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Rugby World Cup - Nationality Qualifications.
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away from the topic for a bit .. Ireland are at home to England tomorrow (the pick of tomorrow's games) in their penultimate 'warm up' games prior to the World Cup .. both sides are pretty much at full strength .. SOOOOO should be a belter with Ireland hot favourites ..
Live on Amazon Prime around 17.00 hours0 -
that's a bit harsh on Scotland but the better of nations do benefit from 'poaching'. notably England who often - a classic example was given previously re the U18 Wales captain often far, far more by the WWRUNug said:It really has become a bit silly, the pilfering of South Pacific Island players by all the major nations is beyond ridiculous but you cannot blame the players. Moving from Tonga to play for the All Blacks has huge financial rewards. They could stay and the money spreads around more evenly but that doesn't look like happening all the while the Tier 1 nations control the game. Have to say the Springjocks....sorry the Scottish national team, are particularly punching above their weight with the South African influx.
I feel for the smaller countries like Georgia who have a phenomenal team but have to fight against this merry go round of player nationalities as well as being held down by World Rugby and the tier 1 nations who are protecting their income stream. I love rugby it's a great game but it needs a massive overhaul across the world. It also needs an overhaul in this country too so it's not stacked in the favour of elite schools and their players.
And some of the players playing for countries via a grandparent etc. were not in their home nation side and have benefitted from and been nurtured by their 'adopted' nation- not sure any of the SA born players who play for Scotland would get in the SA side - they have a second change at international level. As I posted previously, Van Der Merwe credits Scotland for saving his rugby career, qualifies via residency and says they believed in him when no one else did0 -
My favourite is Freddie Brown, as far as I know the only person to win an England cap (and he was captain) having been born in Lima, Peru.McBobbin said:
Not to mention Nawab Mohammad Iftikhar Ali Khan Pataudi,PrincessFiona said:
Shame if David Gower couldn't have played for ENG though. And countless other examplesSillybilly said:
To my simple mind the ultimate test is being born there and I can just about stretch to having a parent from that country. After that it loses me I’m afraid.Chizz said:As long as rugby is allowed to set its own rules and it polices them properly, I don't have an issue with it. Dempsey has a Scottish grandfather and therefore, within the rules, he is allowed to represent Scotland. He has also represented another country, but hasn't played for them for three years - again, that's within the rules.
As long as there are rules in place and the rules are followed, then there shouldn't be an issue.
It does, however, shine a light on the notion of being "Scottish" or "English", and so on. No-one has a Scottish passport, or an English passport. So, is there a straightforward, testable definition of being "Scottish" or "English" that works?0 -
There are quite a few other obscure countries of birth among England cricketers.FSLN1 said:
My favourite is Freddie Brown, as far as I know the only person to win an England cap (and he was captain) having been born in Lima, Peru.McBobbin said:
Not to mention Nawab Mohammad Iftikhar Ali Khan Pataudi,PrincessFiona said:
Shame if David Gower couldn't have played for ENG though. And countless other examplesSillybilly said:
To my simple mind the ultimate test is being born there and I can just about stretch to having a parent from that country. After that it loses me I’m afraid.Chizz said:As long as rugby is allowed to set its own rules and it polices them properly, I don't have an issue with it. Dempsey has a Scottish grandfather and therefore, within the rules, he is allowed to represent Scotland. He has also represented another country, but hasn't played for them for three years - again, that's within the rules.
As long as there are rules in place and the rules are followed, then there shouldn't be an issue.
It does, however, shine a light on the notion of being "Scottish" or "English", and so on. No-one has a Scottish passport, or an English passport. So, is there a straightforward, testable definition of being "Scottish" or "English" that works?
Papua New Guinea - Geraint Jones
Italy - Ted Dexter
Hong Kong - Dermot Reeve
Denmark - Amjad Khan
Zambia - Phil Edmonds and Neal Radford
Germany - Donald Carr and Paul Terry
Northern Ireland - Joseph McMaster, Martin McCague and Boyd Rankin
Sixteen England cricketers were born in Wales, 17 in India and 19 in South Africa
And two were born in Trinidad and Tobago. Surprisingly (to me, at least) they were Lord Harris and Pelham Warner.1 -
and 9 in Scotland (including Mike Denness of course) and 5 in the Republic of Ireland. And 3 in Zim
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Re the Welsh playing for England, don’t forget it is run by the the English and Welsh cricket board.Chizz said:
There are quite a few other obscure countries of birth among England cricketers.FSLN1 said:
My favourite is Freddie Brown, as far as I know the only person to win an England cap (and he was captain) having been born in Lima, Peru.McBobbin said:
Not to mention Nawab Mohammad Iftikhar Ali Khan Pataudi,PrincessFiona said:
Shame if David Gower couldn't have played for ENG though. And countless other examplesSillybilly said:
To my simple mind the ultimate test is being born there and I can just about stretch to having a parent from that country. After that it loses me I’m afraid.Chizz said:As long as rugby is allowed to set its own rules and it polices them properly, I don't have an issue with it. Dempsey has a Scottish grandfather and therefore, within the rules, he is allowed to represent Scotland. He has also represented another country, but hasn't played for them for three years - again, that's within the rules.
