Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

VAR decision at the Spurs game last night

I think the authroities need to revise the offisde law specifically for VAR if they are going to use it. I know the argument against doing this is you shouldn't change the laws for one level and keep for another but last night's decision was the worst yet and it goes against the spirit of why the law is there disallowing a goal due to one or two mms. I don't care about Spurs but if this technology is going to be extended, as it will be, there needs to be a tolerance of an inch or two in the software in favour of the attacking side.

It felt very unsatisfactory to me last night and still does this morning.
«1

Comments

  • Just heard on radio they are changing it to a semi-automated system for offside for the World Cup. 

    I’ve not seen the incident yet but if it took so long and was so marginal then it feels v wrong. I’ll take a penalty for an incident outside the box in return for keeping the unbridled joy of a last second winner - such as Bauer at Wembley. 
  • edited October 2022
    Clear and obvious could be a starting point to find a solution but I believe a solution has to be found rather than a shrug of the shoulders. It has happened to Spurs so any change will have an impact on future incidents which could even potentially work against us! Spurs are irrelevant in this, the problem that has been highlighted isn't.
  • I think the authroities need to revise the offisde law specifically for VAR if they are going to use it. I know the argument against doing this is you shouldn't change the laws for one level and keep for another but last night's decision was the worst yet and it goes against the spirit of why the law is there disallowing a goal due to one or two mms. I don't care about Spurs but if this technology is going to be extended, as it will be, there needs to be a tolerance of an inch or two in the software in favour of the attacking side.

    It felt very unsatisfactory to me last night and still does this morning.
    There already is a tolerance of 5cm. That is an inch or two! I still thought last night was wrong and the still picture they showed us was most unsatisfactory. The reason for the tolerance is all to do with frames per second on the recording. Add in speed of movement (and possible pixelation) and there could be a choice of five frames for when the ball is actually kicked/headed. 
    Whatever, last night, I was pretty sure the ball was not hit forward and offside was therefore not even a topic of consideration. 
  • That felt beautiful to me , that sick feeling as a couple of my kids furiously told me spurs were winning(I’ve brainwashed them they hate spurs to, too many of their fans at school give it ) and then the delay and the joy of them telling me it may be disallowed, then  it’d been disallowed… then I had to check with them did the spurs fans and players celebrate and go mad when they (thought) they had scored  , yes …. And that made it all the better .
    love it 
    then mrs told me off cos there was a sad looking spurs youngster on the telly ffs
    i then reminded her the state of our 4 little cnuts faces after we had to endure genuine utter shit and torture at The Valley the night before and that the spurs kid doesn’t know what real pain and shitness is 

    so nope,  long may Var make football fans suffer 

    The only consistent joy we get with how pathetic our club currently is is the suffering of other football fans and long may it continue .

    let’s face it spurs are gonna be through anyway , we’re gonna be shit anyway , so just those small snippets of enjoyment are what keep us alive football wise 


  • cafcfan said:
    I think the authroities need to revise the offisde law specifically for VAR if they are going to use it. I know the argument against doing this is you shouldn't change the laws for one level and keep for another but last night's decision was the worst yet and it goes against the spirit of why the law is there disallowing a goal due to one or two mms. I don't care about Spurs but if this technology is going to be extended, as it will be, there needs to be a tolerance of an inch or two in the software in favour of the attacking side.

    It felt very unsatisfactory to me last night and still does this morning.
    There already is a tolerance of 5cm. That is an inch or two! I still thought last night was wrong and the still picture they showed us was most unsatisfactory. The reason for the tolerance is all to do with frames per second on the recording. Add in speed of movement (and possible pixelation) and there could be a choice of five frames for when the ball is actually kicked/headed. 
    Whatever, last night, I was pretty sure the ball was not hit forward and offside was therefore not even a topic of consideration. 
    The direction of the pass is not relevant in the decision making around offside as far as I’m aware. 
  • edited October 2022
    I thought the ball only went forward from the defenders touch, so therefore not offside (or is there now a stupid rule where the defenders touch has to be deliberate?). I have only seen the replay once tho so maybe need to watch again.
  • cafcfan said:
    I think the authroities need to revise the offisde law specifically for VAR if they are going to use it. I know the argument against doing this is you shouldn't change the laws for one level and keep for another but last night's decision was the worst yet and it goes against the spirit of why the law is there disallowing a goal due to one or two mms. I don't care about Spurs but if this technology is going to be extended, as it will be, there needs to be a tolerance of an inch or two in the software in favour of the attacking side.

