this.
My mum is a Millwall fan. All my maternal uncles and cousins are Millwall fans. My maternal grandad is a Millwall fan. My great grandad worked at the docks and was a Millwall fan when they reached two FA Cup Semi-Finals and earnt their nickname 'Lions of the South' by beating the mighty Aston Villa team of the late Victorian era. My other half is a Millwall fan.
My dad is a Charlton fan.
I was taken to The Valley first. But have been to many Millwall games over the years.
Millwall fans do not 'hate' Charlton. They see it as their biggest local derby. Because it is. I have been to Millwall Charlton games at The Den in the home end. It is that kind of derby. There was no hate. Just a desire to beat us. I can say that, because I have been along to Millwall v West Ham, Leeds, Birmingham City, Chelsea and Everton games. That was hate filled. I have even been to Millwall v Palace and that isn't seen as big as a local derby as us, it does have more spite to it than our games. Maybe because it more a dockers/proper SE London club v a fake south London, suburban club. Whereas Millwall v Charlton is an actual SE London derby proper. Most of us know Millwall fans, be they family, mates neighbours or work colleagues.
I don't think any of the Millwall fans I personally know ever say it is not a rivalry. They enjoy the rivalry. Why wouldn't they? They hardly ever lose it. In my entire life (45 years) they have only lost to us three times in the league. I was at Selhurst Park when they tonked us 3-0 in first top flight derby match between the two and they treated it as a nice day out, as pretty most of the ground was Millwall fans. But if you go to a Millwall Charlton match as a Charlton fan expecting the infamous Millwall hostility, you will be sadly let down. They just don't see us that way. I've been to normal league games between Millwall and Stoke, Cardiff or Portsmouth, and it is a feistier atmosphere than our games, as both sets of hooligans are out.
Another thing I will say about my Millwall fans is they are not like Palace fans at all. They really do not give a stuff whether we have a bigger ground or have played more top flight football at all. They genuinely do not care about those things. One thing they do care about is us winning the FA Cup. I am often reminded that Millwall are the best giant killers in FA Cup history. This is actual an official fact. No other club has knocked out more higher placed opponents than them. This includes champions of England, FA Cup holders etc. It kills them that they have never won it, despite such a good record for a lower league club (5 Semi Finals & one Final).
I have the same feelings towards them that they do towards us, probably cos I live with them. Ie I really, really want to beat them for bragging rights. But there is no hate. But it is a big local derby. And they would agree.
My X timeline is absolutely full of Millwall fans tonight posting about their hatred for Nathan and dislike of us and our fanbase. This coming from a fanbase who will constantly tell us we don’t matter to them.
Weird bunch.
Millwall record attendance at home game 20,093 at the Den FACup home to Arsenal 1994. Two home games on the trot in League one in May 2025 we show them for the smaller club they are.
You do know our ground only holds 20k?? But actually nearer 18k now a days, give or take, because of restrictions?
Whenever we’ve made it to a play off semi tickets always sell out and could probably sell an extra 5k if the seats were there, so we’re not a million miles behind you on on that front.
If we carry on the trajectory we’re on the club will have to fill the corners in at The Den, then we could compete with Charlton for those bigger attendances.
Millwall is a different kind of rivalry. A lot of us have good friends and family that are Millwall. For me, I’m always desperate to beat them and I don’t mind them doing reasonably well, as long as they never get promoted or win anything.
With Palace, I’ve never met a proper one and if they went out of business tomorrow or were relegated to the depths of non-league I’d be celebrating.
Agreed. All that South London is ours rubbish. We all know there are only two original South London clubs:
The Old Den was the biggest asset in my view for hundreds of reasons related to atmosphere and authenticity. It might even be true to say that modern Millwall fans are a tribute act to the original Millwall fans of old. However in the world of authenticity Millwall are miles ahead of Crystal Palace, a club for whom the word plastic could’ve been invented. Nothing they ever do can compensate for Selhurst Park or Croydon. As for West Ham, well they have outdone any perceived betrayal Millwall might have visited on their fans, by leaving the lovely Upton Park for the insipid experience of the people-owned Olympic Stadium…now that’s a betrayal. And as Charlton fans we know all about ground change betrayal, we’re experts on it, which is why The Valley is so important to us and why we fought so hard for it.
Same as Woodwork, with my Mum, Dad, Aunts and Uncles coming from Bermondsey and I was taken to the Den until i was 10 and on occasions to CAFC as my Dad also had a soft spot for the train spotters.
When the flare was thrown from the Charlton end in the 2-1*defeat (Solly red card game) very close to the ball boy it wasn't so friendly for a while.
I would say it was an excellent summary by Millwall fan at 7.57 AM of the social history and demographics between Millwall and Charlton but I don't want his head to swell or his cloth cap won't fit.
*May have been the 3-1 defeat the following season but sure it was the year we had the upper and lower stand before the goal.
