Arter did join the Ireland squad but the Manager said it wasn't ideal as he is not match fit. Don't think they have an abundance of options to be honest.
Oh ok I didn't know that. Maybe it's a bit harsh of me to right him off then if he's not match fit.
Keeping Jackson was a a political move by Sandgaard. He knows how important Jackson is to us. I suspect Adkins will have preferred his own team.
Perfect example of dammed if you do, damned if you don’t.
Probably would have been uproar if TS let Jacko go. How can you win?
Keeping Jackson persay isn't a problem. For an experienced manager to not bring in anyone, of his own, is a bit strange though.
Now TS, if he sacks Adkins, has either got to give the job to JJ after what he said before or find another manager that is happy to work with the current set up, which fits Roddy's path way?
Would Ryan Lowe, name plucked at random from this thread, come without any of his own staff?
Do you take it to the nth degree and give it to Jackson, then Euell, then Hayes........
Presumably all those that think Adkins has had enough time to produce a team that is in the promotion shake up after nine games are totally mystified as to how Paul Cook still has a job at Ipswich - his record currently reads - 5 wins from 26 matches and just the one win in all comps this season from 11 games.
I seem to remember a few of the experts on here banging on about Paul Cook and how we should of got him instead of Adkins.
I wasn’t overly impressed when Atkins was announced, but he was a breath of fresh air after Bowyers dourness. And he did steady the ship, to just miss out on the play offs. Although, at the time I thought he he was a bit too negative and defensive.
But, his lack of any coherent strategy, and multiple personnel changes, is akin to what we moaned about with Bowyer. We are now fully into the league programme, but both manager, and players playing identity is still missing.
I agree TS has put pressure on NA to tear up the division, but didn’t NA say post Hull City “ that will be us next season”. We are poor, but ultimately I think TS will give NA more time, until attendances fall dramatically. Personally I have switched off to NA, his press conferences are banal, and this constant half glass full, and rose tinted version of events, is frustrating. I don’t dislike him, but he seems as far removed from the fan base as some of the more dubious incumbents we have suffered. And from what I’ve seen so far, is JJ/JE so much worse? At least we have an affinity with them, and you never know, it may just work!
I love Charlton, but what with petrol at the moment, and my lack of enthusiasm, I’m giving tomorrow a miss. Probably win 6-0!lol
Keeping Jackson was a a political move by Sandgaard. He knows how important Jackson is to us. I suspect Adkins will have preferred his own team.
Perfect example of dammed if you do, damned if you don’t.
Probably would have been uproar if TS let Jacko go. How can you win?
Keeping Jackson persay isn't a problem. For an experienced manager to not bring in anyone, of his own, is a bit strange though.
Now TS, if he sacks Adkins, has either got to give the job to JJ after what he said before or find another manager that is happy to work with the current set up, which fits Roddy's path way?
Would Ryan Lowe, name plucked at random from this thread, come without any of his own staff?
Do you take it to the nth degree and give it to Jackson, then Euell, then Hayes........
It's an admirable idea, in theory.
I have a feeling that JJ and Lowe actually did their pro license together. Assuming they got on it could be a dream ticket 👍🏼
An important part that hasn’t been mentioned too much are the fans in the ground. It’s not something players and management have had to think about in the last 18 months. If it becomes toxic over the next several games at the valley TS will surely find it difficult to stand by his man even if his instincts are to be patient.
I know I'm in the minority but I dont think we should be talking about getting rid of the manager just yet. Whatever people say he has a proven record, ok so it was a few years ago but there are people shouting for Curbs ffs whon openly admits he hardly watches football anymore. Paul Cooke was some other peoples favourite choice a while ago, how is he doing after spunking fortunes in the window ? Yes performances have been bad but this squad is ok and I'm sure will click before long, give the bloke until xmas and see where we are
Keeping Jackson was a a political move by Sandgaard. He knows how important Jackson is to us. I suspect Adkins will have preferred his own team.
