Yet again a manager is made to enter an arse kicking contest with one leg, by a bell end of an owner. We certainly can pick em! And they can certainly find us a mile off!
TS, the bank of "You Saved Us" is running short of credit. Watch out, the natives get restless in these here parts mighty quick...
For me TS's credits ran out a long long time ago, anyone who can't see he's basically Roland 2 with much more meddling needs to give their head a wobble. You could argue in the last 2 years Roland was much better than TS! LdT was certainly better!
For me, on the playing side, bar possibly the keeper we are lighter in every position than our promotion season under Bowyer.
No one's near Bielik, Aribo or Cullen. I'd argue Sarr was a better CH than what we have currently IMHO, no question Bauer was, Taylor as much as he annoyed me was far superior up top, Pratley was way underrated in my view and better than what we have especially with his experience which we sorely lack.
We may have finished third, but I don't see us getting within 6 places of that finish with what we have now.
It feels like there are better teams as well in League 1 now.
I joked that Garner would be gone by Christmas, I'm less confident now that that was only a joke!
I wonder if the rejection of cat A status, after a heavy investment in the academy has seriously bruised his ego, and with that he's re-evaluated his commitment to football in general, which obviously hurts us directly.
We were never going to get Cat 1 status with our present set up
Maybe I've been living under a rock but is the academy rejection public/been covered somewhere? Any link appreciated. Thanks
That may be so @JohnnyH2, but he obviously did. He spent a few few quid trying, and since then he's changed tack.
God its been a grim few years being a charlton fan. No light at the end of the tunnel. Ben's comments yesterday won't be well received by TS. Not really what fan's want to hear but it is at least the truth and not spin. Respect to Ben for that.
God its been a grim few years being a charlton fan. No light at the end of the tunnel. Ben's comments yesterday won't be well received by TS. Not really what fan's want to hear but it is at least the truth and not spin. Respect to Ben for that.
Yes. And TS will have very little room for manoeuvre because he's been lauding the bloke so much and he is 100% his man. Garners set his stall out early and is not singing from the Sandgaard song sheet.
I wonder if the rejection of cat A status, after a heavy investment in the academy has seriously bruised his ego, and with that he's re-evaluated his commitment to football in general, which obviously hurts us directly.
We were never going to get Cat 1 status with our present set up
Maybe I've been living under a rock but is the academy rejection public/been covered somewhere? Any link appreciated. Thanks
That may be so @JohnnyH2, but he obviously did. He spent a few few quid trying, and since then he's changed tack.
I don't believe he changed tack in regards to the Academy. He spent what he thought would be enough to get the status. I just never felt what we had would be enough
I wonder if the rejection of cat A status, after a heavy investment in the academy has seriously bruised his ego, and with that he's re-evaluated his commitment to football in general, which obviously hurts us directly.
We were never going to get Cat 1 status with our present set up
Maybe I've been living under a rock but is the academy rejection public/been covered somewhere? Any link appreciated. Thanks
@ISawLeaburnScore Not as far as I know. The only article I saw linked on here listed Club's that had been successful this year and Charlton weren't mentioned on it. I've seen nothing else other than those with contacts in the Club confirming it. I've never seen an explanation given as to the actual reason(s) why we were rejected, only unfounded speculation.
For me TS's credits ran out a long long time ago, anyone who can't see he's basically Roland 2 with much more meddling needs to give their head a wobble. You could argue in the last 2 years Roland was much better than TS! LdT was certainly better!
For me, on the playing side, bar possibly the keeper we are lighter in every position than our promotion season under Bowyer.
No one's near Bielik, Aribo or Cullen. I'd argue Sarr was a better CH than what we have currently IMHO, no question Bauer was, Taylor as much as he annoyed me was far superior up top, Pratley was way underrated in my view and better than what we have especially with his experience which we sorely lack.
We may have finished third, but I don't see us getting within 6 places of that finish with what we have now.
It feels like there are better teams as well in League 1 now.
I joked that Garner would be gone by Christmas, I'm less confident now that that was only a joke!
The similarity was Bowyer's squad lacked depth so we missed Taylor when he was out etc... But the best players played enough games to get us third and when we did lose it was generally because one or two were not playing due to injury and suspension.