The Old Den was the biggest asset in my view for hundreds of reasons related to atmosphere and authenticity. It might even be true to say that modern Millwall fans are a tribute act to the original Millwall fans of old. However in the world of authenticity Millwall are miles ahead of Crystal Palace, a club for whom the word plastic could’ve been invented. Nothing they ever do can compensate for Selhurst Park or Croydon. As for West Ham, well they have outdone any perceived betrayal Millwall might have visited on their fans, by leaving the lovely Upton Park for the insipid experience of the people-owned Olympic Stadium…now that’s a betrayal. And as Charlton fans we know all about ground change betrayal, we’re experts on it, which is why The Valley is so important to us and why we fought so hard for it.
As far as new grounds go, the ‘new’ Den is a close to an old school ground you can get really. Functional & no thrills. Four distinct sides, so no bowl. Looks like an Eastern bloc ground. It’s close to pitch and is steep, so creates a good & ‘up close’ atmosphere .
They had to leave the Old Den, as the cost to bring it up to standard post Taylor report would have been huge. And tbf, they only lost one league game in the first 18 months at the new ground, so obviously the fans play an important part in that hostile environment. I’ve to some really spicy atmospheres at that new ground & can even remember a game where Joe Royle saying he was glad his Man City side didn’t get a winner, as he didn’t think they’d get out of the place alive!
West Ham really sold out their heritage, I agree. I loved Upton Park. An amazing ground imo.
I must be one of the best qualified Charlton fans to talk about this.
My mum is a Millwall fan. All my maternal uncles and cousins are Millwall fans. My maternal grandad is a Millwall fan. My great grandad worked at the docks and was a Millwall fan when they reached two FA Cup Semi-Finals and earnt their nickname 'Lions of the South' by beating the mighty Aston Villa team of the late Victorian era. My other half is a Millwall fan.
My dad is a Charlton fan.
I was taken to The Valley first. But have been to many Millwall games over the years.
Millwall fans do not 'hate' Charlton. They see it as their biggest local derby. Because it is. I have been to Millwall Charlton games at The Den in the home end. It is that kind of derby. There was no hate. Just a desire to beat us. I can say that, because I have been along to Millwall v West Ham, Leeds, Birmingham City, Chelsea and Everton games. That was hate filled. I have even been to Millwall v Palace and that isn't seen as big as a local derby as us, it does have more spite to it than our games. Maybe because it more a dockers/proper SE London club v a fake south London, suburban club. Whereas Millwall v Charlton is an actual SE London derby proper. Most of us know Millwall fans, be they family, mates neighbours or work colleagues.
I don't think any of the Millwall fans I personally know ever say it is not a rivalry. They enjoy the rivalry. Why wouldn't they? They hardly ever lose it. In my entire life (45 years) they have only lost to us three times in the league. I was at Selhurst Park when they tonked us 3-0 in first top flight derby match between the two and they treated it as a nice day out, as pretty most of the ground was Millwall fans. But if you go to a Millwall Charlton match as a Charlton fan expecting the infamous Millwall hostility, you will be sadly let down. They just don't see us that way. I've been to normal league games between Millwall and Stoke, Cardiff or Portsmouth, and it is a feistier atmosphere than our games, as both sets of hooligans are out.
Another thing I will say about my Millwall fans is they are not like Palace fans at all. They really do not give a stuff whether we have a bigger ground or have played more top flight football at all. They genuinely do not care about those things. One thing they do care about is us winning the FA Cup. I am often reminded that Millwall are the best giant killers in FA Cup history. This is actual an official fact. No other club has knocked out more higher placed opponents than them. This includes champions of England, FA Cup holders etc. It kills them that they have never won it, despite such a good record for a lower league club (5 Semi Finals & one Final).
I have the same feelings towards them that they do towards us, probably cos I live with them. Ie I really, really want to beat them for bragging rights. But there is no hate. But it is a big local derby. And they would agree.
Spot on. Although I’m not sure it ‘kills us’ that we haven’t won the FA cup, it would still be nice if we did lol. But as you say we have a good pedigree in the competition. (Also the first ever third tier team to make the semi final).
You’re spot on about us not giving a stuff about attendances, ground sizes, Premier League etc. Some fans of other clubs, including plenty of your fans, seem obsessed with being portrayed as a big club to other fans. We couldn’t give a monkeys and most of us actually revel in the fact that we punch above our weight. Biggest small club in the world and all that.
I actually know of Milllwall fans who wouldn’t want us to play in the PL and certainly wouldn’t want the ground expanded as they feel it would dilute the support. That’s not my personal opinion but plenty of our fans feel that way.
My X timeline is absolutely full of Millwall fans tonight posting about their hatred for Nathan and dislike of us and our fanbase. This coming from a fanbase who will constantly tell us we don’t matter to them.
Weird bunch.
Didn't they have talks with NJ before he came to us about becoming their manager & he turned them down ?
