My optimism has been tempered a bit now because I wanted to see a proven striker brought in and integrated ready to start against Accrington, which seems unlikely to happen in time, if at all, now.
Not having 2 of the 5 new signings ready to start isn't great either, but it seems our injury curse endures above all else. Still, the sun's out and the birds are singing. Hey Ho!
My thoughts as well. If we don't further strengthen then we're possibly looking at 9th-12th. If Stockley or Aneke get any sort of medium term injury we're possibly looking at bottom half. If we get in a good striker, goal scoring midfielder, left back and possibly left footed centre half, we could be making a promotion challenge probably via the play offs.
And they need to be of sufficient quality, not raw loanees just making up the squad numbers
The only highlights I have seen from yesterday was presumably the silent Sutton 4 minute one. What caught my eye was Kirk. He was doing some quite positive and progressive stuff I have not seen him do in a Charlton shirt before. It was only a snippet mind.
Did he actually beat a player on the outside and use his left foot.
I only saw a very little bit, but he was a bit more creative than I remember. I also think he doesn’t beat players on the outside and then use his left foot well, I am not sure he will ever do that….similarly i’m not sure DJ will ever be content to simply beat the same player once in a single move, then shift the ball on.
Can Steven Sessegnon overlap on the left in an attacking position ? If the answer is No then no point in playing Charlie Kirk as he will just turn in on his favoured right foot which any coach can inform his players to stop. CBT has to get the gig on the left unless we are getting the attacking LB with some pace to get up and down and cross the ball from an advanced player with his Left foot.
No comment on today as didn't watch and just read this thread but the number 3 position has been an ongoing issue for a year and needs to be addressed.
Which is what I noted during the game, as in the first half we had little width down the left as Sessegnon also likes to cut inside, and is more comfortable on his right foot
Clayden came on at half time, and it's no coincidence that Kirk looked more dangerous as the defenders also had to cover the player on the outside
I think it was your post that promoted my response so cheers for the information on Steven Sessegnon.
Two examples of having 3 forwards who can cover all positions up front successfully are Liverpool who with originally Mane, Salah and Firmino; now mainly Jota or Dias who just kept changing positions.
There must be examples of 3 working in League 1with forwards who can all score and make assists ?
The England team with 3 forwards Play a slightly different version with winger/Strikers in Mead and Hemp changing sides every 10 minutes or so and White or her Sub Russo taking the central position.
Ok this is elite sides in the men's and woman's football and all of the players mentioned are goal scorers whether they pick up the ball wide or go central so they always have two in or around the area plus the attacking midfielder.
Kirk/Stockley/CBT won't work. CBT/Aneke/DJ won't work
Kirk/Davison/Leaburn won't work
Of course at times it can work but so did 3-5-2 or otherwise we wouldn't have gone from 22nd to 13th under JJ but it also stopped working because of not having players good enough overall in the positions. If we had two bona fide wing backs we would have probably finished 8th or 9th.
Perm any 3 of our players in a 3 up front and I can't see it working unless we are better at getting support to the central striker.
Just my sober opinion and unfortunately I called it correct at the start of last season when I said we wouldn't score from open play with 2 wide men and Stockley. Last game in August before we did.
Ben Garner has a good reputation as a coach so I'm intrigued to see how he will set the team up as at the moment it feels we will get caught in limbo.
Agreed. 2 wide men and one fairly immobile striker doesn't give you enough attacking threat, unless you have a really prolific midfield behind them. It would be like Curbs in the mid 90s playing a front 3 of Robinson, Leaburn and Newton.
Liverpool play with 3 mobile strikers, and rely on really attacking full backs to hug the touchline and provide the width and crosses. Thus the midfield 3 don't need to score very often, that's not their job.
When Hull got promoted, then had Magennis as the No 9, but Mallik Wilks and Keane Lewis-Potter both provided a massive threat as wide forwards. That's the type of player I think we need
The only highlights I have seen from yesterday was presumably the silent Sutton 4 minute one. What caught my eye was Kirk. He was doing some quite positive and progressive stuff I have not seen him do in a Charlton shirt before. It was only a snippet mind.
Did he actually beat a player on the outside and use his left foot.
