Watched a YouTube video earlier where Lampard discussed some of his Premier League goals.
The presenter mentioned how incredible his shooting and long distance shooting was. Lampard response was interesting, as he said the shot which resulted in a goal would have been practiced hundreds of times on training pitch, until during the game, it was just instinct to shoot when he found himself in particular position on pitch.
Obviously not comparing any of our players with Lampard, but I'd like to know how many of them are spending time on training ground practicing shooting (during sessions or extra practice afterwards).
The aversion to quality loans really grates me - yes, you don't own them and yes, you are developing someone else's player, but a good one can drag terrible into good. I know there can be some real variance there, but surely you would want to give that a try if you could get a player like Cullen/Gallagher/JRS etc.
If what you are buying has ended up being at best lower L1 players, then surely it's an avenue we should be exploring. Or maybe we have burned those bridges already...
Absolutely this. Cullen was here for 2 years and had zero bad games. Many of our permanents since then didnt last that long and have been rubbish.
I really don’t get Jones aversion to such loans. It’s not rational. Sure, some dont work espcially from Man City but if you do the same personality checks on a loan as on a perm you get a Cullen rather than a Tedic.
The aversion to quality loans really grates me - yes, you don't own them and yes, you are developing someone else's player, but a good one can drag terrible into good. I know there can be some real variance there, but surely you would want to give that a try if you could get a player like Cullen/Gallagher/JRS etc.
If what you are buying has ended up being at best lower L1 players, then surely it's an avenue we should be exploring. Or maybe we have burned those bridges already...
We won’t be able to get quality loans with Jones as manager so might as well ignore that entirely. Premier league teams aren’t silly and carefully pick destinations based on style of play. No PL team is going to look at what we’ve been playing and think yeah let’s send one of our most promising players there
The aversion to quality loans really grates me - yes, you don't own them and yes, you are developing someone else's player, but a good one can drag terrible into good. I know there can be some real variance there, but surely you would want to give that a try if you could get a player like Cullen/Gallagher/JRS etc.
If what you are buying has ended up being at best lower L1 players, then surely it's an avenue we should be exploring. Or maybe we have burned those bridges already...
Absolutely this. Cullen was here for 2 years and had zero bad games. Many of our permanents since then didnt last that long and have been rubbish.
I really don’t get Jones aversion to such loans. It’s not rational. Sure, some dont work espcially from Man City but if you do the same personality checks on a loan as on a perm you get a Cullen rather than a Tedic.
I'd challenge that actually. Cullen was really poor when we came back from lockdown. I remember him giving away a very dozy penalty when we were 1-0 up against Brentford and forcing Phillips into giving one away against Birmingham. I have a memory of him being particularly poor in that Brum game. He faded more and more as the games went on until he was basically a passenger at the end. We were short all over but we did miss him asserting himself in the middle during that period. Fantastic player for us overall but a fair few bad games in that run.
I think the January transfer window will be dominated by long, interminable, internal debates about which players are worth signing in the January window, not by how good they are, or how much they might improve the squad, but by how easily we can move them on next Summer, after they have proven to be rubbish.
The aversion to quality loans really grates me - yes, you don't own them and yes, you are developing someone else's player, but a good one can drag terrible into good. I know there can be some real variance there, but surely you would want to give that a try if you could get a player like Cullen/Gallagher/JRS etc.
If what you are buying has ended up being at best lower L1 players, then surely it's an avenue we should be exploring. Or maybe we have burned those bridges already...
We won’t be able to get quality loans with Jones as manager so might as well ignore that entirely. Premier league teams aren’t silly and carefully pick destinations based on style of play. No PL team is going to look at what we’ve been playing and think yeah let’s send one of our most promising players there
This is, imho, very much a disadvantage with having NJ in charge.
I believe that the majority of the footballing world think he's as mad as a box of frogs. Internally, we also know that he absolutely needs full buy-in on everything he says from every player. It's the reason we have so many ex-Luton players (who know this coming in) and why there he has a distaste for loans - and this was visible in the way he used Louie Watson last year. Watson was not in the calibre of the others I mentioned, but he did show glimpses of providing something better, particularly in the final third.
