PWR Wholesale gas prices have increased by about 90%, however the cost of producing that gas hasn't risen by much so why has the price increased by so much - OK I know market forces but why should the producing companies be allowed to increase the prices by so much - it is immoral, or have I got this wrong?
I am working through a BBC series by Adam Fleming about the current Prime Minister Boris Johnson. It is a good insight. One bit that indicated to me how the privileged ruling class, that every Tory voter empowered, think was about Boris Johnson at Balliol College Oxford. He would deliberately seek out lonely ‘plain’ rather overweight women at the University, work his ‘charm’ and ‘charisma’ on them so they would become his loyal drones working unrewarded on his campaigns to become president of the Oxford Union and anything else. Then they were ghosted. This is the person who led the campaign to leave the EU, which is demonstrably a disaster, and won the 2019 election. His is the Tory mindset, and to me the mindset of Tory voters. Anybody know how to bring the country together?
Fire remainers out of a cannon. That is the Tory mindset that won the 2019 election.
Alternatively, boring those that disagree with you to death with attention seeking rhetorical diatribes, which seems to be your favoured approach, might reap rewards.
Your rudeness towards Seth is relentless. It doesn't put you in a good light, which I know you certainly see yourself in.
Every single measure will be able to be picked apart as not being good enough, and they will be by people that have blinkers on, twas ever thus.
The real test will be to look at the whole package of measures, then we can start having a proper discussion, rather than sniping at them one by one.
Just a couple more weeks.
The Tory leadership election should never have taken this long in such a national crisis.
I was always under the impression that we elect a party to govern by Cabinet, with the approval of Parliament, we don't elect a Prime Minister to make all the decisions alone.
This is an interesting article in the Sunday Times exploring polling. Polling is one of the indicators of 'mindsets' which I referenced above. The article does not resolve in any particular definitive way, but I would say it is worthwhile in an attempt to explore thinking in the nation, and that same kind of thinking previously, and how election results might be understood.
This is an interesting article in the Sunday Times exploring polling. Polling is one of the indicators of 'mindsets' which I referenced above. The article does not resolve in any particular definitive way, but I would say it is worthwhile in an attempt to explore thinking in the nation, and that same kind of thinking previously, and how election results might be understood.
The Tory mindset can change, people who know me would never have believed that I would ever change my views, however the mess made by the current Government, on virtually everything, has certainly made that happen.
This is an interesting article in the Sunday Times exploring polling. Polling is one of the indicators of 'mindsets' which I referenced above. The article does not resolve in any particular definitive way, but I would say it is worthwhile in an attempt to explore thinking in the nation, and that same kind of thinking previously, and how election results might be understood.
This is an interesting article in the Sunday Times exploring polling. Polling is one of the indicators of 'mindsets' which I referenced above. The article does not resolve in any particular definitive way, but I would say it is worthwhile in an attempt to explore thinking in the nation, and that same kind of thinking previously, and how election results might be understood.
The Tory mindset can change, people who know me would never have believed that I would ever change my views, however the mess made by the current Government, on virtually everything, has certainly made that happen.
I actually admire you. Not because you agree with me about anything, but because of your honesty and desire to reflect on previously held attitudes. It might be worthwhile pointing out that despite my feelings towards everything Tory, I said at the time and have repeated since, that Theresa May of all people tried to behave like a proper politician, and come up with a solution to the nightmare of leave that might have worked, certainly with regard to the Irish border. On that basis (that sometimes even Tory politicians try to get a job done) I could understand why you have been a Tory voter. I certainly don't position myself as a Labour supporter, but sometimes one votes for the least worst choice, added to my eagerness to know about my actual MP. You have done the same by trying to communicate with Helen Whately to your immense credit. Please don't feel the need to apologise to me for anything, you are not a chameleon like some who flick the pages back and forth according to whatever they think makes them look good. You have turned a page as it were, and I think your journey is motivated by honesty, perception, and a good appraisal of the things staring you in the face.
