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Scott Fraser - pg 36 - left by mutual consent
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If you're saying he hasn't played that well yet, I wouldn't disagree. But there is years of evidence that he's a very good player at this level.Cafc43v3r said:
I have seen no evidence........Chunes said:
"If Blackett-Taylor is any good, why has he just been released by a league two club? Poundland signing"Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
"Dobson failed at Sunderland, they hated him up there, and before that he was bang average league one player. Not what we need."
What evidence have I missed? I have seen him play against us 3 times, that I noticed, and twice he didn't do anything.
I think it's quite funny that he has a lower stat bank average than Gilbey, Morgan and Matthews. Of course there are reasons.
I have seen no evidence that he is good enough for a team competing at the top end of the table and until I do I will remain sceptical.
I think that's fair enough and I don't think that's sticking the knife in.
Why is he not playing well at the moment? Dunno. Could speculate but what's the point.
Hope he does find some form, even if it's next season. If the fans start getting on his back that will be a lot harder.1 -
I’d put it down to the fact we are in an under performing team as a whole which only really has one stand out consistent player in George Dobson - added to the fact we play a rigid and static brand of football which is never going to make anyone in the playmaking roles look particular effective.Chunes said:
If you're saying he hasn't played that well yet, I wouldn't disagree. But there is years of evidence that he's a very good player at this level.Cafc43v3r said:
I have seen no evidence........Chunes said:
"If Blackett-Taylor is any good, why has he just been released by a league two club? Poundland signing"Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
"Dobson failed at Sunderland, they hated him up there, and before that he was bang average league one player. Not what we need."
What evidence have I missed? I have seen him play against us 3 times, that I noticed, and twice he didn't do anything.
I think it's quite funny that he has a lower stat bank average than Gilbey, Morgan and Matthews. Of course there are reasons.
I have seen no evidence that he is good enough for a team competing at the top end of the table and until I do I will remain sceptical.
I think that's fair enough and I don't think that's sticking the knife in.
Why is he not playing well at the moment? Dunno. Could speculate but what's the point.
Hope he does find some form, even if it's next season. If the fans start getting on his back that will be a lot harder.At the moment it feels like the football is as bland as it was under Kyle Robinson (though his Oxford side are the top scorers in the league this year), where our only goal was to get the ball out to Ricky Holmes and hope he could run past the whole team.1 -
If negative comments on a football forum effect his performance I would be very worried indeed.Chunes said:
If you're saying he hasn't played that well yet, I wouldn't disagree. But there is years of evidence that he's a very good player at this level.Cafc43v3r said:
I have seen no evidence........Chunes said:
"If Blackett-Taylor is any good, why has he just been released by a league two club? Poundland signing"Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
"Dobson failed at Sunderland, they hated him up there, and before that he was bang average league one player. Not what we need."
What evidence have I missed? I have seen him play against us 3 times, that I noticed, and twice he didn't do anything.
I think it's quite funny that he has a lower stat bank average than Gilbey, Morgan and Matthews. Of course there are reasons.
I have seen no evidence that he is good enough for a team competing at the top end of the table and until I do I will remain sceptical.
I think that's fair enough and I don't think that's sticking the knife in.
Why is he not playing well at the moment? Dunno. Could speculate but what's the point.
Hope he does find some form, even if it's next season. If the fans start getting on his back that will be a lot harder.
N.B Thats very different to tagging said player on social media.0 -
I’d say writing off a player after 6 starts is judging him far too soon. Especially someone who has shown over a few seasons that he has an end product at this level.Lincsaddick said:
ongoing poor scouting decision thenScoham said:
He’s also someone we’d tried to sign for the last couple of yearsLincsaddick said:as I wrote at the time .. I see Fraser as a 'panic buy' .. in that 'we had to sign someone'
That’s without adding in that he’s playing in our inconsistent average League 1 side who have nothing to play for and he’s recently recovered from Covid.
