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Sorry but Jackson has to go.

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  • Appalling final game of the season. Still attempting to play this laughable 3-5-2 formation without the personnel to do so. What message does this send to the younger players (Kanu and Co) when Jackson sticks with his favourites who have no heart and no guts? Three donkeys in defence and Morgan and Gilbey by-passed in midfield. Created very little with no pace upfront. Embarrassed for those who travelled. We have to make a lot of changes to really improve next season and I can't see Sandgaard spending the money or Jackson the balls to do it.

    If the nucleus of this side is still here in August, I won't be wasting more money on them.
    What formation would you play out of interest?
    4-4-2
    A flat 4-4-2?

    one of my friends has been a youth coach for a few years now and this year has broken through into the mens game at non league level (higher but not highest levels). I was talking to him about 4-4-2 and he said it isn't mentioned anymore when doing coaching badges as the midfield gets overran. They still teach it at youth level though 
    Any formation would be better than a 3-5-2 we simply can't play with this squad. 
    Like Adkins 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 that worked so well.
  • rikofold said:
    Enough is enough for me. I can't see us getting promoted next season with Jackson in charge. He simply can't motivate his players and tactically he looks clueless. His obsession with 3-5-2 has cost us a shed load of points this season and there is no excuse for the 'bothered/can't be bothered' second-half of the season. We need the biggest clearout we can afford and I would put my money on someone else. It's too important a role to get wrong for yet another season.
    For what it's worth, my view is that Jackson went with 352 because it's the best formation for the players in his squad. Washington and Stockley have to play together, and the 433 didn't work at all for us, cost us our season. 

    Yesterday only JFC turned up. It was a shameful end of season nothing on it performance, shameful because nearly 2000 fans travelled and we deserved at least some effort. 

    We can't play with 2 centre halves because we have no pace at the back, and Clare's absence yesterday showed that up with endless balls between the centre halves and the wing backs.

    If the formation is going to change and we're going to get the best out of our wingers - and DJ and CBT are very decent going forward - we need a proper midfield. JFC and Dobson might be it, but you can't afford Gilbey showing up for 10 minutes a game, or Morgan putting 2 decent balls in out of 10 a game.

    I would stick with Jacko, but we need pace at the back, we need the best central midfielder in the division. 

    Personally I'd aim for 442, perhaps a diamond, or 4312, but we'd need to bring in two quick full backs and a dominant reliable centre half with a bit of pace about him. We'd need a mobile and creative centre mid, perhaps one out and out winger or a decent number 10, and a quick striker who has goals about him. 

    When I think back to the play off winning team, we had Bauer and Djiksteel offering pace at the back, and Purrington was mobile enough to get up and down the pitch too. We had a much stronger set of players in midfield. 

    I'd ditch Gilbey and Morgan, I'd lose Innis and Pearce, probably Matthews as well. I'd not look to retain any of the loans.

    But I do believe Jacko has enough to be successful if he's backed and not hamstrung by silly loans foistered upon him. Give him and Gallen their heads, get the squad he wants, and then judge him. This season's squad was far from good enough, notwithstanding that the injuries to our strikers mid-season put paid to any chance of finishing higher than we did. His points per game ratio would have us on 82 points - one place outside the play offs - and that's with an inadequate squad built by an experienced manager who could only get 6 points in 13 games from them. 
    Agree with all of that but we won't get promoted playing two from Stockley, Washington and Aneke. They are rarely all available at the same time and Stockley with 13 was bettered by ten other players this season. We need one or two in the top five, particularly when we don't have regular goals from midfield. Only six sides scored less than us this season.
  • Appalling final game of the season. Still attempting to play this laughable 3-5-2 formation without the personnel to do so. What message does this send to the younger players (Kanu and Co) when Jackson sticks with his favourites who have no heart and no guts? Three donkeys in defence and Morgan and Gilbey by-passed in midfield. Created very little with no pace upfront. Embarrassed for those who travelled. We have to make a lot of changes to really improve next season and I can't see Sandgaard spending the money or Jackson the balls to do it.

    If the nucleus of this side is still here in August, I won't be wasting more money on them.
    What formation would you play out of interest?
    4-4-2
    A flat 4-4-2?

    one of my friends has been a youth coach for a few years now and this year has broken through into the mens game at non league level (higher but not highest levels). I was talking to him about 4-4-2 and he said it isn't mentioned anymore when doing coaching badges as the midfield gets overran. They still teach it at youth level though 
    Any formation would be better than a 3-5-2 we simply can't play with this squad. 
    I'm a 4-4-2 man, talking to the coach about how dated it was, was an eye opener.

