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Has Bowyer lost it?

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  • Masterbrew
    Masterbrew Posts: 263
    I have heard from someone with contacts that TS has said that there will be a clear-out in the summer and, consequently, many of the players are no longer interested in playing for Charlton knowing that they will be out at the end of the season. That leaves us with the need for 10 points with a disinterested squad...
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,728
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    So what's the concensus?

    Is the issue:

    A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block

    Or 

    B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
    C The players could not give a s***, Bowyer does.

    Out them and replace in the summer and 'do a Powell' next season.
    Lee Bowyer Athletic
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Scoham said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Scoham said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Scoham said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    So what's the concensus?

    Is the issue:

    A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block

    Or 

    B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
    Both. THiS iS A toP TWo SqUAd isn't true either.
     I agree. But it should have been a top 6 side at least throughout the season, with a really brilliant manager it could have overachieved to top 2.
    I think we needed Doughty, Inniss and Famewo to stay fit to overachieve. No manager gets us up there with Oshilaja and Pearce playing regularly at CB.
    To be fair a half decent one might have signed a center half in January?

    Even if it ment sending Famewo back, he isn't THAT good that 2 games in 8 weeks means he was worth keeping. 
    Famewo's return has shown our problems defensively can't be sold just by having a better CB in the team.
    Exactly the point I have been making since November, and constantly got told

    "but the center halves are both injured"

    But it is also a fact if you only have 2 center halves that are Oshilaja and Pearce it's reckless managment not to correct it at the first opportunity.  Especially as we have now played about 12 games since the window opened and Inniss and Famewo have played 2 between them.  Inniss must also be at least a month (7 games) away from starting? 
  • AndyHuntUpFront
    AndyHuntUpFront Posts: 101
    edited February 2021
    cafc_se7 said:
    Lapslie clearly wasn’t good enough though! I’m not sure Morgan is either! 
    I honestly don’t get that comment. Not good enough for our current team? Please don’t make me laugh. Certainly better than Watson and Pratley. Maybe not good enough for top 2 in the league granted, but way better than what we have. 
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,444
    Masterbrew said:
    I have heard from someone with contacts that TS has said that there will be a clear-out in the summer and, consequently, many of the players are no longer interested in playing for Charlton knowing that they will be out at the end of the season. That leaves us with the need for 10 points with a disinterested squad...
    Presumably then Lee keeps selecting the ones who are not interested...
  • norwayaddick
    norwayaddick Posts: 400
    Cafc43v3r said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Bolderhumphreyreid said:
    https://twitter.com/richcawleyslp/status/1365715962398445569?s=21

    Who is this aimed at?

    My guess is Jaiyesimi. He seems an easy target for Lee to bully.

    He should be saying it to Watson and Pratley but there’s no way he will.

    Be a man Lee, take the blame.

    Edit: apologies I don’t know how to show the body of the tweet.
    Oshilaja maybe?
    Shinnie
    Jaiyesimi lost the ball at the halfway line leading to 0-2. 
    LB blamed the ref for the penalties.
    If Jaiyesimi didnt backtrack like hell, he is the one having a Tuesday off...?
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Scoham said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Scoham said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Scoham said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    So what's the concensus?

    Is the issue:

    A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block

    Or 

    B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
    Both. THiS iS A toP TWo SqUAd isn't true either.
     I agree. But it should have been a top 6 side at least throughout the season, with a really brilliant manager it could have overachieved to top 2.
    I think we needed Doughty, Inniss and Famewo to stay fit to overachieve. No manager gets us up there with Oshilaja and Pearce playing regularly at CB.
    To be fair a half decent one might have signed a center half in January?

    Even if it ment sending Famewo back, he isn't THAT good that 2 games in 8 weeks means he was worth keeping. 
    Famewo's return has shown our problems defensively can't be sold just by having a better CB in the team.
    Exactly the point I have been making since November, and constantly got told

    "but the center halves are both injured"

    But it is also a fact if you only have 2 center halves that are Oshilaja and Pearce it's reckless managment not to correct it at the first opportunity.  Especially as we have now played about 12 games since the window opened and Inniss and Famewo have played 2 between them.  Inniss must also be at least a month (7 games) away from starting? 
    How do we know they didn't try but just didn't rate any of the options out there? From what Bowyer had said that was the case.

    We needed a CB that:
    - Was affordable under the wage cap
    - Proven/experienced enough that we could be fairly certain they'd be better than Oshilaja and Pearce
    - Fit and ready to come straight in to the team
    - Available to sign
    - Understood they may be dropped once Inniss and Famewo were fit (which at the time we were hoping would be earlier than it actually turned out)

    It's a bit different than signing a winger or striker who you can give time off the bench and rotate a bit more.
  • J BLOCK
    J BLOCK Posts: 8,310
    AndyHuntUpFront said:
    cafc_se7 said:
    Lapslie clearly wasn’t good enough though! I’m not sure Morgan is either! 
    I honestly don’t get that comment. Not good enough for our current team? Please don’t make me laugh. Certainly better than Watson and Pratley. Maybe not good enough for top 2 in the league granted, but way better than what we have. 
    Well TS is wasting his own money and everyone’s time if he peruses with bowyer.