The Old Den was the biggest asset in my view for hundreds of reasons related to atmosphere and authenticity. It might even be true to say that modern Millwall fans are a tribute act to the original Millwall fans of old. However in the world of authenticity Millwall are miles ahead of Crystal Palace, a club for whom the word plastic could’ve been invented. Nothing they ever do can compensate for Selhurst Park or Croydon. As for West Ham, well they have outdone any perceived betrayal Millwall might have visited on their fans, by leaving the lovely Upton Park for the insipid experience of the people-owned Olympic Stadium…now that’s a betrayal. And as Charlton fans we know all about ground change betrayal, we’re experts on it, which is why The Valley is so important to us and why we fought so hard for it.
As far as new grounds go, the ‘new’ Den is a close to an old school ground you can get really. Functional & no thrills. Four distinct sides, so no bowl. Looks like an Eastern bloc ground. It’s close to pitch and is steep, so creates a good & ‘up close’ atmosphere .
They had to leave the Old Den, as the cost to bring it up to standard post Taylor report would have been huge. And tbf, they only lost one league game in the first 18 months at the new ground, so obviously the fans play an important part in that hostile environment. I’ve to some really spicy atmospheres at that new ground & can even remember a game where Joe Royle saying he was glad his Man City side didn’t get a winner, as he didn’t think they’d get out of the place alive!
West Ham really sold out their heritage, I agree. I loved Upton Park. An amazing ground imo.
I can understand the argument about the cost to improve the Old Den, but I honestly believe the very best atmosphere at the new place isn’t as good as the average atmosphere at the old one. Yeah, functional and no frills, but I don’t think that insta design is any good, and nothing like as much fun (yes I did use that word) as it used to be.
I know out attendances can be crap, so can theirs, but Millwall are probably annoyed that they will never have the kind of attendance we mustered yesterday at their Toolbox. Leaving the old proper Den has been the biggest blow to their USP and deep down their long term fans know it.
Yes you’re right. While we’ve been holding our own in the championship for the last 8 years, and for the large part competing at the top end, I haven’t really been able to enjoy it because I lay awake at night thinking about us not being able to get the same sized attendance that Charlton do for rare big occasions 😆
You sure you don’t lay there practicing your Albanian / German / Dutch / Italian / Polish to welcome the thousands of trippers padding your attendance:-)
No idea why we are talking Millwall. Let’s focus on us
The Old Den was the biggest asset in my view for hundreds of reasons related to atmosphere and authenticity. It might even be true to say that modern Millwall fans are a tribute act to the original Millwall fans of old. However in the world of authenticity Millwall are miles ahead of Crystal Palace, a club for whom the word plastic could’ve been invented. Nothing they ever do can compensate for Selhurst Park or Croydon. As for West Ham, well they have outdone any perceived betrayal Millwall might have visited on their fans, by leaving the lovely Upton Park for the insipid experience of the people-owned Olympic Stadium…now that’s a betrayal. And as Charlton fans we know all about ground change betrayal, we’re experts on it, which is why The Valley is so important to us and why we fought so hard for it.
As far as new grounds go, the ‘new’ Den is a close to an old school ground you can get really. Functional & no thrills. Four distinct sides, so no bowl. Looks like an Eastern bloc ground. It’s close to pitch and is steep, so creates a good & ‘up close’ atmosphere .
They had to leave the Old Den, as the cost to bring it up to standard post Taylor report would have been huge. And tbf, they only lost one league game in the first 18 months at the new ground, so obviously the fans play an important part in that hostile environment. I’ve to some really spicy atmospheres at that new ground & can even remember a game where Joe Royle saying he was glad his Man City side didn’t get a winner, as he didn’t think they’d get out of the place alive!
West Ham really sold out their heritage, I agree. I loved Upton Park. An amazing ground imo.
Again, spot on (can tell you’re from Millwall stock Woodwork 😉).
Developing the old Den wasn’t an option. It was too tightly packed in with residential housing. We got the next best thing and only had to move 500 metres the way the crow flies. We carried on drinking in the same pubs, and going to then same train stations, walking the same streets. The club stayed in the heart of its original community. We couldn’t ask for more than that.
The atmosphere there can be fantastic at times as well. As woodwork says it helps not being one of those new bowls.
Millwall is a different kind of rivalry. A lot of us have good friends and family that are Millwall. For me, I’m always desperate to beat them and I don’t mind them doing reasonably well, as long as they never get promoted or win anything.
With Palace, I’ve never met a proper one and if they went out of business tomorrow or were relegated to the depths of non-league I’d be celebrating.
Exactly how I see it. We’re like one big SE London family. But like a lot of families there’s a rough side , and a more refined side. I’ll let you guess who is who. 😆
palace are like the obnoxious and jarring posh family from the suburbs who when they turn up at the big family wedding everyone groans and try’s to avoid.
Strange analogy I know but that’s my take lol
I’m like chat gtp, I can improve posts.
palace are like the family members invited to the evening part only and only when a few people have declined
The Old Den was the biggest asset in my view for hundreds of reasons related to atmosphere and authenticity. It might even be true to say that modern Millwall fans are a tribute act to the original Millwall fans of old. However in the world of authenticity Millwall are miles ahead of Crystal Palace, a club for whom the word plastic could’ve been invented. Nothing they ever do can compensate for Selhurst Park or Croydon. As for West Ham, well they have outdone any perceived betrayal Millwall might have visited on their fans, by leaving the lovely Upton Park for the insipid experience of the people-owned Olympic Stadium…now that’s a betrayal. And as Charlton fans we know all about ground change betrayal, we’re experts on it, which is why The Valley is so important to us and why we fought so hard for it.