    I have no clue as to what the best formation is for us moving forward, but whatever it is, we need players that can play it. I think this squad is poor and it doesn't matter if we play 3-5-2, 4-4-2 or Mike bassets Christmas tree formation, we need an overhaul (again) this summer. 
  • Powell’s was a miracle once in a lifetime season , we won’t get over 100 points next season 
    First and foremost League One is a lot stronger now... that season it was Charlton | Sheff Wed | Sheff Utd | Huddersfield who were realistically the main four teams looking at the title race, even 2018/19 there were only really five teams (no discredit to Doncaster) who could have reached the top two.

    Next season though and realistically your already looking at the two of the three teams that come down, maybe even Derby if they can recover a bit like how Sheff Wed have done this season - The three teams that miss out in the Play-Offs will surely be back in contention; Plymouth might struggle to replicate their form next term

    But then there are the likes of Oxford | Portsmouth | Bolton | Ipswich | Charlton who missed out or weren't involved this season.

    Your nearly looking at half the League who could go into next term with the target being a shot at the title

    I know the points gained this season was ridiculous, and Wigan / Rotherham still managed to reach 90-pts themselves

    But if there is a team out there that can get 100-pts, then that is a monster of a team at this level
  • edited May 2022
    Scoham said:
    It shows Jackson can’t truly be judged on this season. This squad is nowhere near top 6 quality whoever the manager is.

    I’d like to see what Jackson could do but part of me feels we might benefit more from a good coach who is more suited to working with what he’s given, someone like Michael Beale.
     This in a nutshell.
    All this talk about getting all of the players he needs is fantasy in league one with a modest budget,which I'm certain we have.
    Remember also our dismal injury record, which has been awful for many seasons now.

    The best coaches at this level have to make it work with whatever they have.
    He's already had one window and that was a mitigated disaster. Pains me to say it, but I've got some real doubts about him being able to pull this off.
  • Scoham said:
    FAVADDICK said:
    Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
    Said this before but by that logic that suggests you feel this squad is good enough and is only missing the right manager, so why not keep them together and just replace Jackson? Gilbey and Morgan as regulars can take us up, right?

    Said this before but, Matthews, Inniss, Famewo, Pearce, JFC, Gilbey, DJ, Morgan,  Stockley and Washington finished 7th last season.

    Was Ian maatsen and Millar (who didn't join until Jan) really that good that they were able to carry all of those mid table players to the dizzy heights of 7th?  Or were they coached better/ used more effectively? 


  • Appalling final game of the season. Still attempting to play this laughable 3-5-2 formation without the personnel to do so. What message does this send to the younger players (Kanu and Co) when Jackson sticks with his favourites who have no heart and no guts? Three donkeys in defence and Morgan and Gilbey by-passed in midfield. Created very little with no pace upfront. Embarrassed for those who travelled. We have to make a lot of changes to really improve next season and I can't see Sandgaard spending the money or Jackson the balls to do it.

    If the nucleus of this side is still here in August, I won't be wasting more money on them.
    What formation would you play out of interest?
    4-4-2
    A flat 4-4-2?

    one of my friends has been a youth coach for a few years now and this year has broken through into the mens game at non league level (higher but not highest levels). I was talking to him about 4-4-2 and he said it isn't mentioned anymore when doing coaching badges as the midfield gets overran. They still teach it at youth level though 
    Any formation would be better than a 3-5-2 we simply can't play with this squad. 
    I'm a 4-4-2 man, talking to the coach about how dated it was, was an eye opener.

    I have no clue as to what the best formation is for us moving forward, but whatever it is, we need players that can play it. I think this squad is poor and it doesn't matter if we play 3-5-2, 4-4-2 or Mike bassets Christmas tree formation, we need an overhaul (again) this summer. 
    You can't play a flat 442 unless your players are ridiculously better than the opposition.  Simply because almost everyone plays 433 or 352 or versions of and your 2 central midfielders will just get totally over run by the 3.  Your extra man is most likely to be a center half or a full back.

    The starting point is the 3 midfielders and what roles you want them to do.  Not just chuck 3 in there who are notionally midfielders.  That's what we have done for the last two seasons and it doesn't work, at all.  Gilbey has had about 5 different roles in 5 different formations.  League 1 players aren't good enough to do that.