I would argue that we have some high end players for this level, but agree they come short compared to that team. But we are probably two or three off really challenging and we are very liable to be seriously weakened by injuries. With such a squad, you can't afford to carry an Aneke and Inniss. One injury to another player and you are already down to the bare bones.
Question for the forum. Do we know where we are in the league for salary budget? I noticed before the start of the league the bookies (not to say they know everything) had us as 12th favourites. Was that mostly due to salary budget? Or something else?
Forget any hyperbole from the owner, we are trending to be where the pre season predictions would have us. Thoroughly underwhelming and hard to accept this is our future.
What I suspect may have happened is the budget has been revised since Garner got here. It would explain bringing in a load of midfielders, because that is when they were available, and then despereately trying to offload midfielders we had who were considered surplus. It is obvious that Gibey's salary (or part of it as I doubt Stevenage are paying it all) and DJ were going to free up the financial space to pay for a striker's salary. JFC had his contract extended and wasn't happy about it at the time and then we were trying to desperately offload him with no takers, I assume without us having to pay a chunk of his salary!
Garner couldn’t hold back what he said about 2-3 windows to get to where we need to be. The likes of Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Derby and Bolton are spending money and we’re only relying on free transfers! Can’t even spend money from Pope transfer.
If we had Roland in charge we’d be moaning! Sandgaard clearly doesn’t have the money in comparison to the other owners in this league.
Question for the forum. Do we know where we are in the league for salary budget? I noticed before the start of the league the bookies (not to say they know everything) had us as 12th favourites. Was that mostly due to salary budget? Or something else?
Forget any hyperbole from the owner, we are trending to be where the pre season predictions would have us. Thoroughly underwhelming and hard to accept this is our future.
I think we released 17 players did we not? (Maybe I've got that wrong). We've brought 7 in all as frees/ loans.
4 of those were from League 2 Swindon. Mgrandles was from Lincoln so may not be on huge money.
Sessegnon probably on a relative fair wedge but perhaps Fulham picking up a lot of that.
Rak- Sakyi is from Palace's U21s rather than main squad so he probably is on decent wedge but perhaps not silly money.
Thought I recalled talk that we had the 4th highest wage budget but given the signings have all been loans and frees with most from the league below and we let more players go who were probably on more money.
Wouldn't suprise me if the squad spend was significantly less than last year in terms of wages as it is in terms of fees.
No mystery that the 2 clubs who've spent a lot and brought in lots top the table and expect at least 5 of the top 6 at the end of the season to be in the top spenders in terms of fees and wages. Just the reality of football across the leagues and surprised that's not been grasped over 2 seasons in.
We have 19 outfield +21 year olds in our playing squad where we are allowed 22.
Of this number 3 comprise JFC, Aneke and Innis whom will realistically all play minor parts in terms of minutes.
that leaves 16 senior outfield pros and even that number includes Clayden in his first season as a senior pro and whom I have only ever though looks way out of his depth and was surprised stayed with us.
TS claimed top 3-4 budget in the league didn’t he?
@Athletico Charlton , @RodneyCharltonTrotta@MuttleyCAFC, @DiscoCAFC Thanks for the info. For me this is the part that I find strange. If we are in the top 5 or 6 for spend we know this correlate’s to finishing position in most cases. However pre season we are in mid table for predicted finish. Maybe they (the bookies) know who is shopping for the groceries ie TS and had priced this in.
I’m sick of him. All talk. That last transfer window has done it for me. Seriously, we could go down this year. I’m starting to get sick of everything Charlton. There’s only so much you can take. Fuck off Sandgaard and your false promises.
In the Reichstag, when there is a vote of no confidence in the chancellor, they aren’t just voting to get rid of the incumbent. They also know who they are voting for as a replacement. It makes the deputies think a bit harder about whether that’s what they actually want.
I am completely unconvinced by Sandgaard, but who else is there? If you get rid of Boris Johnson and end up with Liz Truss, how far have you moved on? Sadly, I can’t imagine there is really anyone better for us at the moment. If Thomas gets tons of abuse and decides to get out, why shouldn’t he get on the phone to Southall/Farnell and say, ‘Charlton for a quid anyone?’
