Saw a bit of talk about the timing of signings, here's a comparison to our two L1 promotion seasons.
We're ahead of 18/19, but Bowyer only made 6 signings in total. I think we'd all agree this squad needs more than that. Bowyer's signings were:
Taylor - 27 June Pratley - 17 July Steer - 10 August Bielik - 16 August Cullen - 30 August Ward - 31 August
This season starts a week earlier than usual but on the other hand there's now a squad cap in place. Therefore it may be a case of not completing potential signings until we know we can move certain players on. Davison and Clayden stick out with them being too old to count as u21s while others such as Kirk and Gilbey could leave too.
Powell got started early with Hollands and Pritchard joining 24 May and Sullivan 31 May. You could be generous to the current set up and argue the latter two weren't major signings given Pritchard was a punt and Sullivan a backup goalkeeper.
That would mean by 28 June Powell had made 3 first team signings with Hayes and Evina coming in on 21 June, same as we have so far this summer. However after that there was a flurry of four signings in three days with Green and Stephens on 29 June, Wiggins a day later and Taylor on 1 July.
Morrison signed on 10 July, Hamer and Hughes 1 August, Euell 10 August (though he was another that wasn't a key signing, at least not on the pitch).
Cort joined on loan 29 August and finally Yann signed on 14 September.
In addition that summer we also signed three youngsters in Pope, Bover and Smith, plus Alonso who never played in the league for us.
We won't be signing anywhere near 19 players, but if we move some on it wouldn't be surprising to see us get into double figures. We may need a few u21 loans to be able to do that under the cap. Hopefully we'll have a few more in the next couple of weeks rather than needing so many towards the end of the window as we saw last year.
Yann is the one that proves is not about when you sign, it's about who you sign. He joined a month into the season, but was the magic dust that turned that team from good into special. Didn't matter if he joined then or 1st June, key thing was we got him and he was absolute mustard.
I've said for a while and still believe that the squad won't be "complete" or fully balanced at the end of this window, certainly not if you only look at permanent players.
But I do think it's going to be considerably closer than it is now and should be a squad that Garner's actually chosen not one he's been given, as Adkins was.
I've said for a while and still believe that the squad won't be "complete" or fully balanced at the end of this window, certainly not if you only look at permanent players.
But I do think it's going to be considerably closer than it is now and should be a squad that Garner's actually chosen not one he's been given, as Adkins was.
You could argue that’s true for most clubs in this league as I as expect the majority will have at least two or three loan players.
There is nothing wrong with having loan players in the squad if utilised correctly. There possibly cheaper if the loaning team covers the salary so you could have a talented player for nothing. Okay they could come with clauses to say how much they have to play etc. Its just worth doing if they can be used correctly.
I've said for a while and still believe that the squad won't be "complete" or fully balanced at the end of this window, certainly not if you only look at permanent players.
But I do think it's going to be considerably closer than it is now and should be a squad that Garner's actually chosen not one he's been given, as Adkins was.
You could argue that’s true for most clubs in this league as I as expect the majority will have at least two or three loan players.
Yes, that's exactly the point I'm making. We can all make our lists of what we need, CM, LB etc etc but chances are some of those will be filled up by loans later on.
BUT that's not inherently a sign of bad management or a poor window, it's just the nature of the game at this level at this time.
I've said for a while and still believe that the squad won't be "complete" or fully balanced at the end of this window, certainly not if you only look at permanent players.
But I do think it's going to be considerably closer than it is now and should be a squad that Garner's actually chosen not one he's been given, as Adkins was.
You could argue that’s true for most clubs in this league as I as expect the majority will have at least two or three loan players.
Yes, that's exactly the point I'm making. We can all make our lists of what we need, CM, LB etc etc but chances are some of those will be filled up by loans later on.
BUT that's not inherently a sign of bad management or a poor window, it's just the nature of the game at this level at this time.
It is but it would be nice to have a team. Using left back as an example, we need one before the season starts even if the second one arrives on loan later on.
I've said for a while and still believe that the squad won't be "complete" or fully balanced at the end of this window, certainly not if you only look at permanent players.
But I do think it's going to be considerably closer than it is now and should be a squad that Garner's actually chosen not one he's been given, as Adkins was.
You could argue that’s true for most clubs in this league as I as expect the majority will have at least two or three loan players.
Yes, that's exactly the point I'm making. We can all make our lists of what we need, CM, LB etc etc but chances are some of those will be filled up by loans later on.
