Insulate Britain Protests (Blackwall Tunnel p22)

Gribbo

Some people can't win. It's either -

- look at him in his private jet,.
or 
- oh yeah but he can afford it.

I think the point is that, if you can afford to do more, you should.

orpingtonRED

I actually respect him a lot, as you say he's doing what he can afford.
But aint the protests about more affordable options for people?
If the government wanted to, they could make more incentives for people to switch to electric cars for example. The market is there and the appetite is there but until the costs come down people will not switch.

Covered End

orpingtonRED said:

Covered End said:

seth plum said:

I believe Prince Charles runs his 40 year old Aston Martin on cheese or something like that.

He said Challenged about his own efforts to reduce his carbon footprint, Prince Charles said he had switched the heating of Birkhall to biomass boilers, using wood chips from trees felled in the estate's forest.   

He has installed solar panels at Clarence House, his London residence, and on the farm buildings of his Gloucestershire home, Highgrove.   

He said he had installed heat pumps at some of his properties and a hydroelectric turbine in the river that runs beside Birkhall. 

He was also challenged on his long-standing love of cars, and asked if he was "a bit of a Jeremy Clarkson, a bit of a petrol-head?"

"Well, yes", the prince acknowledged: "But that was before we knew what the problems were."  

He said he had converted his favourite vehicle, an Aston Martin he has owned for 51 years, to run on what he described as "surplus English white wine and whey from the cheese process".

His Aston Martin has been modified to run on a fuel called E85 - made up of 85% bioethanol and 15% unleaded petrol.

Bioethanol can be derived from different sources - including in the case of the prince's car - surplus wine and alcohol extracted from fermented whey.

He also said action such as blocking roads isn't helpful and they are doing it in a way that alienates people.

Fair play to him but it's easier for him than the average person isn't it.
I wonder if I can get an A3 converted to run on surplus alcohol.
Not knocking him really just find the whole preaching of wealthy people quite galling 

Did you watch the interview?
I wouldn't say answering the questions put to you is preaching.
I'd say it was answering questions in a full and frank manner.

Siv_in_Norfolk

orpingtonRED said:

I actually respect him a lot, as you say he's doing what he can afford.
But aint the protests about more affordable options for people?
If the government wanted to, they could make more incentives for people to switch to electric cars for example. The market is there and the appetite is there but until the costs come down people will not switch.

Well said 

BR7_addick

orpingtonRED said:

I actually respect him a lot, as you say he's doing what he can afford.
But aint the protests about more affordable options for people?
If the government wanted to, they could make more incentives for people to switch to electric cars for example. The market is there and the appetite is there but until the costs come down people will not switch.

It’s 2021, when a person with a few quid suggests something be done to help less fortunate, you’re supposed to shout champagne socialist.

cafc999

orpingtonRED said:

I actually respect him a lot, as you say he's doing what he can afford.
But aint the protests about more affordable options for people?
If the government wanted to, they could make more incentives for people to switch to electric cars for example. The market is there and the appetite is there but until the costs come down people will not switch.

We do not have the means for everyone to run electric cars. Lack of charging stations for example let alone people living in flats or houses without their own parking facility. Let's not mention getting rid of the batteries once their life cycle is over too.

Cloudworm

Good to see that broader, more general  conversations are breaking out about climate change and energy use on this thread. People are clearly reflecting on their own habits and the behaviour of others in the public eye.

aliwibble

orpingtonRED said:

I actually respect him a lot, as you say he's doing what he can afford.
But aint the protests about more affordable options for people?
If the government wanted to, they could make more incentives for people to switch to electric cars for example. The market is there and the appetite is there but until the costs come down people will not switch.

The thing is, if we're talking about reducing carbon emissions, at this point that money's going to be better spent on increasing renewables and nuclear (if we can sort out the nuclear waste problem) generating capacity rather than incentivising people switching to electric vehicles. Otherwise you're only moving the emissions problem back to the generation stage, and adding in a load of inefficiencies due to transmission line losses. Admittedly it would help with particulate pollution levels, but that's a different argument.

StrikerFirmani

SporadicAddick said:

Karim_myBagheri said:

AndyG said:

For once a thread I can contribute on with a decent amount of knowledge.
The figures these people are quoting re uninsulated homes are total rubbish. Or family business was formed in 1974 and its main business activity was insulation. Over the years the business has diversified into other product areas and in 2014 we closed the insulation side. We did this as after 40 years of filling cavities in properties there just were not many left to do. Today there are a few businesses left but in the main they are scratching around trying to find properties or concentrating on new build properties.
The problem we have in the UK is that we have old housing stock that is worth far too much money. 1000's of streets of solid wall properties that should have been demolished years ago and replaced with more energy efficient buildings.