Like, I know TS hasn't spent what the project requires, and it is frustrating, but a new football culture is being undoubtedly built. Even if we don't go up this season, maybe SW, Ipswich and Portsmouth will, which will make next season so much easier to target promotion in. I know this isn't popular, but I still want to trust Garner's process and watch our team. I think we're building something really great, just needs a few personnel changes. Not that many even. And when players return from injury, for the minutes that Aneke gets on the field we may even have all the necessary pieces already (yes, I know)
For me TS's credits ran out a long long time ago, anyone who can't see he's basically Roland 2 with much more meddling needs to give their head a wobble. You could argue in the last 2 years Roland was much better than TS! LdT was certainly better!
For me, on the playing side, bar possibly the keeper we are lighter in every position than our promotion season under Bowyer.
No one's near Bielik, Aribo or Cullen. I'd argue Sarr was a better CH than what we have currently IMHO, no question Bauer was, Taylor as much as he annoyed me was far superior up top, Pratley was way underrated in my view and better than what we have especially with his experience which we sorely lack.
We may have finished third, but I don't see us getting within 6 places of that finish with what we have now.
It feels like there are better teams as well in League 1 now.
I joked that Garner would be gone by Christmas, I'm less confident now that that was only a joke!
This for me. The worst part is TS could so easily have made a better stab at this if he wasn’t treating it like a toy. As a successful businessman, I don’t understand why he seems to think this is different to running a business and hasn’t appointed operational, experienced football people to run the club.
If Zynex bought another company to compliment his medical supplies business, would he try to run that without a GM, a VP of Sales, a CMO and dictate the commercial strategy himself? Would he turn up in the staff canteen at lunch with his guitar and throw you rifts in with staff over their lunch. No! Well I can’t say for certain, but I can’t imagine so.
So why are we any different. If anything, because we are money pit, I would’ve thought the sensible approach would be to go above and beyond to find the right people to help.
There is a saying that I read a bodybuilder say once. Lean, Big, Natural- pick 2. Essentially saying that unless your are a genetic outlier of significant proportion the objective of achieving all 3 is all but pie in the sky thinking.
With Charlton it could be simplified to break even; get promoted from League 1 - pick one.
The latest proposed objective (of many that have yet to be delivered since he tookover) is to break even whilst it is assumed progressing the club forwards without explicitly saying promotion.
I can't see how this can be achieved for a club our size in league one without a significant genetic outlier of Garner working miracles.
A 2 year project as Garner has cited whilst the man pulling the strings has cited his main objective is to break even in league one. Given that I can't see attendances increasing materially with potential for the opposite in the absence of a barnstorming season on the pitch the only way to do that is slash costs. He has already reduced the SMT to Gallen, his partner and son and and there don't appear to be any c suite level appointments directing the club or its strategy in any area since the departures of the Roddys, Mumfords and Jokats.
Several long serving Charlton fan employees have left the front and back office in the past year and I don't expect replacements will be on the same money or silly money if so.
You can't buy anything in the shop online other than kits...I've tried all summer and since start of the season... and so the only revenue stream is tickets, hospitality etc again which will likely shift proportionate to success on the pitch....regardless of daily emails, texts and calls trying to upsell to season ticket holders.
Therefore the only other way to increase revenue is sell players at a profit...Leaburn maybe? and reduce costs by continually reducing squad costs.
As each season passes it will be harder and harder to achieve an already questionable objective of breaking even in League one and can only see further cuts/ leaner transfer windows over next 2 years under this objective. Assuming the objective is anything other than this months latest nonsensical soundbite that won't materialise.
To break even in this league you are essentially looking at downgrading the club to a Fleetwood or Accrington to getting anywhere near achieving that. Not the key objective of 99.9% of Charlton fans and all the talk of pressing attractive football (albeit with little end product) will do little to make that appealing to an ever dwindling fan base.
The maths and reality of it don't add up and talk of 2 year projects is just kicking the can down the road giving the fans something to hope for which will unlikely materialise if the same approach is taken i.e. minimal spend by which time Garner will have likely moved on citing taken as far as he can or something more diplomatic or getting booted as the latest scapegoat for failure to deliver under this set up to fail strategy.
I have continually read how bad administration would be for this club, It should of happened when Duchatelet was piss balling around with ESI, and maybe we'd be in a better place.
Look at Wigan. At the time we were courting the chancer we've now got running the place, they were going down the tubes. Look at them now!
RD would never have got his money back had he placed us into Administration, so he was never going to do that.
