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Post-match Thread: Sheffield Wednesday vs Charlton Athletic | Saturday 26th February 2022

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  • edited February 2022
    On the coach heading back home. 
    What another shower of shite. 

    Forget injuries 
    Forget poor refs 
    Forget bad luck.

    These things apply to every team in the league and not just us.

    The bottom line is that this group of players are not good enough. 

    Where we go from here depends on how deep Sandgaard s  pockets are but one thing is certain without a major overhaul nothing will change. 
    We had a major overhaul last summer and things have got even worse. What makes you think this summer will be any different.

     We have around 10 players out of contract or going due to being on loan. Then you have to think about replacing some of the players already under contract that you might not want like Kirk or Gilbey. So you are looking at 12 or so players that you need to recruit. And our recent record of this sort of "churn" has not been good.
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    Oggy Red said:
     Jacko said pre-match:

    “When we get some of those guys back we will be stronger – I’ve no doubt we will improve,” Jackson said. “It’s difficult at the moment but I want to finish the season strongly and get a feel-good factor – end the season on a positive note".

    “Then we can go away, get the summer exactly how we want it – recruit well and recruit early – get our group together and come back with one aim, which will be to get promoted next season."


    There's evidently going to be a bit of a clear out this summer. Some players may already know or suspect they are not going to be here next season.
    Like Powell was 'son of Curbs', Jacko may have learned a lot from his old Charlton manager. He was one of the few survivors of the big culling, when Chris Powell put together a rebuilt squad, "recruiting well and recruiting early".

    We seem to be seeing the same pattern as when Chris Powell took over ..... he inherited a side that either couldn't or wouldn't play the way he wanted.
    So he sacked off most of his squad and brought in new players that would play his way.

    Just my own thoughts, of course.


    Adkins said the same, even said he wouldn't go on holiday to make sure everything was done before preseason........ 
    Got plenty of holiday in the end
  • The connection between having a bit of presence up front and keeping a clean sheet in that second half should be noted.
    It probably won't be though
  • Jacko now faces a problem that every manager of clubs below the Premiership face, contracts running down and players looking elsewhere. We have seen it over the years with players allegedly injured or not putting in a shift, I look at the side and wonder if, even without the strikers, have some players put their all in. I think with the forwards returning, Fraser getting back to fitness and Jacko able to put a side out that he trusts, we will be ok. Even if we finish just outside the play offs or just outside the relegation places, next season we should not be signing players who are only here because no one else wants them and certainly not on one year contracts, knowing that they are here just to earn a wage for twelve months. 
  • It's a bit simple to blame out of contract players not caring for our performances, as most clubs will be in the same situation. Several of Wednesday's team are out of contract in the summer for example (Paterson, Berahino, Hutchinson, Hunt, Palmer, Luongo) or loanees.

    Of today's 11

    McG, Lavelle, Dobson, Morgan, Gilbey plus the subs DJ, Stockley and Fraser are all under contract for next season

    Of the remaining players Famewo, Lee, Burstow and Leko are all loan players, but then most L1 clubs will have 4 or 5 loan players, so we're hardly unusual

    That only leaves Purrington, Matthews and Gunter



  • Not sure where to start. That was dreadful. I can’t be bothered to go into too much detail but quick thoughts:

    - routine set-piece for their first. Unmarked headed flicked on with no one at the back post. Basic football.

    - second, DJ just doesn’t get his positioning right and gets embarrassed and taken out the game. Maybe if he put a bit more effort in he’d have at least delayed them. But a simple cross and tap-in after that. 

    - the most concerning thing is we don’t appear to have any playing style. Long balls up to Burstow in the first. Not sure what he’s supposed to do with those. That didn’t change when Stockley came on either. 

    - Dobson the only one who puts any effort in and the only one I’d have back next year. 

    - bang on about the formation as much as you like, it’s irrelevant when the players don’t care and put in lazy, half-hearted performances like that. 

    I don’t know what the answer is. 
  • My Saturday team played 3-5-2 at start of season and we lost our wing backs so switched to a 4-1-3-2 to play to our strengths and adapt having consistency rather then chop and change.

    I'm so confused why we are playing route one football in this system and very exposed out of possession. It's not just about possession we are so poor in transition. 

    We need to see something different soon.
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  • Lavelle is not the answer, had a poor game, like most.
  • If we have no forwards why can’t he set us up to ensure we don’t get beat? I don’t understand it.
    It's what Curbs would have done.