Guessing you said similar about Dobson after his first few games and when we signed CBT?4 -
you guess wrong .. don't guess, do your research lolScoham said:
I’d say writing off a player after 6 starts is judging him far too soon. Especially someone who has shown over a few seasons that he has an end product at this level.Lincsaddick said:
ongoing poor scouting decision thenScoham said:
He’s also someone we’d tried to sign for the last couple of yearsLincsaddick said:as I wrote at the time .. I see Fraser as a 'panic buy' .. in that 'we had to sign someone'
That’s without adding in that he’s playing in our inconsistent average League 1 side who have nothing to play for and he’s recently recovered from Covid.
Guessing you said similar about Dobson after his first few games and when we signed CBT?0 -
So if you don’t usually write off players that quickly why have you decided Fraser isn’t up to it already?Lincsaddick said:
you guess wrong .. don't guess, do your research lolScoham said:
I’d say writing off a player after 6 starts is judging him far too soon. Especially someone who has shown over a few seasons that he has an end product at this level.Lincsaddick said:
ongoing poor scouting decision thenScoham said:
He’s also someone we’d tried to sign for the last couple of yearsLincsaddick said:as I wrote at the time .. I see Fraser as a 'panic buy' .. in that 'we had to sign someone'
That’s without adding in that he’s playing in our inconsistent average League 1 side who have nothing to play for and he’s recently recovered from Covid.
Guessing you said similar about Dobson after his first few games and when we signed CBT?0 -
Because ...... Chris Powell.Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
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Panic buy? I don't think so. We'd already signed Nile John.Lincsaddick said:as I wrote at the time .. I see Fraser as a 'panic buy' .. in that 'we had to sign someone'
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Just remember guys, if he IS a flop that Martin sandgaard identified him 😉
I am joking by the way, I'm willing to give him a full preseason before I judge0 -
The footballing insight of some of us on here is priceless.Chunes said:
"If Blackett-Taylor is any good, why has he just been released by a league two club? Poundland signing"Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
"Dobson failed at Sunderland, they hated him up there, and before that he was bang average league one player. Not what we need."
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Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
Because he flopped with 1 goal in 20.0 -
To be fair, Fraser was Ipswichised before he joined ussoapy_jones said:Charltonising is strong jou jou...
We can turn a relatively accomplished player into a Hackney Marsh top gun in 3 months i reckon.
Think it would probably take 6 months with Messi though, but what a challenge for our coaching team!3 -
So is the blind optimism of others.....Oggy Red said:
The footballing insight of some of us on here is priceless.Chunes said:
"If Blackett-Taylor is any good, why has he just been released by a league two club? Poundland signing"Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
"Dobson failed at Sunderland, they hated him up there, and before that he was bang average league one player. Not what we need."0 -
"our only goal was to get the ball out to Ricky Holmes and hope he could run past the whole team."FishCostaFortune said:
I’d put it down to the fact we are in an under performing team as a whole which only really has one stand out consistent player in George Dobson - added to the fact we play a rigid and static brand of football which is never going to make anyone in the playmaking roles look particular effective.Chunes said:
If you're saying he hasn't played that well yet, I wouldn't disagree. But there is years of evidence that he's a very good player at this level.Cafc43v3r said:
I have seen no evidence........Chunes said:
"If Blackett-Taylor is any good, why has he just been released by a league two club? Poundland signing"Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
"Dobson failed at Sunderland, they hated him up there, and before that he was bang average league one player. Not what we need."
What evidence have I missed? I have seen him play against us 3 times, that I noticed, and twice he didn't do anything.
I think it's quite funny that he has a lower stat bank average than Gilbey, Morgan and Matthews. Of course there are reasons.
I have seen no evidence that he is good enough for a team competing at the top end of the table and until I do I will remain sceptical.
I think that's fair enough and I don't think that's sticking the knife in.
Why is he not playing well at the moment? Dunno. Could speculate but what's the point.
