Let’s assume the Charlton job is/was between the two below. Blind CV, who you choosing?
Michael Beale:
Academy roles at Liverpool.
3 years as assistant manager at Rangers and Villa. One league title at Rangers, 25 points ahead of Celtic who were in a bit of a rebuild at the time.
Ben Garner:
Academy roles at Palace.
1st team coach at Palace, promoted to Premier League in first season in that role (Holloway was manager).
Two years as a Premier League first team coach at Palace, finishing 11th and 10th (worked under three different managers during that period).
West Brom first team coach in the Premier League, 10th place finish.
Manager at Bristol Rovers in League One. Sacked in November.
Manager at Swindon in League Two lose on penalties in playoff semi-finals.
Impossible to make a decision unless you know what calibre of players he had compared to the rest of the teams ect. Do people think managers control the players on strings/computer game controller or something?
Let’s assume the Charlton job is/was between the two below. Blind CV, who you choosing?
Michael Beale:
Academy roles at Liverpool.
3 years as assistant manager at Rangers and Villa. One league title at Rangers, 25 points ahead of Celtic who were in a bit of a rebuild at the time.
Ben Garner:
Academy roles at Palace.
1st team coach at Palace, promoted to Premier League in first season in that role (Holloway was manager).
Two years as a Premier League first team coach at Palace, finishing 11th and 10th (worked under three different managers during that period).
West Brom first team coach in the Premier League, 10th place finish.
Manager at Bristol Rovers in League One. Sacked in November.
Manager at Swindon in League Two lose on penalties in playoff semi-finals.
Impossible to make a decision unless you know what calibre of players he had compared to the rest of the teams ect. Do people think managers control the players on strings/computer game controller or something?
No of course not but it’s not a guessing game when it comes to the calibre of players is it?
Even with a basic knowledge, we know Rangers had a top two squad in the SPL, as they always do. Villa probably achieved their level this year but have pumped some serious cash in, e.g Coutinho.
We know that Palace and West Brom achieving mid-table in the Premier League is a solid achievement, especially West Brom. Even Palace did it in their first year up with Garner as first team coach.
At Bristol Rivers we know Garner was tasked with stripping the squad and playing academy players by the owner. It didn’t work for him or Tisdale there and Joey Barton is finally rebuilding the club two years later.
We know that at Swindon, this time last year they had seven players and were virtually bust. Garner took them to within a penalty kick of Wembley.
After listening to his podcast, he seems to really know his stuff to be fair to him
Why wouldn’t he though? A lot of younger coaches especially do. The FA courses are brilliant these days, not just the official progression routes but there’s a lot of additional CPD events and courses you can do as well (edit: they’re not easy either after Level 1) Sounds like he’s also made the effort to travel a lot and spend time with other clubs and coaches. Believe he mentioned he spent some time with Bielsa at Leeds too just observing.
one penalty miss away from getting Swindon into the play off final .. seems relaxed and self assured when interviewed .. IF given some money I would expect him to build a very decent team/squad .. IF appointed he will have my backing .. not an appointment I anticipated, but there again I didn't know who to expect .. and people, we ARE NOT getting Conté, Pip, Klopp or crackle and pop to come and manage an underperforming club .. Garner knows the lower leagues and its players .. we will be undergoing a big player turnover and he (as said) is well capable of signing the right players .. IF IF appointed I expect him to do a decent job .. as ever we will see
We will see.
18 months of managerial experience is not exactly vast. As ever, I wonder who is advising Sandgaard. I am not suggesting that Garner is not or will not be good; time will tell. I would just like to know how the owner has reached the decision.
I'm sure TS said he'd spoken to Parish over at Palace before before he bought the club asking for advice.
Think he's an admirer of BG too, so assuming those lines of communication remain open, he might have been a recommendation from him.
Guessing he must have interviewed well if the 90 minute podcast is anything to go by.