Those solid wall properties that you mention. I rather not have them knocked down due to the fact that alot of the new buildings that are put up look shite. (i live in one, well, sort off, 20 years old the building) Can those old buildings be properly insulated (if of course the owner wants them to be)? 

Notwithstanding the aesthetic and historical importance of those buildings, there is a also a fine balance between the inefficiency of those buildings and the carbon impact of demolition and rebuild. Its not as simple as saying knock down old buildings and build new ones...

Also it is wrong to say old buildings can not be insulated.

there are insulating systems that can be applied to outside of them to insulate.  In fact Architects I have spoken to reckon its more effective to wrap a building with insulation. 

Chippycafc

On LBC its being reported they are at Purfleet, looks like the drivers are taking the law into their own hands.  Getting nasty punches and kicking going on.

Lordflashheart

Chippycafc said:

On LBC its being reported they are at Purfleet, looks like the drivers are taking the law into their own hands.  Getting nasty punches and kicking going on.

As has been predicted by many on here, drivers are now taking their own action - it won’t be long and there will either be a protestor badly beaten up, or a protestor seriously injured or even killed after being struck by a vehicle - I’m not saying it’s right, just that it’s inevitable - there are people out there who would run them down

seth plum

I think it is inevitable there will be serious injury if these protestors continue this action.
For the drivers they are going about their day mentally unprepared, when they come across the sit down protests, the protestors are mentally prepared.
To an extent it could be argued that any action by the non protesting public is impulsive and reactive, there was no ‘intent’ when people set out about their day, but clearly there is late onset intent when ‘impulsive’ action occurs. There is clear premeditated intent from the protestors and an issue for me is journalists know about it before the police.
It is as well the protestors are so passive mind you.
Perhaps the ante from the protestors side will increase and intensify as time goes on, maybe one maverick (?) protestor will turn up with a container of acid or something dreadful like that.
The immediate issue is the protestors are able to take action in a practical sense, can they all be caught, processed and sanctioned until protestors run out of people?
I am irritated that these actions distract from other news, other issues of the moment.

Raith_C_Chattonell

aliwibble said:

orpingtonRED said:

I actually respect him a lot, as you say he's doing what he can afford.
But aint the protests about more affordable options for people?
If the government wanted to, they could make more incentives for people to switch to electric cars for example. The market is there and the appetite is there but until the costs come down people will not switch.

The thing is, if we're talking about reducing carbon emissions, at this point that money's going to be better spent on increasing renewables and nuclear (if we can sort out the nuclear waste problem) generating capacity rather than incentivising people switching to electric vehicles. Otherwise you're only moving the emissions problem back to the generation stage, and adding in a load of inefficiencies due to transmission line losses. Admittedly it would help with particulate pollution levels, but that's a different argument.

Lots of copper required to wire up the network for electric cars.  They mine huge amounts of copper in Chile, but suffer a terrible fate with cases of lung cancer going through the roof.  It seems there are terrible consequences for mining the other 17 elements of rare earths which are essential in modern technology.  With China hosting 80% of them let's not get started on the politics.

As recommended above, the documentary called 'The Dark Side Of Green Energy' is a real eye opener.  Experts at the end of the program concluded that we need to take less of everything.  Chances of that happening?  Zero.

 

Addickted

StrikerFirmani said:

SporadicAddick said:

Karim_myBagheri said:

AndyG said:

For once a thread I can contribute on with a decent amount of knowledge.
The figures these people are quoting re uninsulated homes are total rubbish. Or family business was formed in 1974 and its main business activity was insulation. Over the years the business has diversified into other product areas and in 2014 we closed the insulation side. We did this as after 40 years of filling cavities in properties there just were not many left to do. Today there are a few businesses left but in the main they are scratching around trying to find properties or concentrating on new build properties.
The problem we have in the UK is that we have old housing stock that is worth far too much money. 1000's of streets of solid wall properties that should have been demolished years ago and replaced with more energy efficient buildings.

Those solid wall properties that you mention. I rather not have them knocked down due to the fact that alot of the new buildings that are put up look shite. (i live in one, well, sort off, 20 years old the building) Can those old buildings be properly insulated (if of course the owner wants them to be)? 

Notwithstanding the aesthetic and historical importance of those buildings, there is a also a fine balance between the inefficiency of those buildings and the carbon impact of demolition and rebuild. Its not as simple as saying knock down old buildings and build new ones...

Also it is wrong to say old buildings can not be insulated.

there are insulating systems that can be applied to outside of them to insulate.  In fact Architects I have spoken to reckon its more effective to wrap a building with insulation. 

Architects - what do they know about the practicalities of installing external installation to a row of Victorian and Edwardian solid brick housing?

Do you really believe the vast majority of them are interested in the alterations required at roof, soffit, window, door details, services and drainage that each will need major alterations on at high cost and use of energy? Or the type of fixing and insulation behind their pretty external cladding?

