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How big are we?

It seems to me that a lot of our supporters still see us as a Premier League club that happens to have fallen on hard times and currently find ourselves languishing in the 3rd tier. I personally have always seen us as a top-half Championship club that had a good spell in the top flight and currently finding ourselves during a below average period.

This got me thinking of what our average position is over a period of time, so I decided to work out what our average is over the last 50, 40, 30, 20 & 10 years and I was surprised with some of the results.

50 year Average: 14th in Championship

40: 12th in Championship

30: 13th in Championship  

20: 20th in Championship

10: 3rd in League One

Breaking the last 50 years down into 10 season chunks (starting in 72-73 season)

72/73-81/82:   6 seasons in the Championship, 4 in League One
82/83-91/92:   4 seasons in the Premier League, 6 in The Championship
92/93-01/02:   3 seasons in the Premier League, 7 in the Championship
02/03-11/12:   5 in the Premier League, 2 in the Championship, 3 in League One
12/13-21/22:   5 in the Championship, 5 in League One
*Using current names for divisions.

So, on average we're a mid to lower Championship team overall, but seem to be a team in a decline over the last decade. For a club our size this simply isn't sustainable and if things continue as they are there will come a point when it simply isn't viable to have a 27k stadium and we will have to cut our cloth accordingly or we could find ourselves with the stark reality of the club going belly-up forever. Worrying times are still very much with us.

Sorry for a rambling post, but boredom sometimes gets the better of me.
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Comments

  • Weighting to what happened 50 years ago should be far less than what has been happening over the last 10-20 years. 

    Also have to factor in the seismic impact of the Premier League, and how that division seemingly gets further and further away from the rest of the pyramid all the time. 

    There are a lot of clubs who would put an argument forward be considered ‘mid Championship’, or higher, but they can’t all fit. 
  • edited September 2023
    Where we rate in average attendances over those timeframes answers the question for me. Not that I know the answer of course 😉

    Good question though as it defines individuals expectation levels.

    Edit - didn't answer did I? In my lifetime, mid to lower 2nd tier in the pyramid. We now have a generation for whom 3rd tier is the norm 😟
  • Championship mid to low table is where I think we should be or would love to be, much better than mid to lower end L1! 
  • So what you’re saying is, we need to get a decent manager in to get us promoted before it’s too late? 
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  • I grew up with Charlton as preannial division 2 side. So I feel that is what we should be. The prem days were a bonus at the time. Unfortunately out come with a cost which what happend afterwards.
  • We're a declining club with a rapidly aging fan base. Not a great combination.
    Some of us are ageing more rapidly than others.
  • We're a declining club with a rapidly aging fan base. Not a great combination.
    I don't get that feeling at away games.
    Absolutely agree with this. In fact I sometimes wonder how so many youngsters who follow us can afford it. Love the fact they prioritise us and think the nucleus of fans is pretty strong despite the sh*t sandwich we have been served for a fair few years now.
  • edited September 2023
    Everyone knows we're just a sleeping giant. Once woken we will fucking rule English, European and why the hell not, World football for decades to come. 

    after-which we go into obscurity, dropping down divisions due to rising sea levels and The Valley being flooded (not even the good people of Doncaster can save it)  but then we become the best water polo team the world has ever seen. 
  • edited September 2023
    It seems to me that a lot of our supporters still see us as a Premier League club that happens to have fallen on hard times and currently find ourselves languishing in the 3rd tier. I personally have always seen us as a top-half Championship club that had a good spell in the top flight and currently finding ourselves during a below average period.

    This got me thinking of what our average position is over a period of time, so I decided to work out what our average is over the last 50, 40, 30, 20 & 10 years and I was surprised with some of the results.

    50 year Average: 14th in Championship

    40: 12th in Championship

    30: 13th in Championship  

    20: 20th in Championship

    10: 3rd in League One

    Breaking the last 50 years down into 10 season chunks (starting in 72-73 season)

    72/73-81/82:   6 seasons in the Championship, 4 in League One
    82/83-91/92:   4 seasons in the Premier League, 6 in The Championship
    92/93-01/02:   3 seasons in the Premier League, 7 in the Championship
    02/03-11/12:   5 in the Premier League, 2 in the Championship, 3 in League One
    12/13-21/22:   5 in the Championship, 5 in League One
    *Using current names for divisions.

    So, on average we're a mid to lower Championship team overall, but seem to be a team in a decline over the last decade. For a club our size this simply isn't sustainable and if things continue as they are there will come a point when it simply isn't viable to have a 27k stadium and we will have to cut our cloth accordingly or we could find ourselves with the stark reality of the club going belly-up forever. Worrying times are still very much with us.

