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School Uniforms / Formal Wear

The Prince-e-PaulThe Prince-e-Paul
edited January 8 in Not Sports Related
There is debate in the news about school uniforms and the costs, and there is argument that it is essential. 

As someone who never wore a school uniform, having attended from 76-88 (it wasn't required), I question the need for a uniform and in particular logo items. If the debate is about uniformity, isn't trousers and shirt (white, blue, grey etc) enough (my girls wore trousers).

 I've worked in professional roles for around 35 years and even when asked by management, I've never worn a tie. I've only ever bought a suit to get married. I even refused to wear an NHS issue uniform, when introduced, as it looked like a prison suit. 

I went into my bank SEB (Sweden) to open an account last year and the bank manager was wearing jeans, trainers and a smart t-shirt, not a logo or tie in sight. This is a far cry from my dad having to wear a suit and tie during his own career as a bank manager at Midlands Bank / HSBC, which he absolutely hated, and has almost never worn one in the 30 years since retiring, only now for weddings and funerals.

Is formal wear when it isn't a formal occasion really necessary? 
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Comments

  • AlgarveaddickAlgarveaddick
    Not necessary, but scruffy is the dress of choice for 90% of the people now, even in situations where smart clothing would once have been de rigueur. So let them get on with it. I prefer smart, but that's just personal choice.    
  • Todds_right_hookTodds_right_hook
    Probably not but there is a stigma. I wouldn’t like to see a bank manager not wearing a suit. But why, the answer is just because.

    i think school uniforms differentiate learning and down time.
  • northstandstevenorthstandsteve
    lot's of jobs will be lost from the school uniform shops  and embroiders if this get's pushed through, in the past it was so everyone looked the same and you couldn't tell the wealth side of families apart. Times have changed I suppose but this will have a wider impact.
  • AlgarveaddickAlgarveaddick
    northstandsteve said:
    lot's of jobs will be lost from the school uniform shops  and embroiders if this get's pushed through, in the past it was so everyone looked the same and you couldn't tell the wealth side of families apart. Times have changed I suppose but this will have a wider impact.
    You could always tell though... 
  • northstandstevenorthstandsteve
    yes I agree, but this will impact my business hugely but heyho that's life
  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    edited January 8
    I dont like how you can usually only buy the official School Uniform from one shop.

    Of course, can just get things like shirts and trousers from the likes of Sainsburys / Asda etc.

    But I can only purchase my Son's jumper... bookbag.. hoodie (if he wants one)... tie from a single shop in Chatham, with a single jumper alone costing around £20, its blue with the school logo on it, with no options to purchase elsewhere.

    I think there are good reasons / values for wearing Uniform at School - Especially if you go on to do a job which requires a Uniform in the workplace, Offices dont seem to be so strict on you being suited and booted these days, but working on Railways etc. needing PPE for example.

    But think it could be made easier for parents.
  • northstandstevenorthstandsteve
    we are not solely schoolwear suppliers but stand alone school shops will be absolutely fucked
  • North Lower NeilNorth Lower Neil
    edited January 8
    northstandsteve said:
    lot's of jobs will be lost from the school uniform shops  and embroiders if this get's pushed through, in the past it was so everyone looked the same and you couldn't tell the wealth side of families apart. Times have changed I suppose but this will have a wider impact.
    Which is good in theory and even now stops half the kids turning up in designer stuff, half not, or kids getting bullied for what their mum sticks them in.  The issue is that with all the embroidered stuff being expensive, it means they are essentially making families who can't really afford the uniform to buy expensive clothes to not stand out as not being able to afford expensive clothes.

    On a personal level I wish they'd done away with it a few years back as my daughter has had a lot of sensory issues over the uniform - the collars on polo shirts, the stiff shirts, the labels etc.  She doesn't want to wear the uniform but even with special dispensation being made, it's an issue as she also doesn't want to not wear it and stand out.  But generally, I just wish they'd do away with the school shop embroidered everything and say you need a white shirt, black trousers/skirt, particular colour jumper ans PE top etc and leave it at that.
  • se9addickse9addick
    I went to Thomas Tallis in Kidbrooke which had a mix of kids from poor and not so poor backgrounds. Having an affordable uniform meant school didn’t become a fashion show every day with the discrepancy in parents (if any) financial status on full show. 

    It doesn’t have to be suits and ties, but having a uniform in secondary school makes sense to me. 

