wrexham clearly hadn’t done much homework on us if Parky made a thing about restricting us to long cross field balls. Thats our game Parky!
I know we say it every week but I have never known us to have a squad with such little creativity. We literally have T Campbell, and they do far had delivered no positive outcome,
I think I’d happily give up food for a week if it meant a return of someone like Rak Sakyi.
Even in the shite last 8 years we’ve always had a Rak-Sakyi, CBT, Lee, Leko, Millar, Doughty, Gallagher, Green, Williams, Fosu, Aribo, Jackson, Holmes, Dasilva, Malvididi, Lookman, Botaka. Someone with either pace, trickery or could find a through ball.
And that’s not even touching on strikers.
Think you're being very generous to a couple of those but I kind of agree. The problem is if you rely on one or two players (like we did with CBT and JRS) you're screwed if they go out of form or get injured. I think NJ is trying to create a system where you have a chance when you win the ball upfield which nullifies those risks. The problem is that often that ball is falling at a time when the movement isn't right ahead or the player receiving the ball gets caught in two minds
wrexham clearly hadn’t done much homework on us if Parky made a thing about restricting us to long cross field balls. Thats our game Parky!
I know we say it every week but I have never known us to have a squad with such little creativity. We literally have T Campbell, and they do far had delivered no positive outcome,
I think I’d happily give up food for a week if it meant a return of someone like Rak Sakyi.
Even in the shite last 8 years we’ve always had a Rak-Sakyi, CBT, Lee, Leko, Millar, Doughty, Gallagher, Green, Williams, Fosu, Aribo, Jackson, Holmes, Dasilva, Malvididi, Lookman, Botaka. Someone with either pace, trickery or could find a through ball.
And that’s not even touching on strikers.
Think you're being very generous to a couple of those but I kind of agree. The problem is if you rely on one or two players (like we did with CBT and JRS) you're screwed if they go out of form or get injured. I think NJ is trying to create a system where you have a chance when you win the ball upfield which nullifies those risks. The problem is that often that ball is falling at a time when the movement isn't right ahead or the player receiving the ball gets caught in two minds
I don't think it's a question of relying on one or two players, more than having one or two players in the mix that can actually make a difference. On that basis, saying "you're screwed if they go out of form or get injured" begs the question, how screwed are you if you don't even have them in the first place. You say, "I think NJ is trying to create a system where you have a chance when you win the ball upfield". In all my 62 years of supporting this club, I have dreamed of, nay lived for, a time when we have a chance when we win the ball upfield.
wrexham clearly hadn’t done much homework on us if Parky made a thing about restricting us to long cross field balls. Thats our game Parky!
I know we say it every week but I have never known us to have a squad with such little creativity. We literally have T Campbell, and they do far had delivered no positive outcome,
I think I’d happily give up food for a week if it meant a return of someone like Rak Sakyi.
Even in the shite last 8 years we’ve always had a Rak-Sakyi, CBT, Lee, Leko, Millar, Doughty, Gallagher, Green, Williams, Fosu, Aribo, Jackson, Holmes, Dasilva, Malvididi, Lookman, Botaka. Someone with either pace, trickery or could find a through ball.
And that’s not even touching on strikers.
Think you're being very generous to a couple of those but I kind of agree. The problem is if you rely on one or two players (like we did with CBT and JRS) you're screwed if they go out of form or get injured. I think NJ is trying to create a system where you have a chance when you win the ball upfield which nullifies those risks. The problem is that often that ball is falling at a time when the movement isn't right ahead or the player receiving the ball gets caught in two minds
Think we are nearing that point already, nearly everytime TC got the ball yesterday out wide, he’d very quickly have 2 Wrexham players over to him.
This was often our problem with CBT, he’d be our only threat and because we don’t move the ball quickly enough teams can easily stop that threat by getting 2 players out there
My point really was that what these tactics need is 3 out of your front 4 to be playing at 7/10 level each week rather than relying on 1/2 players to be playing at 8/10 each week. I accept there isn’t much difference but the idea is that the team is more than a sum of its parts. The fact TC is being relied on is a testament to both his quality and the tactics not working
wrexham clearly hadn’t done much homework on us if Parky made a thing about restricting us to long cross field balls. Thats our game Parky!
