The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
It's not that simple though is it. A properly proven manager with experience and a good record is never going to take a short term contract at a basket case of a club like this. They don't need to, the risk vs reward is not worth it.
And until we know if someone, anyone, is actually going to complete a takeover, let alone who that someone is and their relative wealth and experience, no one will be offering the kind of money to tempt a proven name manager in.
This is fair enough but there MUST be somebody out there more suited. Fifty games on a CV when we were 3 or four points off the bottom four is not good enough. There cannot be any Charlton fan who was happy when they found out Holden was coming in.
But is anyone actually more suited? An experienced manager would know that going back to basics and getting the team spirit back... which is what he's doing anyway.
I was not very impressed at the time and he's far from proven but I genuinely don't think that in our current situation there's any (realistic) options that would have done any better.
I would have been very sceptical about anyone Thomas appointed on his own. Holden wouldn't have been my choice, that's probably a good thing because I would have given it to Mick Mccarthy!
Although some people won't ever be happy if it's not someone from the past, someone who "knows the club".
Are you just on the wind up Elfsborg? All our best recent managers have had no experience in management whatsoever and lots of our worst have had loads.
Holden’s only real previous managerial role saw him have a better win record than the (experienced) Nigel Pearson who took over from him.
He wasn’t anyone’s first choice, mainly because of the apathy in the club at the time, but he’s made an excellent start and has got that team playing really well already.
I really like how level headed he seems. Not too high for a win, not too down for a defeat. Just look for the positives and areas to work on and move on to the next.
No, I am not.
I have nothing against the fella and hope he does well, but stand by what I have previously posted.
Fair enough buddy.
Like with the players, it’s what he does here and not before that matters most so fingers crossed he keeps up the promising start. 👍
Manager + tools provided ordinarily = fair assessment and finishing standing. I think the tools provided bit has totally and royally fcuked up any of our previous managers chances regardless of their capabilities.
I am convinced Garner would have been more successful if he had been provided sufficient funds and a balance in his squad to play the style of football the owners knew we would be getting.
So far Holden is getting a tune out of the limited squad we have, so credit to him!
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Any names ?
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.
Harris having a blinder at Gillingham isn’t he?
Agreed but let us have the opinion of our friend @MillwallFan Harris is well respected there.
He is in temperament a northern bowyer and without major funding (now and in bowyers time as opposed to powells at least initially) that is all we have to get the best out of what you have. He may be fortunate in being with certain players who are hitting their best form, but he may be a reason behind that as well.
Like with many things, he may have joined at the right time, but who cares?
Mark Warburton. Darren Ferguson only on a contract till the end of the season. Nathan Jones should be targeted as he will be on dodgy ground if Southampton drop.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Any names ?
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.
Yes because those three are definitely not to laugh in the face of anyone trying to get them go join a struggling club run by an idiot with no clue about what money is available, or for that matter whether there IS any money.
If you have any serious expectations of anyone near that level joining us right now then you have got to reevaluate the situation.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Any names ?
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
It's not that simple though is it. A properly proven manager with experience and a good record is never going to take a short term contract at a basket case of a club like this. They don't need to, the risk vs reward is not worth it.
And until we know if someone, anyone, is actually going to complete a takeover, let alone who that someone is and their relative wealth and experience, no one will be offering the kind of money to tempt a proven name manager in.
This is fair enough but there MUST be somebody out there more suited. Fifty games on a CV when we were 3 or four points off the bottom four is not good enough. There cannot be any Charlton fan who was happy when they found out Holden was coming in.
But is anyone actually more suited? An experienced manager would know that going back to basics and getting the team spirit back... which is what he's doing anyway.
I was not very impressed at the time and he's far from proven but I genuinely don't think that in our current situation there's any (realistic) options that would have done any better.
I would have been very sceptical about anyone Thomas appointed on his own. Holden wouldn't have been my choice, that's probably a good thing because I would have given it to Mick Mccarthy!
Although some people won't ever be happy if it's not someone from the past, someone who "knows the club".
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Any names ?
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Any names ?
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.
Warnock has retired about ten times.
And only come out of it for high paying jobs... Not here.
You have to be reasonable and think about who we are now. We are not an attractive proposition anymore to managers.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Any names ?
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.
Warnock has retired about ten times.
True but he wasn't in his mid-70s then. Plus at his age you'd think he'd only do it for a short term high paying job (say 3-4 months to try and save a PL club).
