If he's had issues for two seasons Sage, can you say they're over and won't affect him next season?
How come they didn't affect him during JJ's early run?
I can sympathise if people have personal stuff going on but I would honestly like us to build a team we don't have to make excuses for. Over the past few years it feels like it's constant.
It's the hiding that did it for me. Gilbey hides in the tough parts of the game and you cannot have a CM that does that and expect to be successful. (See our record for coming back from 1-0 down).
How many excuses does one man need? You could write a similar apologia for just about any of our first-team last season. Even Kirk. Whatever the mitigating factors, he wasn't, according to the majority of those who viewed him, very good in all but a couple of games in Jackson's caretaker spell, and his drop-off, playing in, counter to what you say, a midfield three at all times (with, yes, the occasional winger remit given taking on the fullback was about the only thing he could do with any success, although it was invariably followed by a cross straight at the keeper), was frankly disastrous, and he was rumbled, simple as that. He can be as nice as he likes but his refusal to participate in proper build-up play (the insta-layoff to the RWB being his signature move), his lack of ball control, his laughable 'tackling' and his woeful passing should all mean he has no place in a team that seeks to win the ball, keep the ball and build attacks.
Interesting take from @Sage on Gilbey. I'm afraid I don't think there's a way back for him: he's definitely got something in terms of talent, but his ill discipline and hiding last season were really frustrating. I don't expect world class players at Charlton, but I think the least I can ask for is that people try their hardest - he'd need to be really at the top of his game to win people over. I'd keep Purrington because despite his limitations I never get the feeling he loses control or hides. And after last season we could really do with some players who don't lose control - I'm surprised we didn't end up with even more red cards than we did.
We've seen Gibley turn in MOM performances but we've seen him more often at the bottom of the Statbank marks. I'd like to see him get a pre-season so perhaps Garner can work out where to play him to get the best from him.
I didn't understand why JJ played him just about every week when it was evident he wasn't playing well.
I'm pretty sure he's settled as he bought a house from a friend of mine in Essex. The same friend had his previous house bought by Eliot Lee! As a West Ham fan he was quite surprised to see Robert Lee turn up with his son for the viewing! He hsn't sold one to Ben Purrington though!
I won’t be sad to see Gilbey go. Far too inconsistent for my liking. Don’t think his style of play is going to suit the new brand of possession football.
I have met and spoke to Gilbey many times and can assure you all he is an intelligent man who has time for those around him. He is not unsettled either. I am sure he would say so himself that he has changed since becoming a father. The abuse he has received from here and on social media is far too harsh. He’s not played great through the second half of the season but he was excellent through the Jackson caretaker spell.
If you look at his Charlton career, it’s not gone the way he wanted at all. And there are reasons for that, normal football and human life reasons that people often overlook.
He came in to a side who had been relegated and the squad decimated. He started bright and then picked up an injury. He played through the injury as he wanted to continue to play and try to help the team. It didn’t work and he was out for longer.
He then came back into the side and seemingly fell out of favour with Bowyer, playing him in all kinds of positions and being singled out for criticism. He came out the team again but was struggling to get back to fitness and that management style at the time was not ideal.
Adkins came in and played him as a 10 and he was very good at the back end of that season. People talking about a new Gilbey and whatever it might have been. We were impressed.
He missed a large part, if not all of pre season because he had a severe case of covid. That took a big hit on his fitness and possibly a bit on his confidence too.
Gets himself in a position to help the team after hard work and does very well up until the middle of December.
Then Jackson gets made permanent, we have case after case of Covid and injuries start to Mount including our 3 main strikers. All of our players in that period were poor.
Players start to come back and by this point, the season is over, there is a lot of internal politics, players do not know their future and because of the system being played, he often found himself having to be almost a right midfielder and not a central midfielder being asked to help the attack because Matthews as right wing back offered nearly nothing going forward.
His best position is one of two 8s in a 3 man midfield with actual wide players available. We rarely played that throughout his time here.
His performances haven’t been great and he would say the same but the criticism is well over board and has been for a while and that, alongside it being a general census so people will lean towards that opinion, contributes to his average marks. But at the same time, people like myself never score players so it is also skewed as well.
If he leaves, it looks like I’ll be one in a minority who will be sad to see him go because he can offer us so much next season and I hope he stays and proves many people wrong because in a team who has the ball more than they don’t, and creates more chances, he is actually a type of player who could shine.
I agree.
I hope he was not one of the footballers who declined the vaccination?
I have met and spoke to Gilbey many times and can assure you all he is an intelligent man who has time for those around him. He is not unsettled either. I am sure he would say so himself that he has changed since becoming a father. The abuse he has received from here and on social media is far too harsh. He’s not played great through the second half of the season but he was excellent through the Jackson caretaker spell.