As for Wigan, they got lucky after the points deduction as a result of going into Administration relegated them. I suspect they had a stronger core group of players given where they would have finished in the Championship had the points not been deducted, although they have obviously built back very well since then and been promoted under their new owners.
All it guarantees is points deductions and player transfer embargoes with no guarantee of finding another buyer, let alone a credible one. Not all Club's that go into Administration emerge unscathed and it's harmful to the Club's creditors, who usually only get back a proportion of what they're owed.
The problem is, even if TS sells us. You’d only get another idiot take over. You’d have to be an idiot to take over us in our current state, TS is an idiot but the next owner will be as well, or worse it will be another crook like ESI
When is the next fans forum or opportunity to question Sandgaard? I feel like this is where we need the Trust to step up and publicly ask Sandgaard for a meeting or Q and A as we need answers on budget, expectations, future plans, ticket pricing, staff issues etc…
I always thought the reason we didn't really protest against the spivs is it was obvious they had no money and were trying to sell the club so what would be protesting for? To get them to do what they were trying to do? With Roland we were trying to get him to sell which he didn't really do. Instead he made a terrible business decision in offloading the playing part of the club to a bunch of crooks with an almost criminal lack of dilligence and as Airman has said, his shadow is still hanging over us.
The question is, is Sandgaard trying to drastically cut costs because he has realised he can't succeed or is he genuinely trying to make us profitable in League One? I don't think he can really believe that is possible but the cost cutting is most likely part of trying to offload a club with no real assets. So as that is the case, not sure what good protests against him would do, much as the spivs. I think this is clearly a decision that has been made relatively recently, as why appoint Garner if you were looking to get out?
If a case could be made for further protests, it would probably be back to Duchatelet but we gave that our best shot and the bloke is as mad as a hatter so it would almost certainly be a waste of our time and money. We have to hope somebody comes in. I think there is a lot of untapped potential in terms of growing the club but it has to be somebody with reasonably deep pockets. If we were to get to the promised land, I think the club would be very sellable given its location and catchment area and that is where the riches lie.
When is the next fans forum or opportunity to question Sandgaard? I feel like this is where we need the Trust to step up and publicly ask Sandgaard for a meeting or Q and A as we need answers on budget, expectations, future plans, ticket pricing, staff issues etc…
Thursday week (15th) but if it’s anything like the minutes from the last one, don’t get your hopes up. Would love to be proved wrong though.
He won’t do this but a q and a with Sandgaard in Crossbars with fans. Then you can’t say your question was not asked.
Comments
TS, the bank of "You Saved Us" is running short of credit. Watch out, the natives get restless in these here parts mighty quick...
The rich man came in
Convinced he would win
The guitar riffs were loud
But when he threw the money
And now does he leave us
The old Charlton we mourn
For me, on the playing side, bar possibly the keeper we are lighter in every position than our promotion season under Bowyer.
No one's near Bielik, Aribo or Cullen. I'd argue Sarr was a better CH than what we have currently IMHO, no question Bauer was, Taylor as much as he annoyed me was far superior up top, Pratley was way underrated in my view and better than what we have especially with his experience which we sorely lack.
We may have finished third, but I don't see us getting within 6 places of that finish with what we have now.
It feels like there are better teams as well in League 1 now.
I joked that Garner would be gone by Christmas, I'm less confident now that that was only a joke!
Garners set his stall out early and is not singing from the Sandgaard song sheet.
I would argue that we have some high end players for this level, but agree they come short compared to that team. But we are probably two or three off really challenging and we are very liable to be seriously weakened by injuries. With such a squad, you can't afford to carry an Aneke and Inniss. One injury to another player and you are already down to the bare bones.
Garner couldn’t hold back what he said about 2-3 windows to get to where we need to be. The likes of Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Derby and Bolton are spending money and we’re only relying on free transfers! Can’t even spend money from Pope transfer.
Charlton Athletic - Transfers 22/23 | Transfermarkt
I think we released 17 players did we not? (Maybe I've got that wrong). We've brought 7 in all as frees/ loans.
4 of those were from League 2 Swindon. Mgrandles was from Lincoln so may not be on huge money.
Sessegnon probably on a relative fair wedge but perhaps Fulham picking up a lot of that.
Rak- Sakyi is from Palace's U21s rather than main squad so he probably is on decent wedge but perhaps not silly money.
