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Charlie Kirk (p67 - released by Crewe)

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  • Despite having the lowest marks I have seen on the scores on the doors, other than Trevor kettle, a few weeks ago, the challenge is for the coaches and JJ to see if he can find a role in this team even if it's only when we have injuries (which is every week !) 
    Putting him on for Lee in his role late on  when we are not chasing the game is the only position at present where he may fit in.
     Retention of the ball is a big part of the game and with CBT, Leko and DJ being the flair players he needs to be the water carrier who is accurate with his passing. Lee is street ahead of him so he has to find his A game and fit in and contribute. More central and not inverse winger may help him reinvent himself at Cafc.

    I like to see his stats at Crewe because does he have a clever agent or were Sheffield United really interested in Charlie Kirk ? If so he must've more in his locker that we haven't seen ! 

  • I actually though yesterday that him not wanting to run at the defenders and to pass back seemed more like a confidence issue than an ability issue.
    I remember the Gilbey podcast when he mentioned that when he was performing badly for us that it made him want to play negatively and pass backwards out of fear of doing more damage than good, could be similar in my opinion.
  • LTKapal said:
    I actually though yesterday that him not wanting to run at the defenders and to pass back seemed more like a confidence issue than an ability issue.
    I remember the Gilbey podcast when he mentioned that when he was performing badly for us that it made him want to play negatively and pass backwards out of fear of doing more damage than good, could be similar in my opinion.
    I agree. Looked like he lacked the conviction to deliver more than any physical attribute.
  • Kap10 said:
    The guy has just list his dad, moved from up north to London, I am willing to write this season off for him. He has a positive history in L1 so willing to give him time to get over life changing events 
    My father lost his own dad when he was 9. Life was a struggle in the depression.  At 23 (Kirks age) he was in the 2nd wave at D Day, Operation Market Garden, was stuck in the middle of the Battle of the Bulge . There were many others like him.

    They had no time to sulk or hide.


    .Kirk has a fine life style and a Range Rover. Give him 8 months and wipe out this season. For God's sake why ? He needs to buckle down and justify the owner's expense on him now, not next bloody year.
    Ahhh the old "he's got money, and a previous generation had it harder so he should stop complaining" argument.

    I shouldn't rise to it... but its... just... beautiful!!
  • DJ started off very slowly for us with a lot of fans unimpressed by his early performances.

    Is now doing a lot better in the team as he's managed to regain his confidence, even in an unfamiliar position and is a proper pain in the arse for the opposition at the moment - Hopefully Charlie can learn from that himself.
    But DJ always had pace and energy and he’s added a work ethic .  Kirk doesn’t have pace or energy .  
  • Sadly I wasn't impressed with Kirk when he played against us at the Valley, but I was told on here that I must have been watching a different game.  

    It was all slow, easy to defend attacking play. I'm also struggling with the fact he can't hit a ball very hard or beyond 30 metres.
  • Kirk is one of the best wingers at this level for a few years the stats don’t lie …. 
    There a number of reasons perhaps where he found it difficult..of course the main one being his personal life the death of his father could not happened at a worst time for him , this could not have helped in trying to settle miles from home .. 
    but the other reason is change of manager and system , he was brought in to play in a three behind the line striker now we are not playing that way .. last night he had to play wing back and like CBT this is not his role … you could tell he was very aware of what was behind him which restricted him really going forward and doing what a winger would do .. 


  • He just needs some time. He looked comfortable on the ball, and the worn out team didn't help when he went forward. I'm sure he'll come good after a few more games, once the coaching team have worked with him.
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  • edited November 2021
    Confidence is the magic ingredient in football and can be completely transformative for a player. Kirk looks devoid of it at the moment. He hasn't impressed yet, but certainly shouldn't be written off at this time.
  • Leuth said:
    I'll say it again: if Ben Reeves didn't have fitness issues he'd be comfortably a Championship player
    He was an all style no substance player that lacked style.
  • Leuth said:
    I'll say it again: if Ben Reeves didn't have fitness issues he'd be comfortably a Championship player
    He was an all style no substance player that lacked style.
    And I stuck up for him while he was here. A poor man's Jonny Williams who inturn is a poor man's Elliot Lee.

    The Kirk/Reeves similarities don't end with their playing style, we chased both for ages only for them to offer nothing.
  • Kap10 said:
    The guy has just list his dad, moved from up north to London, I am willing to write this season off for him. He has a positive history in L1 so willing to give him time to get over life changing events 
    My father lost his own dad when he was 9. Life was a struggle in the depression.  At 23 (Kirks age) he was in the 2nd wave at D Day, Operation Market Garden, was stuck in the middle of the Battle of the Bulge . There were many others like him.

    They had no time to sulk or hide.


    .Kirk has a fine life style and a Range Rover. Give him 8 months and wipe out this season. For God's sake why ? He needs to buckle down and justify the owner's expense on him now, not next bloody year.
    Ahhh the old "he's got money, and a previous generation had it harder so he should stop complaining" argument.