If you look at his Charlton career, it’s not gone the way he wanted at all. And there are reasons for that, normal football and human life reasons that people often overlook.
He came in to a side who had been relegated and the squad decimated. He started bright and then picked up an injury. He played through the injury as he wanted to continue to play and try to help the team. It didn’t work and he was out for longer.
He then came back into the side and seemingly fell out of favour with Bowyer, playing him in all kinds of positions and being singled out for criticism. He came out the team again but was struggling to get back to fitness and that management style at the time was not ideal.
Adkins came in and played him as a 10 and he was very good at the back end of that season. People talking about a new Gilbey and whatever it might have been. We were impressed.
He missed a large part, if not all of pre season because he had a severe case of covid. That took a big hit on his fitness and possibly a bit on his confidence too.
Gets himself in a position to help the team after hard work and does very well up until the middle of December.
Then Jackson gets made permanent, we have case after case of Covid and injuries start to Mount including our 3 main strikers. All of our players in that period were poor.
Players start to come back and by this point, the season is over, there is a lot of internal politics, players do not know their future and because of the system being played, he often found himself having to be almost a right midfielder and not a central midfielder being asked to help the attack because Matthews as right wing back offered nearly nothing going forward.
His best position is one of two 8s in a 3 man midfield with actual wide players available. We rarely played that throughout his time here.
His performances haven’t been great and he would say the same but the criticism is well over board and has been for a while and that, alongside it being a general census so people will lean towards that opinion, contributes to his average marks. But at the same time, people like myself never score players so it is also skewed as well.
If he leaves, it looks like I’ll be one in a minority who will be sad to see him go because he can offer us so much next season and I hope he stays and proves many people wrong because in a team who has the ball more than they don’t, and creates more chances, he is actually a type of player who could shine.
I agree.
I hope he was not one of the footballers who declined the vaccination?
No, Gilbey is vaccinated.
Excellent. That will hopefully help him get back to full fitness so a pre season could see quite an improvement.
Thanks @sage as your opinion is welcomed. Good to hear that Alex came across as an intelligent guy and settled.
Also to hear about his personal life as after Marcus Maddison you wonder about home situation because fans/critics believe players are robots.
I spent more time defending Gilbey before his idiotic sending off because like you I believe he can play like the Ipswich home form and be a major player. Especially with a fit and healthy Fraser.
It was JJ who suffered the most with red cards for Alex even though a sharp Washington could've given Charlton 3 points against Lincoln. In a later match with Ryan Inniss with that Torpedo tackle after which caused more dropped points.
Unlike Alex Gilbey who I don't know, Jayden Stockley is a family man and is a great guy to talk to. A real gentle giant who only gets annoyed on the pitch at work when he gets rubbish passes over his head and not balls to run on to in and around the box. Both Aneke (goal against Morecambe) and Jayden would benefit from good wide play. Also with midfielders or a partner nearer to him a ball to his chest or feet then Stockley will show that he is good at League 1 level though I will reserve judgement at championship level as that isn't a decision next season.
I want Ben Garner to have the casting vote on incoming and outgoing player transfers but as Rhoys Wiggins told me just months after he had to retire, football is political and many fans just don't understand what really goes on with owners, managers, coaches and scouts, let alone your own family situations. When you're in favour at a club it's a brilliant life when your form dips or injuries because of a myriad of different reasons it can be hell.
Sorry for the name dropping but I struggle with getting information 2nd hand even if when I hear it direct I wouldn't pass on certain comments unless said on Zoom or at a Addicks meeting when it's said to be shared.
People will see it as excuses, I see it as facts of what’s happened through his 2 years at the club. It’s not been an easy ride or plain sailing by any means.
Yes people will say the same about other players and Kirk for example, but the fact is they’re human beings, they all do have things going on, personally or professionally, that impact their performance. It’s no different to any of us.
Ive admitted his performances haven’t been great but there are mitigating factors that influence that level of performance. Personally, professionally, injuries, fitness, system, team mates, managers, confidence, abuse online… the point is, as football fans we quickly paint each player with the same brush of criticism without having any logical thought behind it.
Everyone will offer a different opinion but I stand on the side of having an informed opinion is better than outright criticism without anything constructive to add or improve. I feel in a 4-3-3 with the team set up to have more of the ball, Gilbey will do well. Whether he’s afforded that opportunity to prove it and prove himself is another matter entirely.
Grayson has just gone out to India for a manager's Job. Ronnie Moore may have mixed up Blackpool with Bengaluru fc !
It's like in the Spirit world when the mediums get a bad line and tell you your Auntie Peg who has passed wants you to get your bad back checked out. When you tell the medium, no Aunt Peg but you have an Uncle Pete, they retort, oh that's right uncle is coming through from the spirit world ? When I said to the medium you are correct in some ways as I had just left Uncle Pete in the Rose and Crown and he was on the Vodka.