BUT that's not inherently a sign of bad management or a poor window, it's just the nature of the game at this level at this time.
It is but it would be nice to have a team. Using left back as an example, we need one before the season starts even if the second one arrives on loan later on.
Left back is a great example. It's perfectly understandable to have JFC, center back, youth team player, right back or someone else play left back during an injury/suspension crisis. Its not to start the season, two years in a row, to start the season without a left back.
It really doesn't matter if you bring the Evina in first and the Wiggins later, even if the season is 3 or 4 games old, but you have got to have at least one when you start, haven't you?
It would be nice yes but with the squad cap and increased reliance on domestic players it's realistically going to be very hard to do.
I'm fairly sure left back will be a priority as we currently don't have any senior specialist LB but while we would all LIKE to have (for arguments sake) a goal scoring midfielder, a versatile striker and maybe a proper left sided CB chances are we will have to prioritize one or two of those over the rest.
It would be a genuine surprise to me if whoever gets promoted this year DOESN'T have 2 or 3 loanees as some of their "main" players.
The one interesting feature for me is that if we don’t sign players from elsewhere, then it provides more opportunities for our players coming through. I hope it is true that Ben Garner is a good enough coach to improve players. If some coaches/managers can get a tune out of indifferent players, then at Charlton we have players that a good coach might get a concerto from. I will be interested to see Garners influence on Nathan Harness, Deji Elewere, Aaron Henry, Albie Morgan and Josh Davison. That’s before you get to Myles Leaburn, Tyreece Campbell and others. If Ben Garner can get a full blown series of symphonies from Alex Gilbey then for me his credibility as our manager will increase a lot. However first and foremost the responsibility of the manager to the fans is results. Sign players, don’t sign players, whatever. But win matches and don’t blame player resources for defeats. Overcome the challenges.
Given the noises around how we'll approach loans now, if true/ barring a change in policy of course, I'd expect them to make up the squad filler role more than being starters.
Think we really need to shift 1 or 2 on and get another 2 good perms in (insert random perm picture here).
We and everyone else will always have loans, just depends how it's to be managed as to its worth really.
It would be nice yes but with the squad cap and increased reliance on domestic players it's realistically going to be very hard to do.
I'm fairly sure left back will be a priority as we currently don't have any senior specialist LB but while we would all LIKE to have (for arguments sake) a goal scoring midfielder, a versatile striker and maybe a proper left sided CB chances are we will have to prioritize one or two of those over the rest.
It would be a genuine surprise to me if whoever gets promoted this year DOESN'T have 2 or 3 loanees as some of their "main" players.
Sorry I don't agree, this was exactly the error from last season as Cafc43v3r points out. It simply has to be the priority and there are clearly left-backs out there who can come in and start. I've got no issue with a loanee replacing them after a few games, but we simply cannot start the season without one.
The rest are all players we need but could cope without for one or two games. When I look at the team now, I'm quite confident that with the addition of a LB we can put out a half decent XI.
I've said for a while and still believe that the squad won't be "complete" or fully balanced at the end of this window, certainly not if you only look at permanent players.
But I do think it's going to be considerably closer than it is now and should be a squad that Garner's actually chosen not one he's been given, as Adkins was.
You could argue that’s true for most clubs in this league as I as expect the majority will have at least two or three loan players.
Yes, that's exactly the point I'm making. We can all make our lists of what we need, CM, LB etc etc but chances are some of those will be filled up by loans later on.
BUT that's not inherently a sign of bad management or a poor window, it's just the nature of the game at this level at this time.
It is but it would be nice to have a team. Using left back as an example, we need one before the season starts even if the second one arrives on loan later on.
Left back is a great example. It's perfectly understandable to have JFC, center back, youth team player, right back or someone else play left back during an injury/suspension crisis. Its not to start the season, two years in a row, to start the season without a left back.
It really doesn't matter if you bring the Evina in first and the Wiggins later, even if the season is 3 or 4 games old, but you have got to have at least one when you start, haven't you?
Yes, 100%. It should be the key signing at the moment. It's the only position we don't have someone naturally to play there.
Yann is the one that proves is not about when you sign, it's about who you sign. He joined a month into the season, but was the magic dust that turned that team from good into special. Didn't matter if he joined then or 1st June, key thing was we got him and he was absolute mustard.
.To be fair though wasn't 99% of that magnificent side put in place throughout the early summer window before he arrived with his mastery as the cherry on top of a bloody good side?