As far as new grounds go, the ‘new’ Den is a close to an old school ground you can get really. Functional & no thrills. Four distinct sides, so no bowl. Looks like an Eastern bloc ground. It’s close to pitch and is steep, so creates a good & ‘up close’ atmosphere .
They had to leave the Old Den, as the cost to bring it up to standard post Taylor report would have been huge. And tbf, they only lost one league game in the first 18 months at the new ground, so obviously the fans play an important part in that hostile environment. I’ve to some really spicy atmospheres at that new ground & can even remember a game where Joe Royle saying he was glad his Man City side didn’t get a winner, as he didn’t think they’d get out of the place alive!
West Ham really sold out their heritage, I agree. I loved Upton Park. An amazing ground imo.
I can understand the argument about the cost to improve the Old Den, but I honestly believe the very best atmosphere at the new place isn’t as good as the average atmosphere at the old one. Yeah, functional and no frills, but I don’t think that insta design is any good, and nothing like as much fun (yes I did use that word) as it used to be.
Not true. Yes the atmosphere at the old place was unique, mental and unbelievable a lot of the time. But people look back with rose tinted glasses. There was times when there was a few thousand rattling around in there, or when we were playing dead rubbers, and it was rubbish. And I’m saying that as someone who loved the old place and was bought up on those terraces.
We’ve had some absolutely electric (and very hostile) days in the new place and when all three home stands get going in unison it can give me goosebumps. When we played Huddersfield in the play off semis a few years back, that was as good an atmosphere as I’ve ever experienced, old or new. We could see the Huddersfield team literally melt before our eyes. Michael Calvin, the revered sports journalist who followed us around that season said the only atmosphere he could compare it to was when he witnessed Rangers win the title at Celtic Park.
My X timeline is absolutely full of Millwall fans tonight posting about their hatred for Nathan and dislike of us and our fanbase. This coming from a fanbase who will constantly tell us we don’t matter to them.
Weird bunch.
Didn't they have talks with NJ before he came to us about becoming their manager & he turned them down ?
They turned him down, as he was seen as a loose cannon and also wanted complete control over transfers. Plus a release clause.
My X timeline is absolutely full of Millwall fans tonight posting about their hatred for Nathan and dislike of us and our fanbase. This coming from a fanbase who will constantly tell us we don’t matter to them.
Weird bunch.
Didn't they have talks with NJ before he came to us about becoming their manager & he turned them down ?
They turned him down, as he was seen as a loose cannon and also wanted complete control over transfers. Plus a release clause.
Charlton first approached Jones in September after they had sacked Dean Holden, but he was not ready to return to management then following a nightmare spell at Southampton.
I must be one of the best qualified Charlton fans to talk about this.
My mum is a Millwall fan. All my maternal uncles and cousins are Millwall fans. My maternal grandad is a Millwall fan. My great grandad worked at the docks and was a Millwall fan when they reached two FA Cup Semi-Finals and earnt their nickname 'Lions of the South' by beating the mighty Aston Villa team of the late Victorian era. My other half is a Millwall fan.
My dad is a Charlton fan.
I was taken to The Valley first. But have been to many Millwall games over the years.
Millwall fans do not 'hate' Charlton. They see it as their biggest local derby. Because it is. I have been to Millwall Charlton games at The Den in the home end. It is that kind of derby. There was no hate. Just a desire to beat us. I can say that, because I have been along to Millwall v West Ham, Leeds, Birmingham City, Chelsea and Everton games. That was hate filled. I have even been to Millwall v Palace and that isn't seen as big as a local derby as us, it does have more spite to it than our games. Maybe because it more a dockers/proper SE London club v a fake south London, suburban club. Whereas Millwall v Charlton is an actual SE London derby proper. Most of us know Millwall fans, be they family, mates neighbours or work colleagues.
I don't think any of the Millwall fans I personally know ever say it is not a rivalry. They enjoy the rivalry. Why wouldn't they? They hardly ever lose it. In my entire life (45 years) they have only lost to us three times in the league. I was at Selhurst Park when they tonked us 3-0 in first top flight derby match between the two and they treated it as a nice day out, as pretty most of the ground was Millwall fans. But if you go to a Millwall Charlton match as a Charlton fan expecting the infamous Millwall hostility, you will be sadly let down. They just don't see us that way. I've been to normal league games between Millwall and Stoke, Cardiff or Portsmouth, and it is a feistier atmosphere than our games, as both sets of hooligans are out.
Another thing I will say about my Millwall fans is they are not like Palace fans at all. They really do not give a stuff whether we have a bigger ground or have played more top flight football at all. They genuinely do not care about those things. One thing they do care about is us winning the FA Cup. I am often reminded that Millwall are the best giant killers in FA Cup history. This is actual an official fact. No other club has knocked out more higher placed opponents than them. This includes champions of England, FA Cup holders etc. It kills them that they have never won it, despite such a good record for a lower league club (5 Semi Finals & one Final).