    As for whether my bank manager needs to wear a suit, I would have no idea, haven’t been to a physical bank branch for a decade.
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  • seth plumseth plum
    Schools get commission if they have an exclusive arrangement. I would say that schools are desperate to get money in these days.
    Teachers who have to police appearance are not using that time for teaching.
  • Henry IrvingHenry Irving
    Shout out to Winston Sports in Cray who make the museum's polo shirts and sweatshirts. Excellent quality and value.

    I believe the owner is a Charlton fan and a lifer too!

    As said, the special piping, shirts with logo etc should go. A tie and blazer badge is enough if you want formal.

    But not sure why schools insist on ties when they are becoming rarer and rarer in the business world but fashion evolves like everything else.

    A polo shirt or jumper is much more practical, still smart and still a uniform.

    Uniforms will live on because some parents, especially at fee paying schools, want people to see which school their children go to and want it to be exclusive.
  • Friend Or DefoeFriend Or Defoe
    Algarveaddick said:
    northstandsteve said:
    lot's of jobs will be lost from the school uniform shops  and embroiders if this get's pushed through, in the past it was so everyone looked the same and you couldn't tell the wealth side of families apart. Times have changed I suppose but this will have a wider impact.
    You could always tell though... 
    Especially on photo day where the rich kid would turn up in a blazer. There were also a few kids would were allowed to not wear school uniform and would wear out of fashion tracksuits.

    I went to Darrick Wood which had a uniform that looked like an elephant and pissed then shat all over us. School trips were great with the other schools laughing at us.

    Personally what i wear doesn't dictate how hard i work and the biggest issue with school uniforms is the price. Darrick was also too strict on that front, we had to wear a lab coat for science classes, WTF?
  • seth plumseth plum
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    Our approach as a school is that the blazer, tie and jumper are what are unique to our school. We subsidise the cost so these three items can be purchased for a total cost of around £60. As long as trousers are black it doesn't matter where they are bought from. We allow plain black trainers as part of the uniform so that parents aren't buying a pair of school shoes and trainers for PE. We are very much aware of the cost and do what we can to help but feel a school uniform is important for some of the reasons highlighted on this thread already. The difference in financial stability of our families is marked so it does mean this isn't a glaring daily issue. We are considering not having 'own clothes' days at the end of terms as we know some students really dread having to come to school in non uniform. We have termly sales of returned or unclaimed uniform and more and more families are donating blazers etc when their child leaves the school or they no longer fit. Uniform does bring a sense of identity, belonging and community to a school and I think if students feel they can personalise it a little with badges etc then they are fairly happy to wear it.
    Do you have a method whereby non teachers police the uniform so that teachers can concentrate on trying to teach?
  • sirjohnhumphreysirjohnhumphrey
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    Our approach as a school is that the blazer, tie and jumper are what are unique to our school. We subsidise the cost so these three items can be purchased for a total cost of around £60. As long as trousers are black it doesn't matter where they are bought from. We allow plain black trainers as part of the uniform so that parents aren't buying a pair of school shoes and trainers for PE. We are very much aware of the cost and do what we can to help but feel a school uniform is important for some of the reasons highlighted on this thread already. The difference in financial stability of our families is marked so it does mean this isn't a glaring daily issue. We are considering not having 'own clothes' days at the end of terms as we know some students really dread having to come to school in non uniform. We have termly sales of returned or unclaimed uniform and more and more families are donating blazers etc when their child leaves the school or they no longer fit. Uniform does bring a sense of identity, belonging and community to a school and I think if students feel they can personalise it a little with badges etc then they are fairly happy to wear it.
    Do you have a method whereby non teachers police the uniform so that teachers can concentrate on trying to teach?
    Staff are on duty at the school gate and will check and during form time tutors will check also. To be honest it isn't a big issue - it's the same as the approach to most rules; 90% get it right, 5% attempt to rebel and the others, on occasion, will forget an item or have lost it. 
  • se9addickse9addick
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    Our approach as a school is that the blazer, tie and jumper are what are unique to our school. We subsidise the cost so these three items can be purchased for a total cost of around £60. As long as trousers are black it doesn't matter where they are bought from. We allow plain black trainers as part of the uniform so that parents aren't buying a pair of school shoes and trainers for PE. We are very much aware of the cost and do what we can to help but feel a school uniform is important for some of the reasons highlighted on this thread already. The difference in financial stability of our families is marked so it does mean this isn't a glaring daily issue. We are considering not having 'own clothes' days at the end of terms as we know some students really dread having to come to school in non uniform. We have termly sales of returned or unclaimed uniform and more and more families are donating blazers etc when their child leaves the school or they no longer fit. Uniform does bring a sense of identity, belonging and community to a school and I think if students feel they can personalise it a little with badges etc then they are fairly happy to wear it.
    Do you have a method whereby non teachers police the uniform so that teachers can concentrate on trying to teach?
    Even if you didn’t have a proscribed uniform, you would presumably have some rules on what can and can’t be worn to school? Probably quicker and easier to detect deviations from a uniform policy than detect deviations from a non-uniform policy if your concern is around teacher time being consumed by such matters?
  • seth plumseth plum
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    Our approach as a school is that the blazer, tie and jumper are what are unique to our school. We subsidise the cost so these three items can be purchased for a total cost of around £60. As long as trousers are black it doesn't matter where they are bought from. We allow plain black trainers as part of the uniform so that parents aren't buying a pair of school shoes and trainers for PE. We are very much aware of the cost and do what we can to help but feel a school uniform is important for some of the reasons highlighted on this thread already. The difference in financial stability of our families is marked so it does mean this isn't a glaring daily issue. We are considering not having 'own clothes' days at the end of terms as we know some students really dread having to come to school in non uniform. We have termly sales of returned or unclaimed uniform and more and more families are donating blazers etc when their child leaves the school or they no longer fit. Uniform does bring a sense of identity, belonging and community to a school and I think if students feel they can personalise it a little with badges etc then they are fairly happy to wear it.
    Do you have a method whereby non teachers police the uniform so that teachers can concentrate on trying to teach?
    Staff are on duty at the school gate and will check and during form time tutors will check also. To be honest it isn't a big issue - it's the same as the approach to most rules; 90% get it right, 5% attempt to rebel and the others, on occasion, will forget an item or have lost it. 
    Thank you.