Hope he does find some form, even if it's next season. If the fans start getting on his back that will be a lot harder.At the moment it feels like the football is as bland as it was under Kyle Robinson (though his Oxford side are the top scorers in the league this year), where our only goal was to get the ball out to Ricky Holmes and hope he could run past the whole team.
Isn't this our exact game plan with CBT?1 -
No, we mix it up. Sometimes we hoof it up to Stockley.995632 said:
"our only goal was to get the ball out to Ricky Holmes and hope he could run past the whole team."FishCostaFortune said:
I’d put it down to the fact we are in an under performing team as a whole which only really has one stand out consistent player in George Dobson - added to the fact we play a rigid and static brand of football which is never going to make anyone in the playmaking roles look particular effective.Chunes said:
If you're saying he hasn't played that well yet, I wouldn't disagree. But there is years of evidence that he's a very good player at this level.Cafc43v3r said:
I have seen no evidence........Chunes said:
"If Blackett-Taylor is any good, why has he just been released by a league two club? Poundland signing"Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
"Dobson failed at Sunderland, they hated him up there, and before that he was bang average league one player. Not what we need."
What evidence have I missed? I have seen him play against us 3 times, that I noticed, and twice he didn't do anything.
I think it's quite funny that he has a lower stat bank average than Gilbey, Morgan and Matthews. Of course there are reasons.
I have seen no evidence that he is good enough for a team competing at the top end of the table and until I do I will remain sceptical.
I think that's fair enough and I don't think that's sticking the knife in.
Why is he not playing well at the moment? Dunno. Could speculate but what's the point.
Hope he does find some form, even if it's next season. If the fans start getting on his back that will be a lot harder.At the moment it feels like the football is as bland as it was under Kyle Robinson (though his Oxford side are the top scorers in the league this year), where our only goal was to get the ball out to Ricky Holmes and hope he could run past the whole team.
Isn't this our exact game plan with CBT?3 -
Well exactly, which is why I mentioned it.995632 said:
"our only goal was to get the ball out to Ricky Holmes and hope he could run past the whole team."FishCostaFortune said:
I’d put it down to the fact we are in an under performing team as a whole which only really has one stand out consistent player in George Dobson - added to the fact we play a rigid and static brand of football which is never going to make anyone in the playmaking roles look particular effective.Chunes said:
If you're saying he hasn't played that well yet, I wouldn't disagree. But there is years of evidence that he's a very good player at this level.Cafc43v3r said:
I have seen no evidence........Chunes said:
"If Blackett-Taylor is any good, why has he just been released by a league two club? Poundland signing"Callumcafc said:We can do the “why did no-one else sign him” argument to death.
Why did no-one in the Championship sign Yann Kermorgant in 2011?
"Dobson failed at Sunderland, they hated him up there, and before that he was bang average league one player. Not what we need."
What evidence have I missed? I have seen him play against us 3 times, that I noticed, and twice he didn't do anything.
I think it's quite funny that he has a lower stat bank average than Gilbey, Morgan and Matthews. Of course there are reasons.
I have seen no evidence that he is good enough for a team competing at the top end of the table and until I do I will remain sceptical.
I think that's fair enough and I don't think that's sticking the knife in.
Why is he not playing well at the moment? Dunno. Could speculate but what's the point.
Hope he does find some form, even if it's next season. If the fans start getting on his back that will be a lot harder.At the moment it feels like the football is as bland as it was under Kyle Robinson (though his Oxford side are the top scorers in the league this year), where our only goal was to get the ball out to Ricky Holmes and hope he could run past the whole team.
Isn't this our exact game plan with CBT?More than a couple of times against Lincoln we ended up with 3/4 players in the left hand corner of the pitch as we were so focused on attacking that way. And let’s not forget Gilbey’s cross field ball to him, which completely whiffed when there were other options on.