    I shouldn't rise to it... but its... just... beautiful!!
    Not exactly...People should  not put forward his plight as a reason for failure.  But yes they had far more to put up with and in more dangerous situations. Wimping around wasn't really an option.  
    Consequently we weren't really allowed that option either.  It is a mind set today's generation don't understand.  I am sure Jackson will not expect this season to be written off by Kirk , or Kirk either for that matter.  
    But that's not what you said is it. You said because he's got a few quid and a nice car he should be able to just move on from the death of his father. I think that's a massively distasteful thing to say. Yes, he cannot use it an excuse forever, and actually, regardless of his situation I have been disappointed with him. But I do have sympathy for him and losing someone you are close to is bloody tough whether you're a lord or a peasant. 
  • Kap10 said:
    The guy has just list his dad, moved from up north to London, I am willing to write this season off for him. He has a positive history in L1 so willing to give him time to get over life changing events 
    My father lost his own dad when he was 9. Life was a struggle in the depression.  At 23 (Kirks age) he was in the 2nd wave at D Day, Operation Market Garden, was stuck in the middle of the Battle of the Bulge . There were many others like him.

    What was his goals to games ratio like while all this was going on?
  • Please stop suggesting Kirk fir the Lee role. He us far too lightweight to play centrally.

    I want him to do well for us but I just don't see what he brings, where he fits or what attributes he has that might make him a success 
    To be fair I don't disagree but I also think it's about the only position he could start in our current formation. Yes he is lightweight but does a CAM have to be particularly strong? In some games yes it will go against him but in games where we are dominating possession I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a decent game there. Ultimately though, I agree with your second statement. I think he'd work in a certain formation with the right LB behind him but at the moment I can't see us switching to anything like the system he'd need. 
  • Please stop suggesting Kirk fir the Lee role. He us far too lightweight to play centrally.

    I want him to do well for us but I just don't see what he brings, where he fits or what attributes he has that might make him a success 
    To be fair I don't disagree but I also think it's about the only position he could start in our current formation. Yes he is lightweight but does a CAM have to be particularly strong? In some games yes it will go against him but in games where we are dominating possession I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a decent game there. Ultimately though, I agree with your second statement. I think he'd work in a certain formation with the right LB behind him but at the moment I can't see us switching to anything like the system he'd need. 
    Watch the work and tackles Lee put in against Plymouth. Not just the pressing but the physicality and use of his body. Kirk can't do that. Agree he could work in some other formation but we can't afford to build te team around him.
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  • I bumped into a Crewe fan in the pub yesterday lunchtime. His take was that he'd let his early successes go to his head and he started believing he was better than he was. He made it sound like he wasn't applying himself properly before he'd left Crewe. I hope he can pull things around for his sake an ours. 
  • Please stop suggesting Kirk fir the Lee role. He us far too lightweight to play centrally.

    I want him to do well for us but I just don't see what he brings, where he fits or what attributes he has that might make him a success 
    To be fair I don't disagree but I also think it's about the only position he could start in our current formation. Yes he is lightweight but does a CAM have to be particularly strong? In some games yes it will go against him but in games where we are dominating possession I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a decent game there. Ultimately though, I agree with your second statement. I think he'd work in a certain formation with the right LB behind him but at the moment I can't see us switching to anything like the system he'd need. 
    Watch the work and tackles Lee put in against Plymouth. Not just the pressing but the physicality and use of his body. Kirk can't do that. Agree he could work in some other formation but we can't afford to build te team around him.
    Ah don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting Kirk will be anything like as effective as Lee. All I'm saying is that for me, it's the only possible position he could start a game in a 352. If not, where? He's not a wing-back nor a striker. Nor am I suggesting we change formation to fit him into the side, just stating that unless we change shape I can't see him getting the opportunity to impress. It's going to be very difficult for him to come on for the occasional cameo and play himself into form unfortunately. 
  • edited November 2021
    He's only 23 and spent his entire career prior to us playing and living in the one spot.

    Even without his personal troubles at the start of the season you'd expect him to need some time bedding in, some people adapt better than others. He might, he might not, but he's barely kicked a ball so won't write him off just yet.

    Going forward, think he'd be better off playing as more of a central AM.

    Wouldn't call him a panic buy either seeing as we chased him over 2 windows 😅
  • Have seen nothing in him to make me think he will be any good in a charlton shirt. Devoid of any confidence when he came on Tuesday. 

    Looks like a lot of wasted money. 
  • Bottom line is that he's just not that good.
    As he's signed a three year contract it looks like we are stuck with him for a while. 
    If JJ can bring the best out of him he may just improve if not we will have to cut our losses and try to move him on.
  • Too early to write him off but struggle to see him fitting our current formation. He also appears to lack the work rate and aggression needed for the way we’re playing.

    I think many of us (myself included) thought he’d take on and go past players more often. Either he’s lost confidence or that was never really his game. That doesn’t have to be an issue in his position, but it means he needs to threaten in other ways to make up for it by more regularly picking out good passes/crosses and scoring goals. He’s not shown any of that yet.
  • edited November 2021
    Lolz at people making blanket statements about a players ability when they fell into exactly the same trap at the beginning of the season as well with Clare/Dobson/DJ. 
    The difference is that when these 3 came back into the side they all looked like they understood what was expected of them and have done well.
    When Kirk has played recently in cups or league  he does not look as if he does. So either he is not being told or he cannot do it, yet. There does not seem to be any intensity in his play, he looks lightweight.
    Hopefully that can change, or he will have to go.
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