I have the same feelings towards them that they do towards us, probably cos I live with them. Ie I really, really want to beat them for bragging rights. But there is no hate. But it is a big local derby. And they would agree.
As a 45 year old you probably haven't 'experienced' millwall. Talk to 70 year old addicks and you'll find out why some really do hate them.
If the size of the crowd in the stadium is the criteria for best supporters then 70k,+ Man united and their thousand of pawn sandwich watchers must be top; of course their not. Great noise can be made by just a few thousand and big clubs like Man utd and Arsenal and yes even Liverpool can go really quiet as it's more the quality of passion shown than the quantity in the ground.
I must be one of the best qualified Charlton fans to talk about this.
My mum is a Millwall fan. All my maternal uncles and cousins are Millwall fans. My maternal grandad is a Millwall fan. My great grandad worked at the docks and was a Millwall fan when they reached two FA Cup Semi-Finals and earnt their nickname 'Lions of the South' by beating the mighty Aston Villa team of the late Victorian era. My other half is a Millwall fan.
My dad is a Charlton fan.
I was taken to The Valley first. But have been to many Millwall games over the years.
Millwall fans do not 'hate' Charlton. They see it as their biggest local derby. Because it is. I have been to Millwall Charlton games at The Den in the home end. It is that kind of derby. There was no hate. Just a desire to beat us. I can say that, because I have been along to Millwall v West Ham, Leeds, Birmingham City, Chelsea and Everton games. That was hate filled. I have even been to Millwall v Palace and that isn't seen as big as a local derby as us, it does have more spite to it than our games. Maybe because it more a dockers/proper SE London club v a fake south London, suburban club. Whereas Millwall v Charlton is an actual SE London derby proper. Most of us know Millwall fans, be they family, mates neighbours or work colleagues.
I don't think any of the Millwall fans I personally know ever say it is not a rivalry. They enjoy the rivalry. Why wouldn't they? They hardly ever lose it. In my entire life (45 years) they have only lost to us three times in the league. I was at Selhurst Park when they tonked us 3-0 in first top flight derby match between the two and they treated it as a nice day out, as pretty most of the ground was Millwall fans. But if you go to a Millwall Charlton match as a Charlton fan expecting the infamous Millwall hostility, you will be sadly let down. They just don't see us that way. I've been to normal league games between Millwall and Stoke, Cardiff or Portsmouth, and it is a feistier atmosphere than our games, as both sets of hooligans are out.
Another thing I will say about my Millwall fans is they are not like Palace fans at all. They really do not give a stuff whether we have a bigger ground or have played more top flight football at all. They genuinely do not care about those things. One thing they do care about is us winning the FA Cup. I am often reminded that Millwall are the best giant killers in FA Cup history. This is actual an official fact. No other club has knocked out more higher placed opponents than them. This includes champions of England, FA Cup holders etc. It kills them that they have never won it, despite such a good record for a lower league club (5 Semi Finals & one Final).
I have the same feelings towards them that they do towards us, probably cos I live with them. Ie I really, really want to beat them for bragging rights. But there is no hate. But it is a big local derby. And they would agree.
As a 45 year old you probably haven't 'experienced' millwall. Talk to 70 year old addicks and you'll find out why some really do hate them.
If the size of the crowd in the stadium is the criteria for best supporters then 70k,+ Man united and their thousand of pawn sandwich watchers must be top; of course their not. Great noise can be made by just a few thousand and big clubs like Man utd and Arsenal and yes even Liverpool can go really quiet as it's more the quality than the quantity in the ground.
I must be one of the best qualified Charlton fans to talk about this.
My mum is a Millwall fan. All my maternal uncles and cousins are Millwall fans. My maternal grandad is a Millwall fan. My great grandad worked at the docks and was a Millwall fan when they reached two FA Cup Semi-Finals and earnt their nickname 'Lions of the South' by beating the mighty Aston Villa team of the late Victorian era. My other half is a Millwall fan.
My dad is a Charlton fan.
I was taken to The Valley first. But have been to many Millwall games over the years.
Millwall fans do not 'hate' Charlton. They see it as their biggest local derby. Because it is. I have been to Millwall Charlton games at The Den in the home end. It is that kind of derby. There was no hate. Just a desire to beat us. I can say that, because I have been along to Millwall v West Ham, Leeds, Birmingham City, Chelsea and Everton games. That was hate filled. I have even been to Millwall v Palace and that isn't seen as big as a local derby as us, it does have more spite to it than our games. Maybe because it more a dockers/proper SE London club v a fake south London, suburban club. Whereas Millwall v Charlton is an actual SE London derby proper. Most of us know Millwall fans, be they family, mates neighbours or work colleagues.