    I have noticed how secondary school students don’t seem to like wearing uniforms. Girls will roll up the waistband of skirts, shirts hanging out, ties awry, a range of footwear. That is before you get to hair and make up.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-fuming-school-sends-smart-33901195

    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/06/boy-punished-school-extreme-haircut-21744859/


    Some recent examples above.

    I have also read how some schools have tried to tackle the ‘problem’ of girls having periods. Neale Wade Academy in March (the place).

    Toilets also seem to be a problem in schools.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g58q59pw5o

    And there is hair.

    https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/girl-10-sent-home-school-9531762#

    What I am interested in is the impact of teaching and learning with all this stuff.
    It is bad enough that the modern curriculum is becoming increasingly irrelevant and has little practical use, without schools as institutions doubling down on control freakery.









  • valleynick66valleynick66
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    Our approach as a school is that the blazer, tie and jumper are what are unique to our school. We subsidise the cost so these three items can be purchased for a total cost of around £60. As long as trousers are black it doesn't matter where they are bought from. We allow plain black trainers as part of the uniform so that parents aren't buying a pair of school shoes and trainers for PE. We are very much aware of the cost and do what we can to help but feel a school uniform is important for some of the reasons highlighted on this thread already. The difference in financial stability of our families is marked so it does mean this isn't a glaring daily issue. We are considering not having 'own clothes' days at the end of terms as we know some students really dread having to come to school in non uniform. We have termly sales of returned or unclaimed uniform and more and more families are donating blazers etc when their child leaves the school or they no longer fit. Uniform does bring a sense of identity, belonging and community to a school and I think if students feel they can personalise it a little with badges etc then they are fairly happy to wear it.
    Do you have a method whereby non teachers police the uniform so that teachers can concentrate on trying to teach?
    Staff are on duty at the school gate and will check and during form time tutors will check also. To be honest it isn't a big issue - it's the same as the approach to most rules; 90% get it right, 5% attempt to rebel and the others, on occasion, will forget an item or have lost it. 
    Thank you.

    I have noticed how secondary school students don’t seem to like wearing uniforms. Girls will roll up the waistband of skirts, shirts hanging out, ties awry, a range of footwear. That is before you get to hair and make up.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-fuming-school-sends-smart-33901195

    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/06/boy-punished-school-extreme-haircut-21744859/


    Some recent examples above.

    I have also read how some schools have tried to tackle the ‘problem’ of girls having periods. Neale Wade Academy in March (the place).

    Toilets also seem to be a problem in schools.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g58q59pw5o

    And there is hair.

    https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/girl-10-sent-home-school-9531762#

    What I am interested in is the impact of teaching and learning with all this stuff.
    It is bad enough that the modern curriculum is becoming increasingly irrelevant and has little practical use, without schools as institutions doubling down on control freakery.