This is an interesting article in the Sunday Times exploring polling. Polling is one of the indicators of 'mindsets' which I referenced above. The article does not resolve in any particular definitive way, but I would say it is worthwhile in an attempt to explore thinking in the nation, and that same kind of thinking previously, and how election results might be understood.
The Tory mindset can change, people who know me would never have believed that I would ever change my views, however the mess made by the current Government, on virtually everything, has certainly made that happen.
I actually admire you. Not because you agree with me about anything, but because of your honesty and desire to reflect on previously held attitudes. It might be worthwhile pointing out that despite my feelings towards everything Tory, I said at the time and have repeated since, that Theresa May of all people tried to behave like a proper politician, and come up with a solution to the nightmare of leave that might have worked, certainly with regard to the Irish border. On that basis (that sometimes even Tory politicians try to get a job done) I could understand why you have been a Tory voter. I certainly don't position myself as a Labour supporter, but sometimes one votes for the least worst choice, added to my eagerness to know about my actual MP. You have done the same by trying to communicate with Helen Whately to your immense credit. Please don't feel the need to apologise to me for anything, you are not a chameleon like some who flick the pages back and forth according to whatever they think makes them look good. You have turned a page as it were, and I think your journey is motivated by honesty, perception, and a good appraisal of the things staring you in the face.
Being reported that Truss is seriously considering a 5% cut to VAT saving an average household £1300 per year. How is this £1300 going to make enough difference when if the cap is not frozen we’re currently looking at yearly energy costs of £6000 pa in the spring. It’s said this will cost £35 billion. Sounds like a cheap and insufficient intervention.
for most people VAT cuts only apply to buying stuff from their wages/salaries /pensions and does not increase their income .. if after paying all your bills and mostly non VATed food you have no money left, a VAT cut is useless .. is good only to stimulate the retail economy
Being reported that Truss is seriously considering a 5% cut to VAT saving an average household £1300 per year. How is this £1300 going to make enough difference when if the cap is not frozen we’re currently looking at yearly energy costs of £6000 pa in the spring. It’s said this will cost £35 billion. Sounds like a cheap and insufficient intervention.
for most people VAT cuts only apply to buying stuff from their wages/salaries /pensions and does not increase their income .. if after paying all your bills and mostly non VATed food you have no money left, a VAT cut is useless .. is good only to stimulate the retail economy
Absolutely this!
If most of your money goes on items that do not attract VAT you can't benefit from a VAT cut. When we have people who are having to make decisions between heating and eating, they can't afford other 'luxuries', therefore a 5% VAT cut is of little use.
A very good read about why we are paying so much for energy in the UK.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There is much talk happening on how to solve the so-called cost-of-living crisis. Most of it fails to recognise that the problem is much bigger than that: the whole economy is in meltdown. None seems to address the cost of energy itself. A thread on the last, vital, point….</p>— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) <a href="
A very good read about why we are paying so much for energy in the UK.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There is much talk happening on how to solve the so-called cost-of-living crisis. Most of it fails to recognise that the problem is much bigger than that: the whole economy is in meltdown. None seems to address the cost of energy itself. A thread on the last, vital, point….</p>— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) <a href="
I like reading this guys stuff, to my ignorant eyes every time he posts something I’m in total agreement but I’m never sure if that’s just me living in my echo chamber. I’ve actually stopped looking at Twitter over the last two weeks as it just depresses/stresses me out too much constantly reading about how we’re on the edge of oblivion. It’s actually been good for my mental health to be honest.
Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.
Being reported that Truss is seriously considering a 5% cut to VAT saving an average household £1300 per year. How is this £1300 going to make enough difference when if the cap is not frozen we’re currently looking at yearly energy costs of £6000 pa in the spring. It’s said this will cost £35 billion. Sounds like a cheap and insufficient intervention.
for most people VAT cuts only apply to buying stuff from their wages/salaries /pensions and does not increase their income .. if after paying all your bills and mostly non VATed food you have no money left, a VAT cut is useless .. is good only to stimulate the retail economy
Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.