    After doing that there is no right or wrong way to go as long as you have the players to play the roles you need and provide the other qualities all good teams have. 
  • Scoham said:
    FAVADDICK said:
    Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
    Said this before but by that logic that suggests you feel this squad is good enough and is only missing the right manager, so why not keep them together and just replace Jackson? Gilbey and Morgan as regulars can take us up, right?

    Said this before but, Matthews, Inniss, Famewo, Pearce, JFC, Gilbey, DJ, Morgan,  Stockley and Washington finished 7th last season.

    Was Ian maatsen and Millar (who didn't join until Jan) really that good that they were able to carry all of those mid table players to the dizzy heights of 7th?  Or were they coached better/ used more effectively? 


    Last seasons squad was better, our poor recruitment weakened us when maintaining our squad was the minimum required.

    Maatsen better than Souare
    Amos better than CM
    Millar replaced Doughty, both better than Kirk (for us)
    Aneke better than no one
    JFC better than any of our CMs this season
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  • We need a consistent settled defensive line for one.

    And a midfield that wins, retains the ball creates chances. Ultimately the amount of times we turned over the ball cheaply then gave away silly fouls got bookings conceded goals from has been shambolic

    Dobson highlighted as one of our best performers because of the amount of work he had to put in because of the others. 

    I think from the get go we wasn't sure if we wanted to be a possession team or be more direct in the 4-3-3 which works wonders if you have fit active players. 

    But the in Jacko's system we need to play though the thirds as well and it was evident our defensive players are not comfortable in doing that so led to us lumping it to stockley's head or Washington to chase. 

  • edited May 2022
    Scoham said:
    Scoham said:
    FAVADDICK said:
    Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
    Said this before but by that logic that suggests you feel this squad is good enough and is only missing the right manager, so why not keep them together and just replace Jackson? Gilbey and Morgan as regulars can take us up, right?

    Said this before but, Matthews, Inniss, Famewo, Pearce, JFC, Gilbey, DJ, Morgan,  Stockley and Washington finished 7th last season.

    Was Ian maatsen and Millar (who didn't join until Jan) really that good that they were able to carry all of those mid table players to the dizzy heights of 7th?  Or were they coached better/ used more effectively? 


    Last seasons squad was better, our poor recruitment weakened us when maintaining our squad was the minimum required.

    Maatsen better than Souare
    Amos better than CM
    Millar replaced Doughty, both better than Kirk (for us)
    Aneke better than no one
    JFC better than any of our CMs this season

    But it wasn't better was it, the squad is essentially the same.

    Doughty had a handful of games before being injured and sold in Jan, he was replaced by Smyth. 

    Millar came in for Smyth for half a season.

    Maatsen looked like a lost boy for the most part until the second half of the season.

    Bogle up front.

    Shinnie with JFC and Pratley/ Watson (when Pratley wasn't at CB with Gunter)

    Amos
    Matthews
    Gunter
    Inniss
    Framewo
    Pearce
    Purrington
    Maatsen
    Jfc
    Pratley
    Watson
    Levitt
    Morgan
    Gilbey
    Shinnie
    Doughty
    Millar
    Smith
    DJ
    Smyth
    Washington
    Stockley
    Bogle
    Aneke.

    14 players out of  the 24 that took part last season started this. 14 from 20 that ended the season. 

    Yeah, I'm convinced, completely different squads.

    I agree recruitment was shit, it didn't replace the decent outgoiy players with similar quality and add the extra needed to go from 7 to 3rd.

    But, the core squad, well, that was still here. If 3 players carried us for the entire season when one of them was only here for half of it, then that's more damning on Jackson than anything, because if those mid table players made it to touching distance of the playoffs with just one half a seasons worth of quality in Millar and poorly coached by the useless Adkins, then man, come on Jacko....
  • Scoham said:
    Scoham said:
    FAVADDICK said:
    Just look at where forest were when Cooper took over, now they wasn't his players, or his formation but he adapted and look where they are now, just shows how low we have become and what some fans will accept, Jackson is no manager I'm sorry to say, his formation his tactics are all potless and this is not going to improve, and people thinking we're going to replicate the powell season, you need to get your head out of the sand that was a one off.
    Said this before but by that logic that suggests you feel this squad is good enough and is only missing the right manager, so why not keep them together and just replace Jackson? Gilbey and Morgan as regulars can take us up, right?