I know we say it every week but I have never known us to have a squad with such little creativity. We literally have T Campbell, and they do far had delivered no positive outcome,
I think I’d happily give up food for a week if it meant a return of someone like Rak Sakyi.
Even in the shite last 8 years we’ve always had a Rak-Sakyi, CBT, Lee, Leko, Millar, Doughty, Gallagher, Green, Williams, Fosu, Aribo, Jackson, Holmes, Dasilva, Malvididi, Lookman, Botaka. Someone with either pace, trickery or could find a through ball.
And that’s not even touching on strikers.
Absolutely agree with this. However I wonder if NJ would absolutely lose his mind with some of those!!! This squad is crying out for someone with a bit of flair that can open a game up - TC might get there and it's too soon to expect that from Dixon really so it feels like a priority to address in January.
wrexham clearly hadn’t done much homework on us if Parky made a thing about restricting us to long cross field balls. Thats our game Parky!
I know we say it every week but I have never known us to have a squad with such little creativity. We literally have T Campbell, and they do far had delivered no positive outcome,
I think I’d happily give up food for a week if it meant a return of someone like Rak Sakyi.
Even in the shite last 8 years we’ve always had a Rak-Sakyi, CBT, Lee, Leko, Millar, Doughty, Gallagher, Green, Williams, Fosu, Aribo, Jackson, Holmes, Dasilva, Malvididi, Lookman, Botaka. Someone with either pace, trickery or could find a through ball.
And that’s not even touching on strikers.
Absolutely agree with this. However I wonder if NJ would absolutely lose his mind with some of those!!! This squad is crying out for someone with a bit of flair that can open a game up - TC might get there and it's too soon to expect that from Dixon really so it feels like a priority to address in January.
The big question is will NJ agree with that. It’s not like it wasn’t an obvious gap in the summer.
It wouldn’t have been as much of an issue if our pressing was as effective as looked like it could have been, but for whatever reason we don’t do it consistently.
I get not having several wingers if we’re playing 3-5-2 or a box/diamond midfield, but we don’t even have a central midfielder that can drive forward with the ball.
wrexham clearly hadn’t done much homework on us if Parky made a thing about restricting us to long cross field balls. Thats our game Parky!
I know we say it every week but I have never known us to have a squad with such little creativity. We literally have T Campbell, and they do far had delivered no positive outcome,
I think I’d happily give up food for a week if it meant a return of someone like Rak Sakyi.
Even in the shite last 8 years we’ve always had a Rak-Sakyi, CBT, Lee, Leko, Millar, Doughty, Gallagher, Green, Williams, Fosu, Aribo, Jackson, Holmes, Dasilva, Malvididi, Lookman, Botaka. Someone with either pace, trickery or could find a through ball.
And that’s not even touching on strikers.
Absolutely agree with this. However I wonder if NJ would absolutely lose his mind with some of those!!! This squad is crying out for someone with a bit of flair that can open a game up - TC might get there and it's too soon to expect that from Dixon really so it feels like a priority to address in January.
The big question is will NJ agree with that. It’s not like it wasn’t an obvious gap in the summer.
It wouldn’t have been as much of an issue if our pressing was as effective as looked like it could have been, but for whatever reason we don’t do it consistently.
I get not having several wingers if we’re playing 3-5-2 or a box/diamond midfield, but we don’t even have a central midfielder that can drive forward with the ball.
I think it goes back beyond even NJs appointment, given we were heavily in for Aaron Collins last January who admittedly wouldn't be an NJ type of player at all. We badly need a CM that can get on the ball and drive and create. I don't think we've got that player at the club and the summer CM signings all feel a bit samey.
Anyone else think our box midfield setup is a bit flawed? It's supposed to give us that edge down the middle, but we don't seem to make the most of it. Instead we keep trying to go down the flanks where this formation is weakest.