    It felt very unsatisfactory to me last night and still does this morning.
    There already is a tolerance of 5cm. That is an inch or two! I still thought last night was wrong and the still picture they showed us was most unsatisfactory. The reason for the tolerance is all to do with frames per second on the recording. Add in speed of movement (and possible pixelation) and there could be a choice of five frames for when the ball is actually kicked/headed. 
    Whatever, last night, I was pretty sure the ball was not hit forward and offside was therefore not even a topic of consideration. 
    The direction of the pass is not relevant in the decision making around offside as far as I’m aware. 

    Yes, I thought that although I also think it once was. It does seem like it should be.
  • I think the authroities need to revise the offisde law specifically for VAR if they are going to use it. I know the argument against doing this is you shouldn't change the laws for ome level and keep for another but last night's decision was the worst yet and it goes against the spirit of why the law is there disallowing a goal due to one or two mms. I don't care about Spurs but if this technology is going to be extended, as it will be, there needs to be a tolerance of an inch or two in the software in favour of the attacking side.

    It felt very unsatisfactory to me last night and still does this morning.
    In this instance I think it’s the application of VAR that’s the problem. 

    My understanding is that VAR was brought in to eradicate “clear and obvious” infringements of the laws. 

    If they’re not going to scrap it (they won’t but I wish they would) - it needs to go back and focus on “clear and obvious”. 

    I would vouch that taking over four minutes to make a decision with all of that technology last night means that last night’s infringement was neither clear nor obvious. 

    There should be a time limit applied to how long the VAR process can take in such instances ie 1 min or so) to keep it honest in terms of “clear and obvious” IMO. 

    . Video assistant referee (VAR)

    The use of video assistant referees (VARs) is only permitted where the match/competition organiser has fulfilled all Implementation Assistance and Approval Programme (IAAP) requirements as set out in FIFA's IAAP documents, and has received written permission from FIFA.

    The referee may be assisted by a video assistant referee (VAR) only in the event of a 'clear and obvious error' or 'serious missed incident' in relation to:

    • goal/no goal
    • penalty/no penalty
    • direct red card (not second caution)
    • mistaken identity when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team

    The assistance from the video assistant referee (VAR) will relate to using replay(s) of the incident. The referee will make the final decision which may be based solely on the information from the VAR and/or the referee reviewing the replay footage directly ('on-field review').

    Except for a 'serious missed incident' the referee (and where relevant other 'on-field', match officials) must always make a decision (including a decision not to penalise a potential offence); this decision does not change unless it is a 'clear and obvious error'.

    REVIEWS AFTER PLAY HAS RESTARTED

    If play has stopped and restarted, the referee may only undertake a 'review', and take the appropriate disciplinary sanction, for mistaken identity or for a potential sending off offence relating to violent conduct, spitting, biting or extremely offensive, insulting and/or abusive action(s) 


  • Sponsored links:


  • edited October 2022
    Seriously though , the spontaneity will be tainted cos I’m a bore who 90% of the time checks the Lino having previously celebrated goals that were disallowed in the past by the offside flag , so I’ve trained myself for that split second check .
    That’s the best thing about footy , that complete lunacy after a goal , take that away and you lose soooo much 

    tough one cos I do like things to be correct though so if it’s a millimetre then it’s still offside 😳🥴
  • That felt beautiful to me , that sick feeling as a couple of my kids furiously told me spurs were winning(I’ve brainwashed them they hate spurs to, too many of their fans at school give it ) and then the delay and the joy of them telling me it may be disallowed, then  it’d been disallowed… then I had to check with them did the spurs fans and players celebrate and go mad when they (thought) they had scored  , yes …. And that made it all the better .
    love it 
    then mrs told me off cos there was a sad looking spurs youngster on the telly ffs
    i then reminded her the state of our 4 little cnuts faces after we had to endure genuine utter shit and torture at The Valley the night before and that the spurs kid doesn’t know what real pain and shitness is 

    so nope,  long may Var make football fans suffer 

    The only consistent joy we get with how pathetic our club currently is is the suffering of other football fans and long may it continue .

