Again, just to bring it back to JG - am i the only one that finds it incredibly concerning regarding his comments about discipline and professionalism and the culture of the club? I've only been a fan for 25 years ish but i've never heard consecutive managers discussing this in my time here.
Raylean in the bath with the players is just s rumour surely ?
@DOUCHER may be on to something, a while ago I heard third hand that Gallen had said about the urgent need for a forward and Garner said he could get by with what we had 🤷♂️
On a side note Gallen and MS are in each others pockets
Sounds like nonsense. Funny how it only turns up once the guy gets sacked.
Pushing all the bad decisions onto the ex-manager like people did with Adkins and then Jackson. Boring old record.
Blaming Garner for not wheeling and dealing when that's clearly not his job? Madness.
I’m not saying TS isn’t the major one at fault here but I remember loads on here saying a striker wasn’t the priority but a centre half or left back and when garner backed this up publicly I put him on the list of offenders - incredible I know but there were loads in here agreeing with him - as ridiculous as that may seem - y know who u are folks
The failure of Stockley to adapt to BG,s game is one cause, and then BG,s failure to adapt to Stockley in games is another. There are 8 -10 goals missing from out total.
There was no lack of effort from the players and he stuck to a slightly adapted version of his football philosophy. He needed time, decent players and support. He received none of these.
I thank him for his efforts and wish him every success in his future career.
I find it astonishing that after Bowyer (who led us to a play off final victory under Roland's ownership), Adkins (who has an impressive track record of success at this level), Jackson (a unifying club hero) and Garner (a widely respected, young progressive coach ) there are still some who think our constant failure has anything to do with managers.
@DOUCHER may be on to something, a while ago I heard third hand that Gallen had said about the urgent need for a forward and Garner said he could get by with what we had 🤷♂️
On a side note Gallen and MS are in each others pockets
Sounds like nonsense. Funny how it only turns up once the guy gets sacked.
Pushing all the bad decisions onto the ex-manager like people did with Adkins and then Jackson. Boring old record.
Blaming Garner for not wheeling and dealing when that's clearly not his job? Madness.
I’m not saying TS isn’t the major one at fault here but I remember loads on here saying a striker wasn’t the priority but a centre half or left back and when garner backed this up publicly I put him on the list of offenders - incredible I know but there were loads in here agreeing with him - as ridiculous as that may seem - y know who u are folks
Given our defensive frailties and the fact we've scored a decent number of goals from across the pitch, it's a bit of a bs point.
I do agree we needed to replace Washington, but many (you know who YOU are) said he was shite, not good enough and x, y or z could do his job.
I don’t think Garner could have done much better other than switch to 4-4-2 a little earlier than he did. But when he had his first 11 available we usually won most games. That short spell where we had Egbo and Sessegnon on each side, 4-4-2 with Leaburn fit up front we looked like a good team. Like Jackson, Garner did well when he had his first choice team available
The problem was the lack of backing so when missing a few players we were so much weaker (same as we were last season). I feared Garner would be a one-trick pony when he joined but tbf to him he’s tried nearly every formation and different personnel but I just think that once a few players are missing this squad is just very poor
There was no lack of effort from the players and he stuck to a slightly adapted version of his football philosophy. He needed time, decent players and support. He received none of these.
I thank him for his efforts and wish him every success in his future career.
I find it astonishing that after Bowyer (who led us to a play off final victory under Roland's ownership), Adkins (who has an impressive track record of success at this level), Jackson (a unifying club hero) and Garner (a widely respected, young progressive coach ) there are still some who think our constant failure has anything to do with managers.
Garner has not succeeded as a manager anywhere and his appointment smacked of desperation. You need a realist at this level who understands what's needed to get out of L1.
If we had a better owner we wouldn't have ended up with Garner. Garner might do well with all the right resources but it's all a bit pie in the sky at this level.
I agree with much of the OS, but do think sticking to one style of play means we are easy to work out.