Against teams with good width, we basically give up territory and the wide spaces become open season for the opposition. On Saturday, our two Ams were pressing Wrexham's defenders, but they had easy options out wide. One quick pass, and our midfield shape is stretched, a couple more passes and they were in our final third without having to work for it.
Going forward, we kept forcing it down the wings, even though we had no real width, instead of using the middle where we had the numbers. It was only when we found that threaded forward pass through the lines that we actually started to play some football.
Against Stockport, we looked much better going forward. I think a big part of that was having Taylor at DM because he knows how to find those passes.
Anyone else think our box midfield setup is a bit flawed? It's supposed to give us that edge down the middle, but we don't seem to make the most of it. Instead we keep trying to go down the flanks where this formation is weakest.
Against teams with good width, we basically give up territory and the wide spaces become open season for the opposition. On Saturday, our two Ams were pressing Wrexham's defenders, but they had easy options out wide. One quick pass, and our midfield shape is stretched, a couple more passes and they were in our final third without having to work for it.
Going forward, we kept forcing it down the wings, even though we had no real width, instead of using the middle where we had the numbers. It was only when we found that threaded forward pass through the lines that we actually started to play some football.
Against Stockport, we looked much better going forward. I think a big part of that was having Taylor at DM because he knows how to find those passes.
I think it depends on how you press. Ideally your strikers press the CB's, one of your 10's keeps an eye on the other and your other 10 blocks off the wide option if they're playing 3 at the back. We don't seem to do that too well though. They definitely struggled more against the box in the first half though from the sounds of it
Anyone else think our box midfield setup is a bit flawed? It's supposed to give us that edge down the middle, but we don't seem to make the most of it. Instead we keep trying to go down the flanks where this formation is weakest.
Against teams with good width, we basically give up territory and the wide spaces become open season for the opposition. On Saturday, our two Ams were pressing Wrexham's defenders, but they had easy options out wide. One quick pass, and our midfield shape is stretched, a couple more passes and they were in our final third without having to work for it.
Going forward, we kept forcing it down the wings, even though we had no real width, instead of using the middle where we had the numbers. It was only when we found that threaded forward pass through the lines that we actually started to play some football.
Against Stockport, we looked much better going forward. I think a big part of that was having Taylor at DM because he knows how to find those passes.
I don’t think it matches up well against a traditional 3-5-2, as the wing backs are an easy outball for the opposition. If you are pressing man to man then our full backs will have to step up and engage them, which is risky as it leaves their 2 strikers against our 2 centre backs, especially risky with Lloyd Jones out injured
Against Barnsley and Wrexham we have switched formation to 3-5-2 during the game to match the opposition up because of the box not working as well as hoped
Anyone else think our box midfield setup is a bit flawed? It's supposed to give us that edge down the middle, but we don't seem to make the most of it. Instead we keep trying to go down the flanks where this formation is weakest.
Against teams with good width, we basically give up territory and the wide spaces become open season for the opposition. On Saturday, our two Ams were pressing Wrexham's defenders, but they had easy options out wide. One quick pass, and our midfield shape is stretched, a couple more passes and they were in our final third without having to work for it.
Going forward, we kept forcing it down the wings, even though we had no real width, instead of using the middle where we had the numbers. It was only when we found that threaded forward pass through the lines that we actually started to play some football.
Against Stockport, we looked much better going forward. I think a big part of that was having Taylor at DM because he knows how to find those passes.
Our midfield certainly hasn't been the strongest part of our team that's for sure and it may be my tinted specs but I see more green shoots now than previously. I think Coventry is one of the first names on the team sheet and Karoy always gives it his all, they are good and I think are respectively getting better. Luke Berry is more than worth his place in the squad. Allan Campbell has been disappointing given that he was an ever-present for Luton a couple of years ago when they went up to the Prem but maybe he's been suffering from lack of gametime as he didn't appear much for Millwall last season? He does seem to be coming into his own and I think we're going to like him more soon. And as he's on a season-long loan perhaps he's playing for a new contract at the end of the season? Doherty is a bit of a mystery in that his performances haven't been what I thought they'd be but like AC he didn't feature much (for Hull) last season so I'm hoping he's been a bit ring rusty. NJ must have rated him to make him skipper, normally the skip plays more than GD has but then NJ isn't afraid to change things up if he thinks he needs to. I'm very hopeful and expectant even about Terry Taylor. He looks comfortable in possession, seems to 'know' where everyone is, he can pick a pass, go forwards with the ball and win it back. And........ NJ plays a definite style...... so maybe it's taken at least some of them some time to acclimatize to that style...... both in and out of possession? This time last year...... if all these guys had been on offer as a midfield group...... who among us would have 'bitten your hand off'? I would have for sure. Green shoots......
