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Squad or manager - what's the bigger problem

We're without a win in ten. 

Michael Appleton is no miracle worker,and he can only work with the players in the squad. 

However, he has demonstrated so few of the characteristics needed to be a successful manager.

No wins in 10. We would be ridiculed for hoping for a clean sheet given the state of the defence. 

The Board clearly have to make some positive decisions soon, but if you were in the boardroom where would you be putting your energy. Into bettering the squad, the manager or change both? 
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Comments

  • Manager

    with cbt out with a derby county injury, we needed to play to the strengths of the players available and that was 3-5-2.
  • Mainly the squad, any manager would have struggled with our injuries and lack of any physical strikers, but MA should have better than he has.
  • Believe me there is no quick fix to the mess we are in, and trying to blame one entity is not going to solve a decade or more of neglect and abuse of our great club, with Duchat, ESI and the Mouthall brigade, quickly followed by the guitar hero Sandy, and you could probably go further back still.
    Clearly this is another non season, and next season may not be a lot better, we might just make the playoffs, we have been well and truly shafted by a lot of clown owners, and a period of stability is whats required now, not another knee jerk change the manager at least until the end of the season...

  • Mainly squad... But if the SMT want us to get promotion and make a go at the Championship they need to find a manager who can out perform like Ipswich have.

    So far Appleton has had a bad hand and then played it badly. He is underperforming.  Even our depleted squad should have picked up more points from the poor, poor teams we have played in the last 10.

    The issue is that Scott is not going to move him on as it will be a second admission of failure on a manager in a short space of time. Put that together with all the shite players he has bought in so far and it does not look great on him does it.

    Therefore Apple's will almost certainly have the season and it will be down to whether we change up in the summer. I still think unlikely.
  • Very much the squad, we lack depth and we lack players who are the right fit for each other and any system we play.

    That being said, the manager has to take lots of responsibility for the results over the last 11 games as well.

    We are devoid of confidence and buckle easily under pressure, and that is very much in the manager and coaching teams remit to address and sort out.

    I do think we some quality coming back into the team our results will improve. 
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  • edited January 14
    Neither.

    Performances have been poor for so long it can't really be that we have simply hired too many poor managers.

    Think Chelsea. They have supposedly the best (or close to being) players and managers, yet are still failing after spending Half a Billion. Money and reputation are not the only factors in success, otherwise less wealthy clubs wouldn't achieve promotion. Organisation and a commited unit throughout the club is the key. I'm thinking Chris Wilder at United, Eddie Howe at Bournemouth, even Curbs back in the day. Success was built by no nonsense managers that had time to create something great over a decade or longer. 

    All three of those mentioned are ordinary blokes that were integral to their clubs, from the tea lady to the ball boys and parents of kids in their academies, they all were pushing in the same direction. If our club is to sort out this mess, that is what needs to happen. Top to bottom, there must be unity. The divides in our club makes it easy for other clubs to conquer both on the pitch, in the stands and the boardrooms.


  • edited January 14
    I think the biggest problem has been the squad which is why we still have the manager. He has to start winning though, especially with the new signings.
  • Mainly squad but the manager is not the right fit either .,both have change and for the better .,
  • Squad mostly, simply because the conceding of late goals and failure to keep clean sheets extends beyond Appleton's reign. It's mostly a mentality thing, but it doesn't help that it mostly coincides with AMB being in goal and Dobson being captain. I get the impression that neither are fantastic "talkers" in the game, and that on pitch leadership is so important 
  • Squad.  We'll come good once new players bed in if we can sign a few more this window.
  • sam3110 said:
    Squad mostly, simply because the conceding of late goals and failure to keep clean sheets extends beyond Appleton's reign. It's mostly a mentality thing, but it doesn't help that it mostly coincides with AMB being in goal and Dobson being captain. I get the impression that neither are fantastic "talkers" in the game, and that on pitch leadership is so important 
    100%. Excluding obvious holes in the squad in key position. Profile of the squad is awful. Too young, too inexperienced and not enough leaders and winners. Lack of height in the squad suffered with Camera/Aneke & Leaburn being long term injuries.
  • Down to the head coach. Yesterday is a fine example of his lack of tactical awareness. Plays a set up in that first half that was totally wrong and we were as bad as we have been in a while.

    He then sets up the way we should have started the game. Not the first time this season he’s done this especially when it comes to the position of May. He does not learn 
  • It's not an either/or question. To be successful you need a good squad and a good manager. From what I can see, neither are up to the level we'd like. That said, I was pleased with how the new signings looked yesterday, so hopefully we'll have a stronger squad before the window shuts.

    There is another element and that's the atmosphere at matches. Many of our long-suffering fans have grown quite impatient and are extremely quick to let the players know when they are dissatisfied. I fully understand why, but I don't think this helps when one of the issues with the squad is a lack of confidence. 
  • Stig said:
    It's not an either/or question. To be successful you need a good squad and a good manager. From what I can see, neither are up to the level we'd like. That said, I was pleased with how the new signings looked yesterday, so hopefully we'll have a stronger squad before the window shuts.

