I hope Holden works out for us. He seems to exude class. Interestingly as a northerner he gets our club culture.Many on here felt that Adkins and Robinson didn't.
In terms of Garner Iirc didn't he also have a personal tragedy of losing a child in his time at Bristol Rovers?For both men this must be an incredibly difficult situation to come back from.
Garner was clearly missold the job by Thomas and wasn't given a fair crack of the whip despite being headhunted by hard shot Martin.
My feeling is always that a manager needs a clear two years to build their own squad before you can fairly assess them. I hope Dean is given next season to stamp his authority on the team and then the season after before any consideration about his future is made.We need stability.
I used to be proud that for around 25 years we had two managers. Lawrence and Curbishley ( with Gritt for some of the time). It is not coincidental that this coincided with success on the pitch including 12 years of top flight football.
What does this really mean? Is "our club culture" so different to any other clubs?
No one gives any manager stick for not "getting it" when they are winning. Robinson, Bowyer, Jackson, Adkins and Garner got praise for being refreshing and like a breath of fresh air, mainly because they were all so different from each other.
Ganer, especially, went from "at least the football is better" to "stop fancying around with it". Why? Because we didn't win enough games. Robinson went from being "honest" to "making excuses", for the same reason.
Football fans, and by extension clubs, are all the same. Win enough games and your a hero, don't and even if your a club legend the fans will turn on you. It has always been thus, at every club.
For me it is how he has related to our fans.
Last night when I was on the train he was happily talking to all of us. It was his remark about the similarity of Salford and SE London which prompted me to make the comment. I really feels he 'gets' us.
I think that not only was Garner mis sold the job, but like Adkins, he was put in a straight jacket by Sandgaard where he had to play a certain way whether it suited the players or not. At our level, you need to be adaptable and pragmatic and whilst you can feel sorry for them, and I do, they signed up to those conditions. Bowyer had freedom to decide how to set us up and look at what we needed and Holden has this too from what I can see.
My message to Sandgaard is that football is not the complicated game you think you know all about, as an owner you bring the right manager in and let them get on with it. The difficulty is bringing the right manager in and I don't believe you can find that out in an interview, simply you look at their experience and then judge them in the job. The last bit is important as they may not have in all cases a lot of experience. That requires a bit of luck, maybe a lot of luck, and I think we have got lucky with Holden. It is now a case of supporting him as best we can and see where it takes us.
I think that not only was Garner mis sold the job, but like Adkins, he was put in a straight jacket by Sandgaard where he had to play a certain way whether it suited the players or not. At our level, you need to be adaptable and pragmatic and whilst you can feel sorry for them, and I do, they signed up to those conditions. Bowyer had freedom to decide how to set us up and look at what we needed and Holden has this too from what I can see.
My message to Sandgaard is that football is not the complicated game you think you know all about, as an owner you bring the right manager in and let them get on with it. The difficulty is bringing the right manager in and I don't believe you can find that out in an interview, simply you look at their experience and then judge them in the job. The last bit is important as they may not have in all cases a lot of experience. That requires a bit of luck, maybe a lot of luck, and I think we have got lucky with Holden. It is now a case of supporting him as best we can and see where it takes us.
I don't think that's true though. Garner was chosen BECAUSE he wants to play football that way. That's how his Swindon team played.
I think that not only was Garner mis sold the job, but like Adkins, he was put in a straight jacket by Sandgaard where he had to play a certain way whether it suited the players or not. At our level, you need to be adaptable and pragmatic and whilst you can feel sorry for them, and I do, they signed up to those conditions. Bowyer had freedom to decide how to set us up and look at what we needed and Holden has this too from what I can see.
My message to Sandgaard is that football is not the complicated game you think you know all about, as an owner you bring the right manager in and let them get on with it. The difficulty is bringing the right manager in and I don't believe you can find that out in an interview, simply you look at their experience and then judge them in the job. The last bit is important as they may not have in all cases a lot of experience. That requires a bit of luck, maybe a lot of luck, and I think we have got lucky with Holden. It is now a case of supporting him as best we can and see where it takes us.
