That will happen anyway. Now almost everyone has been forced to have their wages or pensions paid directly into their bank account, and therefore cannot live without dealing with banks, they have us over a barrel, and charges will soon start appearing.
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]That will happen anyway. Now almost everyone has been forced to have their wages or pensions paid directly into their bank account, and therefore cannot live without dealing with banks, they have us over a barrel, and charges will soon start appearing.
This is something I've been arguing here in France for ages. Free banking does not exist here. At like most things in any society, people do not see that it's wrong if they've known nothing else.
I remember a friend when we were 16 moaning because he had to open a bank account when he started a week-end job. He just didn't want one - he preferred cash. That was with free banking. Why should we now have to pay for something we could do without? Everything is so geared to having a bank account in today's society that I think it should be financed by the government.
This is quite a topical subject as on Monday I negotiated zero commission (for one year mind) in return for starting a pension plan.
No free banking in Portugal either. If banks in the UK start charging, then the government should legislate for people being able to insist in being paid cash. But that will not happen, because it is not in the interests of the big business' that bankroll the political parties.
Had my letter Three weeks ago from the Banking Ombudsman saying I had won my charges battle with the Bank & they had agreed to pay back the full amount I was asking for after three months of letters etc but still accepted no liability. No problem with that. However, they are allowed an additional SIX WEEKS to pay me. It's fookin wooden dollars FFS how long does it take to type out a credit on a computer...six weeks my arse.
I realise this may be a controversial statement but, as a person who never goes overdrawn (largely because I DON'T BUY THINGS I CAN'T BLOODY WELL AFFORD) I'm not particularly impressed with the thought that I might have to subsidise the stupid spending habits of people who earn fuck all yet still spend two grand on a sodding telly.
So am i right in thinking that if you still want to claim against 'unfair' charges you no longer can until this court case is sorted out? If so anyone know how long before this case is resolved?
Chris no thats not the case, it's upto the judges on the individual case. I've got one thats had a stay put on it at the AQ phase and another thats just been given a court date.
Leroy, totally understand what your saying & your sentiments, and agree that people have got themselves into the mess on their own, but at the same time it's actually the other way round, people who are rubbish with money are subsidining you!
When 'free banking' dissapears people might start viewing banks like any other service and can choose they're accounts based upon a set of clear charges laid out from the beginning rather than the cloke and dagger that the banks opporate on now.
T - I understand that argument, but refute it like this:
If there was some way for me to get my salary paid in cash, I would do it. I hate the fact that I now HAVE to have a bank account to have my salary paid into, whereas before the nineties, plenty of people used to get paid in cash (if they wanted). The last place I worked at that had a 'wages office' was in the mid nineties - now you HAVE to have an account in order to receive your salary. One of the ways I deal with this is ensuring that I NEVER go into the red - thus incurring penalty charges for spending money which I don't have. the rationale behind your argument is that it is people like me who are subsidising freeloaders because, if the banks are not allowed to charge me for banking, they have to make a profit somewhere - e.g. the penalty charges for people going overdrawn.
Firstly, the entire argument about banks 'needing to preserve a profit' is utter, utter rubbish. Every time this is mentioned in the press or on the telly, banks wheel out some prick being paid 200 grand a year to shill for them and espouse dire warnings about the future of the country's economy being at risk if banks aren't allowed to continue to make obscene profits. The banking industry in this country is amongst the most profitable in the world - largely because of the British public's propensity for bending over and taking it up the arse. My heart bleeds for them if their profit margins are going to be cut slightly as a result of phasing out penalty charges without phasing in standard banking charges.
Secondly, I find it utterly amazing that there are people out there who can't manage their finances, rightly get fined by their bank as a result, yet now expect to jump on the bandwagon, whinge and piss and moan about it and get a shedload of money back because of their financial naivete. There are some ridiculous cases where banks are overzealous about rinsing people dry - but I estimate that they make up perhaps 2-4% of those people claiming back charges. The rest of them just didn't earn enough money to fund their lifestyles - and its an absolute liberty that banks should even be allowed to CONSIDER charging me to recoup costs they have lost because they are no longer allowed to charge some chav twat 30 quid every time he's stupid enough to buy a new pair of trainers that he can't afford.
Thirdly, as I said - there is no alternative, and never will be. As long as I am not allowed to be paid without it going into a bank first, charging me for the 'privilege' is taxation - nothing more.