    Said this before but, Matthews, Inniss, Famewo, Pearce, JFC, Gilbey, DJ, Morgan,  Stockley and Washington finished 7th last season.

    Was Ian maatsen and Millar (who didn't join until Jan) really that good that they were able to carry all of those mid table players to the dizzy heights of 7th?  Or were they coached better/ used more effectively? 


    Last seasons squad was better, our poor recruitment weakened us when maintaining our squad was the minimum required.

    Maatsen better than Souare
    Amos better than CM
    Millar replaced Doughty, both better than Kirk (for us)
    Aneke better than no one
    JFC better than any of our CMs this season

    But it wasn't better was it, the squad is essentially the same.

    Doughty had a handful of games before being injured and sold in Jan, he was replaced by Smyth. 

    Millar came in for Smyth for half a season.

    Maatsen looked like a lost boy for the most part until the second half of the season.

    Bogle up front.

    Shinnie with JFC and Pratley/ Watson (when Pratley wasn't at CB with Gunter)

    Amos
    Matthews
    Gunter
    Inniss
    Framewo
    Pearce
    Purrington
    Maatsen
    Jfc
    Pratley
    Watson
    Levitt
    Morgan
    Gilbey
    Shinnie
    Doughty
    Millar
    Smith
    DJ
    Smyth
    Washington
    Stockley
    Bogle
    Aneke.

    14 players out of  the 24 that took part last season started this. 14 from 20 that ended the season. 

    Yeah, I'm convinced, completely different squads.

    I agree recruitment was shit, it didn't replace the decent outgoiy players with similar quality and add the extra needed to go from 7 to 3rd.

    But, the core squad, well, that was still here. If 3 players carried us for the entire season when one of them was only here for half of it, then that's more damning on Jackson than anything, because if those mid table players made it to touching distance of the playoffs with just one half a seasons worth of quality in Millar and poorly coached by the useless Adkins, then man, come on Jacko....
    Agree the bulk of the squad is similar but it’s weaker in terms of goalscorers which makes a huge difference.

    Last season in the league we scored 70 and conceded 56.

    This season in the league scored 55 conceded 59.

    Aneke made 38 league appearances in 20/21, scored 15, this season 9 scoring 4. JFC scored 6 last season.

    We saw what happened when we were without Stockley, Washington and Aneke. Keeping them fit was even more important with a lack of goal threats in midfield.
  • edited May 2022
    Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.

    Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.

    Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all. 
  • 18 pages in and still not a sensible suggestion for a new manager should jj go
    Appleton.
  • We are still a basket case of a club so I am not convinced we could attract anyone decent.
  • We are still a basket case of a club so I am not convinced we could attract anyone decent.
    I’m more concerned we wouldn’t pay the going rate for anyone decent.
  • There is still much to be concerned about. Equally, I'm worried about Stockley and Washington missing open goals, sitters, penalties of late.
  • mendonca said:
    There is still much to be concerned about. Equally, I'm worried about Stockley and Washington missing open goals, sitters, penalties of late.
    Of course, I wasn’t saying that was our only issue.
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  • Cafc43v3r said:
    Appalling final game of the season. Still attempting to play this laughable 3-5-2 formation without the personnel to do so. What message does this send to the younger players (Kanu and Co) when Jackson sticks with his favourites who have no heart and no guts? Three donkeys in defence and Morgan and Gilbey by-passed in midfield. Created very little with no pace upfront. Embarrassed for those who travelled. We have to make a lot of changes to really improve next season and I can't see Sandgaard spending the money or Jackson the balls to do it.

    If the nucleus of this side is still here in August, I won't be wasting more money on them.
    What formation would you play out of interest?
    4-4-2
    A flat 4-4-2?

    one of my friends has been a youth coach for a few years now and this year has broken through into the mens game at non league level (higher but not highest levels). I was talking to him about 4-4-2 and he said it isn't mentioned anymore when doing coaching badges as the midfield gets overran. They still teach it at youth level though 
    Any formation would be better than a 3-5-2 we simply can't play with this squad. 
    I'm a 4-4-2 man, talking to the coach about how dated it was, was an eye opener.