Or the planning permission required, or the permission of the owners who really don't want the disruption, or the missing freeholders living around the World who are impossible to find? Or Doris likes the green, but Sylvia next door prefers the purple and Hilda is smitten with the fuscia?

What about those who have already had it done, but are not up to the current standards? Or those who have had PV panels fitted on their roofs?

There are hundreds of issues demanded of installing insulation - whether internal or external - to aging properties, let alone medium and high rise, that a couple of Architects who you know, who probably spend more time online shopping for sandals and cravats than actually looking into the issues with the maintenance and up keep of properties their illustrious fore fathers designed.

Real Architects will be fawning over whom of their colleagues is going to be winning the Stirling Prize tomorrow - live on TV, don't you know - and publications will have nothing but page after page of why their 'stunning, beautiful and practical' building will change the World forever.

Insulation Update page 46.

SporadicAddick

Addickted said:

StrikerFirmani said:

SporadicAddick said:

Karim_myBagheri said:

AndyG said:

For once a thread I can contribute on with a decent amount of knowledge.
The figures these people are quoting re uninsulated homes are total rubbish. Or family business was formed in 1974 and its main business activity was insulation. Over the years the business has diversified into other product areas and in 2014 we closed the insulation side. We did this as after 40 years of filling cavities in properties there just were not many left to do. Today there are a few businesses left but in the main they are scratching around trying to find properties or concentrating on new build properties.
The problem we have in the UK is that we have old housing stock that is worth far too much money. 1000's of streets of solid wall properties that should have been demolished years ago and replaced with more energy efficient buildings.

Those solid wall properties that you mention. I rather not have them knocked down due to the fact that alot of the new buildings that are put up look shite. (i live in one, well, sort off, 20 years old the building) Can those old buildings be properly insulated (if of course the owner wants them to be)? 

Notwithstanding the aesthetic and historical importance of those buildings, there is a also a fine balance between the inefficiency of those buildings and the carbon impact of demolition and rebuild. Its not as simple as saying knock down old buildings and build new ones...

Also it is wrong to say old buildings can not be insulated.

there are insulating systems that can be applied to outside of them to insulate.  In fact Architects I have spoken to reckon its more effective to wrap a building with insulation. 

Architects - what do they know about the practicalities of installing external installation to a row of Victorian and Edwardian solid brick housing?

Do you really believe the vast majority of them are interested in the alterations required at roof, soffit, window, door details, services and drainage that each will need major alterations on at high cost and use of energy? Or the type of fixing and insulation behind their pretty external cladding?

Or the planning permission required, or the permission of the owners who really don't want the disruption, or the missing freeholders living around the World who are impossible to find? Or Doris likes the green, but Sylvia next door prefers the purple and Hilda is smitten with the fuscia?

What about those who have already had it done, but are not up to the current standards? Or those who have had PV panels fitted on their roofs?

There are hundreds of issues demanded of installing insulation - whether internal or external - to aging properties, let alone medium and high rise, that a couple of Architects who you know, who probably spend more time online shopping for sandals and cravats than actually looking into the issues with the maintenance and up keep of properties their illustrious fore fathers designed.

Real Architects will be fawning over whom of their colleagues is going to be winning the Stirling Prize tomorrow - live on TV, don't you know - and publications will have nothing but page after page of why their 'stunning, beautiful and practical' building will change the World forever.

Insulation Update page 46.

And shawls...

O-Randy-Hunt

Chippycafc said:

On LBC its being reported they are at Purfleet, looks like the drivers are taking the law into their own hands.  Getting nasty punches and kicking going on.

Gribbo

Addickted said:

StrikerFirmani said:

SporadicAddick said:

Karim_myBagheri said:

AndyG said:

For once a thread I can contribute on with a decent amount of knowledge.
The figures these people are quoting re uninsulated homes are total rubbish. Or family business was formed in 1974 and its main business activity was insulation. Over the years the business has diversified into other product areas and in 2014 we closed the insulation side. We did this as after 40 years of filling cavities in properties there just were not many left to do. Today there are a few businesses left but in the main they are scratching around trying to find properties or concentrating on new build properties.
The problem we have in the UK is that we have old housing stock that is worth far too much money. 1000's of streets of solid wall properties that should have been demolished years ago and replaced with more energy efficient buildings.

Those solid wall properties that you mention. I rather not have them knocked down due to the fact that alot of the new buildings that are put up look shite. (i live in one, well, sort off, 20 years old the building) Can those old buildings be properly insulated (if of course the owner wants them to be)? 

Notwithstanding the aesthetic and historical importance of those buildings, there is a also a fine balance between the inefficiency of those buildings and the carbon impact of demolition and rebuild. Its not as simple as saying knock down old buildings and build new ones...