As long as there are rules in place and the rules are followed, then there shouldn't be an issue.
It does, however, shine a light on the notion of being "Scottish" or "English", and so on. No-one has a Scottish passport, or an English passport. So, is there a straightforward, testable definition of being "Scottish" or "English" that works?
Papua New Guinea - Geraint Jones
Italy - Ted Dexter
Hong Kong - Dermot Reeve
Denmark - Amjad Khan
Zambia - Phil Edmonds and Neal Radford
Germany - Donald Carr and Paul Terry
Northern Ireland - Joseph McMaster, Martin McCague and Boyd Rankin
Sixteen England cricketers were born in Wales, 17 in India and 19 in South Africa
And two were born in Trinidad and Tobago. Surprisingly (to me, at least) they were Lord Harris and Pelham Warner.1 -
Maybe England could keep 15 men on the field this week!Lincsaddick said:away from the topic for a bit .. Ireland are at home to England tomorrow (the pick of tomorrow's games) in their penultimate 'warm up' games prior to the World Cup .. both sides are pretty much at full strength .. SOOOOO should be a belter with Ireland hot favourites ..
Live on Amazon Prime around 17.00 hours0 -
In reality, the surprising number from that list is the Welsh one, because I'd have thought it would have been much, much higher than 16.CharltonKerry said:
Re the Welsh playing for England, don’t forget it is run by the the English and Welsh cricket board.Chizz said:
There are quite a few other obscure countries of birth among England cricketers.FSLN1 said:
My favourite is Freddie Brown, as far as I know the only person to win an England cap (and he was captain) having been born in Lima, Peru.McBobbin said:
Not to mention Nawab Mohammad Iftikhar Ali Khan Pataudi,PrincessFiona said:
Shame if David Gower couldn't have played for ENG though. And countless other examplesSillybilly said:
To my simple mind the ultimate test is being born there and I can just about stretch to having a parent from that country. After that it loses me I’m afraid.Chizz said:As long as rugby is allowed to set its own rules and it polices them properly, I don't have an issue with it. Dempsey has a Scottish grandfather and therefore, within the rules, he is allowed to represent Scotland. He has also represented another country, but hasn't played for them for three years - again, that's within the rules.
As long as there are rules in place and the rules are followed, then there shouldn't be an issue.
It does, however, shine a light on the notion of being "Scottish" or "English", and so on. No-one has a Scottish passport, or an English passport. So, is there a straightforward, testable definition of being "Scottish" or "English" that works?
Papua New Guinea - Geraint Jones
Italy - Ted Dexter
Hong Kong - Dermot Reeve
Denmark - Amjad Khan
Zambia - Phil Edmonds and Neal Radford
Germany - Donald Carr and Paul Terry
Northern Ireland - Joseph McMaster, Martin McCague and Boyd Rankin
Sixteen England cricketers were born in Wales, 17 in India and 19 in South Africa
And two were born in Trinidad and Tobago. Surprisingly (to me, at least) they were Lord Harris and Pelham Warner.1 -
And don’t forget our Colin Cowdrey, born in India. Wasn’t Basil D’Olivera mainly South African (off the top of my head)
There are quite a few other obscure countries of birth among England cricketers.FSLN1 said:
My favourite is Freddie Brown, as far as I know the only person to win an England cap (and he was captain) having been born in Lima, Peru.McBobbin said:
Not to mention Nawab Mohammad Iftikhar Ali Khan Pataudi,PrincessFiona said:
Shame if David Gower couldn't have played for ENG though. And countless other examplesSillybilly said:
To my simple mind the ultimate test is being born there and I can just about stretch to having a parent from that country. After that it loses me I’m afraid.Chizz said:As long as rugby is allowed to set its own rules and it polices them properly, I don't have an issue with it. Dempsey has a Scottish grandfather and therefore, within the rules, he is allowed to represent Scotland. He has also represented another country, but hasn't played for them for three years - again, that's within the rules.
As long as there are rules in place and the rules are followed, then there shouldn't be an issue.
It does, however, shine a light on the notion of being "Scottish" or "English", and so on. No-one has a Scottish passport, or an English passport. So, is there a straightforward, testable definition of being "Scottish" or "English" that works?