Perfect example of dammed if you do, damned if you don’t.
Probably would have been uproar if TS let Jacko go. How can you win?
Keeping Jackson persay isn't a problem. For an experienced manager to not bring in anyone, of his own, is a bit strange though.
Now TS, if he sacks Adkins, has either got to give the job to JJ after what he said before or find another manager that is happy to work with the current set up, which fits Roddy's path way?
Would Ryan Lowe, name plucked at random from this thread, come without any of his own staff?
Do you take it to the nth degree and give it to Jackson, then Euell, then Hayes........
It's an admirable idea, in theory.
I have a feeling that JJ and Lowe actually did their pro license together. Assuming they got on it could be a dream ticket 👍🏼
Bit of a leap of faith that.....
But how do you know how much of an impact Stephen Schumacher has had? Is it him that has drilled the defence and over seen the improvement?
Its not about the pros and cons of Jackson it's about giving any manager the best chances of being a success. If you employ someone like Lowe (I am only using him as an example) don't you want to give them the opportunity to replicate what has worked for them in the past?
If your prescribing the staff, the transfer policy and "playing the Charlton way", what ever that actually means you might as well make who ever makes these decisions the manager.
The question we need to ask is whether the possibility the mitigations for Adkins have some validity. I would say there are three main ones. The first we should discount because he signed up for it which is that he hasn't chosen the players. Also, we have some decent players so it isn't unreasonable things should be better. The second is the lateness of arrivals and relative fitness of players. We all know a settled side which is also fit is important. This could have some weight and explain the chopping and changing which has been an issue.
The final one is key and linked to the second. It is can he turn it round and quickly? If there are signs he can, we should stick with him. If you take the point we have been playing catch up, when is a reasonable time to have caught up? This is key to Adkins' future as a run like we have been on has to end and not be repeated. So he must be walking a tightrope now. He has to be. He has to start winning now.
I believe a good win and the confidence it will bring could have a major impact and Tuesday is where it probably needs to happen.
I think it's right that Adkins is under pressure now. At the end of the day, unless we are told other wise, the buck stops with him. But I am not convinced that a) it won't improve and b) removing him now will fix the problems.
Some of the things I would like to know the answers to, before I go full Adkins out are:
1) Who decided Clare, Dobson and Morgan was good enough and then who decided they weren't.
2) Who decided who the back room staff are? Will they be prescribed to the next manager?
3) Do we play 4231/433 because Adkins is the manager or is Adkins the manager because he prefers that system?
4) Will removing Adkins make the players fitter?
In my opinion to be successful, at this level, the manager needs full control of transfers, team selection, tactics, back room staff selection etc etc if they are going to be fully responsible for the results.
Maybe he does need to go but if the next person is plugged into the same restrictions you'll get, generally, the same results.
Good questions and some important points. I wanted Adkins to go but we’re at least seeing us create more chances and it’s become clear several players aren’t yet fit enough. Draws aren’t enough but I’m more hopeful he’ll turn it around than I was a week ago.
On the point about control when did we last give a manager full control of transfers?
Bowyer’s signings had to be approved by Driesen and RD. He couldn’t stop Grant being sold either.
I don’t believe Powell wanted Alonso and Clarke.
From the CAST call with Gallen and Roddy assuming you believe them Adkins agrees (or not) to a signing Gallen and Roddy want and then TS has to sign it off. Gallen talked about needing the manager to want the player as they’re the one working with them every day.
Owners and DOF/chief scouts will always have a say. We’re adding Roddy to that. It’s four people who have to agree, the same as it was under Bowyer. I don’t think it’s restrictions that have led to NA struggling, I think it’s much more about mistakes in the window and fitness levels.
Hopefully he’ll soon prove it’s little to do with him being a football dinosaur or losing the dressing room, two things I’ve seen suggested more than once.
Of course you will never have full control of who is sold etc but there is a big difference between the owner having a veto, or even delegating it, and the manager having a veto.