Not too far from where I currently live there is an enormous housing development called City Fields. It’s a 375 hectare space with developments by all the usual housing builders including Redrow, Miller, Bellway, Avant. Some phases are built and have people living in them and others are still under construction. I pass by it when I’m going to work and it occurred to me that I can’t see one house anywhere that’s got solar panels fitted. Not one. That’s not to say there are not some somewhere but I’m betting if there are, which I doubt if I’m honest there are not many. This development has over 1000 homes and I think it’s a disgrace that newly built homes are not being made to be constructed with at least solar energy. This crisis has reached boiling point but the need for new developments to have built in solar should have been mandatory for at least five years.
Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.
Not too far from where I currently live there is an enormous housing development called City Fields. It’s a 375 hectare space with developments by all the usual housing builders including Redrow, Miller, Bellway, Avant. Some phases are built and have people living in them and others are still under construction. I pass by it when I’m going to work and it occurred to me that I can’t see one house anywhere that’s got solar panels fitted. Not one. That’s not to say there are not some somewhere but I’m betting if there are, which I doubt if I’m honest there are not many. This development has over 1000 homes and I think it’s a disgrace that newly built homes are not being made to be constructed with at least solar energy. This crisis has reached boiling point but the need for new developments to have built in solar should have been mandatory for at least five years.
Absolutely. If you look at YouTube at van conversions where more and more people are doing ‘stealth’ living off grid, nearly all of them install modest solar panels. Every single new build should have some kind of solar energy conduit, surely that is a no brainer?
Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.
Not too far from where I currently live there is an enormous housing development called City Fields. It’s a 375 hectare space with developments by all the usual housing builders including Redrow, Miller, Bellway, Avant. Some phases are built and have people living in them and others are still under construction. I pass by it when I’m going to work and it occurred to me that I can’t see one house anywhere that’s got solar panels fitted. Not one. That’s not to say there are not some somewhere but I’m betting if there are, which I doubt if I’m honest there are not many. This development has over 1000 homes and I think it’s a disgrace that newly built homes are not being made to be constructed with at least solar energy. This crisis has reached boiling point but the need for new developments to have built in solar should have been mandatory for at least five years.
Absolutely. If you look at YouTube at van conversions where more and more people are doing ‘stealth’ living off grid, nearly all of them install modest solar panels. Every single new build should have some kind of solar energy conduit, surely that is a no brainer?
I’m guessing that adding solar panals adds to the constructors cost but adds little or nothing in the price of the completed house 🤷🏻♂️
Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.
Not too far from where I currently live there is an enormous housing development called City Fields. It’s a 375 hectare space with developments by all the usual housing builders including Redrow, Miller, Bellway, Avant. Some phases are built and have people living in them and others are still under construction. I pass by it when I’m going to work and it occurred to me that I can’t see one house anywhere that’s got solar panels fitted. Not one. That’s not to say there are not some somewhere but I’m betting if there are, which I doubt if I’m honest there are not many. This development has over 1000 homes and I think it’s a disgrace that newly built homes are not being made to be constructed with at least solar energy. This crisis has reached boiling point but the need for new developments to have built in solar should have been mandatory for at least five years.
Absolutely. If you look at YouTube at van conversions where more and more people are doing ‘stealth’ living off grid, nearly all of them install modest solar panels. Every single new build should have some kind of solar energy conduit, surely that is a no brainer?
I’m guessing that adding solar panals adds to the constructors cost but adds little or nothing in the price of the completed house 🤷🏻♂️
I can't find a link to an article I read about using all forms of energy in new houses, but it suggested that it would add about £10K to the cost of a new house to put in things like heat pumps, solar panels, geo thermal heating and better insulation. The developers didn't want to do it because it would eat into their profits, and as the Tory party is a beneficiary of donations from developers, they of course didn't enforce it.
Even if the costs of greener energy were to be paid by the buyer of a new property, with house price increases and cheaper energy bills, it would pay for itself.
Rather than subsidising consumers, the government should subsidise the price of gas burned by power stations. Being the most significant form of electricity generation, gas fired power generators set the benchmark for wholesale electricity prices, whatever its source. Gas power, which accounts for less than 40% of the market therefore sets an artificially high price for solar, wind and nuclear, which are then accused of making excess profits.