I am absolutely not in the know, but I just get the feeling there has also been occasions where some of the younger players have been dropped by NJ for attitude/effort/discipline/<insert other things> reasons. If you aren't all in with NJ, you aren't playing. Despite being a club that is renown for development of younger players, I feel this is now more limited to pre-first team if they are not our own asset. The fact we avoided loans altogether in the summer for the first time in a long time says a lot about this.
Suffice to say, this all breaks down to an ultimate need of having more players that are comfortable on the ball. The 4 suggested signings needed in Jan (which I agree with in principle and likelihood) need to be better than what we have and bring quality at both the back and the middle of the pitch.
If you ignore the loan opportunities, you better be ready to spend a lot. Sadly, I don't think the board will stomach that for anything less than a playoff finish - making the dropped points recently all the more impactful.
Maybe a few brown envelopes stashed with wads of notes to whoever does the recruitment at Peterborough to give us a nod and wink before they make a move.
They're only 2 points above us after finishing 4th last season so their summer business can't have been that good....
(Albeit I agree with you they normally buy well and sell at the right time).
If we come out of Jan looking closer to the below I'd be happier and feel safer that we can seal the midtable finish.
New – Mannion
Edwards- Small
Ramsay - Watson
Mitchell- Mitchell – Jones – REG – New
Coventry – Taylor – Docherty - Berry- New – New
T Campbell – New
Godden – Leaburn – Ahadme – Aneke - Kanu
5 incoming isn't a massive ask for a Jan window if you ask me.
As for actual names, no idea.
In face of so much negative comment thanks for putting this positive effort together. I can’t say I disagree with your thinking but at the risk of being patronising there are challenges;
1. Reid isn’t in the senior squad 2. 6 are already injured plus 1 recovering from a year out. 3. If you release Gillesphey (under contract 2026) you risk having no LCB 4 No Asiimwe, Anderson, Dixon rips 37% off the SE7 8+8+8 business pipeline 5. We couldn’t find a senior keeper throughout the summer 6. There were no takers for Edun (or Taylor) in the Summer 7. Where’s the evidence of a budget for 5 players, who do you sell to raise the money?
No Prague, Jones is averse to taking loans as a preferred default recruitment. He has taken them in the past and will take them where they can make a difference. Were we not, but for a late intervention from Spain, on the point of securing the Arsenal goalkeeper?
LWatson was released by Luton in August 2024. He is recorded as being without any club since. His non participation under Jones was no doubt influenced by the clubs decision, before Jones arrival, to bring in Coventry, Bakinson, Fiorini and then Jones insistence they not sell Dobson. Not to mention Camara’s brief return from injury.
Jones preference to manage careers in house is hardly unique. This executive has mandated he carry 8. That is on them not him. It is THE pipeline fundamental to their business plan.There is little space to do both. e.g. If you take Barry where do T.Campbell, Kanu, Dixon, Casey, Mbick & Rylah then feature, if at all?
Yeah but Hylton? He has played 19 minutes. A fat lot of development they are going to get in 19 minutes.
How many more inexperienced players do we want to bring into the senior group?Players like Bielik, Cullen, Djikstel, Aribo and Grant all developed because of the senior players around them. Both Bielik and Cullen had struggled in the previous loans.
I very much agree if you invest in the right quality, fitness profiles, flexibility, experience, leadership, game management you can legitimately operate with a senior squad of 18-20 (with academy support). Regrettably such players invariably come with a notable transfer fee and/ or salary to match,
Our Summer closed with - a free transfer from Brighton, 2 veterans on short term contracts and a loan signing
Watched a YouTube video earlier where Lampard discussed some of his Premier League goals.
The presenter mentioned how incredible his shooting and long distance shooting was. Lampard response was interesting, as he said the shot which resulted in a goal would have been practiced hundreds of times on training pitch, until during the game, it was just instinct to shoot when he found himself in particular position on pitch.
Obviously not comparing any of our players with Lampard, but I'd like to know how many of them are spending time on training ground practicing shooting (during sessions or extra practice afterwards).
Don't know who the solutions are but what we don't need are any more players who may have got promoted out of this league 3-4 years ago, living on a past reputation. What we need are players performing in the here and now this season, not someone who's going to need a few months to bed in and adjust to the league. Like when Aaron Collins went to Bolton from Bristol Rovers last year that's the kind of move we need to be making, other teams best players not there cast offs.