He's certainly not taking a league one job on what we'd pay.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Any names ?
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.
Warnock has retired about ten times.
And only come out of it for high paying jobs... Not here.
You have to be reasonable and think about who we are now. We are not an attractive proposition anymore to managers.
Agreed, but Jones went back to Luton.
Warburton I believe made his money in the city before getting into football. Lampard and Gerrard would have taken a hit when coming out of playing. Although not for one moment am I thinking of them.
The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did. My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners. Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.
He deserves a chance.
Rubbish.
Look at his managerial history.
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Any names ?
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.
Warnock I’ll give you, but no chance of that. Of other two. One is yesterdays man and the other is pony.
No idea if Holden is the right choice long term as I know very little about him, but based on the 4 games so.far he has more of an idea what to do in this league with this group of players than Garner did.
No idea if Holden is the right choice long term as I know very little about him, but based on the 4 games so.far he has more of an idea what to do in this league with this group of players than Garner did.
I liked Garners ethos but without the right players, certainly better than what we’ve got, it was always doomed to failure, especially without compromise. He lacked flexibility in his approach to make things work. I think Holden is a pragmatist. Seems to have the authority to manage and has already made big decisions. With our squad I think horses for courses is the only way forward.
Holden played most of his career in the lower leagues. He knows what it's about. Garners experience was from training manuals, courses, and coaching, not managing. he didn't have a plan b and didn't stop non footballing centre backs from trying to play football. Holden seems to have gone back to basics. I'm favouring Holden over garner at this stage but Holden hasn't had enough time yet for an equal comparison to be made.
No idea if Holden is the right choice long term as I know very little about him, but based on the 4 games so.far he has more of an idea what to do in this league with this group of players than Garner did.
I liked Garners ethos but without the right players, certainly better than what we’ve got, it was always doomed to failure, especially without compromise. He lacked flexibility in his approach to make things work. I think Holden is a pragmatist. Seems to have the authority to manage and has already made big decisions. With our squad I think horses for courses is the only way forward.
Garner's ethos was to try and pass neeedlsey and remained possession at all costs. So not needed at this level particularly with the layers we have.
3 jobs now in Management, 2 of them with poor winning statistics
I wouldn't write Garner off in quite such a cavalier manner as some of you are. When we were good under him, we were very good. Perhaps he didn't quite tailor it to our players, but he did hit on a 4-4-2 with Leaburn, Fraser/Dobbo and Inniss/EOC as the spine, only for injuries to rob him of it
I wouldn't write Garner off in quite such a cavalier manner as some of you are. When we were good under him, we were very good. Perhaps he didn't quite tailor it to our players, but he did hit on a 4-4-2 with Leaburn, Fraser/Dobbo and Inniss/EOC as the spine, only for injuries to rob him of it
I think Garner has a higher ceiling than League one. At the right club at right time with time and money given by an astute chairman he can probably build himself up into a very good manager indeed.
However, I'm not sure that this was the right club and it certainly was NOT the right time. Sandgaard lacks the patience, knowledge and quite likely the funds to have a progressive coach build over a period of years. If Garner had had proper backing like Powell's promotion season I've no doubt we'd be in a better place with a better squad, but that's not what happened.
Comments
Like with the players, it’s what he does here and not before that matters most so fingers crossed he keeps up the promising start. 👍
Harris is well respected there.
Darren Ferguson only on a contract till the end of the season.
Nathan Jones should be targeted as he will be on dodgy ground if Southampton drop.
If you have any serious expectations of anyone near that level joining us right now then you have got to reevaluate the situation.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.
I've no doubt if those 2 had been fit all season we'd be a lot better off and chasing the play offs.
You have to be reasonable and think about who we are now. We are not an attractive proposition anymore to managers.
He's certainly not taking a league one job on what we'd pay.
Warburton I believe made his money in the city before getting into football. Lampard and Gerrard would have taken a hit when coming out of playing. Although not for one moment am I thinking of them.
https://theathletic.com/4067923/2023/01/08/dean-holden-charlton-manager/?source=twitteruk
3 jobs now in Management, 2 of them with poor winning statistics
However, I'm not sure that this was the right club and it certainly was NOT the right time. Sandgaard lacks the patience, knowledge and quite likely the funds to have a progressive coach build over a period of years. If Garner had had proper backing like Powell's promotion season I've no doubt we'd be in a better place with a better squad, but that's not what happened.