Also it is wrong to say old buildings can not be insulated.

there are insulating systems that can be applied to outside of them to insulate.  In fact Architects I have spoken to reckon its more effective to wrap a building with insulation. 

Architects - what do they know about the practicalities of installing external installation to a row of Victorian and Edwardian solid brick housing?

Do you really believe the vast majority of them are interested in the alterations required at roof, soffit, window, door details, services and drainage that each will need major alterations on at high cost and use of energy? Or the type of fixing and insulation behind their pretty external cladding?

This was exactly the problem I face when I decided not to insulate and larch clad my place.

SoundAsa£

35 arrests this morning around 8.30 at two locations on M25 slip roads in Essex.

stonemuse

Looking at some of the scenes, seems like some of these protestors want to be martyrs -continually jumping in front of a moving lorry - totally crazy. 

Todds_right_hook

Addickted said:

StrikerFirmani said:

SporadicAddick said:

Karim_myBagheri said:

AndyG said:

For once a thread I can contribute on with a decent amount of knowledge.
The figures these people are quoting re uninsulated homes are total rubbish. Or family business was formed in 1974 and its main business activity was insulation. Over the years the business has diversified into other product areas and in 2014 we closed the insulation side. We did this as after 40 years of filling cavities in properties there just were not many left to do. Today there are a few businesses left but in the main they are scratching around trying to find properties or concentrating on new build properties.
The problem we have in the UK is that we have old housing stock that is worth far too much money. 1000's of streets of solid wall properties that should have been demolished years ago and replaced with more energy efficient buildings.

Those solid wall properties that you mention. I rather not have them knocked down due to the fact that alot of the new buildings that are put up look shite. (i live in one, well, sort off, 20 years old the building) Can those old buildings be properly insulated (if of course the owner wants them to be)? 

Notwithstanding the aesthetic and historical importance of those buildings, there is a also a fine balance between the inefficiency of those buildings and the carbon impact of demolition and rebuild. Its not as simple as saying knock down old buildings and build new ones...

Also it is wrong to say old buildings can not be insulated.

there are insulating systems that can be applied to outside of them to insulate.  In fact Architects I have spoken to reckon its more effective to wrap a building with insulation. 

Architects - what do they know about the practicalities of installing external installation to a row of Victorian and Edwardian solid brick housing?

Do you really believe the vast majority of them are interested in the alterations required at roof, soffit, window, door details, services and drainage that each will need major alterations on at high cost and use of energy? Or the type of fixing and insulation behind their pretty external cladding?

Or the planning permission required, or the permission of the owners who really don't want the disruption, or the missing freeholders living around the World who are impossible to find? Or Doris likes the green, but Sylvia next door prefers the purple and Hilda is smitten with the fuscia?

What about those who have already had it done, but are not up to the current standards? Or those who have had PV panels fitted on their roofs?

There are hundreds of issues demanded of installing insulation - whether internal or external - to aging properties, let alone medium and high rise, that a couple of Architects who you know, who probably spend more time online shopping for sandals and cravats than actually looking into the issues with the maintenance and up keep of properties their illustrious fore fathers designed.

Real Architects will be fawning over whom of their colleagues is going to be winning the Stirling Prize tomorrow - live on TV, don't you know - and publications will have nothing but page after page of why their 'stunning, beautiful and practical' building will change the World forever.

Insulation Update page 46.

Spoken like a true MRICS. Love the sandal and cravat comment, I miss working in multi discipline practices, reminding architects if their limitations!

SantaClaus

The footage I saw was of people being dragged from the road to free up a lorry and a commentary from a woman who seemed fairly hysterical. I didn't see anyone being beaten up and it was actually quite funny that the protestors were being removed and then returning over and over again.

SantaClaus

https://youtu.be/SVBfJBVYK7k

blackpool72

I don't normally condone violence but some of there deserve a slap.

Gribbo

That girl sounded at her wits end.

Said it before, they're affecting people's mental health. After the last couple of years these people have had, all they want to do is get to work and get back to normal.

red10

Would pissing on them be deemed assult / indecent exposure ?

Lordflashheart

red10 said:

Would pissing on them be deemed assult / indecent exposure ?

Both !!

Gribbo

red10 said:

Would pissing on them be deemed assult / indecent exposure ?

Not if I done it, it wouldn't. Mine done show beyond me under crackers this time of year

soapy_jones

Just fill up a couple of plastic bags and lob them as you go past...

If you need a hand PM me.  I have a curry on Friday night btw.

JollyRobin

red10 said:

Would pissing on them be deemed assult / indecent exposure ?

Yes

SporadicAddick

Gribbo said:

red10 said:

Would pissing on them be deemed assult / indecent exposure ?

Not if I done it, it wouldn't. Mine done show beyond me under crackers this time of year

Some things are best left unknown...