By all means setup to play passing football, but allow the freedom to play a long ball, a diagonal ball etc. as these can unbalance teams. The problem with Garner's passing philosophy was that if the passing all takes place in front of the opposing team, then it is easy to defend.
For possession football to be effective, it requires players with movement, quicker passing, one twos, and the ability to play trickier passes, which have a higher risk of losing the ball. What happened is we became so committed to passing football and keeping the ball, we lost the thrust to create chances.
The other issue is defense, effectively we ended up with a budget version of Roberto Martinez, some nice passing football and a very brittle defense.
Its very clear that he was hired for us to play a certain way - he made it very clear (to us at least) that this would take time, a certain number of transfer windows - changing an entire football philosophy - He was given a transfer budget of zero, and signed players he was familiar with and had already bought into what he had been trying to do previously. It was a way of playing that was basically foreign to the players he was joining. There has already been question marks about the culture of the club, disciplinary and attitude wise (which he was still trying to combat even up to his last game based on his last interview)
It became increasingly clear that the players he inherited were not either good or suited enough to this philosophy. Injuries to probably the 3 or 4 players that bought into it and had the ability to do what he wanted made things even worse.
Can anybody explain what else he could have done based on his remit? I can't.
He should have played a system that suited the players he had. I don’t really agree with his sacking, but watching us trying to get League One duffers playing like Manchester City was crazy.
That was my view from the get-go. Holland scored a goal with 21 passes including the keeper touching the ball twice in the best move so far in this WC. Agree with you that to think Charlton with 3rd tier players could ever play like that is deluded. Being able to pass and move should be mandatory for pro footballers and doesn't mean you have to play hoof ball with aimless long kicks but playing long diagonal balls in behind advancing opposition full backs isn't the same as hoof ball, you would believe that the ability to play short and long and try to control the tempo of a match was the best way to go.
Garnerball turned everybody in the team, from Stockley to the goalkeeper, into part of an extended midfield. As a consequence, we lost the edge in front of the goals at both ends of the pitch. We can pass a ball like we mean it and hit a sixpence the other side of the pitch but shooting at goal or clearing and feeding the centre forward when he has a bit of space from anywhere over 5 yards away is mostly an alien concept
@DOUCHER may be on to something, a while ago I heard third hand that Gallen had said about the urgent need for a forward and Garner said he could get by with what we had 🤷♂️
On a side note Gallen and MS are in each others pockets
Sounds like nonsense. Funny how it only turns up once the guy gets sacked.
Pushing all the bad decisions onto the ex-manager like people did with Adkins and then Jackson. Boring old record.
again - know where you're coming from - but sometimes you have to look at what actually happened - Washington left us very early in the window - at the time, we weren't sure about Miles - who else did he have? we made many reinforcements - all needed, but if we made it a priority we could have got SOMEONE in surely? The fact that we picked out defenders and at best attacking midfielders suggests that JG thought he could do a Man city of last year job. I don't know if that was JG's decision, but the players he chose were players he already knew at Swindon - he didn't pick a striker. it seems very plausible to me that he overestimated the ability of Fraser, Payne, CBT, DJ - these are league 2 standard players being asked to win league one games.
Manic,surely it BG & not JG it’s in every post now…it’s winding me up…😂😂,sorry 🤪
@DOUCHER may be on to something, a while ago I heard third hand that Gallen had said about the urgent need for a forward and Garner said he could get by with what we had 🤷♂️
On a side note Gallen and MS are in each others pockets
Sounds like nonsense. Funny how it only turns up once the guy gets sacked.