I find it remarkable that Adkins, a 15 year veteran, hasn't brought in a single member of his own staff. No number 2, no chief scout, no fitness person, no coach of any kind. It was understandable last season.
I think he's former No. 2 took over Port Vale last season to keep them up just before Adkins joined us. They are now 4th in the promotion mix.
He is the assistant manager there isn't he?
Dean Wilkins his 1st team coach is number 2 at stevenage and his sports science guy is still at Reading. I am not suggesting putting the band back together, I just find it strange.
Bowyer appointed Marshall and Bassey and took Marshall to Brum. Even gobo and slade brought their choice of people in.
Robinson took over us soon after he left MKD, so the band were all together still, and ready for the next job
If the gap between jobs is too great, your staff might feel they can't wait any longer. Wilkins had already had a job at Palace working for Hodgson since he left Sheffield United, before joining Stevenage. Maybe if Adkins had taken the Charlton job a month earlier, Crosby would still have been available and he would have joined us, but having worked away from Adkins, maybe he enjoyed the fresh challenge
I don't think the Critchley Blackpool comparison to Adkins is that relevant, as I'd more forgiving if our issue was that we were bedding in a new more progressive style of football (which was also the case with Russell Martin's MKD)
There's no real pattern to our team selections and tactics, as most of the time we seem to be reacting to opponents, rather than imposing ourselves. Other than the Gillingham first half, we've been "outfootballed" in just about every match
Keeping Jackson was a a political move by Sandgaard. He knows how important Jackson is to us. I suspect Adkins will have preferred his own team.
Perfect example of dammed if you do, damned if you don’t.
Probably would have been uproar if TS let Jacko go. How can you win?
Keeping Jackson persay isn't a problem. For an experienced manager to not bring in anyone, of his own, is a bit strange though.
Now TS, if he sacks Adkins, has either got to give the job to JJ after what he said before or find another manager that is happy to work with the current set up, which fits Roddy's path way?
Would Ryan Lowe, name plucked at random from this thread, come without any of his own staff?
Do you take it to the nth degree and give it to Jackson, then Euell, then Hayes........
It's an admirable idea, in theory.
I have a feeling that JJ and Lowe actually did their pro license together. Assuming they got on it could be a dream ticket 👍🏼
Bit of a leap of faith that.....
But how do you know how much of an impact Stephen Schumacher has had? Is it him that has drilled the defence and over seen the improvement?
Its not about the pros and cons of Jackson it's about giving any manager the best chances of being a success. If you employ someone like Lowe (I am only using him as an example) don't you want to give them the opportunity to replicate what has worked for them in the past?
If your prescribing the staff, the transfer policy and "playing the Charlton way", what ever that actually means you might as well make who ever makes these decisions the manager.
I’m not making any leap of faith or prescribing anything. I’m simply saying I think they have a working relationship which could work in JJ and our favour.
I’d want him to pick his team no matter how devastated I’d be to see JJ go.
All irrelevant as the way TS works he’d want Ainsworth in because he likes Rock music and has his shirt undone
Just playing out the post match interview on Valley Pass tomorrow night
Scott Minto “Nigel, thank you for joining us. A late rally at the end there, we got a goal back, like we did at Wycombe, but we’d already given ourselves a mountain to climb going in 2 behind before half time, what are your thoughts.”
NA “Look, it’s disappointing. We knew Bolton would come play expansive football but also keep 10 men behind the ball, that’s why I pushed Watson out wide and played Gunter off Purrington in my new 2-2-2-3-1 formation. We knew we’d have to do something to combat Bolton’s expansive game, I made the changes. It didn’t go according to plan and after they got their second, I went back to 4-2-3-1, our preferred formation, and there was a positive response, we won the second half.”
Scott Minto “You’re right Nigel, they rallied in the second half, but given this was the 4th game on the spin you’ve changed the line up and the formation, it could be said you’re still not sure of your best XI and how you want to play”
NA “I said when I got here we want to develop our own style of play, our own brand. Every good team, be Bolton tonight or Cheltenham the other week or Southampton’s under 23s next week have got their own style of play and we need to keep working on this and it won’t be long until we’ve got a settled team, a settled set up and a style the supporters can be proud of.”