I only saw a very little bit, but he was a bit more creative than I remember. I also think he doesn’t beat players on the outside and then use his left foot well, I am not sure he will ever do that….similarly i’m not sure DJ will ever be content to simply beat the same player once in a single move, then shift the ball on.
I am not a Kirk fan, but to be fair, he went on the outside twice and put in good crosses in with his left foot. Nearly fell off my arm chair.
When was last time we had a ‘good’ pre season and how did we do that season ?
Agree. And to work out a preferred shape and learn the style of play the manager wants. I wouldn’t read anything into this result as I would the Dartford and Col U games.
The times we’ve had a really impressive pre season and then been shit once the season starts and vice versa , I’ve learned not to make judgement until I see the team at full intensity in the first game and probably a couple of games more, both teams are then playing for points and we get a real reading of our level against the teams we could be fighting hopefully for promotion.
I’m definitely going to try and give the team a chance to show what they can do and start to form more of an opinion after 10 games. On paper I don’t think we look strong enough, but let’s see.
Agree with this. I'm excited to get to Accrington either way and see a match that matters
the squad is still overloaded with midfielders and lacking in genuine strikers .. also, we still need another experienced keeper
We definitely don't need another keeper, unless we sell CMacG
we need a VERY GOOD keeper, as, the keeper is the most important member of the team .. a t m none of our keepers are quite good enough .. I'd be happy to see Mc go, IF anyone wants him
The only highlights I have seen from yesterday was presumably the silent Sutton 4 minute one. What caught my eye was Kirk. He was doing some quite positive and progressive stuff I have not seen him do in a Charlton shirt before. It was only a snippet mind.
Did he actually beat a player on the outside and use his left foot.
I only saw a very little bit, but he was a bit more creative than I remember. I also think he doesn’t beat players on the outside and then use his left foot well, I am not sure he will ever do that….similarly i’m not sure DJ will ever be content to simply beat the same player once in a single move, then shift the ball on.
Having kept a close eye on Kirk during pre-season he comes across more of a wide playing playmaker, than your Robinson or Blackett-Taylor type wingers - Always looks to play the pass into space rather than beating his man. If he runs with the ball, it feels its often to try and pull the opposition out of position, so he can play a pass for someone else to exploit it.
No doubt comes down to the fact that he isnt overly quick.
Can see why he got put into that No.10 role when we played @ Lincoln last season. He's probably better left out wide though, as he'll definitely drift in and out of a game, and feels less risky than in a central role.
the squad is still overloaded with midfielders and lacking in genuine strikers .. also, we still need another experienced keeper
We definitely don't need another keeper, unless we sell CMacG
we need a VERY GOOD keeper, as, the keeper is the most important member of the team .. a t m none of our keepers are quite good enough .. I'd be happy to see Mc go, IF anyone wants him
Why are you writing off Wollacott? The mistake against Kilmarnock?
the squad is still overloaded with midfielders and lacking in genuine strikers .. also, we still need another experienced keeper
We definitely don't need another keeper, unless we sell CMacG
we need a VERY GOOD keeper, as, the keeper is the most important member of the team .. a t m none of our keepers are quite good enough .. I'd be happy to see Mc go, IF anyone wants him
Why are you writing off Wollacott? The mistake against Kilmarnock?
Woollcott seemed to be getting a bit of stick from some of our own fans yesterday. This could be a long season …
the squad is still overloaded with midfielders and lacking in genuine strikers .. also, we still need another experienced keeper
We definitely don't need another keeper, unless we sell CMacG
we need a VERY GOOD keeper, as, the keeper is the most important member of the team .. a t m none of our keepers are quite good enough .. I'd be happy to see Mc go, IF anyone wants him
Why are you writing off Wollacott? The mistake against Kilmarnock?
Woollcott seemed to be getting a bit of stick from some of our own fans yesterday. This could be a long season …
the squad is still overloaded with midfielders and lacking in genuine strikers .. also, we still need another experienced keeper
We definitely don't need another keeper, unless we sell CMacG
we need a VERY GOOD keeper, as, the keeper is the most important member of the team .. a t m none of our keepers are quite good enough .. I'd be happy to see Mc go, IF anyone wants him
Why are you writing off Wollacott? The mistake against Kilmarnock?