If free banking does disappear, and there isn't an alternative for people like me - who libe within their means - then I will find some other way to make extra money to accomodate the shortfall. No way am I going to be charged for the 'privilege' of my bank processing MY wages every month, or for the 'privilege' of setting up a direct sodding debit for my council tax!!!
Totally fair points. Surely the baddie here is the banking industry rather than those who miss manage their finances?
I'm with Barclays who made £4.1 billion profit last year, i've been charged penalties for going over my overdraft. It does drive me mad that I have a bad month and barclays take £90 of my money for taking £7 of theirs (surely it's little more than loansharking?!) which leaves me needing to make up £90 the following month I can see how it can spiral. Not suggesting it's anyone elses fault by my own but at the same time it's little more than the bank 'milking me' so they can make even more profit.
you have very eloquently put the case for a banking consumers charter!
Have you signed the petition? I'm unsure as to whether or not an Afro motif will suffice instead of a signature:-)
To be serious yes you are right a lot of people are financially feckless and live beyond their means. However there are an awful lot more in stook through no fault of their own.
Plenty of smaller (and maybe some bigger) companies pay their staff later than they are supposed to. Those people then have direct debits that they are COMPELLED to have taken from their bank accounts on the due date. Through no fault of their own they are then overdrawn and subject to the double whammy of overdraft interest AND penalty charges which, for the lower paid especially, is likely to trap them in a viscious spiral of debt, interest and charges.
As you rightly point out there is no CHOICE as to whether or not you have a bank account. The "choice" (such as it is) is which member of the charge fixing cartel you go to! Hence we need a charter.
For the record I, like you, maintain my account in credit and avoid the evil direct debit system as far as I am allowed to.
However I feel strongly that penalty charges are firstly immoral and secondly excessive particularly when the banks are getting double bubble via interest charges.
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]No free banking in Portugal either. If banks in the UK start charging, then the government should legislate for people being able to insist in being paid cash. But that will not happen, because it is not in the interests of the big business' that bankroll the political parties.
British banks charge about 1/3rd less than most other countries (according to last weeks economist).
It is still a criminal offence to have a cheque bounce in the UK (Theft act 1950 something but banks don't enforce this anymore) It is in USA and American cheques rarely bounce as a result.
Every other country in the world levy bank charges.
My points are a) British Banks are not all bad and b) be careful what you wish for
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]
If people are stupid enough to spend beyond their means, they should face the consequences.
That's a bit too hardline AFKA. I rarely go overdrawn but it only needs a minor miscalculation (easier to make if you have a crap income). Those with a carp income then find it harder to get back in line as already said:
[cite]Posted By: T[/cite]
It does drive me mad that I have a bad month and barclays take £90 of my money for taking £7 of theirs (surely it's little more than loansharking?!) which leaves me needing to make up £90 the following month I can see how it can spiral. Not suggesting it's anyone elses fault by my own but at the same time it's little more than the bank 'milking me' so they can make even more profit.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, yes the banks are profiteering, but if you have say a £100 debt and the bank sends you a letter and says we are going to fine you £1 for the cost of the letter the chances are you'll say sod it and have a £101 debt, and then in a month it becomes a £102 debt, plus interest etc and so on. However if you know that every letter is going to cost you £10 or £20 then you are likely to do something about the debt.
My main concern is that because i am a low wage earner and have an account with no overdraft facility and NO CREDIT CARDS, what i earn is what i can spend from 1 month to the next, if i feck up i am stuffed. What will the bank be charging me in the future for a SO Called service when i've not Abused the system by borrowing too much beyond my means.
Comments
This is something I've been arguing here in France for ages. Free banking does not exist here. At like most things in any society, people do not see that it's wrong if they've known nothing else.
I remember a friend when we were 16 moaning because he had to open a bank account when he started a week-end job. He just didn't want one - he preferred cash. That was with free banking. Why should we now have to pay for something we could do without? Everything is so geared to having a bank account in today's society that I think it should be financed by the government.
This is quite a topical subject as on Monday I negotiated zero commission (for one year mind) in return for starting a pension plan.
Leroy, totally understand what your saying & your sentiments, and agree that people have got themselves into the mess on their own, but at the same time it's actually the other way round, people who are rubbish with money are subsidining you!
When 'free banking' dissapears people might start viewing banks like any other service and can choose they're accounts based upon a set of clear charges laid out from the beginning rather than the cloke and dagger that the banks opporate on now.