  • Phew…big decision this morning on whether to watch the match or have a short walking tour of Cartagena.  Luckily I chose the tour and I feel so much better for it. 
  • Our defence is still very weak. In retrospect we shouldn't have started the season with Famwo as left CB. He is a talented player but makes far too many mistakes. Promoted teams have a solidarity about them. Innis and Lavelle  are decent but that is about it as regards the rest of our defence. Even Clare makes too many blunders. I think we all agree that MacG is a great shot stopper but does not control his area. Hopefully we'll have a goalie who will catch/punch away corners next year. When I think how stupid Roland made Morrison leave on a free transfer, it makes me rage!
  • On the coach heading back home. 
    What another shower of shite. 

    Forget injuries 
    Forget poor refs 
    Forget bad luck.

    These things apply to every team in the league and not just us.

    The bottom line is that this group of players are not good enough. 

    Where we go from here depends on how deep Sandgaard s  pockets are but one thing is certain without a major overhaul nothing will change. 
    We had a major overhaul last summer and things have got even worse. What makes you think this summer will be any different.

     We have around 10 players out of contract or going due to being on loan. Then you have to think about replacing some of the players already under contract that you might not want like Kirk or Gilbey. So you are looking at 12 or so players that you need to recruit. And our recent record of this sort of "churn" has not been good.
    Not really. We signed Stockley early and then there was the long waiting period during which our '1st choice targets' signed for other clubs.

    Pretty close to the beginning of the season, we signed MacKeeper, Clare, Dobson plus resigned Matthews and Famewo. Then once the season had already started, the winger from Crewe followed by the deadline day signings of Lee, Leko and Scott Parker's brother-in-law.

    Maybe I've forgotten someone but you get my point - it wasn't a major overhaul: we let go/lost players and loans, replacing them with anyone else who still happened to be available at the last minute. They weren't our 1st choices but we were getting desperate and they plugged some holes in the squad.

    We really can't afford to muck about like that this coming summer. We need our list of targets now and approaches made as soon as it's ethically possible to do so. We've already started, signing Aneke and Fraser.

    And players not just signed for their ability on the ball - we need proper characters who will fit into a team unit that has the will to win.

    That's where we need to do our homework.




  • Scoham said:
    Oggy Red said:
    If we have no forwards why can’t he set us up to ensure we don’t get beat? I don’t understand it.
    It's what Curbs would have done.



    It's not that easy is it? We have no one up front who can hold up the ball, or even do something to take pressure off the defence.
    Sure, the ball comes straight back pressuring the defence if it doesn't stick up front.

    But all the while we've been lacking forwards, we could have changed shape or set up differently, with a winger up front just to run at long balls and keep their defence from joining their attack ..... maybe even 4-5-1 and strangle the midfield. Ugly perhaps but needs must.


  • Adkins never lost five games on the spin. Failed to score in over 300 minutes of football.
    Worse football seen in over 45 years, the players are cheating the fans and club as they are same players that went on a winning streak with NO Stockley or Washington playing together so that's a lie what he continually quotes.
    Had one of the best quotes last week from a fan when having a drink after the game and this is how far we have sunk, and this guy was so serious I thought it was a wind up at first “four more wins and we will be safe!! “ Wow safe from relegation in league one with a six pointer fast approaching against Gillingham.

    God I wish this season would end now.
    Worrying thing is Neil Harris has got Gillingham playing. An excellent 2-0 win at Lincoln today.

    Harris nearly always turns us over and I can see his new team turning up at the Valley ready for a good old scrap which our spineless bunch will not be up for.

    Lose that and we are really in the **** big time.
  • Oggy Red said:
    Oggy Red said:
     Jacko said pre-match:

    “When we get some of those guys back we will be stronger – I’ve no doubt we will improve,” Jackson said. “It’s difficult at the moment but I want to finish the season strongly and get a feel-good factor – end the season on a positive note".

    “Then we can go away, get the summer exactly how we want it – recruit well and recruit early – get our group together and come back with one aim, which will be to get promoted next season."


    There's evidently going to be a bit of a clear out this summer. Some players may already know or suspect they are not going to be here next season.
    Like Powell was 'son of Curbs', Jacko may have learned a lot from his old Charlton manager. He was one of the few survivors of the big culling, when Chris Powell put together a rebuilt squad, "recruiting well and recruiting early".

    We seem to be seeing the same pattern as when Chris Powell took over ..... he inherited a side that either couldn't or wouldn't play the way he wanted.
    So he sacked off most of his squad and brought in new players that would play his way.

    Just my own thoughts, of course.


    Jackson can say what he likes. Adkins said the same thing after the Hull game last season & Sandgarrd said we were going to "blow through this league".

    Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder & so far I've seen nothing over the last 18 months to make me think that we will be any better off next season. 
    It's clear as day, there's going to be a clearout. Jacko has been dropping hints in his interviews for the past few weeks. He's urging players to play for their futures if they want to be here next season. It's equally clear some players are not busting a gut; perhaps they already know or suspect they'll be gone?

    Adkins himself was dealt the short straw. He was promised good players and maybe there were several targets that eventually signed for other clubs, either at Championship level or just elsewhere for a bigger dollar ..... but they didn't sign for Charlton. Adkins could barely put out a match fit 1st team in August. The players he eventually got, were hopelessly unfit when they signed weeks after the season had already started. That fact alone killed our season right from the first few games.

    You'd hope lessons have been learned this time around, and that "recruiting well and recruiting early" has already began in the Janury window with the signing of Aneke and Fraser. There's also been changes in practices involving the recruitment team, which is now more streamlined.




    I can't say I'm happy about any set up that includes sandgaards son.
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  • Oggy Red said:
    Oggy Red said:
     Jacko said pre-match:

    “When we get some of those guys back we will be stronger – I’ve no doubt we will improve,” Jackson said. “It’s difficult at the moment but I want to finish the season strongly and get a feel-good factor – end the season on a positive note".

    “Then we can go away, get the summer exactly how we want it – recruit well and recruit early – get our group together and come back with one aim, which will be to get promoted next season."


    There's evidently going to be a bit of a clear out this summer. Some players may already know or suspect they are not going to be here next season.
    Like Powell was 'son of Curbs', Jacko may have learned a lot from his old Charlton manager. He was one of the few survivors of the big culling, when Chris Powell put together a rebuilt squad, "recruiting well and recruiting early".

    We seem to be seeing the same pattern as when Chris Powell took over ..... he inherited a side that either couldn't or wouldn't play the way he wanted.
    So he sacked off most of his squad and brought in new players that would play his way.

    Just my own thoughts, of course.


    Jackson can say what he likes. Adkins said the same thing after the Hull game last season & Sandgarrd said we were going to "blow through this league".

    Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder & so far I've seen nothing over the last 18 months to make me think that we will be any better off next season. 
    It's clear as day, there's going to be a clearout. Jacko has been dropping hints in his interviews for the past few weeks. He's urging players to play for their futures if they want to be here next season. It's equally clear some players are not busting a gut; perhaps they already know or suspect they'll be gone?

    Adkins himself was dealt the short straw. He was promised good players and maybe there were several targets that eventually signed for other clubs, either at Championship level or just elsewhere for a bigger dollar ..... but they didn't sign for Charlton. Adkins could barely put out a match fit 1st team in August. The players he eventually got, were hopelessly unfit when they signed weeks after the season had already started. That fact alone killed our season right from the first few games.

    You'd hope lessons have been learned this time around, and that "recruiting well and recruiting early" has already began in the Janury window with the signing of Aneke and Fraser. There's also been changes in practices involving the recruitment team, which is now more streamlined.




    I can't say I'm happy about any set up that includes sandgaards son.

    If he's proving capable and respected for what he's doing by other key members of the recruitment team, what is the problem?


  • Oggy Red said:
    Oggy Red said:
     Jacko said pre-match:

    “When we get some of those guys back we will be stronger – I’ve no doubt we will improve,” Jackson said. “It’s difficult at the moment but I want to finish the season strongly and get a feel-good factor – end the season on a positive note".

    “Then we can go away, get the summer exactly how we want it – recruit well and recruit early – get our group together and come back with one aim, which will be to get promoted next season."


    There's evidently going to be a bit of a clear out this summer. Some players may already know or suspect they are not going to be here next season.
    Like Powell was 'son of Curbs', Jacko may have learned a lot from his old Charlton manager. He was one of the few survivors of the big culling, when Chris Powell put together a rebuilt squad, "recruiting well and recruiting early".

    We seem to be seeing the same pattern as when Chris Powell took over ..... he inherited a side that either couldn't or wouldn't play the way he wanted.
    So he sacked off most of his squad and brought in new players that would play his way.

    Just my own thoughts, of course.


    Jackson can say what he likes. Adkins said the same thing after the Hull game last season & Sandgarrd said we were going to "blow through this league".

    Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder & so far I've seen nothing over the last 18 months to make me think that we will be any better off next season. 
    It's clear as day, there's going to be a clearout. Jacko has been dropping hints in his interviews for the past few weeks. He's urging players to play for their futures if they want to be here next season. It's equally clear some players are not busting a gut; perhaps they already know or suspect they'll be gone?