Pushing all the bad decisions onto the ex-manager like people did with Adkins and then Jackson. Boring old record.
again - know where you're coming from - but sometimes you have to look at what actually happened - Washington left us very early in the window - at the time, we weren't sure about Miles - who else did he have? we made many reinforcements - all needed, but if we made it a priority we could have got SOMEONE in surely? The fact that we picked out defenders and at best attacking midfielders suggests that JG thought he could do a Man city of last year job. I don't know if that was JG's decision, but the players he chose were players he already knew at Swindon - he didn't pick a striker. it seems very plausible to me that he overestimated the ability of Fraser, Payne, CBT, DJ - these are league 2 standard players being asked to win league one games.
Manic,surely it BG & not JG it’s in every post now…it’s winding me up…😂😂,sorry 🤪
Not sure he did a huge amount wrong. He was sold a pup and hugely let down when it came to the squad.
The playing side is wafer thin and the off field infrastructure a total mess.
Until the off field issues are addressed managers will continue to fail. The recruitment model is a joke, headed up by someone who has zero experience and no track record in the area that is the fundamental problem.
The lack of CEO is also a huge gap.
Until TS accepts he needs a CEO and revises the recruitment structure to give the manager/coach some level of autonomy the club will tailspin towards league 2.
IMO TS is far too arrogant to change anything and the only answer is for him to "sell" and clear off asap.
he couldn't motivate the players often enough for long enough .. he persisted in playing formations that did not suit his available players .. ;lastly and most significantly, his persistent griping and moaning about the owner, however justified, was no longer tolerated
2006 - 2022 Iain Dowie, Les Reed, Alan Pardew, Phil Parkinson, Keith Peacock, Chris Powell, Jose Riga ( twice) Bob Peeters, Damian Matthews/Ben Roberts, Guy Luzon, Carol Fry, Russel Slade, Kevin Nugent, Karl Robinson
,Lee Bowyer, Johnnie Jackson ( twice) Nigel Adkins, Ben Garner
2006 - 2022 Iain Dowie, Les Reed, Alan Pardew, Phil Parkinson, Keith Peacock, Chris Powell, Jose Riga ( twice) Bob Peeters, Damian Matthews/Ben Roberts, Guy Luzon, Carol Fry, Russel Slade, Kevin Nugent, Karl Robinson
,Lee Bowyer, Johnnie Jackson ( twice) Nigel Adkins, Ben Garner
Thats modern Football now sadly... Think nearly all clubs had a period where they had barely any Managers in their history, with the birth of the Premier League, and the introduction of high stakes money into the game, the Manager turnover has rocketed
@DOUCHER may be on to something, a while ago I heard third hand that Gallen had said about the urgent need for a forward and Garner said he could get by with what we had 🤷♂️
On a side note Gallen and MS are in each others pockets
Sounds like nonsense. Funny how it only turns up once the guy gets sacked.
Pushing all the bad decisions onto the ex-manager like people did with Adkins and then Jackson. Boring old record.
Blaming Garner for not wheeling and dealing when that's clearly not his job? Madness.
I’m not saying TS isn’t the major one at fault here but I remember loads on here saying a striker wasn’t the priority but a centre half or left back and when garner backed this up publicly I put him on the list of offenders - incredible I know but there were loads in here agreeing with him - as ridiculous as that may seem - y know who u are folks
Given our defensive frailties and the fact we've scored a decent number of goals from across the pitch, it's a bit of a bs point.
I do agree we needed to replace Washington, but many (you know who YOU are) said he was shite, not good enough and x, y or z could do his job.
i think i'm right in saying we view football differently dazzler - i'm happy with that
He mistook Conor McGrandles for a footballer Despite dozens of games where it was obvious to all that our defenders are way off the tippy tappy bollocks, he insisted on that as square one of his sole plan, it never worked and created more problems than the opposition ever did, self harm pure and simple. Sticking with it so long is unforgivable. All talk of "Sandgaard's way of playing" is childish bullshit, Garner was responsible for selection and tactics. The pool from which he could select was shallow indeed but that should make things easier, not harder. Horses for courses and he couldn't or wouldn't accept that. It's a results business and too many of ours were worse than they needed to be. He's not the only one at fault but his fault is large.