If there was some way for me to get my salary paid in cash, I would do it. I hate the fact that I now HAVE to have a bank account to have my salary paid into, whereas before the nineties, plenty of people used to get paid in cash (if they wanted). The last place I worked at that had a 'wages office' was in the mid nineties - now you HAVE to have an account in order to receive your salary. One of the ways I deal with this is ensuring that I NEVER go into the red - thus incurring penalty charges for spending money which I don't have. the rationale behind your argument is that it is people like me who are subsidising freeloaders because, if the banks are not allowed to charge me for banking, they have to make a profit somewhere - e.g. the penalty charges for people going overdrawn.
Firstly, the entire argument about banks 'needing to preserve a profit' is utter, utter rubbish. Every time this is mentioned in the press or on the telly, banks wheel out some prick being paid 200 grand a year to shill for them and espouse dire warnings about the future of the country's economy being at risk if banks aren't allowed to continue to make obscene profits. The banking industry in this country is amongst the most profitable in the world - largely because of the British public's propensity for bending over and taking it up the arse. My heart bleeds for them if their profit margins are going to be cut slightly as a result of phasing out penalty charges without phasing in standard banking charges.
Secondly, I find it utterly amazing that there are people out there who can't manage their finances, rightly get fined by their bank as a result, yet now expect to jump on the bandwagon, whinge and piss and moan about it and get a shedload of money back because of their financial naivete. There are some ridiculous cases where banks are overzealous about rinsing people dry - but I estimate that they make up perhaps 2-4% of those people claiming back charges. The rest of them just didn't earn enough money to fund their lifestyles - and its an absolute liberty that banks should even be allowed to CONSIDER charging me to recoup costs they have lost because they are no longer allowed to charge some chav twat 30 quid every time he's stupid enough to buy a new pair of trainers that he can't afford.
Thirdly, as I said - there is no alternative, and never will be. As long as I am not allowed to be paid without it going into a bank first, charging me for the 'privilege' is taxation - nothing more.
If free banking does disappear, and there isn't an alternative for people like me - who libe within their means - then I will find some other way to make extra money to accomodate the shortfall. No way am I going to be charged for the 'privilege' of my bank processing MY wages every month, or for the 'privilege' of setting up a direct sodding debit for my council tax!!!
I'm with Barclays who made £4.1 billion profit last year, i've been charged penalties for going over my overdraft. It does drive me mad that I have a bad month and barclays take £90 of my money for taking £7 of theirs (surely it's little more than loansharking?!) which leaves me needing to make up £90 the following month I can see how it can spiral. Not suggesting it's anyone elses fault by my own but at the same time it's little more than the bank 'milking me' so they can make even more profit.
There are not many services i use that make me money in the process.
If people are stupid enough to spend beyond their means, they should face the consequences.
you have very eloquently put the case for a banking consumers charter!
Have you signed the petition? I'm unsure as to whether or not an Afro motif will suffice instead of a signature:-)
To be serious yes you are right a lot of people are financially feckless and live beyond their means. However there are an awful lot more in stook through no fault of their own.
Plenty of smaller (and maybe some bigger) companies pay their staff later than they are supposed to. Those people then have direct debits that they are COMPELLED to have taken from their bank accounts on the due date. Through no fault of their own they are then overdrawn and subject to the double whammy of overdraft interest AND penalty charges which, for the lower paid especially, is likely to trap them in a viscious spiral of debt, interest and charges.
As you rightly point out there is no CHOICE as to whether or not you have a bank account. The "choice" (such as it is) is which member of the charge fixing cartel you go to! Hence we need a charter.
For the record I, like you, maintain my account in credit and avoid the evil direct debit system as far as I am allowed to.
However I feel strongly that penalty charges are firstly immoral and secondly excessive particularly when the banks are getting double bubble via interest charges.
Spot on Algarve!
It is still a criminal offence to have a cheque bounce in the UK (Theft act 1950 something but banks don't enforce this anymore) It is in USA and American cheques rarely bounce as a result.
Every other country in the world levy bank charges.
My points are a) British Banks are not all bad and b) be careful what you wish for
That's a bit too hardline AFKA. I rarely go overdrawn but it only needs a minor miscalculation (easier to make if you have a crap income). Those with a carp income then find it harder to get back in line as already said:
What will the bank be charging me in the future for a SO Called service when i've not Abused the system by borrowing too much beyond my means.