    let’s face it spurs are gonna be through anyway , we’re gonna be shit anyway , so just those small snippets of enjoyment are what keep us alive football wise 

    Looking forward to your forthcoming best-seller on parenting skills, OohAah...
  • I thought the ball only went forward from the defenders touch, so therefore not offside (or is there now a stupid rule where the defenders touch has to be deliberate?). I have only seen the replay once tho so maybe need to watch again.
    Yes, the defender has to deliberately touch the ball to play the opposing player onside. In this particular case, the only other considerations were (a) was Harry Kane offside by being ahead of the ball when his team mate last played the ball and (b) was the ball played forward in this case. I state "in this case" because offsides can be awarded in other cases where the ball has been played backwards.

    Hope that is clear!
  • edited October 2022
    PeterGage said:
    I thought the ball only went forward from the defenders touch, so therefore not offside (or is there now a stupid rule where the defenders touch has to be deliberate?). I have only seen the replay once tho so maybe need to watch again.
    Yes, the defender has to deliberately touch the ball to play the opposing player onside. In this particular case, the only other considerations were (a) was Harry Kane offside by being ahead of the ball when his team mate last played the ball and (b) was the ball played forward in this case. I state "in this case" because offsides can be awarded in other cases where the ball has been played backwards.

    Hope that is clear!
    Hmmm not sure I like that rule. If the attacking team are intending to play the ball backwards, but the defending team through lack of awareness/poor defending/simply back luck end up forcing it forward then that shouldn’t be punished in the defending teams favour.
  • PeterGage said:
    I thought the ball only went forward from the defenders touch, so therefore not offside (or is there now a stupid rule where the defenders touch has to be deliberate?). I have only seen the replay once tho so maybe need to watch again.
    Yes, the defender has to deliberately touch the ball to play the opposing player onside. In this particular case, the only other considerations were (a) was Harry Kane offside by being ahead of the ball when his team mate last played the ball and (b) was the ball played forward in this case. I state "in this case" because offsides can be awarded in other cases where the ball has been played backwards.

    Hope that is clear!
    Hmmm not sure I like that rule. If the attacking team are intending to play the ball backwards, but the defending team through lack of awareness/poor defending/simply back luck end up forcing it forward then that shouldn’t be punished in the defending teams favour.
    I assume,Gary, that your last remark refers to my statement that offside can be awarded under certain circumstances when the ball has been played backwards. Off the top of my head, I can think of two situations when that would arise:

    1. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. From the backwards play, the ball strikes a defender, who has not attempted to play the ball and the ball rebounds to the most forward player who was in an offside position when his colleague first played it. That is offside.

    2. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. The offside colleague runs back from his offside position and is the player who collects the ball. That is offside.


  • edited October 2022
    Cricket has the "umpire's call". If an LBW decision is marginal, in other words less than 50% of the ball would have hit the stumps, they revert to the umpire's decision.

    Football needs something similar, either a time or drawn line method.
  • I think the authroities need to revise the offisde law specifically for VAR if they are going to use it. I know the argument against doing this is you shouldn't change the laws for one level and keep for another but last night's decision was the worst yet and it goes against the spirit of why the law is there disallowing a goal due to one or two mms. I don't care about Spurs but if this technology is going to be extended, as it will be, there needs to be a tolerance of an inch or two in the software in favour of the attacking side.

    It felt very unsatisfactory to me last night and still does this morning.
    IMHO the use of VAR and goal line technology has already made it a different game, depending on the level it is played at.

    I maintain my stance that VAR should be all or nothing. If it is to be used then it is used for every single decision, from players encroaching at the kick off to throw ins. 