Don’t get me wrong. we should of course be using CBT’s pace to our advantage, and it’s shown it will create chances for us. Though we can’t be so one dimensional, and if our two modes of play are kick it long to Stockley, or pass it around sideways to drag players out and try and create some space for CBT to eventually run into - don’t expect our playmaking midfielders to look spectacular.1 -
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Since he’s come back to anything resembling full fitness, we’ve won three and lost one (where we pummelled the opposition for most of the game) where the strikers couldn’t put the ball in the back of the net.He’s already improved the performances of Purrington and CBT by passing accurately infront of them instead of the other players continued passing to behind the player they’re passing to. He doesn’t dwell on the ball and releases it quickly.
He’s done outstandingly in last couple of seasons and has just come back from a bad case of Covid. He’s class, he’s an asset and he will be key to us next season.He’s definitely not at his best yet, but I think that having JFC and Dobson with him - in the role Gilbey played on Saturday - will suit him much more.Come on guys, we don’t need to try and find the misery in everything.9 -
Another dreadful signing - agreed . At least Dobson and Clare always had mobility- I genuinely don’t see what Fraser has . As someone else said, if he looked like a great passer but was just way off the pace, I’d be more forgiving .Chunes said:He's getting the Kirk treatment already2 -
He strikes me as a player who needs other midfielder's that are give and go with movement, players that are comfortable on the ball.
Hopefully we will sign some players that will make this gel. I also would have thought a player like JFC around him will help.2 -
DobsonStrikerFirmani said:He strikes me as a player who needs other midfielder's that are give and go with movement, players that are comfortable on the ball.
Hopefully we will sign some players that will make this gel. I also would have thought a player like JFC around him will help.Fraser - F.Caskey
That'll be our midfield three next season.2 - Sponsored links:
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That’s what we do best isn’t it. Kirk and DJ to name two both looked very good against us but both have failed to really perform for us in the positions we bought them for albeit DJ has done well at wing back. We’d sign Salah and his goals would dry up.SELR_addicks said:Jacksonised.
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This thread is a crazy ride, and going down it’s usual route of scapegoating someone. The blokes a good player at this level, has come back from a bad dose of COVID, and coming into a team that’s under performed all year. Judgement needed after a proper pre season9
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How many years we going to use a "proper pre season" to judge everyone for?Rothko said:This thread is a crazy ride, and going down it’s usual route of scapegoating someone. The blokes a good player at this level, has come back from a bad dose of COVID, and coming into a team that’s under performed all year. Judgement needed after a proper pre season
Bowyer walked out before he could have one, Adkins that worked out well. Anyone that thinks a "proper preseason" will solve anything, let alone everything, is acting on blind optimism at this point.
If nothing else changes (by that I mean if we don't sign 8 or 9 player better than the ones we have) no one will look better, not significantly anyway.0 -
If we had signed Scott in a month's time I suspect most people on here would have welcomed him as an early signing for next season.
With JFC I am interested how they might play together. Both are left footed and I see them as being rotable. This season one of my criticisms has been a lack of left footed set play options.
The perfect squad scenario would involve another left footed midfielder alongside three right footers. Dobson, Gilbey and?1 -
It amazes.me when people think we've signed some sort of pedigree at this level. We give these players far too much credit
For a start, if he had any sort of pedigree he wouldn't be languishing in this tin pot league.
He had one, that's one, decent season for fellow league one non entity MK Don's,where he had his most successful season in 2020, scoring a career best 15 goals. He's 27 FFS. His best years may be behind him.
Who knows what his issues are? Played well north before now. Maybe like many others before him,the whole London thing isn't for him. Maybe he'll turn good next season, who knows.
Just don't get caught up in the hype when we sign these league one superstars2 -
Your comment is a little contradictory…carly burn said:It amazes.me when people think we've signed some sort of pedigree at this level. We give these players far too much credit
For a start, if he had any sort of pedigree he wouldn't be languishing in this tin pot league.
He had one, that's one, decent season for fellow league one non entity MK Don's,where he had his most successful season in 2020, scoring a career best 15 goals. He's 27 FFS. His best years may be behind him.
Who knows what his issues are? Played well north before now. Maybe like many others before him,the whole London thing isn't for him. Maybe he'll turn good next season, who knows.