    I have no clue as to what the best formation is for us moving forward, but whatever it is, we need players that can play it. I think this squad is poor and it doesn't matter if we play 3-5-2, 4-4-2 or Mike bassets Christmas tree formation, we need an overhaul (again) this summer. 
    You can't play a flat 442 unless your players are ridiculously better than the opposition.  Simply because almost everyone plays 433 or 352 or versions of and your 2 central midfielders will just get totally over run by the 3.  Your extra man is most likely to be a center half or a full back.

    The starting point is the 3 midfielders and what roles you want them to do.  Not just chuck 3 in there who are notionally midfielders.  That's what we have done for the last two seasons and it doesn't work, at all.  Gilbey has had about 5 different roles in 5 different formations.  League 1 players aren't good enough to do that.

    After doing that there is no right or wrong way to go as long as you have the players to play the roles you need and provide the other qualities all good teams have. 
    I really wish Jacko had tried the diamond. Ok our midfield isn't the best and without Fraser it would be more difficult, but I think we should have given it a go. We didn't have the wing-backs and as good as CBT has been, I'd like to have seen what a diamond of Dobson, Gilbey/Morgan, Fraser and Lee could have done. 

    We obviously need a couple of quality wing-backs and centre-backs, but signing a box to box midfielder to play with Fraser and Dobson will be key. 
  • Scoham said:
    mendonca said:
    There is still much to be concerned about. Equally, I'm worried about Stockley and Washington missing open goals, sitters, penalties of late.
    Of course, I wasn’t saying that was our only issue.
    Understand :-) 

    We do seem averse to paying the going rate for players. We've also made some signings once other teams started to focus on our targets.

  • Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.

    Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.

    Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all. 
    70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable. 
  • The average to get into the playoffs is 74.5, so this year is a proper outlier 
  • Rothko said:
    The average to get into the playoffs is 74.5, so this year is a proper outlier 
    No need to discuss play offs, we have been promised top two
  • edited May 2022
    se9addick said:
    Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.

    Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.

    Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all. 
    70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable. 
    First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.

    If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.

    That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.

    This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.

    In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).

    Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.

    70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.


    Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
  • se9addick said:
    Jacko’s PPG averaged out to about 70 points across a full season.

    Last season we got 75 points with a full season of Aneke and Forster-Caskey who it turns out are probably still the best players at the club.

    Jacko got four starts out of Chuks and one start out of Forster-Caskey. To only be five points short of the season previous (measured by PPG) given the less than inspiring summer recruitment isn’t that bad at all. 
    70 points would leave us 11th which, even with injuries to a couple of key players, is not acceptable. 
    First let me say that I agree. Anything short of top six is a failure of a season.

    If we thought last season was a weird one when we missed out on playoffs with 75, spare a thought for Plymouth who missed out this year on 80.

    That’s the reason I’m deliberately judging individual seasons on points gained rather than by league position.

    This season, 70 points would be 11th. Last year it would be 9th.

    In 18/19 it would’ve been enough for 8th. In 17/18 it would’ve been enough for 7th (we finished 6th on 71).

    Five years ago, 8th. The season before that 8th. In 14/15, 70 points would’ve finished 6th and in 13/14 another 7th.

    70 points tends to finish 7th-9th.


    Again, my opinion is that anything less than 6th is a failure of a season for this club. But I hand on heart don’t believe Jacko is the problem here. A better summer of signings and I believe both Adkins and Jackson would’ve had a better time of it.
    So 75 points is a failed one season but an achievement in another?

    This year the play offs points needed is massive but some bloody good teams (for this level) missed out.

    I don't believe Jackson is the main problem either, for what it's worth, my biggest worry is he won't be given the chance to be a solution either.  I still think the same about Adkins.
  • edited May 2022
    Rothko said:
    The average to get into the playoffs is 74.5, so this year is a proper outlier 
    No need to discuss play offs, we have been promised top two
    I think he said the aim is top two. 

  • With the teams coming down and the teams left behind I think 80 will become the new norm for a few seasons to come.
  • Sorry but Jackson definitely has to go!

    For half a season now with Jackson in sole charge (since the away game at Plymouth) the week before Christmas, we have had nothing but sub standard embarrassing performances.

    We have lost to a succession of teams, all in or around the relegation places. 
    Jackson’s body language says it all.
    He looks like a beaten man. He doesn’t inspire the fan base and he certainly doesn’t inspire the players.

    If Jackson is still in charge for the start of next season I fear that we will be served up another season of mediocre football, and another season stuck in League 1.
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