Gilbey is most confidence player I have ever seen. If the team is playing well he will look great, when things are going badly he will be awful. The exact opposite to someone like Pratley who when things are going badly he will be in there fighting and battling.
It makes sense why he leaving and not Morgan. Gilbey best strengths is his fitness and running off the ball. No point having him to run past the strikers if the plan is to camp ourselves in their half.
Tbh, lack of goals in midfield was probably the number 1 issue from last season. I hoped that one of Gilbey and Morgan would leave as don’t think either of them have the capability to score the 7+ goals which Aribo got in our promotion season.
Gilbey at home to Ipswich I’d keep all day long but as others have said don’t do it enough plus been told he is a bad apple around the place. I’d give him one more chance
Gilbey at home to Ipswich I’d keep all day long but as others have said don’t do it enough plus been told he is a bad apple around the place. I’d give him one more chance
Ignoring his previous performances and rumour, counter rumour, and innuendo about his character, I look at usefulness.
Whatever system we play next season it's almost a cast iron certainty we will play with a 6 and two 8s next season, most of the time. We need a right footed 8 of at least the level of JFC/Fraser and cover/competition/options for Dobson. There isn't room for that and both Gilbey and Morgan, else we will be short elsewhere.
On the other hand Purrington offers competition as a full back and can play as a wing back or left sided center back if we had to.
Seth Plum and Covered end have history and are two very different characters. Knowing Covered end he wouldn't be a fan of *Samuel Becket and the world of the absurd which both Mr Plum and I visit at times. Covered end would never wait for Godot !
Only had one conversation with Seth in the Charlton cafe but he is a good guy and an individual. Covered end is normally the voice of reason even though we have polemic views on woman's football.
The good news for Seth and all Charlton fans is Ben Garner want all the Charlton teams from the youth to the 1st team to play the same way. This is a fine ambition but quite difficult to achieve because of the limitations of some players at our level.
Edit* I put Thomas Becket at first not Samuel, how completely absurd is that 🤦🏻♂️
And what you may not know is that they have season tickets together as well, all very strange.
People will see it as excuses, I see it as facts of what’s happened through his 2 years at the club. It’s not been an easy ride or plain sailing by any means.
I think because the argument is essentially along the lines of - Yes he has been poor for two seasons but it's not his fault.
Not really that fussed about Gilbey either way although Sage makes a well considered adult case for him staying in contrast to certain childish, privileged tantrums.
Equally, Gilbert hasn't impacted positively enough to justify his place in the side IMHO.
But three keys points.
Firstly, he's still under contract so even if we want to let him go he can stay.
Secondly, WIOTOS
Thirdly, why the feck is this on the Ben Garner, rather than the transfer rumours, thread?
I've only seen Gilbey have a good game on a handful of occasions. If we're replacing him, I wish him all the best, just hasn't worked out here for him so far
I like Gilbey, he seems like a really nice bloke who wants to do well for Charlton and on his day he's a very good player. Based on his output at Charlton though he's one of the last people you would want in a team all about retaining possession. He's an averages player - a difficult pass, a run with players in front of him, Gilbey tries the stuff that doesn't come off a lot of the time. When it works he breaks the lines and when it doesn't he loses the ball. Fine if you're playing that way but if we want to keep the ball then Gilbey isn't the man to do it. I think he'd benefit from a fresh start anyway. His confidence is clearly very low and when he loses the ball, which he'll always do, he doesn't seem to recover too well at the moment. If he stays great, I hope he does well, but I wouldn't be massively surprised if he's not the kind of midfielder that Garner wants.
I think the biggest factor facing Garner will be the expectation level. That goes for any of the so-called big clubs in League One. There is fan/media pressure from the start and early losses will be tough to deal with.
IMO best thing we can do as a fan base is to judge the performances rather than the results. If Garner is to change us into an attacking team it will take time. Two months is nowhere near enough. Nine months minimum to get us playing how he wants us to. Telling factor will be whether he's given the time to make an impact.
I like Gilbey, he seems like a really nice bloke who wants to do well for Charlton and on his day he's a very good player. Based on his output at Charlton though he's one of the last people you would want in a team all about retaining possession. He's an averages player - a difficult pass, a run with players in front of him, Gilbey tries the stuff that doesn't come off a lot of the time. When it works he breaks the lines and when it doesn't he loses the ball. Fine if you're playing that way but if we want to keep the ball then Gilbey isn't the man to do it. I think he'd benefit from a fresh start anyway. His confidence is clearly very low and when he loses the ball, which he'll always do, he doesn't seem to recover too well at the moment. If he stays great, I hope he does well, but I wouldn't be massively surprised if he's not the kind of midfielder that Garner wants.