I think the team are starting to be a bit deluded when they talk about our tactics. From about 2:40 in this interview Alex Mitchel says "It would be nice to win playing liquid football and at times we are. We play out a couple times, we move it to then hit a diag". That isn't liquid football but is damning on the tactics NJ is employing
The lump is a valid strategy in its own right but we aren't very good at it and we don't play it the way we should. Obviously very different levels but the Ipswich v Utd match was a good example of the principles done well. Delap's chance that he should have scored is a great example of the LCB using his passing range to create a chance quickly from the backline. Ipswich set up in a very fluid 4231 where the LB would press very high up the pitch and the RB would shift narrow.
Burgess at CB played a big hoof straight down the field from the back for Davis the left back to run onto and put across the face of goal. The thing there though is it involved something that we very rarely see, which is the LWB going early to evade his marker and the pass being let loose equally quickly. So often we either give the ball to our WB to feet while he's still deep or we post our WB up very high very early and any long ball is played to them to receive with their back to goal instead of when he's already made the run in behind the defender. The few plays we do seem to work on are very static and very easy to plan against for teams. The best way to utilise a WB in these situations is to overload and not allow the opposition time to react to a change in balance but we tend to get everyone into place first and then try and change our passes. Those big diagonal balls from Gillesphey would be a lot more useful if they were into a space our players were sprinting into rather than needing to be pinpoint onto a static player's toe, which they never are.
Even more relevant it was interesting watching Utd switching the play between the WBs so regularly yesterday. The central CB would move up and allow the RCB and LCB to get on the ball and they would switch between them and the keeper before shifting it out to the WB which creates a bit more space early. Utd's goal came from a one-two between Fernandes and Amad, which admittedly we were trying to do at the start of the season between Ramsay and Docherty but rarely pulled it off. They would regularly miss out a player to get the ball to the opposite flank as quickly as possible; LWB to RCB to RWB or LWB to LCB to RCB to RWB all in one fairly fluid movement. They even tried RWB to LWB once or twice but it rarely came off in the wind. They broke the press with quick switches and found players in space mostly by probing through these switches as quickly as possible. I'd like to see us start doing this more. At the moment we only really use our WBs as extra defenders or give one the job of pushing higher early when regular switches force width into the team and create gaps in the midfield that can be exploited. That would be very useful for us as a team where our midfielders seem to need as much space and time created for them as possible. Instead of relying on Gillesphey to hit one in a million diagonals perfectly every time we could be using his passing to get that ball across the backline quickly and out to the WBs to drag the opposition out of place. Similarly Coventry is the kind of midfielder who can get the ball shifted out wide rapidly as it comes to him from the WB (something something sideways pass he'll love it). We actually have players suited to this tactic of getting that ball out wide, back into the middle and out to the other flank, we're just choosing to whack it up the pitch fairly randomly instead. And then if we actually do get the WB free up the pitch we have Godden, Leaburn and (whisper it) Ahadme as players who are suited to getting on the end of a ball across the face of the goal.
Basically, I hope Nathan Jones watched that match.
Apparently Nathan knew how good Matty Pearson was from set pieces - he scored loads for me etc etc and he told the players about him before the game So in order to counter that known threat, someone decided that the best person to mark him would be 20 year old inexperienced , not really a centre half, Thierry Small.
It’s really hard to understand what managers actually do to prepare players in training during the week.