Disappointed how his reign has ended. Thought he could have been a good manager for us but he wasn't backed and didn't do enough with what he did have.
@DOUCHER may be on to something, a while ago I heard third hand that Gallen had said about the urgent need for a forward and Garner said he could get by with what we had 🤷♂️
On a side note Gallen and MS are in each others pockets
Sounds like nonsense. Funny how it only turns up once the guy gets sacked.
Pushing all the bad decisions onto the ex-manager like people did with Adkins and then Jackson. Boring old record.
again - know where you're coming from - but sometimes you have to look at what actually happened - Washington left us very early in the window - at the time, we weren't sure about Miles - who else did he have? we made many reinforcements - all needed, but if we made it a priority we could have got SOMEONE in surely? The fact that we picked out defenders and at best attacking midfielders suggests that JG thought he could do a Man city of last year job. I don't know if that was JG's decision, but the players he chose were players he already knew at Swindon - he didn't pick a striker. it seems very plausible to me that he overestimated the ability of Fraser, Payne, CBT, DJ - these are league 2 standard players being asked to win league one games.
Manic,surely it BG & not JG it’s in every post now…it’s winding me up…😂😂,sorry 🤪
Comments
Just like Adkins and Jackson before.
I do agree we needed to replace Washington, but many (you know who YOU are) said he was shite, not good enough and x, y or z could do his job.
If we had a better owner we wouldn't have ended up with Garner. Garner might do well with all the right resources but it's all a bit pie in the sky at this level.
God knows who TS will appoint next...
By all means setup to play passing football, but allow the freedom to play a long ball, a diagonal ball etc. as these can unbalance teams.
The problem with Garner's passing philosophy was that if the passing all takes place in front of the opposing team, then it is easy to defend.
For possession football to be effective, it requires players with movement, quicker passing, one twos, and the ability to play trickier passes, which have a higher risk of losing the ball.
What happened is we became so committed to passing football and keeping the ball, we lost the thrust to create chances.
The other issue is defense, effectively we ended up with a budget version of Roberto Martinez, some nice passing football and a very brittle defense.
That was my view from the get-go.
Holland scored a goal with 21 passes including the keeper touching the ball twice in the best move so far in this WC.
Agree with you that to think Charlton with 3rd tier players could ever play like that is deluded. Being able to pass and move should be mandatory for pro footballers and doesn't mean you have to play hoof ball with aimless long kicks but playing long diagonal balls in behind advancing opposition full backs isn't the same as hoof ball, you would believe that the ability to play short and long and try to control the tempo of a match was the best way to go.
Or a target man who doesn't win headers?
Or Sam Lavelle?
A lesson learned and good luck to him in the future
1991 - 2006
Alan Curbishley
2006 - 2022
Iain Dowie,
Les Reed,
Alan Pardew,
Phil Parkinson,
Keith Peacock,
Chris Powell,
Jose Riga ( twice)
Bob Peeters,
Damian Matthews/Ben Roberts,
Guy Luzon,
Carol Fry,
Russel Slade,
Kevin Nugent,
Karl Robinson
Johnnie Jackson ( twice)
Nigel Adkins,
Ben Garner
Like you say, cant put my finger on why...
Despite dozens of games where it was obvious to all that our defenders are way off the tippy tappy bollocks, he insisted on that as square one of his sole plan, it never worked and created more problems than the opposition ever did, self harm pure and simple. Sticking with it so long is unforgivable.
All talk of "Sandgaard's way of playing" is childish bullshit, Garner was responsible for selection and tactics. The pool from which he could select was shallow indeed but that should make things easier, not harder. Horses for courses and he couldn't or wouldn't accept that.
It's a results business and too many of ours were worse than they needed to be. He's not the only one at fault but his fault is large.
Says it all.
Disappointed how his reign has ended. Thought he could have been a good manager for us but he wasn't backed and didn't do enough with what he did have.
On to the next victim.