Christ alive - surely signing 3 promising players on free transfers because their contracts were up would be considered good business? General reaction was pretty positive to all 3 signings
Hoping that we see some dramatic improvement in underperforming players under Garner. Seems like the team bonding exercise has gone really well and expecting a left back to come in unless they are trying to use Clayden there.Lol
George Moncur has confirmed he’s leaving Hull on his Insta. Leyton Orient think he’s signing for them although I know he was linked to us a few pages back.
From my very basic understanding of football finances I have always assumed that when a club negotiate with an out of contract player there is an additional cost of an upfront fee to the player as no transfer fee to the previous club - so it does cost TS.
George Moncur has confirmed he’s leaving Hull on his Insta. Leyton Orient think he’s signing for them although I know he was linked to us a few pages back.
Wasn't we linked with him a few years back? Not sure his career has developed as well as hoped.. But is he any better than we already have?
Edit; I have just seen goal scoring record in League One, it is impressive for a midfielder.. could actually be a good signing.
Comments
We're ahead of 18/19, but Bowyer only made 6 signings in total. I think we'd all agree this squad needs more than that. Bowyer's signings were:
Taylor - 27 June
Pratley - 17 July
Steer - 10 August
Bielik - 16 August
Cullen - 30 August
Ward - 31 August
This season starts a week earlier than usual but on the other hand there's now a squad cap in place. Therefore it may be a case of not completing potential signings until we know we can move certain players on. Davison and Clayden stick out with them being too old to count as u21s while others such as Kirk and Gilbey could leave too.
Powell got started early with Hollands and Pritchard joining 24 May and Sullivan 31 May. You could be generous to the current set up and argue the latter two weren't major signings given Pritchard was a punt and Sullivan a backup goalkeeper.
That would mean by 28 June Powell had made 3 first team signings with Hayes and Evina coming in on 21 June, same as we have so far this summer. However after that there was a flurry of four signings in three days with Green and Stephens on 29 June, Wiggins a day later and Taylor on 1 July.
Morrison signed on 10 July, Hamer and Hughes 1 August, Euell 10 August (though he was another that wasn't a key signing, at least not on the pitch).
Cort joined on loan 29 August and finally Yann signed on 14 September.
In addition that summer we also signed three youngsters in Pope, Bover and Smith, plus Alonso who never played in the league for us.
We won't be signing anywhere near 19 players, but if we move some on it wouldn't be surprising to see us get into double figures. We may need a few u21 loans to be able to do that under the cap. Hopefully we'll have a few more in the next couple of weeks rather than needing so many towards the end of the window as we saw last year.
But I do think it's going to be considerably closer than it is now and should be a squad that Garner's actually chosen not one he's been given, as Adkins was.
BUT that's not inherently a sign of bad management or a poor window, it's just the nature of the game at this level at this time.
It really doesn't matter if you bring the Evina in first and the Wiggins later, even if the season is 3 or 4 games old, but you have got to have at least one when you start, haven't you?
I'm fairly sure left back will be a priority as we currently don't have any senior specialist LB but while we would all LIKE to have (for arguments sake) a goal scoring midfielder, a versatile striker and maybe a proper left sided CB chances are we will have to prioritize one or two of those over the rest.
It would be a genuine surprise to me if whoever gets promoted this year DOESN'T have 2 or 3 loanees as some of their "main" players.
I hope it is true that Ben Garner is a good enough coach to improve players. If some coaches/managers can get a tune out of indifferent players, then at Charlton we have players that a good coach might get a concerto from.
I will be interested to see Garners influence on Nathan Harness, Deji Elewere, Aaron Henry, Albie Morgan and Josh Davison. That’s before you get to Myles Leaburn, Tyreece Campbell and others. If Ben Garner can get a full blown series of symphonies from Alex Gilbey then for me his credibility as our manager will increase a lot.
However first and foremost the responsibility of the manager to the fans is results.
Sign players, don’t sign players, whatever. But win matches and don’t blame player resources for defeats. Overcome the challenges.
Think we really need to shift 1 or 2 on and get another 2 good perms in (insert random perm picture here).
The rest are all players we need but could cope without for one or two games. When I look at the team now, I'm quite confident that with the addition of a LB we can put out a half decent XI.
.To be fair though wasn't 99% of that magnificent side put in place throughout the early summer window before he arrived with his mastery as the cherry on top of a bloody good side?
So...may as well close the thread then eh!!..
The guy doing the step up's...have we sold Stockley..
Edit; I have just seen goal scoring record in League One, it is impressive for a midfielder.. could actually be a good signing.