Article from 2015 when the Government decided to scrap the zero carbon homes plan. How much better off the owners of new houses built since 2015 would be now, if all of them had been built with greener forms of energy.
Not too far from where I currently live there is an enormous housing development called City Fields. It’s a 375 hectare space with developments by all the usual housing builders including Redrow, Miller, Bellway, Avant. Some phases are built and have people living in them and others are still under construction. I pass by it when I’m going to work and it occurred to me that I can’t see one house anywhere that’s got solar panels fitted. Not one. That’s not to say there are not some somewhere but I’m betting if there are, which I doubt if I’m honest there are not many. This development has over 1000 homes and I think it’s a disgrace that newly built homes are not being made to be constructed with at least solar energy. This crisis has reached boiling point but the need for new developments to have built in solar should have been mandatory for at least five years.
This is because new build properties have to meet certain SAP ratings in energy efficiency. If they can get away with it the big developers wont put renewables in. They build down to a price not to a specification. In Wales any new development can now only be built if the have heat pumps and solar
I posted a Twitter link earlier this morning but have found a better link which is easier to read for everyone. It discusses how energy prices are set in this country and I have never heard it mentioned anywhere else and it would appear that the big energy providers have a vested interest in it remaining out of the public domain. I have copied the parts of the article which are the most enlightening, as I think more people deserve to know just how much we are being ripped off in this country, however there are caveats so reading the whole article would be better.
It’s important to remember that the goal of energy regulation in the UK is to preserve the privatised energy ‘market’, whatever else is claimed. In essence, everything it does is meant to ensure that at least some of the companies engaged in this ‘market’ do not fail.
The way it sets energy prices reflects this. There are lots of ways to generate electricity in the UK. Renewables, nuclear, coal, hydro and gas all play a part. Most are used, except coal, which is now only in emergency use.
The cost of generating electricity using these various methods varies greatly. For example, using gas at current spot market prices costs about £611 per megawatt hour (MWh) right now. Other sources cost about £60/MWh for nuclear, £50/MWh hydro and in the range £50 to £140/MWh for on and offshore wind and PV. Those are big differences.
The electricity we actually get delivered to our houses is from a mix of all these sources. It is total nonsense, for example, that anyone supplies pure renewable electricity. All electricity from all generating sources is mixed together when it goes down the wires to our houses.
Bizarrely, however, that’s not how the price is set. The wholesale price of electricity in the UK is set on what is called a ‘marginal costing’ basis. This is much beloved of economists but is working against the interests of all consumers of fuel right now.
What it means is that the wholesale energy price is set so that the most expensive producer can make a profit from the sales they make into the wholesale energy market.
So, since gas-produced electricity is the most expensive to produce right now (and is likely to be so for a long time to come) its cost of manufacture plus a fair profit margin sets the wholesale price for all electricity right now, however it is generated.
What that means is that those producing electricity from gas can still make a profit and so stay in business at present. But what it also means is that the nuclear, hydro and renewables producers are being paid the price that the gas generators get.
This makes no sense at all. For example, there is no ‘marginal cost of production’ for wind and solar power: the wind and sun are free. In those cases a marginal costing is simply the wrong one to use.
That is also true of nuclear power, where the cost of production is based on the capital cost of the plant spread over its useful life. Again, a marginal costing basis for pricing makes no sense when the amount of variable input into the nuclear process is tiny.
The result is obvious: the profit in the nuclear and renewable producing companies, who usually make more than half of UK electricity, increase dramatically, and wholly unnecessarily when a marginal costing price setting model is used to suit gas generators of electricity.
Comments
I was always under the impression that we elect a party to govern by Cabinet, with the approval of Parliament, we don't elect a Prime Minister to make all the decisions alone.
Polling is one of the indicators of 'mindsets' which I referenced above.
The article does not resolve in any particular definitive way, but I would say it is worthwhile in an attempt to explore thinking in the nation, and that same kind of thinking previously, and how election results might be understood.
https://archive.ph/CUiNG
The Tory mindset can change, people who know me would never have believed that I would ever change my views, however the mess made by the current Government, on virtually everything, has certainly made that happen.