    So basically - dump it. I don't give a sh1t that "millions of ££££ are riding on it" if money is your driving force, go play the stock market, not football.   
  • Joke of a decision but didn't do nowhere near enough in the 93-94 minutes before it to warrant the win.
  • PeterGage said:
    PeterGage said:
    I thought the ball only went forward from the defenders touch, so therefore not offside (or is there now a stupid rule where the defenders touch has to be deliberate?). I have only seen the replay once tho so maybe need to watch again.
    Yes, the defender has to deliberately touch the ball to play the opposing player onside. In this particular case, the only other considerations were (a) was Harry Kane offside by being ahead of the ball when his team mate last played the ball and (b) was the ball played forward in this case. I state "in this case" because offsides can be awarded in other cases where the ball has been played backwards.

    Hope that is clear!
    Hmmm not sure I like that rule. If the attacking team are intending to play the ball backwards, but the defending team through lack of awareness/poor defending/simply back luck end up forcing it forward then that shouldn’t be punished in the defending teams favour.
    I assume,Gary, that your last remark refers to my statement that offside can be awarded under certain circumstances when the ball has been played backwards. Off the top of my head, I can think of two situations when that would arise:

    1. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. From the backwards play, the ball strikes a defender, who has not attempted to play the ball and the ball rebounds to the most forward player who was in an offside position when his colleague first played it. That is offside.

    2. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. The offside colleague runs back from his offside position and is the player who collects the ball. That is offside.


    Never knew them two and I’m sure 95% of football fans wouldn’t either 
  • Sponsored links:


  • PeterGage said:
    PeterGage said:
    I thought the ball only went forward from the defenders touch, so therefore not offside (or is there now a stupid rule where the defenders touch has to be deliberate?). I have only seen the replay once tho so maybe need to watch again.
    Yes, the defender has to deliberately touch the ball to play the opposing player onside. In this particular case, the only other considerations were (a) was Harry Kane offside by being ahead of the ball when his team mate last played the ball and (b) was the ball played forward in this case. I state "in this case" because offsides can be awarded in other cases where the ball has been played backwards.

    Hope that is clear!
    Hmmm not sure I like that rule. If the attacking team are intending to play the ball backwards, but the defending team through lack of awareness/poor defending/simply back luck end up forcing it forward then that shouldn’t be punished in the defending teams favour.
    I assume,Gary, that your last remark refers to my statement that offside can be awarded under certain circumstances when the ball has been played backwards. Off the top of my head, I can think of two situations when that would arise:

    1. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. From the backwards play, the ball strikes a defender, who has not attempted to play the ball and the ball rebounds to the most forward player who was in an offside position when his colleague first played it. That is offside.

    2. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. The offside colleague runs back from his offside position and is the player who collects the ball. That is offside.


    Never knew them two and I’m sure 95% of football fans wouldn’t either 
    Now that you have been enlightened, you will never criticise a referee again 😛😛

    ps: the weight of a ball must be between 14-16 ounces at the start of play. The "start of play" remark refers to olden days when the leather casing would soak up rain and hugely increase the weight as the game went on!
  • Pity we never had VAR on Tuesday and at Lincoln …. 
  • PeterGage said:
    PeterGage said:
    PeterGage said:
    I thought the ball only went forward from the defenders touch, so therefore not offside (or is there now a stupid rule where the defenders touch has to be deliberate?). I have only seen the replay once tho so maybe need to watch again.
    Yes, the defender has to deliberately touch the ball to play the opposing player onside. In this particular case, the only other considerations were (a) was Harry Kane offside by being ahead of the ball when his team mate last played the ball and (b) was the ball played forward in this case. I state "in this case" because offsides can be awarded in other cases where the ball has been played backwards.

    Hope that is clear!
    Hmmm not sure I like that rule. If the attacking team are intending to play the ball backwards, but the defending team through lack of awareness/poor defending/simply back luck end up forcing it forward then that shouldn’t be punished in the defending teams favour.
    I assume,Gary, that your last remark refers to my statement that offside can be awarded under certain circumstances when the ball has been played backwards. Off the top of my head, I can think of two situations when that would arise:

    1. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. From the backwards play, the ball strikes a defender, who has not attempted to play the ball and the ball rebounds to the most forward player who was in an offside position when his colleague first played it. That is offside.

    2. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. The offside colleague runs back from his offside position and is the player who collects the ball. That is offside.


