My understanding is that airline incident investigations and consequent safety standards are the best there are. They are used as a model for incident investigation in many other industries and services.
The line of accountability is quite impressive, every single screw and small component has to be signed off as fit for use and leaves a paper trail all the way from instillation to designer so if something does go wrong you can find out exactly where and who's door the blame lies at.
Am always fascinated by people's backgrounds on here at times
Mind me asking how you're aware of things sort of thing - Is it purely through interest or genuine work?
Work, I did when I first left uni, freelance work as an aerospace engineer ( which my degree is in) got contracted to look at blackbox data and correlate the data to speculate on areas of failure.
How many black box data analysts are there ?
Like I say I was working freelance so I'm not sure exactly how many and that depends, if it goes to the manufacturer or one of the investigative labs but it's usually a quite large team and then sometimes they outsource the data after they've come to the own conclusions to people such as myself to verify their results and see if we catch anything else, I had to sign NDAs though.
One of the cases which isn't mainstream and I can talk about because they didn't make me sign an NDA, they gave me data on a single stage jet turbine but there was data missing ( pretty sure deliberately because I worked out what it was afterwards anyway and the issue was a known fault on that engine under extreme stress, anyway ) I had to correlate the rest of the data on how the engine was performing, for example at different RPMs, its compressor and turbine effeciencies (which at a specific RPM dropped to - 5% so you can see the problem here) so then I had to look at the other data at that specific RPM all across the heat cycle, which led to the problem being the fuel flow valve failing which flooded the compressor, choking the engine to death.
Just to make everybody feel all the bit safer, it wasnt for a commercial jet, it was for an BAE testbed prototype which they were stress testing.
Would such a rapid descent knock out the people on board?
I remember watching a program on sky one called the Day Britain Stood still. Probably about 15 years ago now. The premise was that a couple of accidents at certain points on the M25 would result in Britain being completely choked. At the end it resulted in air traffic controllers being unable to be relieved and therefore suffering from fatigue which resulted in a mid air collision at 15000 foot over Gatwick. Apparently in a mid air collision one plane usually disintegrates and the other falls out of the sky with a plane size hole in it. It said that at 15000 feet you'd still be conscious when you hit the ground.
I realise that there are many things that can cause an air accident but I am going to stick my neck out and say that, if the details that we have heard thus far are true, then ‘at this moment in time’ it’s looking like a deliberate action by an individual.
All Indonesian planes were banned from Europe for quite a few years due to their poor safety records
To expand upon this in the past its been found that their maintenance staff didnt inspect their craft to the standard expected in the EU, one of the other reasons they were banned
My understanding is that airline incident investigations and consequent safety standards are the best there are. They are used as a model for incident investigation in many other industries and services.
The line of accountability is quite impressive, every single screw and small component has to be signed off as fit for use and leaves a paper trail all the way from instillation to designer so if something does go wrong you can find out exactly where and who's door the blame lies at.
Am always fascinated by people's backgrounds on here at times
Mind me asking how you're aware of things sort of thing - Is it purely through interest or genuine work?
Work, I did when I first left uni, freelance work as an aerospace engineer ( which my degree is in) got contracted to look at blackbox data and correlate the data to speculate on areas of failure.
How many black box data analysts are there ?
What does it matter what colour the analyst is? Why does everything have to become a race issue these days?
For anyone that's interested in this sort of thing, I can recommend Matt Parker's book Humble Pi. It's about maths errors in general, but there's some interesting stories about planes in there such as the Gimli Glider which ran out of fuel as a result of erroneous fuel calculations caused by a mix up between imperial and metric units or the pilot of a BA flight from Brum to Malaga sucked out of the window (he survived), because a wrong, but very similar, bolt was used to fit a windscreen.
Would such a rapid descent knock out the people on board?
Quite possibly - G forces most likely too much to withstand. Also at that speed it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the plane could have broken apart in mid-air.
What the hell do they do in Indonesia? Apparently it's the 7th crash killing 50 or more people in the last 15 years!
Barely a year passes without some kind of plane crash/incident there.
I can tell you what they do. They ignore safety procedures. They don't believe in worrying about it too much. I lived there for a year and took many internal flights. I'm surprised that there have only been 7 crashes in 15 years. I remember one particular flight during which I was constantly looking around me wondering where the open door or window was. Of course you don't hear about their road accidents, sinking boats, exploding ovens etc. I had a fun 15 months though.
Would such a rapid descent knock out the people on board?
I remember watching a program on sky one called the Day Britain Stood still. Probably about 15 years ago now. The premise was that a couple of accidents at certain points on the M25 would result in Britain being completely choked. At the end it resulted in air traffic controllers being unable to be relieved and therefore suffering from fatigue which resulted in a mid air collision at 15000 foot over Gatwick. Apparently in a mid air collision one plane usually disintegrates and the other falls out of the sky with a plane size hole in it. It said that at 15000 feet you'd still be conscious when you hit the ground.
Happy new year
Actually I've done a bit of research into this as I have a scene in my novel that required it. You would be conscious when you hit the ground but you wouldn't feel anything. This is because of the time it takes for the feeling of impact to reach the brain. An impact which would result in certain immediate death cannot be felt.
What the hell do they do in Indonesia? Apparently it's the 7th crash killing 50 or more people in the last 15 years!
Barely a year passes without some kind of plane crash/incident there.
I can tell you what they do. They ignore safety procedures. They don't believe in worrying about it too much. I lived there for a year and took many internal flights. I'm surprised that there have only been 7 crashes in 15 years. I remember one particular flight during which I was constantly looking around me wondering where the open door or window was. Of course you don't hear about their road accidents, sinking boats, exploding ovens etc. I had a fun 15 months though.