You have an owner and son wishing to dictate to seasoned professionals the style of play, a much lesser than normally expected input into player recruitment, this really is no different to the infamous email from RD and the diamond formation to Powell and how players were brought in. TS is a just a bit more friendly/cuddly and here (more!)
THIS FRIGHTENS ME A LOT
And I fear it is very very true.
To compound this I was a bit worried with Garner being excited about his brief at Bristol Rovers, which I suspect will be similar at Charlton. This hardly smacks of a promotion push from the get go. He seems like a cracking bloke, but I do hope he isn't too malleable. It cost him his job at Rovers, he'll need to stand up to TS and Son, because football managers are measured by success not building blocks.
So my remit going in was to change the style of play, build infrastructure – both in terms of facilities and staff – lower the wage bill, generate profits in transfer fees, bring in young players who could be developed and, over time, build a team that could challenge for promotion. It was a good fit for me, and I was excited by the challenge.
one penalty miss away from getting Swindon into the play off final .. seems relaxed and self assured when interviewed .. IF given some money I would expect him to build a very decent team/squad .. IF appointed he will have my backing .. not an appointment I anticipated, but there again I didn't know who to expect .. and people, we ARE NOT getting Conté, Pip, Klopp or crackle and pop to come and manage an underperforming club .. Garner knows the lower leagues and its players .. we will be undergoing a big player turnover and he (as said) is well capable of signing the right players .. IF IF appointed I expect him to do a decent job .. as ever we will see
We will see.
18 months of managerial experience is not exactly vast. As ever, I wonder who is advising Sandgaard. I am not suggesting that Garner is not or will not be good; time will tell. I would just like to know how the owner has reached the decision.
I'm sure TS said he'd spoken to Parish over at Palace before before he bought the club asking for advice.
Think he's an admirer of BG too, so assuming those lines of communication remain open, he might have been a recommendation from him.
Guessing he must have interviewed well if the 90 minute podcast is anything to go by.
Whether we agree or not, Sandgaard and Garner appear to have a lot in common in how they believe a club should be run and the future of football in this country. If we’re going to be successful we need an owner and manager that have a shared philosophy.
Never heard of the guy before yesterday...but the more I read about Ben Garner the more he sounds like a good choice. After watching the complete dross and shit show of last season , anyone who can install tactics and attacking football into the team deserves a chance... does he like walking ? Hopefully with a few additions to go with the spine of Lavell, Clare, Dobson, Fraser, CBT, Aneke and Stockley he can at least install some flair and tactics to the stodge of last year..... he can't do worse than Adkins and Jackson
After listening to his podcast, he seems to really know his stuff to be fair to him
Why wouldn’t he though? A lot of younger coaches especially do. The FA courses are brilliant these days, not just the official progression routes but there’s a lot of additional CPD events and courses you can do as well (edit: they’re not easy either after Level 1) Sounds like he’s also made the effort to travel a lot and spend time with other clubs and coaches. Believe he mentioned he spent some time with Bielsa at Leeds too just observing.
This Palace thing really irritates me. Yes I dislike them as a club and their fans intensely but for gods sake hating employees is ludicrous. Worth remembering that Palace as much as it hurts to say it are exactly what we should be trying to emulate. They are literally light years ahead of us. Garner worked for them during a successful spell. That’s a positive for us if he comes. Hate Garner for his Palace connection and I’d expect the same hatred for Chris Powell ? No. Thought not.
one penalty miss away from getting Swindon into the play off final .. seems relaxed and self assured when interviewed .. IF given some money I would expect him to build a very decent team/squad .. IF appointed he will have my backing .. not an appointment I anticipated, but there again I didn't know who to expect .. and people, we ARE NOT getting Conté, Pip, Klopp or crackle and pop to come and manage an underperforming club .. Garner knows the lower leagues and its players .. we will be undergoing a big player turnover and he (as said) is well capable of signing the right players .. IF IF appointed I expect him to do a decent job .. as ever we will see
We will see.