Scott Minto “Well you mention the fans. They’ve seen 10 games now, what do you think they make of the progress?”
NA “We’re not where we need to be, but they can see the spirit. Pearcey was magnificent out there tonight. Battler, a true professional. Then we’ve got Watson. Gunter is another experienced pro. They’ll put their arms around the younger lads, we’ll be back in tomorrow to analyse it, we’ll take a look at it, and then we’ll get our heads down and plan for Saturday against another very good team in Fleetwood, who like all successful sides, have their own style of play that we’ll have to adapt to”
Scott Minto “We spent most of last season in the studio discussing if we can make the playoffs, are they still a reasonable target?”
NA “Absolutely Scott. It’s a long season. 10 games in but we’re 10 games better off than we were before the season started, and we’ve grown as a group.”
Just playing out the post match interview on Valley Pass tomorrow night
Scott Minto “Nigel, thank you for joining us. A late rally at the end there, we got a goal back, like we did at Wycombe, but we’d already given ourselves a mountain to climb going in 2 behind before half time, what are your thoughts.”
NA “Look, it’s disappointing. We knew Bolton would come play expansive football but also keep 10 men behind the ball, that’s why I pushed Watson out wide and played Gunter off Purrington in my new 2-2-2-3-1 formation. We knew we’d have to do something to combat Bolton’s expansive game, I made the changes. It didn’t go according to plan and after they got their second, I went back to 4-2-3-1, our preferred formation, and there was a positive response, we won the second half.”
Scott Minto “You’re right Nigel, they rallied in the second half, but given this was the 4th game on the spin you’ve changed the line up and the formation, it could be said you’re still not sure of your best XI and how you want to play”
NA “I said when I got here we want to develop our own style of play, our own brand. Every good team, be Bolton tonight or Cheltenham the other week or Southampton’s under 23s next week have got their own style of play and we need to keep working on this and it won’t be long until we’ve got a settled team, a settled set up and a style the supporters can be proud of.”
Scott Minto “Well you mention the fans. They’ve seen 10 games now, what do you think they make of the progress?”
NA “We’re not where we need to be, but they can see the spirit. Pearcey was magnificent out there tonight. Battler, a true professional. Then we’ve got Watson. Gunter is another experienced pro. They’ll put their arms around the younger lads, we’ll be back in tomorrow to analyse it, we’ll take a look at it, and then we’ll get our heads down and plan for Saturday against another very good team in Fleetwood, who like all successful sides, have their own style of play that we’ll have to adapt to”
Scott Minto “We spent most of last season in the studio discussing if we can make the playoffs, are they still a reasonable target?”
NA “Absolutely Scott. It’s a long season. 10 games in but we’re 10 games better off than we were before the season started, and we’ve grown as a group.”
Scott Minto “Nigel, thank you”
You missed multiple uses of the word "reflect" otherwise spot on.
PWR the last umpteen pages but looking at the post heading it occurred to me that Adkins has probably never been ‘in’. We don’t chant about it being his red and white army or other such songs that mention the managers name, though I thought I’d heard a lame attempt at one point on Saturday but dismissed the idea of it and decided I’d misheard what was briefly being sung. And there’s the difference with Bowyer and Powell that had 100 per cent backing from day one and a residual reserve that could be banked for rainy days
Nige likes the phrase 'about himself' - he's got a good energy about himself at the moment or the group have a real spirit about themselves - jusy hope come 10pm tonight they have 3 points about themselves
Comments
Btw I am all for TS doing what he thinks is right including the political moves, so long as they make sense.
Now TS, if he sacks Adkins, has either got to give the job to JJ after what he said before or find another manager that is happy to work with the current set up, which fits Roddy's path way?
Would Ryan Lowe, name plucked at random from this thread, come without any of his own staff?