Don't know who the solutions are but what we don't need are any more players who may have got promoted out of this league 3-4 years ago, living on a past reputation. What we need are players performing in the here and now this season, not someone who's going to need a few months to bed in and adjust to the league. Like when Aaron Collins went to Bolton from Bristol Rovers last year that's the kind of move we need to be making, other teams best players not there cast offs.
Is it too ridiculous to wonder if Jones last season actually scouted all of our signings made in the summer ? Some have suggested that the players that he wanted we couldn't afford or didn't want to come here, is it possible that frustrated he couldn't bring in the players he had identified as possible signings that he signed some of his old players purely because they did a job for him a few years back. I realise that it sounds bizarre for my suggestion that an experienced manager would possibly sign players that he hadn't scouted recently but would anything surprise us about Jones especially considering how appalling our recruitment was in the summer ?
The trouble is we have, as always, a squad full of average squad players. The ones we bring in need to be the permanent 11 starters and really improve us. To bring in 5 of those in January is relatively unheard of I reckon.
Personally think if we add 3 as first 11 in GK, LCB, and the allusive creative playmaking type then add to our current "best", like sticking Ramsay and Edwards at wing back and then thats a solid top 10 with potential. Make up the other 2 as quality loans.
NEW Mitchell Jones New Ramsay Edwards Coventry Taylor New Leaburn Godden
Then it just comes down to Jones and if he can be arsed to attempt football and show a little faith in his players. Which is probably the bigger ask!
Transfers out are the priority for me. The dross we have signed with a couple of exceptions are pretty crap, and they block the way for youngsters. If we’re going to be crap, let it be our cheaper home grown crap rather than the likes of Docherty, or Berry, or Ahadme or Alan Campbell, or Hylton. How much worse than Berry would Enslin be? I don’t know, but he wouldn’t be costing as much and as Jimmy Hill once famously said ‘not finished, just started’.
Sadly the errors of the last few years will take some time to put right.
We need to move on the following as quickly as we can -
Edun AMB Assimwe Gillesphey Potts Hylton Campbell A Taylor Watson Mannion Small Aneke
While some (Small, Taylor, Mannion, etc) may be considered good enough, that just shows how poor we are in general. We need better! getting rid of all these will free up wages so we can create a decent squad capable of challenging near the top of this division... I doubt it will happen in January, but by the summer we need to lose all of these inadequate players.
Get some wingers in on loan who knows it might make us play a bit of football
We have a ridiculously exciting flair player in Dixon that can't even get a look in. I can't imagine Jones changing his structure in Jan. I really hope i'm wrong.
Sadly the errors of the last few years will take some time to put right.
We need to move on the following as quickly as we can -
Edun AMB Assimwe Gillesphey Potts Hylton Campbell A Taylor Watson Mannion Small Aneke
While some (Small, Taylor, Mannion, etc) may be considered good enough, that just shows how poor we are in general. We need better! getting rid of all these will free up wages so we can create a decent squad capable of challenging near the top of this division... I doubt it will happen in January, but by the summer we need to lose all of these inadequate players.
Getting rid of this lot (bar Small) would be better than any signing we could make. Imperative that we get this dross out of the building.
We’ll unload two or three fringe players to free up some wages and bring in two young PL kids who will rarely make any contribution. If Dixon can’t get a look in I don’t see much hope for anyone we loan. We’ll stumble through the season with enough wins to avoid a relegation scrap, finishing up around 12th and we’ll spend the summer repeating what we’ve said for the last ten seasons about who we should sign, none of whom will materialise. Miles will be sold and we’ll all convince ourselves it’s for the greater good of the squad but it won’t be. I don’t think I’ve ever been as disillusioned with CAFC as I currently am.
Comments
The presenter mentioned how incredible his shooting and long distance shooting was. Lampard response was interesting, as he said the shot which resulted in a goal would have been practiced hundreds of times on training pitch, until during the game, it was just instinct to shoot when he found himself in particular position on pitch.
I believe that the majority of the footballing world think he's as mad as a box of frogs. Internally, we also know that he absolutely needs full buy-in on everything he says from every player. It's the reason we have so many ex-Luton players (who know this coming in) and why there he has a distaste for loans - and this was visible in the way he used Louie Watson last year. Watson was not in the calibre of the others I mentioned, but he did show glimpses of providing something better, particularly in the final third.