I don't think any of the Millwall fans I personally know ever say it is not a rivalry. They enjoy the rivalry. Why wouldn't they? They hardly ever lose it. In my entire life (45 years) they have only lost to us three times in the league. I was at Selhurst Park when they tonked us 3-0 in first top flight derby match between the two and they treated it as a nice day out, as pretty most of the ground was Millwall fans. But if you go to a Millwall Charlton match as a Charlton fan expecting the infamous Millwall hostility, you will be sadly let down. They just don't see us that way. I've been to normal league games between Millwall and Stoke, Cardiff or Portsmouth, and it is a feistier atmosphere than our games, as both sets of hooligans are out.
Another thing I will say about my Millwall fans is they are not like Palace fans at all. They really do not give a stuff whether we have a bigger ground or have played more top flight football at all. They genuinely do not care about those things. One thing they do care about is us winning the FA Cup. I am often reminded that Millwall are the best giant killers in FA Cup history. This is actual an official fact. No other club has knocked out more higher placed opponents than them. This includes champions of England, FA Cup holders etc. It kills them that they have never won it, despite such a good record for a lower league club (5 Semi Finals & one Final).
I have the same feelings towards them that they do towards us, probably cos I live with them. Ie I really, really want to beat them for bragging rights. But there is no hate. But it is a big local derby. And they would agree.
As a 45 year old you probably haven't 'experienced' millwall. Talk to 70 year old addicks and you'll find out why some really do hate them.
But again, that wouldn't be Charlton specific, would it. They gave everyone a kick in. And from what I hear from family, West Ham, Chelsea, Portsmouth, Cardiff, Spurs etc at the Old Den or away was a different level to Charlton at home or away back in the 1970s. Whatever people think of them now, back then they really did earn their reputation and would have most likely seen us and Palace as small fry. Can you imagine Millwall of the 1970s really going after Palace? It would have been a blood bath.
So I guess some Charlton from that period hate them for being c***. But they were c*** to everyone.
Not true. Yes the atmosphere at the old place was unique, mental and unbelievable a lot of the time. But people look back with rose tinted glasses. There was times when there was a few thousand rattling around in there, or when we were playing dead rubbers, and it was rubbish. And I’m saying that as someone who loved the old place and was bought up on those terraces.
We’ve had some absolutely electric (and very hostile) days in the new place and when all three home stands get going in unison it can give me goosebumps. When we played Huddersfield in the play off semis a few years back, that was as good an atmosphere as I’ve ever experienced, old or new. We could see the Huddersfield team literally melt before our eyes. Michael Calvin, the revered sports journalist who followed us around that season said the only atmosphere he could compare it to was when he witnessed Rangers win the title at Celtic Park.
I went to that Friday night Championship game v Wolves when Millwall were going for the play-offs. Did you go? That was very hostile. It appeared on that BBC Hooligan documentary, because the Wolves 'firm' had to call the police to save them from being murdered! The documentary shows them on coaches and mini-buses sheepishly entering the ground under escort, looking like they knew they had bitten off way more than they could chew. Dave Jones, the Wolves manager got so much abuse, he looked like he was going to have a break down. My work mate came along too, he was a bit of a ground hopper who supported Southend United, and said it was like going back to the 1970s, because as he was walking to ground he saw Millwall come flying out of the pub to attack the Wolves hooligan coaches and mini-buses (that appear on docu). Said it was like something out of Lord of the Rings. Hence they had to call for help. When Steve Claridge (I think) scored that late penalty I thought the roof was going to come off! And was just a league match, important yeah, but not do or die or anything.
Not true. Yes the atmosphere at the old place was unique, mental and unbelievable a lot of the time. But people look back with rose tinted glasses. There was times when there was a few thousand rattling around in there, or when we were playing dead rubbers, and it was rubbish. And I’m saying that as someone who loved the old place and was bought up on those terraces.
We’ve had some absolutely electric (and very hostile) days in the new place and when all three home stands get going in unison it can give me goosebumps. When we played Huddersfield in the play off semis a few years back, that was as good an atmosphere as I’ve ever experienced, old or new. We could see the Huddersfield team literally melt before our eyes. Michael Calvin, the revered sports journalist who followed us around that season said the only atmosphere he could compare it to was when he witnessed Rangers win the title at Celtic Park.
I went to that Friday night Championship game v Wolves when Millwall were going for the play-offs. Did you go? That was very hostile. It appeared on that BBC Hooligan documentary, because the Wolves 'firm' had to call the police to save them from being murdered! The documentary shows them on coaches and mini-buses sheepishly entering the ground under escort, looking like they knew they had bitten off way more than they could chew. Dave Jones, the Wolves manager got so much abuse, he looked like he was going to have a break down. My work mate came along too, he was a bit of a ground hopper who supported Southend United, and said it was like going back to the 1970s, because as he was walking to ground he saw Millwall come flying out of the pub to attack the Wolves hooligan coaches and mini-buses (that appear on docu). Said it was like something out of Lord of the Rings. Hence they had to call for help. When Steve Claridge (I think) scored that late penalty I thought the roof was going to come off! And was just a league match, important yeah, but not do or die or anything.