It might be worthwhile pointing out that despite my feelings towards everything Tory, I said at the time and have repeated since, that Theresa May of all people tried to behave like a proper politician, and come up with a solution to the nightmare of leave that might have worked, certainly with regard to the Irish border. On that basis (that sometimes even Tory politicians try to get a job done) I could understand why you have been a Tory voter.
I certainly don't position myself as a Labour supporter, but sometimes one votes for the least worst choice, added to my eagerness to know about my actual MP.
You have done the same by trying to communicate with Helen Whately to your immense credit.
Please don't feel the need to apologise to me for anything, you are not a chameleon like some who flick the pages back and forth according to whatever they think makes them look good. You have turned a page as it were, and I think your journey is motivated by honesty, perception, and a good appraisal of the things staring you in the face.
Is any of 'our' energy producing infrastructure actually in UK hands?
If most of your money goes on items that do not attract VAT you can't benefit from a VAT cut. When we have people who are having to make decisions between heating and eating, they can't afford other 'luxuries', therefore a 5% VAT cut is of little use.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There is much talk happening on how to solve the so-called cost-of-living crisis. Most of it fails to recognise that the problem is much bigger than that: the whole economy is in meltdown. None seems to address the cost of energy itself. A thread on the last, vital, point….</p>— Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy) <a href="
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/10/uk-scraps-zero-carbon-home-target
If you look at YouTube at van conversions where more and more people are doing ‘stealth’ living off grid, nearly all of them install modest solar panels.
Every single new build should have some kind of solar energy conduit, surely that is a no brainer?
Even if the costs of greener energy were to be paid by the buyer of a new property, with house price increases and cheaper energy bills, it would pay for itself.
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2022/08/29/we-could-massively-reduce-the-price-of-energy-in-the-uk-by-changing-the-way-we-regulate-energy-prices/
It’s important to remember that the goal of energy regulation in the UK is to preserve the privatised energy ‘market’, whatever else is claimed. In essence, everything it does is meant to ensure that at least some of the companies engaged in this ‘market’ do not fail.
The way it sets energy prices reflects this. There are lots of ways to generate electricity in the UK. Renewables, nuclear, coal, hydro and gas all play a part. Most are used, except coal, which is now only in emergency use.
The cost of generating electricity using these various methods varies greatly. For example, using gas at current spot market prices costs about £611 per megawatt hour (MWh) right now. Other sources cost about £60/MWh for nuclear, £50/MWh hydro and in the range £50 to £140/MWh for on and offshore wind and PV. Those are big differences.
The electricity we actually get delivered to our houses is from a mix of all these sources. It is total nonsense, for example, that anyone supplies pure renewable electricity. All electricity from all generating sources is mixed together when it goes down the wires to our houses.
Bizarrely, however, that’s not how the price is set. The wholesale price of electricity in the UK is set on what is called a ‘marginal costing’ basis. This is much beloved of economists but is working against the interests of all consumers of fuel right now.
What it means is that the wholesale energy price is set so that the most expensive producer can make a profit from the sales they make into the wholesale energy market.
So, since gas-produced electricity is the most expensive to produce right now (and is likely to be so for a long time to come) its cost of manufacture plus a fair profit margin sets the wholesale price for all electricity right now, however it is generated.
What that means is that those producing electricity from gas can still make a profit and so stay in business at present. But what it also means is that the nuclear, hydro and renewables producers are being paid the price that the gas generators get.
This makes no sense at all. For example, there is no ‘marginal cost of production’ for wind and solar power: the wind and sun are free. In those cases a marginal costing is simply the wrong one to use.
That is also true of nuclear power, where the cost of production is based on the capital cost of the plant spread over its useful life. Again, a marginal costing basis for pricing makes no sense when the amount of variable input into the nuclear process is tiny.
The result is obvious: the profit in the nuclear and renewable producing companies, who usually make more than half of UK electricity, increase dramatically, and wholly unnecessarily when a marginal costing price setting model is used to suit gas generators of electricity.