I am absolutely not in the know, but I just get the feeling there has also been occasions where some of the younger players have been dropped by NJ for attitude/effort/discipline/<insert other things> reasons. If you aren't all in with NJ, you aren't playing. Despite being a club that is renown for development of younger players, I feel this is now more limited to pre-first team if they are not our own asset. The fact we avoided loans altogether in the summer for the first time in a long time says a lot about this.
Suffice to say, this all breaks down to an ultimate need of having more players that are comfortable on the ball. The 4 suggested signings needed in Jan (which I agree with in principle and likelihood) need to be better than what we have and bring quality at both the back and the middle of the pitch.
If you ignore the loan opportunities, you better be ready to spend a lot. Sadly, I don't think the board will stomach that for anything less than a playoff finish - making the dropped points recently all the more impactful.
(Albeit I agree with you they normally buy well and sell at the right time).
1. Reid isn’t in the senior squad
2. 6 are already injured plus 1 recovering from a year out.
3. If you release Gillesphey (under contract 2026) you risk having no LCB
4 No Asiimwe, Anderson, Dixon rips 37% off the SE7 8+8+8 business pipeline
5. We couldn’t find a senior keeper throughout the summer
6. There were no takers for Edun (or Taylor) in the Summer
7. Where’s the evidence of a budget for 5 players, who do you sell to raise the money?
No Prague, Jones is averse to taking loans as a preferred default recruitment. He has taken them in the past and will take them where they can make a difference. Were we not, but for a late intervention from Spain, on the point of securing the Arsenal goalkeeper?
LWatson was released by Luton in August 2024. He is recorded as being without any club since. His non participation under Jones was no doubt influenced by the clubs decision, before Jones arrival, to bring in Coventry, Bakinson, Fiorini and then Jones insistence they not sell Dobson. Not to mention Camara’s brief return from injury.
Jones preference to manage careers in house is hardly unique. This executive has mandated he carry 8. That is on them not him. It is THE pipeline fundamental to their business plan.There is little space to do both. e.g. If you take Barry where do T.Campbell, Kanu, Dixon, Casey, Mbick & Rylah then feature, if at all?
Yeah but Hylton? He has played 19 minutes. A fat lot of development they are going to get in 19 minutes.
I very much agree if you invest in the right quality, fitness profiles, flexibility, experience, leadership, game management you can legitimately operate with a senior squad of 18-20 (with academy support). Regrettably such players invariably come with a notable transfer fee and/ or salary to match,
Our Summer closed with - a free transfer from Brighton, 2 veterans on short term contracts and a loan signing
Personally think if we add 3 as first 11 in GK, LCB, and the allusive creative playmaking type then add to our current "best", like sticking Ramsay and Edwards at wing back and then thats a solid top 10 with potential. Make up the other 2 as quality loans.
NEW
Mitchell Jones New
Ramsay Edwards
Coventry Taylor
New
Leaburn Godden
Then it just comes down to Jones and if he can be arsed to attempt football and show a little faith in his players. Which is probably the bigger ask!
The dross we have signed with a couple of exceptions are pretty crap, and they block the way for youngsters. If we’re going to be crap, let it be our cheaper home grown crap rather than the likes of Docherty, or Berry, or Ahadme or Alan Campbell, or Hylton.
How much worse than Berry would Enslin be? I don’t know, but he wouldn’t be costing as much and as Jimmy Hill once famously said ‘not finished, just started’.
We need to move on the following as quickly as we can -
Edun
AMB
Assimwe
Gillesphey
Potts
Hylton
Campbell A
Taylor
Watson
Mannion
Small
Aneke
While some (Small, Taylor, Mannion, etc) may be considered good enough, that just shows how poor we are in general. We need better! getting rid of all these will free up wages so we can create a decent squad capable of challenging near the top of this division... I doubt it will happen in January, but by the summer we need to lose all of these inadequate players.
I don't know who's more deluded, the people that say things like this or the people who think we are only a couple of players away
23/24: Ladapo, Fiorini, Bakinson
22/23: Kane, Penney, Kilkenney
21/22: Castillo, John, Burstow
20/21: Millar, Stockley, Smith
19/20: Green, Smith, Davis, McGeady
18/19: Maxwell, Purrington, Odoh
17/18: Mavididi, Zyro, Kaikai
16/17: Mavididi, Byrne, DaSilva
15/16: Williams, Poyet, Sanogo, Suk-Young, Fanni
14/15: Velkjovic