That's 7 crashes in 15 years in which 50 or more people have died.
Would such a rapid descent knock out the people on board?
I remember watching a program on sky one called the Day Britain Stood still. Probably about 15 years ago now. The premise was that a couple of accidents at certain points on the M25 would result in Britain being completely choked. At the end it resulted in air traffic controllers being unable to be relieved and therefore suffering from fatigue which resulted in a mid air collision at 15000 foot over Gatwick. Apparently in a mid air collision one plane usually disintegrates and the other falls out of the sky with a plane size hole in it. It said that at 15000 feet you'd still be conscious when you hit the ground.
Happy new year
Actually I've done a bit of research into this as I have a scene in my novel that required it. You would be conscious when you hit the ground but you wouldn't feel anything. This is because of the time it takes for the feeling of impact to reach the brain. An impact which would result in certain immediate death cannot be felt.
Would such a rapid descent knock out the people on board?
I remember watching a program on sky one called the Day Britain Stood still. Probably about 15 years ago now. The premise was that a couple of accidents at certain points on the M25 would result in Britain being completely choked. At the end it resulted in air traffic controllers being unable to be relieved and therefore suffering from fatigue which resulted in a mid air collision at 15000 foot over Gatwick. Apparently in a mid air collision one plane usually disintegrates and the other falls out of the sky with a plane size hole in it. It said that at 15000 feet you'd still be conscious when you hit the ground.
Happy new year
Actually I've done a bit of research into this as I have a scene in my novel that required it. You would be conscious when you hit the ground but you wouldn't feel anything. This is because of the time it takes for the feeling of impact to reach the brain. An impact which would result in certain immediate death cannot be felt.
But nobody can really know that for sure.
This is true but let's not forget that a crew member was found alive in Lockerbie by a farmer's wife but unfortunately died before help could get there,the following inquiry stated the cockpit crew most probably were still alive until impact. That aircraft fell from a height above 30,000ft.
What the hell do they do in Indonesia? Apparently it's the 7th crash killing 50 or more people in the last 15 years!
Barely a year passes without some kind of plane crash/incident there.
I can tell you what they do. They ignore safety procedures. They don't believe in worrying about it too much. I lived there for a year and took many internal flights. I'm surprised that there have only been 7 crashes in 15 years. I remember one particular flight during which I was constantly looking around me wondering where the open door or window was. Of course you don't hear about their road accidents, sinking boats, exploding ovens etc. I had a fun 15 months though.
Probably going to be a lot more countries out there who follow the same pattern
What the hell do they do in Indonesia? Apparently it's the 7th crash killing 50 or more people in the last 15 years!
Barely a year passes without some kind of plane crash/incident there.
I can tell you what they do. They ignore safety procedures. They don't believe in worrying about it too much. I lived there for a year and took many internal flights. I'm surprised that there have only been 7 crashes in 15 years. I remember one particular flight during which I was constantly looking around me wondering where the open door or window was. Of course you don't hear about their road accidents, sinking boats, exploding ovens etc. I had a fun 15 months though.
That's 7 crashes in 15 years in which 50 or more people have died.
Slightly off topic, but an interesting tale - in the early 1980’s my mum had a Boeing 757 named after - her husband was finance director of Air Europe - the airline was part of Intl Leisure Group, which also owned Intasun and Club 18-30 - they flew to the Boeing factory to pick up the plane, and she poured champagne over the nose - its registration was G-BPGW and it was called Anne Marie - they were presented with silver ignition keys by Boeing and she started the engines - she gave me one of the keys for my 50th birthday last year - key and the actual plane below - it’s not flying anymore - scrapped a few years ago
Having flown out of Jakarta about 40 times, I'm quite choosey about which airline I use in Indonesia - there are several small airlines and ones that pop up and disappear (no pun intended). I am fairly sure they are only do domestic flights, which has thankfully limited my opportunities to use Sriwijaya as I've only taken domestic flights a handful of times in Indonesia. Indonesia has got a pretty bad track record, but I wouldn't use them except as a last resort.
I remember flying out of Jakarta at roughly the same time as a departure from Yogyakarta crashed. My mother had kittens thought Jarkarta and Yogyakarta were the same place; my wife knew I was flying out of Jakarta.
Comments
One of the cases which isn't mainstream and I can talk about because they didn't make me sign an NDA, they gave me data on a single stage jet turbine but there was data missing ( pretty sure deliberately because I worked out what it was afterwards anyway and the issue was a known fault on that engine under extreme stress, anyway ) I had to correlate the rest of the data on how the engine was performing, for example at different RPMs, its compressor and turbine effeciencies (which at a specific RPM dropped to - 5% so you can see the problem here) so then I had to look at the other data at that specific RPM all across the heat cycle, which led to the problem being the fuel flow valve failing which flooded the compressor, choking the engine to death.
Just to make everybody feel all the bit safer, it wasnt for a commercial jet, it was for an BAE testbed prototype which they were stress testing.
Happy new year
.It would take Watson 17 months
Barely a year passes without some kind of plane crash/incident there.
Already come comments their echoing your point, @Chris_from_Sidcup
Of course you don't hear about their road accidents, sinking boats, exploding ovens etc.
I had a fun 15 months though.
You would be conscious when you hit the ground but you wouldn't feel anything. This is because of the time it takes for the feeling of impact to reach the brain. An impact which would result in certain immediate death cannot be felt.
There have been many other crashes.
I remember flying out of Jakarta at roughly the same time as a departure from Yogyakarta crashed. My mother had kittens thought Jarkarta and Yogyakarta were the same place; my wife knew I was flying out of Jakarta.