I missed it. I was away at the time. And before anyone say, no not Belmarsh…
You’d think they’d be happy if we went up, usually a guaranteed six points for them in their minds. Mind you, I’m not sure this team we have now under jones would roll over as easy. Maybe that’s the reason. 🤷♂️
Watching those two legs I’m not sure we’d have too much to worry about. Unless you invested in a whole new team over the summer. Heard we might be in for Small though. He would be a good addition to our squad. None of your other players would get in to our team.
Still commenting on a Charlton forum? Weird
Only on a Millwall related thread. Said when I first signed up on this board many years ago, you get some of the best Millwall analysis on here
I must be one of the best qualified Charlton fans to talk about this.
My mum is a Millwall fan. All my maternal uncles and cousins are Millwall fans. My maternal grandad is a Millwall fan. My great grandad worked at the docks and was a Millwall fan when they reached two FA Cup Semi-Finals and earnt their nickname 'Lions of the South' by beating the mighty Aston Villa team of the late Victorian era. My other half is a Millwall fan.
My dad is a Charlton fan.
I was taken to The Valley first. But have been to many Millwall games over the years.
Millwall fans do not 'hate' Charlton. They see it as their biggest local derby. Because it is. I have been to Millwall Charlton games at The Den in the home end. It is that kind of derby. There was no hate. Just a desire to beat us. I can say that, because I have been along to Millwall v West Ham, Leeds, Birmingham City, Chelsea and Everton games. That was hate filled. I have even been to Millwall v Palace and that isn't seen as big as a local derby as us, it does have more spite to it than our games. Maybe because it more a dockers/proper SE London club v a fake south London, suburban club. Whereas Millwall v Charlton is an actual SE London derby proper. Most of us know Millwall fans, be they family, mates neighbours or work colleagues.
I don't think any of the Millwall fans I personally know ever say it is not a rivalry. They enjoy the rivalry. Why wouldn't they? They hardly ever lose it. In my entire life (45 years) they have only lost to us three times in the league. I was at Selhurst Park when they tonked us 3-0 in first top flight derby match between the two and they treated it as a nice day out, as pretty most of the ground was Millwall fans. But if you go to a Millwall Charlton match as a Charlton fan expecting the infamous Millwall hostility, you will be sadly let down. They just don't see us that way. I've been to normal league games between Millwall and Stoke, Cardiff or Portsmouth, and it is a feistier atmosphere than our games, as both sets of hooligans are out.
Another thing I will say about my Millwall fans is they are not like Palace fans at all. They really do not give a stuff whether we have a bigger ground or have played more top flight football at all. They genuinely do not care about those things. One thing they do care about is us winning the FA Cup. I am often reminded that Millwall are the best giant killers in FA Cup history. This is actual an official fact. No other club has knocked out more higher placed opponents than them. This includes champions of England, FA Cup holders etc. It kills them that they have never won it, despite such a good record for a lower league club (5 Semi Finals & one Final).
I have the same feelings towards them that they do towards us, probably cos I live with them. Ie I really, really want to beat them for bragging rights. But there is no hate. But it is a big local derby. And they would agree.
As a 45 year old you probably haven't 'experienced' millwall. Talk to 70 year old addicks and you'll find out why some really do hate them.
It’s 2025 mate, you really need to move on 😆
Indeed but i think your presence today has proved the op's point. Within 30 minutes of him posting at 6.14 you were on it. Obsessed 😉
Millwall is a different kind of rivalry. A lot of us have good friends and family that are Millwall. For me, I’m always desperate to beat them and I don’t mind them doing reasonably well, as long as they never get promoted or win anything.
With Palace, I’ve never met a proper one and if they went out of business tomorrow or were relegated to the depths of non-league I’d be celebrating.
Exactly how I see it. We’re like one big SE London family. But like a lot of families there’s a rough side , and a more refined side. I’ll let you guess who is who. 😆
palace are like the obnoxious and jarring posh family from the suburbs who when they turn up at the big family wedding everyone groans and try’s to avoid.
Strange analogy I know but that’s my take lol
That's spot on. I don't even have a palace acquaintance. They are all naturally miserable odd creatures
Just one bloke who seems OK. Only met him a few months ago.
He's in his 60s and has narcolepsy (randomly always falls asleep on any given occasion)
His mates put words into his mouth when he wakes up and reminds him to casually say "sorry, I'm a nacropheliac" when in public places. Usually to groups of women.
I was in stitches when 1st heard of it. Couldn't breathe
I know out attendances can be crap, so can theirs, but Millwall are probably annoyed that they will never have the kind of attendance we mustered yesterday at their Toolbox. Leaving the old proper Den has been the biggest blow to their USP and deep down their long term fans know it.
Yes you’re right. While we’ve been holding our own in the championship for the last 8 years, and for the large part competing at the top end, I haven’t really been able to enjoy it because I lay awake at night thinking about us not being able to get the same sized attendance that Charlton do for rare big occasions 😆
You sure you don’t lay there practicing your Albanian / German / Dutch / Italian / Polish to welcome the thousands of trippers padding your attendance:-)
No idea why we are talking Millwall. Let’s focus on us
coz we're having a bit of success the millwall fans on here are trying to tell us how hard they are all over again - if it makes them happy...