    Adkins himself was dealt the short straw. He was promised good players and maybe there were several targets that eventually signed for other clubs, either at Championship level or just elsewhere for a bigger dollar ..... but they didn't sign for Charlton. Adkins could barely put out a match fit 1st team in August. The players he eventually got, were hopelessly unfit when they signed weeks after the season had already started. That fact alone killed our season right from the first few games.

    You'd hope lessons have been learned this time around, and that "recruiting well and recruiting early" has already began in the Janury window with the signing of Aneke and Fraser. There's also been changes in practices involving the recruitment team, which is now more streamlined.

    In my original post, I was seeing parallels - and if Jackson is to stay as manager, he at least needs players that will give not only ability but also the required effort and the resilience  to fight as a team unit.  Chris Powell experienced the same issues in his first season (for example, Dagenham away, anyone?), as Jackson is facing now. Powell, like Curbs before him, played big emphasis on signing players with the right character; even interviewing all prospective signings himself. Jacko would do himself a favour if he did the same.

    Player character is everything in football. No team wins anything without that team unit consistantly showing desire and will to win.


    You make good points about Atkins. He said he wanted recruitment done early so we would hit the ground running in the new season. Instead recruitment was a shambles and we ended up with players like Arter & Soare at the end of the window. I hope some look at the situation now and then look back to the beginning of the season and realise Atkins was dealt a very bad hand. He was on a hiding to nothing.

    The trick now is to learn from that. Need to clear out ALL the dead wood. There can be no room for sentiment so goodbye Inniss & JFC with thanks. Then we need the majority of the squad assembled for the start of pre season with only two or three added after the season has started. If TS doesn’t learn from this seasons mistakes then we can write off the next one too.


    After last summer's recruitment debacle, you'd hope the lesson has now been thoroughly learned.

    Clearing out the deadwood IMO is firmly on the agenda.
    Jacko as a player was here watching Chris Powell do exactly that 10 years ago.

    I would suggest that Jack has never forgotten how it was done and it's effectiveness.


  • Oggy Red said:
    Oggy Red said:
    Oggy Red said:
     Jacko said pre-match:

    “When we get some of those guys back we will be stronger – I’ve no doubt we will improve,” Jackson said. “It’s difficult at the moment but I want to finish the season strongly and get a feel-good factor – end the season on a positive note".

    “Then we can go away, get the summer exactly how we want it – recruit well and recruit early – get our group together and come back with one aim, which will be to get promoted next season."


    There's evidently going to be a bit of a clear out this summer. Some players may already know or suspect they are not going to be here next season.
    Like Powell was 'son of Curbs', Jacko may have learned a lot from his old Charlton manager. He was one of the few survivors of the big culling, when Chris Powell put together a rebuilt squad, "recruiting well and recruiting early".

    We seem to be seeing the same pattern as when Chris Powell took over ..... he inherited a side that either couldn't or wouldn't play the way he wanted.
    So he sacked off most of his squad and brought in new players that would play his way.

    Just my own thoughts, of course.


    Jackson can say what he likes. Adkins said the same thing after the Hull game last season & Sandgarrd said we were going to "blow through this league".

    Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder & so far I've seen nothing over the last 18 months to make me think that we will be any better off next season. 
    It's clear as day, there's going to be a clearout. Jacko has been dropping hints in his interviews for the past few weeks. He's urging players to play for their futures if they want to be here next season. It's equally clear some players are not busting a gut; perhaps they already know or suspect they'll be gone?

    Adkins himself was dealt the short straw. He was promised good players and maybe there were several targets that eventually signed for other clubs, either at Championship level or just elsewhere for a bigger dollar ..... but they didn't sign for Charlton. Adkins could barely put out a match fit 1st team in August. The players he eventually got, were hopelessly unfit when they signed weeks after the season had already started. That fact alone killed our season right from the first few games.

    You'd hope lessons have been learned this time around, and that "recruiting well and recruiting early" has already began in the Janury window with the signing of Aneke and Fraser. There's also been changes in practices involving the recruitment team, which is now more streamlined.




    I can't say I'm happy about any set up that includes sandgaards son.

    If he's proving capable and respected for what he's doing by other key members of the recruitment team, what is the problem?


    Is he though? And if he isn’t then the others are unlikely to say otherwise? And whoever thought a three and a half year contract for Aneke was a good idea needs to give their head a good wobble. What next, five years for Inniss and a pay rise?
    I don't know for sure any more than you or anybody else, Large.

    But can that be truly blamed at Martin Sandguard's door? We're told he's only learning the analyst role.
    If the fella  is doing his job well and respected by colleagues, then why not give him the chance to prove himself until otherwise?


  • As usual, oppo fans saying we are the worst team they have seen this season. 
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