I don't think that's true though. Garner was chosen BECAUSE he wants to play football that way. That's how his Swindon team played.
I think that aspect of what you say is true but I think he expected more support in terms of bringing players in that went with it. I feel for him as I don't think it was his fault we struggled. I do recall him saying when he first got the job that it is the only way he thinks football should be played which I said at the time I thought it was bollocks. But I put that down to his enthusiasm for the job until the plug seemed to have been pulled during the window.
Interestingly at Exeter we spent a lot of time playing the ball out from the back or passing it across the back four in a very garner ball way.
We rarely hoofed it
Garner ball was based on being patient with lots of sideways passing whereas Holdens prefers more direct, forward passing which suits the players we have. I felt we only move it sideways to slow the game down, not wait for openings.
Agreed with the lack of hoof ball which is always good to see!
Managers always talk about building a culture, but Holden understands that clubs have them already. It is the people and experiences throughout history built into the very core of the club. A manager can change the style, the mental state, and the short-term future of a club, but the culture is the soul.
Holden seems to understand we don't want to be impressed with the latest jargon or platitudes, we want honesty and results. I like what I have seen so far of Holden, his empathy (born of personal loss) and his ability to laugh at himself make him part of our culture. He may not pass the test of time but as a man I respect him and hope he stays with us for a lengthy period.
If you can play the ball around at the back, and I mean if opponents allow you to, there is nothing wrong with it, especially if you are winning. Exeter allowed us to and they looked dangerous and direct when they had possession so it made sense to break that up and frustrate them. I must admit, I thought we should go all out for the third because I have seen that when we try to close the game we generally fail, but Exeter had very liitle in terms of goalscoring opportunities in the second half and we had more.
Our second was a great goal but Ness had the time and space to pick out the great pass he made. Holden knew the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition and it is a credit to what he is doing here that the players allowed him to have such a game plan. No way would we have won that after they pulled a goal back a couple of months ago. No way could we go out in the second half with a team on the up with a negativeish strategy and get away with it. We didn't get away with anything as we did spoil the game from their perspective.
We remember Garner had a preferred way of playing and, more or often than not, stuck to that.
Holden likes his team to mix things up ....... play the ball around in safer areas but direct when it's needed. We're moving the ball quicker and less risk of defensive cock up when pressed.
It's also evident that players more uncomfortable on the ball under pressure, have been allowed to simplify and clear their lines if necessary. Ryan Inniss is one example where he's generally much more effective and confident now.
Interestingly at Exeter we spent a lot of time playing the ball out from the back or passing it across the back four in a very garner ball way.
We rarely hoofed it
Garner ball was based on being patient with lots of sideways passing whereas Holdens prefers more direct, forward passing which suits the players we have. I felt we only move it sideways to slow the game down, not wait for openings.
Agreed with the lack of hoof ball which is always good to see!
And both of our goals came from quick, direct forward passes
I doubt he will be their no. 1 choice but if the terriers were to come calling it would be a real test of his loyalty to CAFC. He says all the right things about us but if a job is offered with a longer contract, closer to home and in a higher division it will be interesting to see if he sticks or twists. My instinct says twist.
Whoever our owners are, they need to tie him down to a decent contract....now! He has impressed me to date and 12 pts out of 15 + that superb performance at Old Trafford, surely earns him at least a 18 month contract?
Whoever our owners are, they need to tie him down to a decent contract....now! He has impressed me to date and 12 pts out of 15 + that superb performance at Old Trafford, surely earns him at least a 18 month contract?
You’d think so, but the same would apply to our last three managers after five or six games. For me the difference is that Dean seems more flexible than those, happier to mix up the style of play to suit opponents.
My gut feeling tells me give him a decent contract, and stick with him, just like Arsenal stuck with Arteta, despite his wobbly start.
[That’s assuming we hit a sticky patch in the next few weeks].