18 months of managerial experience is not exactly vast. As ever, I wonder who is advising Sandgaard. I am not suggesting that Garner is not or will not be good; time will tell. I would just like to know how the owner has reached the decision.
I'm sure TS said he'd spoken to Parish over at Palace before before he bought the club asking for advice.
Think he's an admirer of BG too, so assuming those lines of communication remain open, he might have been a recommendation from him.
Guessing he must have interviewed well if the 90 minute podcast is anything to go by.
Whether we agree or not, Sandgaard and Garner appear to have a lot in common in how they believe a club should be run and the future of football in this country. If we’re going to be successful we need an owner and manager that have a shared philosophy.
If we want to be successful we need the whole Club and the fans traveling in the same direction.
I have to say, I’d be fairly happy with that, say if he had those attacking stats and got promoted then we would all be buzzing, his clearly impressive season was decided on a penalties.
This is the way I’m viewing it, if we were a prem side and were on the verge of appointing the manager who had lost in the play offs but had the highest attacking stats in the championship, would we be displeased? Same as if we were championship looking to appoint the league 1 equivalent? I personally think in both scenarios it would potentially be a positive appointment.
Watford have just appointed the league 2 champions manager, on I imagine a far higher budget than us. I think sometimes we need to be a bit more realIstic.
Just to add a bit more I checked Swindon’s head to head against the other ‘top’ sides in the division.
6/6 points against FGR 0/6 points against Exeter 4/6 points against Bristol Rovers 4/6 points against Northampton 3/6 points against Port Vale 3/6 points against Mansfield
for me that’s quite positive in itself that he was getting results against sides with better sides and bigger budgets. It’s such fine margins that had he beat Exeter and bettered a result elsewhere then Swindon would be taking Exeter’s spot with far more impressive ‘attacking’ football stats. I am making this comparison to Exeter as the general consensus seems to be, if we had appointed Taylor it would have been a sensible appointment.
if Garner is THE man I welcome him and look forward to seeing Charlton play attacking, possession based football for the first time in who knows how long
Comments
Even with a basic knowledge, we know Rangers had a top two squad in the SPL, as they always do. Villa probably achieved their level this year but have pumped some serious cash in, e.g Coutinho.
We know that Palace and West Brom achieving mid-table in the Premier League is a solid achievement, especially West Brom. Even Palace did it in their first year up with Garner as first team coach.
At Bristol Rivers we know Garner was tasked with stripping the squad and playing academy players by the owner. It didn’t work for him or Tisdale there and Joey Barton is finally rebuilding the club two years later.
We know that at Swindon, this time last year they had seven players and were virtually bust. Garner took them to within a penalty kick of Wembley.
The song can return 🕺
Think he's an admirer of BG too, so assuming those lines of communication remain open, he might have been a recommendation from him.
Guessing he must have interviewed well if the 90 minute podcast is anything to go by.
Oh and some old bollocks about managers….
So my remit going in was to change the style of play, build infrastructure – both in terms of facilities and staff – lower the wage bill, generate profits in transfer fees, bring in young players who could be developed and, over time, build a team that could challenge for promotion. It was a good fit for me, and I was excited by the challenge.
Hopefully with a few additions to go with the spine of Lavell, Clare, Dobson, Fraser, CBT, Aneke and Stockley he can at least install some flair and tactics to the stodge of last year..... he can't do worse than Adkins and Jackson
0/6 points against Exeter
4/6 points against Bristol Rovers
4/6 points against Northampton
3/6 points against Port Vale
3/6 points against Mansfield
for me that’s quite positive in itself that he was getting results against sides with better sides and bigger budgets. It’s such fine margins that had he beat Exeter and bettered a result elsewhere then Swindon would be taking Exeter’s spot with far more impressive ‘attacking’ football stats. I am making this comparison to Exeter as the general consensus seems to be, if we had appointed Taylor it would have been a sensible appointment.
if Garner is THE man I welcome him and look forward to seeing Charlton play attacking, possession based football for the first time in who knows how long