    Uniforms and adherence to it are hardly a new thing. 
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  • seth plumseth plum
    valleynick66 said:
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    Our approach as a school is that the blazer, tie and jumper are what are unique to our school. We subsidise the cost so these three items can be purchased for a total cost of around £60. As long as trousers are black it doesn't matter where they are bought from. We allow plain black trainers as part of the uniform so that parents aren't buying a pair of school shoes and trainers for PE. We are very much aware of the cost and do what we can to help but feel a school uniform is important for some of the reasons highlighted on this thread already. The difference in financial stability of our families is marked so it does mean this isn't a glaring daily issue. We are considering not having 'own clothes' days at the end of terms as we know some students really dread having to come to school in non uniform. We have termly sales of returned or unclaimed uniform and more and more families are donating blazers etc when their child leaves the school or they no longer fit. Uniform does bring a sense of identity, belonging and community to a school and I think if students feel they can personalise it a little with badges etc then they are fairly happy to wear it.
    Do you have a method whereby non teachers police the uniform so that teachers can concentrate on trying to teach?
    Staff are on duty at the school gate and will check and during form time tutors will check also. To be honest it isn't a big issue - it's the same as the approach to most rules; 90% get it right, 5% attempt to rebel and the others, on occasion, will forget an item or have lost it. 
    Thank you.

    I have noticed how secondary school students don’t seem to like wearing uniforms. Girls will roll up the waistband of skirts, shirts hanging out, ties awry, a range of footwear. That is before you get to hair and make up.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-fuming-school-sends-smart-33901195

    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/06/boy-punished-school-extreme-haircut-21744859/


    Some recent examples above.

    I have also read how some schools have tried to tackle the ‘problem’ of girls having periods. Neale Wade Academy in March (the place).

    Toilets also seem to be a problem in schools.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g58q59pw5o

    And there is hair.

    https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/girl-10-sent-home-school-9531762#

    What I am interested in is the impact of teaching and learning with all this stuff.
    It is bad enough that the modern curriculum is becoming increasingly irrelevant and has little practical use, without schools as institutions doubling down on control freakery.









    Uniforms and adherence to it are hardly a new thing. 
    I agree. But ought uniform enforcement be a thing to concern teachers?
    The modern world of technology is a new thing compared to my day of, for example, log books and slide rules. Things change over time in education.
    As long as decency is observed what does it matter what school students look like?
    Why is such a desire to control not in effect in most sixth forms?
  • BaldybonceBaldybonce
    valleynick66 said:
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    Our approach as a school is that the blazer, tie and jumper are what are unique to our school. We subsidise the cost so these three items can be purchased for a total cost of around £60. As long as trousers are black it doesn't matter where they are bought from. We allow plain black trainers as part of the uniform so that parents aren't buying a pair of school shoes and trainers for PE. We are very much aware of the cost and do what we can to help but feel a school uniform is important for some of the reasons highlighted on this thread already. The difference in financial stability of our families is marked so it does mean this isn't a glaring daily issue. We are considering not having 'own clothes' days at the end of terms as we know some students really dread having to come to school in non uniform. We have termly sales of returned or unclaimed uniform and more and more families are donating blazers etc when their child leaves the school or they no longer fit. Uniform does bring a sense of identity, belonging and community to a school and I think if students feel they can personalise it a little with badges etc then they are fairly happy to wear it.
    Do you have a method whereby non teachers police the uniform so that teachers can concentrate on trying to teach?
    Staff are on duty at the school gate and will check and during form time tutors will check also. To be honest it isn't a big issue - it's the same as the approach to most rules; 90% get it right, 5% attempt to rebel and the others, on occasion, will forget an item or have lost it. 
    Thank you.

    I have noticed how secondary school students don’t seem to like wearing uniforms. Girls will roll up the waistband of skirts, shirts hanging out, ties awry, a range of footwear. That is before you get to hair and make up.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-fuming-school-sends-smart-33901195

    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/06/boy-punished-school-extreme-haircut-21744859/


    Some recent examples above.

    I have also read how some schools have tried to tackle the ‘problem’ of girls having periods. Neale Wade Academy in March (the place).

    Toilets also seem to be a problem in schools.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g58q59pw5o

    And there is hair.

    https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/girl-10-sent-home-school-9531762#

    What I am interested in is the impact of teaching and learning with all this stuff.
    It is bad enough that the modern curriculum is becoming increasingly irrelevant and has little practical use, without schools as institutions doubling down on control freakery.