We remember Garner had a preferred way of playing and, more or often than not, stuck to that.
Holden likes his team to mix things up ....... play the ball around in safer areas but direct when it's needed. We're moving the ball quicker and less risk of defensive cock up when pressed.
It's also evident that players more uncomfortable on the ball under pressure, have been allowed to simplify and clear their lines if necessary. Ryan Inniss is one example where he's generally much more effective and confident now.
It's common sense at this level.
Also, there is nothing wrong with sometimes keeping possession at the back. The problem with Garner was that he turned it into a principle which meant that even when our defenders were being pressed they were still supposed to do it. This led, inevitably given the level of our defenders, to losing the ball in very dangerous positions-and goals. The improvement of Inniss since Garner left shows how stupid Garner's approach was.
He has impressed in nearly all areas, communications, calibrating our squad and team into game winners rather than drawers, connecting with the fan base. Those clubs that properly do their recruitment homework are bound to be thinking ‘we’d like some of that’.
It’s written in the stars, we’re Charlton, just when we get a manager that we sense may be as good for us as us for them…
Let’s see, but now understanding what life has left him and his family having to deal with, I would not begrudge him having the best of breaks and luck for the rest of their lives.
As others have said, the sensible thing would be to lock him down now, but am not holding my breath.
Holden has experience of a lot of short term experiences and a lot of moving around. Whilst I want footballing stability at Charlton, if he were to go to Huddersfield it would take him closer to home, and fit with the kind of life he’s had so far. We shall see what plays out.
Holden has experience of a lot of short term experiences and a lot of moving around. Whilst I want footballing stability at Charlton, if he were to go to Huddersfield it would take him closer to home, and fit with the kind of life he’s had so far. We shall see what plays out.
Be interested to see after the interview he gave last week saying he had fallen for the club, area and working class people. Were these words genuine or will he leave
I think Holden can have high regard for Charlton yet still justifiably take another job. He is contracted here until the end of the season, but another club might offer him two and a half years.
Comments
Last night when I was on the train he was happily talking to all of us. It was his remark about the similarity of Salford and SE London which prompted me to make the comment. I really feels he 'gets' us.
My message to Sandgaard is that football is not the complicated game you think you know all about, as an owner you bring the right manager in and let them get on with it. The difficulty is bringing the right manager in and I don't believe you can find that out in an interview, simply you look at their experience and then judge them in the job. The last bit is important as they may not have in all cases a lot of experience. That requires a bit of luck, maybe a lot of luck, and I think we have got lucky with Holden. It is now a case of supporting him as best we can and see where it takes us.
I don't think that's true though. Garner was chosen BECAUSE he wants to play football that way. That's how his Swindon team played.
We rarely hoofed it
Agreed with the lack of hoof ball which is always good to see!
Our second was a great goal but Ness had the time and space to pick out the great pass he made. Holden knew the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition and it is a credit to what he is doing here that the players allowed him to have such a game plan. No way would we have won that after they pulled a goal back a couple of months ago. No way could we go out in the second half with a team on the up with a negativeish strategy and get away with it. We didn't get away with anything as we did spoil the game from their perspective.
Holden likes his team to mix things up ....... play the ball around in safer areas but direct when it's needed.
We're moving the ball quicker and less risk of defensive cock up when pressed.
It's also evident that players more uncomfortable on the ball under pressure, have been allowed to simplify and clear their lines if necessary.
Ryan Inniss is one example where he's generally much more effective and confident now.
It's common sense at this level.
On the shortlist alongside Chris Wilder and Leam Richardson
Offer me a contract or I could be poached.
The improvement of Inniss since Garner left shows how stupid Garner's approach was.
Let’s see, but now understanding what life has left him and his family having to deal with, I would not begrudge him having the best of breaks and luck for the rest of their lives.
Whilst I want footballing stability at Charlton, if he were to go to Huddersfield it would take him closer to home, and fit with the kind of life he’s had so far.
We shall see what plays out.
He is contracted here until the end of the season, but another club might offer him two and a half years.