    Sorry for a rambling post, but boredom sometimes gets the better of me.
    I worked out the 90 year average a few years ago, but can’t find the results unfortunately. We had twenty years in the top flight early on, which skews the result quite nicely. It’s a long time ago, so irrelevant to many, but it is part of the club’s history. 
    But I’d certainly be happy to be Championship stalwarts. A good base to build on. 
  • I remember some years ago having a go at ranking every league club in England based on some formula I'd concocted that included historical and current league placings, trophies won, money spent on transfers, and home and away attendances and maybe some other factors too. From memory we came mid-Championship at the time - I believe just below Wolves and Ipswich. Ultimately it's all nonsense though. It's where you are in the League that counts and that's 17th in the 3rd tier of English football. We are, as things stand, the 61st most important club in the country. 
  • Mid table Championship is my view.
    However there are a fair few Premier teams who are a similar size and some smaller.
    Agreed, but would add not to be looking downwards too often.

  • My question would be how do you define a big club.
    Personally, Everton and Wednesday fall into this category with size of support and stadium coupled with 'success' years gone by.
    Too many people look at sustained trophies, for me it can be argued Man United are the biggest in the world.
  • We're the biggest in South East London regardless of anything :)

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  • I think there are seven or eight “big” clubs in England, maybe 20 - 30 “small clubs” in the football league and after that the remaining 50 or so are basically the same, including us. 
  • I’ve watched us in the old Division One in front of 4000 and I’ve watched us in League One ( old Division 3) in front of 26000

    Our natural place in the football pyramid has historically been mid table 2nd division but sadly that’s sliding 

    But in terms of size potential and history we are definitely a top 30 club and ‘bigger’ than a few in the Prem

    Id rather be a Bournemouth fan at the moment though…
  • Stig said:
    I remember some years ago having a go at ranking every league club in England based on some formula I'd concocted that included historical and current league placings, trophies won, money spent on transfers, and home and away attendances and maybe some other factors too. From memory we came top. 
    Good work Stig. 👍
  • We're a declining club with a rapidly aging fan base. Not a great combination.
    I don't get that feeling at away games.
    Absolutely agree with this. In fact I sometimes wonder how so many youngsters who follow us can afford it. Love the fact they prioritise us and think the nucleus of fans is pretty strong despite the sh*t sandwich we have been served for a fair few years now.
    It's clubs with small but packed ground like Bournemouth which suffer more from an aging fan base, as youngsters can't get in. 

    Similarly with away tickets, they're currently relatively easy to get, and you can bring friends along for the day out.
  • I'd honestly be very surprised if many fans see us as a PL club.

    For most of my lifetime we were a run of the mill second tier side and i think that would be about our level, (as the 50/40/30/20 year averages in the original post kind of confirm).
  • I'd honestly be very surprised if many fans see us as a PL club.

    For most of my lifetime we were a run of the mill second tier side and i think that would be about our level, (as the 50/40/30/20 year averages in the original post kind of confirm).
    There are PL clubs I don’t see as PL clubs and even some of the biggest are often only a bad season or a bad owner away from losing that crown.

    Charlton has to be in that top tier of potential in terms of its catchment area, location (ie London and access to a young and affluent fanbase) and room for expansion of the ground. Most clubs can’t tick two of those boxes, let alone all three. 

    As it stands, the stadium with all its faults is light years ahead of many others, including the PL. Sparrows Lane could probably accommodate the facilities available to half the league.

    Are we a big club ? I suspect we are a lot bigger than people realise, including our own fan base.
  • Big enough - it’s what we do with it that counts !!
  • edited September 2023
    How big are Cafc in 23/24 season:

    Apparently size doesn't matter IF you can get the maximum out of what you have !

    Luton ten years ago won the Conference.
    Cafc ten years ago 18th in Championship.
    Charlton were 3 divisions higher than Luton.

    23/24 season as of 11/9/23
    Luton are 20 in Premier.
    Cafc are 17 in League 1.
    Charlton are 2 divisions lower than Luton town.

    We are like the Divorced man who lived in a lovely pleasant semi detached house in Keston but now after a messy divorce (ex with good lawyer and 4 kids of school age)  we has ended up in a one bed flat in Penge and we keep moaning about how shit it is.
  • Since I started watching in 1989 of the 20 teams from the division 10 are still in the equivalent of div 1, 7 in the equivalent of div 2, with 2 (including us) in div 3 and 1 in div 4.

    Up until 2016 we could still probably have been seen as a Championship team with the odd spell in the top league though more often than the odd dip into the lower leagues.

    Genuinely feels like the size of the club has been shrunk and damaged since RD appeared. Since his arrival we've been a league one team with the odd spell in the Championship. That is what failure looks like when you can see a club has slipped so much further down the pyramid for so long.


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