I think the team are starting to be a bit deluded when they talk about our tactics. From about 2:40 in this interview Alex Mitchel says "It would be nice to win playing liquid football and at times we are. We play out a couple times, we move it to then hit a diag". That isn't liquid football but is damning on the tactics NJ is employing
Only thing that’s liquid is our defence. It’s certainly not solid
Don't let ooohaaa see that post....
Very true Fanny , got back on the chocolate after just over 8 months off it last night , 4 chocolate digestives , 2 fingers of timeout and 2 penguins to ease myself back in to it and this is being written from on the pan(3rd visit since midnight) …. Christmas coming I’m gonna put a few pounds on before the new year diets kick in The fear in the kids faces when they realised I was back in the chocolate game was noticeable cos I’ll be making a big dent in the stocks .
I think the team are starting to be a bit deluded when they talk about our tactics. From about 2:40 in this interview Alex Mitchel says "It would be nice to win playing liquid football and at times we are. We play out a couple times, we move it to then hit a diag". That isn't liquid football but is damning on the tactics NJ is employing
Worrying that in September fans had identified the ineffective and boring nature of our hoof--it tactics, and two months on we our witnessing a poorer application of the same.
“But we don’t set up to go long, long, long. We don’t train like that. That’s not how we train. We train to be fluent, to be front-footed. To move the ball quickly to be aggressive, to run beyond people. That’s what we train to do, and we made better choices today.”
Why doesn’t that happen in games? Are the players not clear? Do they not read opposition well enough? Confidence? I believe him when he says he wants to play better football as occasionally we do it and you can see the patterns but it’s not happening often enough
Why doesn’t that happen in games? Are the players not clear? Do they not read opposition well enough? Confidence? I believe him when he says he wants to play better football as occasionally we do it and you can see the patterns but it’s not happening often enough
We look mustard in training because we are playing against traffic cones, different story when we play against flesh and blood players
Why doesn’t that happen in games? Are the players not clear? Do they not read opposition well enough? Confidence? I believe him when he says he wants to play better football as occasionally we do it and you can see the patterns but it’s not happening often enough
We look mustard in training because we are playing against traffic cones, different story when we play against flesh and blood players
“But we don’t set up to go long, long, long. We don’t train like that. That’s not how we train. We train to be fluent, to be front-footed. To move the ball quickly to be aggressive, to run beyond people. That’s what we train to do, and we made better choices today.”
Nathan Jones appears to be telling us that the players play lovely passing football in training and then inexplicably ignore everything they've been told in training and decide to hoof the ball instead.
I'm sorry Nathan I simply don't believe that the players have been doing the opposite of what you tell them to do for 4 months.
If it's true then it's absolutely staggering that he cannot influence the way his team plays.
Comments
You say, "I think NJ is trying to create a system where you have a chance when you win the ball upfield".
In all my 62 years of supporting this club, I have dreamed of, nay lived for, a time when we have a chance when we win the ball upfield.
Absolutely agree with this. However I wonder if NJ would absolutely lose his mind with some of those!!! This squad is crying out for someone with a bit of flair that can open a game up - TC might get there and it's too soon to expect that from Dixon really so it feels like a priority to address in January.
I get not having several wingers if we’re playing 3-5-2 or a box/diamond midfield, but we don’t even have a central midfielder that can drive forward with the ball.
I think it goes back beyond even NJs appointment, given we were heavily in for Aaron Collins last January who admittedly wouldn't be an NJ type of player at all. We badly need a CM that can get on the ball and drive and create. I don't think we've got that player at the club and the summer CM signings all feel a bit samey.
Going forward, we kept forcing it down the wings, even though we had no real width, instead of using the middle where we had the numbers. It was only when we found that threaded forward pass through the lines that we actually started to play some football.
Against Stockport, we looked much better going forward. I think a big part of that was having Taylor at DM because he knows how to find those passes.
I think Coventry is one of the first names on the team sheet and Karoy always gives it his all, they are good and I think are respectively getting better.
Luke Berry is more than worth his place in the squad.