    Never knew them two and I’m sure 95% of football fans wouldn’t either 
    Now that you have been enlightened, you will never criticise a referee again 😛😛

    ps: the weight of a ball must be between 14-16 ounces at the start of play. The "start of play" remark refers to olden days when the leather casing would soak up rain and hugely increase the weight as the game went on!
    I never criticise refs (yes a rarity amongst the world is against us of Charlton fans )

    my boys all have to shake hands and thank the ref at the end of their football , no matter how good bad or ugly they were .


  • Personally i've always felt that VAR should only be for clear and obvious errors, and that if the VAR official needs to take 3-4 minutes and look at 27 replays to decide if a goal is 1cm offside then it's clearly not obvious, in which case the goal should stand.

    Should be a cut off point of say 90 seconds after the incident and if they can't reach a decision by that time then the goal stands.
  • At 1-0 to Sporting, I stuck a bet on for the game to end 1-1. Of course, VAR was right.
  • PeterGage said:
    PeterGage said:
    PeterGage said:
    I thought the ball only went forward from the defenders touch, so therefore not offside (or is there now a stupid rule where the defenders touch has to be deliberate?). I have only seen the replay once tho so maybe need to watch again.
    Yes, the defender has to deliberately touch the ball to play the opposing player onside. In this particular case, the only other considerations were (a) was Harry Kane offside by being ahead of the ball when his team mate last played the ball and (b) was the ball played forward in this case. I state "in this case" because offsides can be awarded in other cases where the ball has been played backwards.

    Hope that is clear!
    Hmmm not sure I like that rule. If the attacking team are intending to play the ball backwards, but the defending team through lack of awareness/poor defending/simply back luck end up forcing it forward then that shouldn’t be punished in the defending teams favour.
    I assume,Gary, that your last remark refers to my statement that offside can be awarded under certain circumstances when the ball has been played backwards. Off the top of my head, I can think of two situations when that would arise:

    1. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. From the backwards play, the ball strikes a defender, who has not attempted to play the ball and the ball rebounds to the most forward player who was in an offside position when his colleague first played it. That is offside.

    2. An attacking player, seeing his colleague ahead of him and in an offside position, plays the ball backwards. The offside colleague runs back from his offside position and is the player who collects the ball. That is offside.


    Never knew them two and I’m sure 95% of football fans wouldn’t either 
    Now that you have been enlightened, you will never criticise a referee again 😛😛

    ps: the weight of a ball must be between 14-16 ounces at the start of play. The "start of play" remark refers to olden days when the leather casing would soak up rain and hugely increase the weight as the game went on!
     @PeterGage
    Always good to get comments from people who actually know the laws of the game. Most commentators and pundits certainly don't let alone people on here. I think I used to but they have changed so many "interpretations" that I don't know.

    Can I ask one question on this. The whole focus has been the header back across goal. However it looked to me as though Kane was offside when the initial cross came in. If that was the case (and I'm not sure) is he offside under current interpretations. Certainly would have been in old days or is he now not deemed active until it is headed back across. 

  • edited October 2022
    I find it interesting that many of those who know the laws inside out are unwilling to debate the merits or weaknesses of them. I started this thread, not by asking whether the decision was right technically, but whether offside should be that close and whether the law should be revised. It might help for instance if more refs feedback how the laws could be improved.
  • That felt beautiful to me , that sick feeling as a couple of my kids furiously told me spurs were winning(I’ve brainwashed them they hate spurs to, too many of their fans at school give it ) and then the delay and the joy of them telling me it may be disallowed, then  it’d been disallowed… then I had to check with them did the spurs fans and players celebrate and go mad when they (thought) they had scored  , yes …. And that made it all the better .
    love it 
    then mrs told me off cos there was a sad looking spurs youngster on the telly ffs
    i then reminded her the state of our 4 little cnuts faces after we had to endure genuine utter shit and torture at The Valley the night before and that the spurs kid doesn’t know what real pain and shitness is 

    so nope,  long may Var make football fans suffer 

    The only consistent joy we get with how pathetic our club currently is is the suffering of other football fans and long may it continue .

    let’s face it spurs are gonna be through anyway , we’re gonna be shit anyway , so just those small snippets of enjoyment are what keep us alive football wise 

    Don’t care about Spurs one way or the other; if it had been the Scum, however, I’d have been celebrating long into the night.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!