Just don't get caught up in the hype when we sign these league one superstars
You start by talking about pedigree AT THIS LEVEL, for which he has plenty - and exactly what the club should be looking for and what we looked for when we stormed the league under Powell.
Then say anyone who is playing in league one has no pedigree so what’s the point anyway. Well, our club plays at this level so players who have proved they’re good at this level works for me.
He has had 3-4 excellent seasons in this league for Burton AND Mk Dons as well as being highly thought of for his early career up in Scotland for Dundee United.15 goals from midfield in the season you mention is more than ANY Charlton midfielder in the last 15 years! (This season’s top scoring midfielder is Elliot Lee with 3 to put that into context)
It’s the perfect time for him and Jackson to get him settled into his role ready for next season.3 -
Admittedly Fraser does not yet look sharp (or happy) but he also looks like a classy player in a rubbish team.
How can any half-decent passing midfield player perform well in this dysfunctional system?
Whenever he receives the ball to his feet which is hardly ever, he either finds himself on the wing or has six players behind him and his only other advanced midfield player is Gilbey who is hiding several miles away. The only option is to lob it forward to Washy or revert to running around aimlessly like Gilbey.
We have no numbers or movement off the ball in midfield and it doesn't matter if we pick Fraser or Pirlo, they are probably wasting their time in our Sunday pub league set up.6 -
Ah the scapegoat card- haven’t seen that for a while ! Commenting that a player hasn’t been any good so far is acceptable . I don’t disagree that he deserves proper judgment next season , but he’s been extremely poor so far .Rothko said:This thread is a crazy ride, and going down it’s usual route of scapegoating someone. The blokes a good player at this level, has come back from a bad dose of COVID, and coming into a team that’s under performed all year. Judgement needed after a proper pre season0 -
How many creative players are we going to write off as 'shit' before we start to question the coaching, the manager and the tactics?
Charlie Kirk - good player at this level, a number of goals and assists for Crewe.
Elliott Lee - good player at this level, won promotion with Luton out of this league, scored 6 in 18 with Oxford last year.
Scott Fraser - good player at this level, did well at Burton and was superb for MK Dons.
Possibly you could also even add Oztumer who was great at this level for Walsall and now deemed good enough to be playing in the Turkish top flight.
If we're signing these players, then surely we sign them because they're good at playing a certain role and therefore we should know how to get the best out of them.
If they all suddenly become shit within a few weeks of signing for us, then the problem (in my opinion) is not with the players.22 -
I think it's much more this than anything else. Creative players, especially at league 1 level, are all very different and generally crap at anything other than their specialty.Chris_from_Sidcup said:How many creative players are we going to write off as 'shit' before we start to question the coaching, the manager and the tactics?
Charlie Kirk - good player at this level, a number of goals and assists for Crewe.
Elliott Lee - good player at this level, won promotion with Luton out of this league, scored 6 in 18 with Oxford last year.
Scott Fraser - good player at this level, did well at Burton and was superb for MK Dons.
Possibly you could also even add Oztumer who was great at this level for Walsall and now deemed good enough to be playing in the Turkish top flight.
If we're signing these players, then surely we sign them because they're good at playing a certain role and therefore we should know how to get the best out of them.
If they all suddenly become shit within a few weeks of signing for us, then the problem (in my opinion) is not with the players.
Oztumer, and Williams, are good examples of that. They are both 10s, signed to play at the top of the diamond. Both could do that but when we moved to different formations, partly down to the emergence of Doughty you had to ask them to do something else. They couldn't.
Lee isn't a 10, neither is Fraser, but that's where we have mainly played him.
You can't plug Kirk into a Millar shape hole and expect it to work.
Millar is probably the poster boy for this though. In his first 3 halves for us he played up front in a 2, left of a 3, left of a midfield 4 and as a 10. That says to me "we think he is good and will work out what to do with him later".
I am not sure it's limited to creative players either, I think there is/was a bit of this going on with Dobson and Clare as well.2