Allan Campbell has been disappointing given that he was an ever-present for Luton a couple of years ago when they went up to the Prem but maybe he's been suffering from lack of gametime as he didn't appear much for Millwall last season? He does seem to be coming into his own and I think we're going to like him more soon. And as he's on a season-long loan perhaps he's playing for a new contract at the end of the season?
Doherty is a bit of a mystery in that his performances haven't been what I thought they'd be but like AC he didn't feature much (for Hull) last season so I'm hoping he's been a bit ring rusty. NJ must have rated him to make him skipper, normally the skip plays more than GD has but then NJ isn't afraid to change things up if he thinks he needs to.
I'm very hopeful and expectant even about Terry Taylor. He looks comfortable in possession, seems to 'know' where everyone is, he can pick a pass, go forwards with the ball and win it back.
And........ NJ plays a definite style...... so maybe it's taken at least some of them some time to acclimatize to that style...... both in and out of possession?
This time last year...... if all these guys had been on offer as a midfield group...... who among us would have 'bitten your hand off'? I would have for sure.
Green shoots......
https://x.com/CAFCofficial/status/1860390036073496587
Burgess at CB played a big hoof straight down the field from the back for Davis the left back to run onto and put across the face of goal. The thing there though is it involved something that we very rarely see, which is the LWB going early to evade his marker and the pass being let loose equally quickly. So often we either give the ball to our WB to feet while he's still deep or we post our WB up very high very early and any long ball is played to them to receive with their back to goal instead of when he's already made the run in behind the defender. The few plays we do seem to work on are very static and very easy to plan against for teams. The best way to utilise a WB in these situations is to overload and not allow the opposition time to react to a change in balance but we tend to get everyone into place first and then try and change our passes. Those big diagonal balls from Gillesphey would be a lot more useful if they were into a space our players were sprinting into rather than needing to be pinpoint onto a static player's toe, which they never are.
Even more relevant it was interesting watching Utd switching the play between the WBs so regularly yesterday. The central CB would move up and allow the RCB and LCB to get on the ball and they would switch between them and the keeper before shifting it out to the WB which creates a bit more space early. Utd's goal came from a one-two between Fernandes and Amad, which admittedly we were trying to do at the start of the season between Ramsay and Docherty but rarely pulled it off. They would regularly miss out a player to get the ball to the opposite flank as quickly as possible; LWB to RCB to RWB or LWB to LCB to RCB to RWB all in one fairly fluid movement. They even tried RWB to LWB once or twice but it rarely came off in the wind. They broke the press with quick switches and found players in space mostly by probing through these switches as quickly as possible. I'd like to see us start doing this more. At the moment we only really use our WBs as extra defenders or give one the job of pushing higher early when regular switches force width into the team and create gaps in the midfield that can be exploited. That would be very useful for us as a team where our midfielders seem to need as much space and time created for them as possible. Instead of relying on Gillesphey to hit one in a million diagonals perfectly every time we could be using his passing to get that ball across the backline quickly and out to the WBs to drag the opposition out of place. Similarly Coventry is the kind of midfielder who can get the ball shifted out wide rapidly as it comes to him from the WB (something something sideways pass he'll love it). We actually have players suited to this tactic of getting that ball out wide, back into the middle and out to the other flank, we're just choosing to whack it up the pitch fairly randomly instead. And then if we actually do get the WB free up the pitch we have Godden, Leaburn and (whisper it) Ahadme as players who are suited to getting on the end of a ball across the face of the goal.
Basically, I hope Nathan Jones watched that match.
So in order to counter that known threat, someone decided that the best person to mark him would be 20 year old inexperienced , not really a centre half, Thierry Small.
It’s really hard to understand what managers actually do to prepare players in training during the week.
Madness.
The fear in the kids faces when they realised I was back in the chocolate game was noticeable cos I’ll be making a big dent in the stocks .
Tactics - The art of using available means to achieve a goal
I rest my case....
NJ, SMT, fans are voting with their feet.
I'm sorry Nathan I simply don't believe that the players have been doing the opposite of what you tell them to do for 4 months.
If it's true then it's absolutely staggering that he cannot influence the way his team plays.