They have ALL been a fucking liability at one point in a totally crap 3-4 years and THEREFORE should all be considered for the exit door.
If you ever watched a game you would realize that both Corey Blackett-Taylor and George Dobson have progressed but I realize you only come on CL to slag off so please carry on if that makes you happy.
Just on the BG piece about watching every game from last season, I remember Bielsa doing something similar when he took over at Leeds. It’s quite common and the modern way. If he can do half the job Bielsa did at Leeds we will be in a good place.
Regarding Gibby, as I now affectionately know him by thanks to the Cheltenham commentary team, average player that has been stop and start since joining us, I think there is better out there we could be looking at.
Comments
How come they didn't affect him during JJ's early run?
I can sympathise if people have personal stuff going on but I would honestly like us to build a team we don't have to make excuses for. Over the past few years it feels like it's constant.
It's the hiding that did it for me. Gilbey hides in the tough parts of the game and you cannot have a CM that does that and expect to be successful. (See our record for coming back from 1-0 down).
Also to hear about his personal life as after Marcus Maddison you wonder about home situation because fans/critics believe players are robots.
I spent more time defending Gilbey before his idiotic sending off because like you I believe he can play like the Ipswich home form and be a major player. Especially with a fit and healthy Fraser.
It was JJ who suffered the most with red cards for Alex even though a sharp Washington could've given Charlton 3 points against Lincoln. In a later match with Ryan Inniss with that Torpedo tackle after which caused more dropped points.
Unlike Alex Gilbey who I don't know, Jayden Stockley is a family man and is a great guy to talk to. A real gentle giant who only gets annoyed on the pitch at work when he gets rubbish passes over his head and not balls to run on to in and around the box. Both Aneke (goal against Morecambe) and Jayden would benefit from good wide play.
Also with midfielders or a partner nearer to him a ball to his chest or feet then Stockley will show that he is good at League 1 level though I will reserve judgement at championship level as that isn't a decision next season.
I want Ben Garner to have the casting vote on incoming and outgoing player transfers but as Rhoys Wiggins told me just months after he had to retire, football is political and many fans just don't understand what really goes on with owners, managers, coaches and scouts, let alone your own family situations. When you're in favour at a club it's a brilliant life when your form dips or injuries because of a myriad of different reasons it can be hell.
Sorry for the name dropping but I struggle with getting information 2nd hand even if when I hear it direct I wouldn't pass on certain comments unless said on Zoom or at a Addicks meeting when it's said to be shared.
No doubting he's not a nice guy, many footballers are :-)
Yes people will say the same about other players and Kirk for example, but the fact is they’re human beings, they all do have things going on, personally or professionally, that impact their performance. It’s no different to any of us.
Ive admitted his performances haven’t been great but there are mitigating factors that influence that level of performance. Personally, professionally, injuries, fitness, system, team mates, managers, confidence, abuse online… the point is, as football fans we quickly paint each player with the same brush of criticism without having any logical thought behind it.
Everyone will offer a different opinion but I stand on the side of having an informed opinion is better than outright criticism without anything constructive to add or improve. I feel in a 4-3-3 with the team set up to have more of the ball, Gilbey will do well. Whether he’s afforded that opportunity to prove it and prove himself is another matter entirely.
Grayson has just gone out to India for a manager's Job. Ronnie Moore may have mixed up Blackpool with Bengaluru fc !
It's like in the Spirit world when the mediums get a bad line and tell you your Auntie Peg who has passed wants you to get your bad back checked out. When you tell the medium, no Aunt Peg but you have an Uncle Pete, they retort, oh that's right uncle is coming through from the spirit world ?
When I said to the medium you are correct in some ways as I had just left Uncle Pete in the Rose and Crown and he was on the Vodka.
Whatever system we play next season it's almost a cast iron certainty we will play with a 6 and two 8s next season, most of the time. We need a right footed 8 of at least the level of JFC/Fraser and cover/competition/options for Dobson. There isn't room for that and both Gilbey and Morgan, else we will be short elsewhere.
On the other hand Purrington offers competition as a full back and can play as a wing back or left sided center back if we had to.
Equally, Gilbert hasn't impacted positively enough to justify his place in the side IMHO.
But three keys points.
Firstly, he's still under contract so even if we want to let him go he can stay.
Secondly, WIOTOS
Thirdly, why the feck is this on the Ben Garner, rather than the transfer rumours, thread?
IMO best thing we can do as a fan base is to judge the performances rather than the results. If Garner is to change us into an attacking team it will take time. Two months is nowhere near enough. Nine months minimum to get us playing how he wants us to. Telling factor will be whether he's given the time to make an impact.
Think that is where I am
If you ever watched a game you would realize that both Corey Blackett-Taylor and George Dobson have progressed but I realize you only come on CL to slag off so please carry on if that makes you happy.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44603058.amp