Papua New Guinea - Geraint Jones
Italy - Ted Dexter
Hong Kong - Dermot Reeve
Denmark - Amjad Khan
Zambia - Phil Edmonds and Neal Radford
Germany - Donald Carr and Paul Terry
Northern Ireland - Joseph McMaster, Martin McCague and Boyd Rankin
Sixteen England cricketers were born in Wales, 17 in India and 19 in South Africa
And two were born in Trinidad and Tobago. Surprisingly (to me, at least) they were Lord Harris and Pelham Warner.0 -
Derek Pringle - kenya
0 - Sponsored links:
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https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-v-nz-t20is-john-turner-on-the-fast-track-after-rapid-england-elevation-1392940
A topical cricket example is John Turner, a Saffer with a British passport being fast tracked into the England white ball team.
That's certainly how it was for his parents, who live in Johannesburg, South Africa, where Turner was born. He possesses a British passport through his mother, born in Zambia to English parents - her father was working for the British Government at the time.
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Blackheathen said:
And don’t forget our Colin Cowdrey, born in India. Wasn’t Basil D’Olivera mainly South African (off the top of my head)
There are quite a few other obscure countries of birth among England cricketers.FSLN1 said:
My favourite is Freddie Brown, as far as I know the only person to win an England cap (and he was captain) having been born in Lima, Peru.McBobbin said:
Not to mention Nawab Mohammad Iftikhar Ali Khan Pataudi,PrincessFiona said:
Shame if David Gower couldn't have played for ENG though. And countless other examplesSillybilly said:
To my simple mind the ultimate test is being born there and I can just about stretch to having a parent from that country. After that it loses me I’m afraid.Chizz said:As long as rugby is allowed to set its own rules and it polices them properly, I don't have an issue with it. Dempsey has a Scottish grandfather and therefore, within the rules, he is allowed to represent Scotland. He has also represented another country, but hasn't played for them for three years - again, that's within the rules.
As long as there are rules in place and the rules are followed, then there shouldn't be an issue.
It does, however, shine a light on the notion of being "Scottish" or "English", and so on. No-one has a Scottish passport, or an English passport. So, is there a straightforward, testable definition of being "Scottish" or "English" that works?
Papua New Guinea - Geraint Jones
Italy - Ted Dexter
Hong Kong - Dermot Reeve
Denmark - Amjad Khan
Zambia - Phil Edmonds and Neal Radford
Germany - Donald Carr and Paul Terry
Northern Ireland - Joseph McMaster, Martin McCague and Boyd Rankin
Sixteen England cricketers were born in Wales, 17 in India and 19 in South Africa
And two were born in Trinidad and Tobago. Surprisingly (to me, at least) they were Lord Harris and Pelham Warner.Chizz said:
In reality, the surprising number from that list is the Welsh one, because I'd have thought it would have been much, much higher than 16CharltonKerry said:
Re the Welsh playing for England, don’t forget it is run by the the English and Welsh cricket board.Chizz said:
There are quite a few other obscure countries of birth among England cricketers.FSLN1 said:
My favourite is Freddie Brown, as far as I know the only person to win an England cap (and he was captain) having been born in Lima, Peru.McBobbin said:
Not to mention Nawab Mohammad Iftikhar Ali Khan Pataudi,PrincessFiona said:
Shame if David Gower couldn't have played for ENG though. And countless other examplesSillybilly said:
To my simple mind the ultimate test is being born there and I can just about stretch to having a parent from that country. After that it loses me I’m afraid.Chizz said:As long as rugby is allowed to set its own rules and it polices them properly, I don't have an issue with it. Dempsey has a Scottish grandfather and therefore, within the rules, he is allowed to represent Scotland. He has also represented another country, but hasn't played for them for three years - again, that's within the rules.
As long as there are rules in place and the rules are followed, then there shouldn't be an issue.
It does, however, shine a light on the notion of being "Scottish" or "English", and so on. No-one has a Scottish passport, or an English passport. So, is there a straightforward, testable definition of being "Scottish" or "English" that works?
Papua New Guinea - Geraint Jones
Italy - Ted Dexter
Hong Kong - Dermot Reeve
Denmark - Amjad Khan
Zambia - Phil Edmonds and Neal Radford
Germany - Donald Carr and Paul Terry
Northern Ireland - Joseph McMaster, Martin McCague and Boyd Rankin
Sixteen England cricketers were born in Wales, 17 in India and 19 in South Africa
And two were born in Trinidad and Tobago. Surprisingly (to me, at least) they were Lord Harris and Pelham Warner.
Oh yes, MCC born in India not David Gower0 -
so pretty British thenkillerandflash said:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-v-nz-t20is-john-turner-on-the-fast-track-after-rapid-england-elevation-1392940
A topical cricket example is John Turner, a Saffer with a British passport being fast tracked into the England white ball team.
That's certainly how it was for his parents, who live in Johannesburg, South Africa, where Turner was born. He possesses a British passport through his mother, born in Zambia to English parents - her father was working for the British Government at the time.0