Do you take it to the nth degree and give it to Jackson, then Euell, then Hayes........
It's an admirable idea, in theory.
We are now fully into the league programme, but both manager, and players playing identity is still missing.
We are poor, but ultimately I think TS will give NA more time, until attendances fall dramatically.
Personally I have switched off to NA, his press conferences are banal, and this constant half glass full, and rose tinted version of events, is frustrating. I don’t dislike him, but he seems as far removed from the fan base as some of the more dubious incumbents we have suffered.
And from what I’ve seen so far, is JJ/JE so much worse? At least we have an affinity with them, and you never know, it may just work!
Paul Cooke was some other peoples favourite choice a while ago, how is he doing after spunking fortunes in the window ?
Yes performances have been bad but this squad is ok and I'm sure will click before long, give the bloke until xmas and see where we are
But how do you know how much of an impact Stephen Schumacher has had? Is it him that has drilled the defence and over seen the improvement?
Its not about the pros and cons of Jackson it's about giving any manager the best chances of being a success. If you employ someone like Lowe (I am only using him as an example) don't you want to give them the opportunity to replicate what has worked for them in the past?
If your prescribing the staff, the transfer policy and "playing the Charlton way", what ever that actually means you might as well make who ever makes these decisions the manager.
If the gap between jobs is too great, your staff might feel they can't wait any longer. Wilkins had already had a job at Palace working for Hodgson since he left Sheffield United, before joining Stevenage. Maybe if Adkins had taken the Charlton job a month earlier, Crosby would still have been available and he would have joined us, but having worked away from Adkins, maybe he enjoyed the fresh challenge
There's no real pattern to our team selections and tactics, as most of the time we seem to be reacting to opponents, rather than imposing ourselves. Other than the Gillingham first half, we've been "outfootballed" in just about every match
I’d want him to pick his team no matter how devastated I’d be to see JJ go.
All irrelevant as the way TS works he’d want Ainsworth in because he likes Rock music and has his shirt undone
Scott Minto “Nigel, thank you for joining us. A late rally at the end there, we got a goal back, like we did at Wycombe, but we’d already given ourselves a mountain to climb going in 2 behind before half time, what are your thoughts.”
NA “Look, it’s disappointing. We knew Bolton would come play expansive football but also keep 10 men behind the ball, that’s why I pushed Watson out wide and played Gunter off Purrington in my new 2-2-2-3-1 formation. We knew we’d have to do something to combat Bolton’s expansive game, I made the changes. It didn’t go according to plan and after they got their second, I went back to 4-2-3-1, our preferred formation, and there was a positive response, we won the second half.”
Scott Minto “You’re right Nigel, they rallied in the second half, but given this was the 4th game on the spin you’ve changed the line up and the formation, it could be said you’re still not sure of your best XI and how you want to play”
NA “I said when I got here we want to develop our own style of play, our own brand. Every good team, be Bolton tonight or Cheltenham the other week or Southampton’s under 23s next week have got their own style of play and we need to keep working on this and it won’t be long until we’ve got a settled team, a settled set up and a style the supporters can be proud of.”
Scott Minto “Well you mention the fans. They’ve seen 10 games now, what do you think they make of the progress?”
NA “We’re not where we need to be, but they can see the spirit. Pearcey was magnificent out there tonight. Battler, a true professional. Then we’ve got Watson. Gunter is another experienced pro. They’ll put their arms around the younger lads, we’ll be back in tomorrow to analyse it, we’ll take a look at it, and then we’ll get our heads down and plan for Saturday against another very good team in Fleetwood, who like all successful sides, have their own style of play that we’ll have to adapt to”
Scott Minto “We spent most of last season in the studio discussing if we can make the playoffs, are they still a reasonable target?”
NA “Absolutely Scott. It’s a long season. 10 games in but we’re 10 games better off than we were before the season started, and we’ve grown as a group.”
Scott Minto “Nigel, thank you”
In League One!!!
Has to go in the morning