    Uniforms and adherence to it are hardly a new thing. 
    My uniform from the 60s. To be rebellious we'd grow our hair a bit too long.
  • MrOneLungMrOneLung
    A blazer should be plain and you just buy the school badge to put on the pocket.

    Shirts and jumpers should not require logos
  • sirjohnhumphreysirjohnhumphrey
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    seth plum said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    Our approach as a school is that the blazer, tie and jumper are what are unique to our school. We subsidise the cost so these three items can be purchased for a total cost of around £60. As long as trousers are black it doesn't matter where they are bought from. We allow plain black trainers as part of the uniform so that parents aren't buying a pair of school shoes and trainers for PE. We are very much aware of the cost and do what we can to help but feel a school uniform is important for some of the reasons highlighted on this thread already. The difference in financial stability of our families is marked so it does mean this isn't a glaring daily issue. We are considering not having 'own clothes' days at the end of terms as we know some students really dread having to come to school in non uniform. We have termly sales of returned or unclaimed uniform and more and more families are donating blazers etc when their child leaves the school or they no longer fit. Uniform does bring a sense of identity, belonging and community to a school and I think if students feel they can personalise it a little with badges etc then they are fairly happy to wear it.
    Do you have a method whereby non teachers police the uniform so that teachers can concentrate on trying to teach?
    Staff are on duty at the school gate and will check and during form time tutors will check also. To be honest it isn't a big issue - it's the same as the approach to most rules; 90% get it right, 5% attempt to rebel and the others, on occasion, will forget an item or have lost it. 
    Thank you.

    I have noticed how secondary school students don’t seem to like wearing uniforms. Girls will roll up the waistband of skirts, shirts hanging out, ties awry, a range of footwear. That is before you get to hair and make up.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-fuming-school-sends-smart-33901195

    https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/06/boy-punished-school-extreme-haircut-21744859/


    Some recent examples above.

    I have also read how some schools have tried to tackle the ‘problem’ of girls having periods. Neale Wade Academy in March (the place).

    Toilets also seem to be a problem in schools.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g58q59pw5o

    And there is hair.

    https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/girl-10-sent-home-school-9531762#

    What I am interested in is the impact of teaching and learning with all this stuff.
    It is bad enough that the modern curriculum is becoming increasingly irrelevant and has little practical use, without schools as institutions doubling down on control freakery.









    Students not liking uniform isn't new. I remember going to school in the 80s and the girls rolling their skirts up or ties being worn incorrectly. These links highlight some of the issues but they are hardly showing vast numbers. 
  • MrOneLungMrOneLung
    and as for the workplace, I have been working in banking/financial services since 1988 and ties were phased out from around late 90's and not worn a suit for a good 20 years
  • ValleyGaryValleyGary
    edited January 8
    The cost is a fucking joke. My daughter started Bexleyheath Academy in September, think uniform came to about £400. They have to wear a PE skirt with the badge on….60 quid. Then, they had the bollocks to tell us the school is changing its name to Lift Academy in September this year, so we gotta buy it all again with the new logo. How are some families gonna afford that??

    I have a real problem with schools and teachers. 
  • Mendonca In AsdasMendonca In Asdas
    North Lower Neil said:
    Carter said:
    Our school uniform was black trousers, shoes, and black blazer. The badge which my mum would gave to sew onto the blazer cost peanuts and the rank tie the same, they were the only things that were bespoke. And yes it did stop a lot of bullying before it started but even then I realised very early on a pair of kickers or Chelsea boots were essential additions and amazingly a Ben sherman white shirt, which I found out later my dad got a load of from someone down the pub. I had no idea Ben Sherman was a thing when I was 11 but it was alarming in hindsight how many 11 year olds did. 

    The less window you give the arsehole kids of arsehole parents to be pricks to other kids the better, a big part of that is a uniform. I don’t believe they should be weird or bespoke to the point it would be cheaper buying your child a new 3 piece tailored suit every term but a badge and tie, yeah by all means. 

    As I got older the girls modifying their uniform was an ongoing battle between them, teachers and probably parents given how little some of the scummier girls would wear. Me and the boys appreciated the efforts they were making though and so did the local nonces who would pick them up after school as the years progressed in a vauxhall nova with a bass bin. 
    Always think that, looking back - how was 17 years old girls having 25 year old boyfriends etc not considered more weird a few decades ago?!

    Almost seemed like it was an unwritten rule that the really fit girls in your year would have older boyfriends and the rest would be left to slum it with kids their own age.

    Now I'm old, I'd think any earth 20s chav picking up his girlfriend from school (unless she works there) is a massive wrong un.
    Or teachers , going out with the kids.
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