Woollcott seemed to be getting a bit of stick from some of our own fans yesterday. This could be a long season …
the squad is still overloaded with midfielders and lacking in genuine strikers .. also, we still need another experienced keeper
We definitely don't need another keeper, unless we sell CMacG
we need a VERY GOOD keeper, as, the keeper is the most important member of the team .. a t m none of our keepers are quite good enough .. I'd be happy to see Mc go, IF anyone wants him
Why are you writing off Wollacott? The mistake against Kilmarnock?
Woollcott seemed to be getting a bit of stick from some of our own fans yesterday. This could be a long season …
Some of our fans can be idiots. Was it jovial, or somewhat nasty?
the squad is still overloaded with midfielders and lacking in genuine strikers .. also, we still need another experienced keeper
We definitely don't need another keeper, unless we sell CMacG
we need a VERY GOOD keeper, as, the keeper is the most important member of the team .. a t m none of our keepers are quite good enough .. I'd be happy to see Mc go, IF anyone wants him
no chance we're in the market for a keeper. Wollacott hasn't signed to be Number 2. We had our opportunity to replace Mac and we took it.
Not sure the squad is overloaded with midfielders either. We need 6 CM's and we've got them. Whether the quality is there is debatable, but the quantity is right.
the squad is still overloaded with midfielders and lacking in genuine strikers .. also, we still need another experienced keeper
We definitely don't need another keeper, unless we sell CMacG
we need a VERY GOOD keeper, as, the keeper is the most important member of the team .. a t m none of our keepers are quite good enough .. I'd be happy to see Mc go, IF anyone wants him
Why are you writing off Wollacott? The mistake against Kilmarnock?
Woollcott seemed to be getting a bit of stick from some of our own fans yesterday. This could be a long season …
Some of our fans can be idiots. Was it jovial, or somewhat nasty?
Certainly not jovial, but nasty maybe a bit strong. Not the way to welcome a new player though …
Last season I questioned why JJ insisted on almost every game playing three CBs and was told that, at this level, most teams do so because the CBs aren't usually good enough at defending and that having wing backs offers both defensive and offensive opportunities. And yet, under Garner, we appear to be playing a flat back four.
So what has changed and if it is possible to play at flat back four, why did we not do it more often last season? Certainly it would have suited a Purrington, for example, far better. As someone who likes to see a CBT used where he has the most impact, I would certainly rather see had a back four.
Last season I questioned why JJ insisted on almost every game playing three CBs and was told that, at this level, most teams do so because the CBs aren't usually good enough at defending and that having wing backs offers both defensive and offensive opportunities. And yet, under Garner, we appear to be playing a flat back four.
Who said that? Personally, I thought JJ said he played a 3-5-2 because he liked to have 2 strikers up top. And to be fair, the only players it actually suited were the strikers. We ended up with wingers at wing back, full-backs at centre back and at one point, midfielders up front. It was a mess.
Are the U23 playing today? Be interesting to see if there is any game time for some of the players who are coming back from injury or need more match time
Comments
Liverpool play with 3 mobile strikers, and rely on really attacking full backs to hug the touchline and provide the width and crosses. Thus the midfield 3 don't need to score very often, that's not their job.
When Hull got promoted, then had Magennis as the No 9, but Mallik Wilks and Keane Lewis-Potter both provided a massive threat as wide forwards. That's the type of player I think we need
Nearly fell off my arm chair.
No doubt comes down to the fact that he isnt overly quick.
Can see why he got put into that No.10 role when we played @ Lincoln last season. He's probably better left out wide though, as he'll definitely drift in and out of a game, and feels less risky than in a central role.
Not sure the squad is overloaded with midfielders either. We need 6 CM's and we've got them. Whether the quality is there is debatable, but the quantity is right.
There were a few groans about our play, but they were more general ones.
So what has changed and if it is possible to play at flat back four, why did we not do it more often last season? Certainly it would have suited a Purrington, for example, far better. As someone who likes to see a CBT used where he has the most impact, I would certainly rather see had a back four.