Comments
palace are like the obnoxious and jarring posh family from the suburbs who when they turn up at the big family wedding everyone groans and try’s to avoid.
My mum is a Millwall fan. All my maternal uncles and cousins are Millwall fans. My maternal grandad is a Millwall fan. My great grandad worked at the docks and was a Millwall fan when they reached two FA Cup Semi-Finals and earnt their nickname 'Lions of the South' by beating the mighty Aston Villa team of the late Victorian era. My other half is a Millwall fan.
My dad is a Charlton fan.
I was taken to The Valley first. But have been to many Millwall games over the years.
Millwall fans do not 'hate' Charlton. They see it as their biggest local derby. Because it is. I have been to Millwall Charlton games at The Den in the home end. It is that kind of derby. There was no hate. Just a desire to beat us. I can say that, because I have been along to Millwall v West Ham, Leeds, Birmingham City, Chelsea and Everton games. That was hate filled. I have even been to Millwall v Palace and that isn't seen as big as a local derby as us, it does have more spite to it than our games. Maybe because it more a dockers/proper SE London club v a fake south London, suburban club. Whereas Millwall v Charlton is an actual SE London derby proper. Most of us know Millwall fans, be they family, mates neighbours or work colleagues.
I don't think any of the Millwall fans I personally know ever say it is not a rivalry. They enjoy the rivalry. Why wouldn't they? They hardly ever lose it. In my entire life (45 years) they have only lost to us three times in the league. I was at Selhurst Park when they tonked us 3-0 in first top flight derby match between the two and they treated it as a nice day out, as pretty most of the ground was Millwall fans. But if you go to a Millwall Charlton match as a Charlton fan expecting the infamous Millwall hostility, you will be sadly let down. They just don't see us that way. I've been to normal league games between Millwall and Stoke, Cardiff or Portsmouth, and it is a feistier atmosphere than our games, as both sets of hooligans are out.
Another thing I will say about my Millwall fans is they are not like Palace fans at all. They really do not give a stuff whether we have a bigger ground or have played more top flight football at all. They genuinely do not care about those things. One thing they do care about is us winning the FA Cup. I am often reminded that Millwall are the best giant killers in FA Cup history. This is actual an official fact. No other club has knocked out more higher placed opponents than them. This includes champions of England, FA Cup holders etc. It kills them that they have never won it, despite such a good record for a lower league club (5 Semi Finals & one Final).
I have the same feelings towards them that they do towards us, probably cos I live with them. Ie I really, really want to beat them for bragging rights. But there is no hate. But it is a big local derby. And they would agree.
https://southwarknews.co.uk/area/bermondsey/heres-what-south-bermondsey-could-look-like-after-its-1-9-billion-redevelopment/
Charlton and Arsenal
It might even be true to say that modern Millwall fans are a tribute act to the original Millwall fans of old.
However in the world of authenticity Millwall are miles ahead of Crystal Palace, a club for whom the word plastic could’ve been invented. Nothing they ever do can compensate for Selhurst Park or Croydon.
As for West Ham, well they have outdone any perceived betrayal Millwall might have visited on their fans, by leaving the lovely Upton Park for the insipid experience of the people-owned Olympic Stadium…now that’s a betrayal. And as Charlton fans we know all about ground change betrayal, we’re experts on it, which is why The Valley is so important to us and why we fought so hard for it.
When the flare was thrown from the Charlton end in the 2-1*defeat (Solly red card game) very close to the ball boy it wasn't so friendly for a while.
I would say it was an excellent summary by Millwall fan at 7.57 AM of the social history and demographics between Millwall and Charlton but I don't want his head to swell or his cloth cap won't fit.
*May have been the 3-1 defeat the following season but sure it was the year we had the upper and lower stand before the goal.
Yeah, functional and no frills, but I don’t think that insta design is any good, and nothing like as much fun (yes I did use that word) as it used to be.
No idea why we are talking Millwall. Let’s focus on us
palace are like the family members invited to the evening part only and only when a few people have declined
Charlton first approached Jones in September after they had sacked Dean Holden, but he was not ready to return to management then following a nightmare spell at Southampton.
Great noise can be made by just a few thousand and big clubs like Man utd and Arsenal and yes even Liverpool can go really quiet as it's more the quality of passion shown than the quantity in the ground.
So I guess some Charlton from that period hate them for being c***. But they were c*** to everyone.
parkhurst 😉
😉
That's spot on. I don't even have a palace acquaintance. They are all naturally miserable odd creatures
Just one bloke who seems OK. Only met him a few months ago.
He's in his 60s and has narcolepsy (randomly always falls asleep on any given occasion)
His mates put words into his mouth when he wakes up and reminds him to casually say "sorry, I'm a nacropheliac" when in public places. Usually to groups of women.
I was in stitches when 1st heard of it. Couldn't breathe