Thought I recalled talk that we had the 4th highest wage budget but given the signings have all been loans and frees with most from the league below and we let more players go who were probably on more money.
Wouldn't suprise me if the squad spend was significantly less than last year in terms of wages as it is in terms of fees.
No mystery that the 2 clubs who've spent a lot and brought in lots top the table and expect at least 5 of the top 6 at the end of the season to be in the top spenders in terms of fees and wages. Just the reality of football across the leagues and surprised that's not been grasped over 2 seasons in.
Of this number 3 comprise JFC, Aneke and Innis whom will realistically all play minor parts in terms of minutes.
that leaves 16 senior outfield pros and even that number includes Clayden in his first season as a senior pro and whom I have only ever though looks way out of his depth and was surprised stayed with us.
TS claimed top 3-4 budget in the league didn’t he?
So why are we any different. If anything, because we are money pit, I would’ve thought the sensible approach would be to go above and beyond to find the right people to help.
With Charlton it could be simplified to break even; get promoted from League 1 - pick one.
The latest proposed objective (of many that have yet to be delivered since he tookover) is to break even whilst it is assumed progressing the club forwards without explicitly saying promotion.
I can't see how this can be achieved for a club our size in league one without a significant genetic outlier of Garner working miracles.
A 2 year project as Garner has cited whilst the man pulling the strings has cited his main objective is to break even in league one. Given that I can't see attendances increasing materially with potential for the opposite in the absence of a barnstorming season on the pitch the only way to do that is slash costs. He has already reduced the SMT to Gallen, his partner and son and and there don't appear to be any c suite level appointments directing the club or its strategy in any area since the departures of the Roddys, Mumfords and Jokats.
Several long serving Charlton fan employees have left the front and back office in the past year and I don't expect replacements will be on the same money or silly money if so.
You can't buy anything in the shop online other than kits...I've tried all summer and since start of the season... and so the only revenue stream is tickets, hospitality etc again which will likely shift proportionate to success on the pitch....regardless of daily emails, texts and calls trying to upsell to season ticket holders.
Therefore the only other way to increase revenue is sell players at a profit...Leaburn maybe? and reduce costs by continually reducing squad costs.
As each season passes it will be harder and harder to achieve an already questionable objective of breaking even in League one and can only see further cuts/ leaner transfer windows over next 2 years under this objective. Assuming the objective is anything other than this months latest nonsensical soundbite that won't materialise.
To break even in this league you are essentially looking at downgrading the club to a Fleetwood or Accrington to getting anywhere near achieving that. Not the key objective of 99.9% of Charlton fans and all the talk of pressing attractive football (albeit with little end product) will do little to make that appealing to an ever dwindling fan base.
The maths and reality of it don't add up and talk of 2 year projects is just kicking the can down the road giving the fans something to hope for which will unlikely materialise if the same approach is taken i.e. minimal spend by which time Garner will have likely moved on citing taken as far as he can or something more diplomatic or getting booted as the latest scapegoat for failure to deliver under this set up to fail strategy.
As for Wigan, they got lucky after the points deduction as a result of going into Administration relegated them. I suspect they had a stronger core group of players given where they would have finished in the Championship had the points not been deducted, although they have obviously built back very well since then and been promoted under their new owners.
All it guarantees is points deductions and player transfer embargoes with no guarantee of finding another buyer, let alone a credible one. Not all Club's that go into Administration emerge unscathed and it's harmful to the Club's creditors, who usually only get back a proportion of what they're owed.
The question is, is Sandgaard trying to drastically cut costs because he has realised he can't succeed or is he genuinely trying to make us profitable in League One? I don't think he can really believe that is possible but the cost cutting is most likely part of trying to offload a club with no real assets. So as that is the case, not sure what good protests against him would do, much as the spivs. I think this is clearly a decision that has been made relatively recently, as why appoint Garner if you were looking to get out?
If a case could be made for further protests, it would probably be back to Duchatelet but we gave that our best shot and the bloke is as mad as a hatter so it would almost certainly be a waste of our time and money. We have to hope somebody comes in. I think there is a lot of untapped potential in terms of growing the club but it has to be somebody with reasonably deep pockets. If we were to get to the promised land, I think the club would be very sellable given its location and catchment area and that is where the riches lie.
He won’t do this but a q and a with Sandgaard in Crossbars with fans. Then you can’t say your question was not asked.