    There is another element and that's the atmosphere at matches. Many of our long-suffering fans have grown quite impatient and are extremely quick to let the players know when they are dissatisfied. I fully understand why, but I don't think this helps when one of the issues with the squad is a lack of confidence. 
    I agree that you need both , but the manager has to set the team up for the best chance of success. I not sure how many people thought that going into that game with Alfie , Chem and Tyreece up top was giving us a chance at all. Their defenders had an armchair ride until we switched formations. 
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  • Squad but have been encouraged by the recent additions. MA still has a lot to prove though but I wouldn't think about sacking him yet.
  • The squad is bad but it's better than this run we're on currently.

    We have played some really poor teams and have been unable to get results. We've also played some utterly dogshit football.
  • edited January 14
    It's the manager. 

    I was lol'd and called out when I said that our defense was poor, we are missing a few players and that I could identify players that would improve us at the likes of Carlisle, Stevenage and Northampton etc.

    Stevenage, Blackpool, Bristol Rovers, Lincoln, Leyton Orient and Northampton all sit above us. Wigan would be above us by 6 points if not for their deduction. We then have the likes of Wycombe, Port Vale, Cambridge and Shrewsbury on level points with us.

    As of December 15th, we have the 5th highest squad value in the league in market terms, it's probably gone up since the addition of Coventry and Gillesphey, plus the loans. 

    It is a bit of both, as certain players aren't performing or not avaliable, market value doesn't always equate to the table as it's all based on potential, however, it's mainly Appleton. There won't be many sides with our resources underachieving like this. Only Reading are the other side massively underachieving but they've had a points deduction and have off field issues.

    He needs to go, it's genuinely about 90% the manager. 

    Or alternatively people can say the likes of Wycombe and Port Vale have a similar calibre squad to us. 

    Get him gone.
  • I am disappointed that the manager has not addressed the poor defensive performances.
    I find it hard to believe that the players we have can't be coached into being a better, more solid and secure, defensive unit.
    Opposition wide players seem to have the luxury of one-to-one battles whereas our wide players face two defenders generally.
    Opposition short corners often have two strikers v Dobbo rushing out last minute with the "Surprise" spare man lurking on the edge of our box ready to fire in a shot.
  • edited January 14
    The squad is not that bad, though i m o it  lacks highly motivated players with a hint of controlled aggression and a real desire to win, perhaps CAFC is far too nice and genteel a club to employ such characters  ..
    The overriding problem has been with the stream of managers we have endured over the past few years, none of whom have developed either a settled first team selection or a coherent set of tactics.
     To digress a little, the scouting network is also failing it seems. For example I mentioned here a few posts back the fact that Peterborough have signed a few players from Barnet, including Lambeth born and raised Mason-Clark who played over 150 games for Barnet before Posh signed him. Why are players like him not being picked up by our scouts or are our scouts nowadays more like girl guides ?
  • edited January 14
    Thanks for the above comments.

    Going to be lazy and say both. I wanted to give the new man the chance when he replaced Holden. Regardless of squad depth, the manager instills a mentality onto his team and Ive seen little to suggest Appleton has been a positive influence.

    Also, there's no competition for places in the team. Pattern for several years at Charlton seems to be that you play until you're injured, and then we scramble to find someone to take their place.

    Would any of our players be worried about someone taking their place in the first 11?
  • It’s mainly the squad. The spine of the team has been sub par for going on 3 years now. Appleton & Scott appear to be the first blokes to have realised and tried to properly address it.

    Appleton hasn’t covered himself in glory during this stretch of games, definitely not. We could’ve and should’ve got a few more points that we have.
  • It’s mainly the squad. The spine of the team has been sub par for going on 3 years now. Appleton & Scott appear to be the first blokes to have realised and tried to properly address it.

    Appleton hasn’t covered himself in glory during this stretch of games, definitely not. We could’ve and should’ve got a few more points that we have.
    Think that’s wrong, they are the first who have been given the opportunity to address it

    Unfortunately for us, as neither of their performances so far give me much confidence they won’t waste the opportunity, I mean it’s taken them both months to even realise the best formation to use with these players 
  • It’s a thin squad that has its problems exacerbated by a rubbish manager. There’s no scenario where it’s acceptable to be 2-0 up against a poor Cambridge side with 10 minutes left and end up drawing. Can’t blame not having Leaburn and Aneke for that. The fact is we aren’t just a team that can’t beat the better teams because of our injuries, we can’t beat the very worst teams in the division unless we have an absolutely perfect lineup and you cannot succeed that way. There’s no team Appleton has put out that shouldn’t be able to beat Burton or Leyton Orient, he just can’t train or motivate the players. Same mistakes every week and no sign of improvement, just praying that Chuks stays fit long enough to win us a game 
  • It's a bit of both probably, improve the squad and manager and you would be flying.
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