    When fans go back and if this is still being served up, TS will know first hand what the majority want done.
  • cafcsinger
    cafcsinger Posts: 5,548
    Bolderhumphreyreid said:
    Rothko said:
    I’ve read some hyperbolic stuff on here, but ‘killing the club’ is about the worst tonight.


    Let fans let off steam on a fans forum. Stop trying to pick holes in their wording.

    You know what they mean.
    Exactly
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  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,881
    AndyG said:
    The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB 
    Didn’t bowyer say that lapslie was moved on because if the cap?
  • AndyHuntUpFront
    AndyHuntUpFront Posts: 101
    Scoham said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Scoham said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Scoham said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Scoham said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    So what's the concensus?

    Is the issue:

    A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block

    Or 

    B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
    Both. THiS iS A toP TWo SqUAd isn't true either.
     I agree. But it should have been a top 6 side at least throughout the season, with a really brilliant manager it could have overachieved to top 2.
    I think we needed Doughty, Inniss and Famewo to stay fit to overachieve. No manager gets us up there with Oshilaja and Pearce playing regularly at CB.
    To be fair a half decent one might have signed a center half in January?

    Even if it ment sending Famewo back, he isn't THAT good that 2 games in 8 weeks means he was worth keeping. 
    Famewo's return has shown our problems defensively can't be sold just by having a better CB in the team.
    Exactly the point I have been making since November, and constantly got told

    "but the center halves are both injured"

    But it is also a fact if you only have 2 center halves that are Oshilaja and Pearce it's reckless managment not to correct it at the first opportunity.  Especially as we have now played about 12 games since the window opened and Inniss and Famewo have played 2 between them.  Inniss must also be at least a month (7 games) away from starting? 
    How do we know they didn't try but just didn't rate any of the options out there? From what Bowyer had said that was the case.

    We needed a CB that:
    - Was affordable under the wage cap
    - Proven/experienced enough that we could be fairly certain they'd be better than Oshilaja and Pearce
    - Fit and ready to come straight in to the team
    - Available to sign
    - Understood they may be dropped once Inniss and Famewo were fit (which at the time we were hoping would be earlier than it actually turned out)

    It's a bit different than signing a winger or striker who you can give time off the bench and rotate a bit more.
    Point is that missing a centre half was not the biggest issue.  Blind loyalty to two slow and error phone defensive midfielders and not replacing them with someone that could actually protect the centre halves is the issue. We may have even been able to stumble through with Pearce if there was some protection in front!
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,444
    AndyG said:
    The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB 
    LB has the same limited approach that Keane had as a manager and it won't work with a lot of players. You have to manage different personality types with a flexible approach and not assume everyone has your mindset.
  • paulfox
    paulfox Posts: 2,356
    AndyG said:
    The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB 
    Particularly when pratley gets himself sent off like he did today. Was almost like he fancied an early bath. To do what he did with his experience was as bad, probably worse than the pulling out of tackles incidents.
  • Alwaysneil
    Alwaysneil Posts: 13,806
    Pratley unfortunately, more games than not, looks like he is more likely to leave the pitch early through a combinations of cards than leave everything on the pitch to the final whistle.

    God knows god loves a trier but while he had a good season last season, he’s better against more technical teams. 
  • paulfox
    paulfox Posts: 2,356
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    AndyG said:
    The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB 
    LB has the same limited approach that Keane had as a manager and it won't work with a lot of players. You have to manage different personality types with a flexible approach and not assume everyone has your mindset.
    Exactly, and you still see that abrasive attitude and rubbing people up the wrong way when he’s on sky sports. Peas in a pod I’d say.
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,728
    AndyG said:
    The comment LB made today about Pratley leaving everything on the pitch and he only wants players that will fight for the club goes to show that he puts commitment above talent but that does make a bit of a mockery of getting shot of Lapslie you couldn't knock his effort. The loyalty to pratley and Watson has gone to far imo if any other player did what pratley did today they would be publicly lambasted by LB 
    If Morgan did what Pratley did today, I reckon Bowyer would have chinned him as he walked off the pitch. The favouritism is staggering.
  • MattF
    MattF Posts: 3,797
    Even stranger is he didn't shy away from criticising Pratley last time he was stupidly sent off not so long ago, so what's changed?
    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/lee-bowyer-has-say-after-darren-pratley-is-sent-off-during-charltons-loss-at-hull/
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    AndyHuntUpFront said:
    Scoham said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Scoham said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Scoham said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Scoham said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    So what's the concensus?

    Is the issue:

    A - Bowyer has lost the dressing room as suggested by a player to J Block

    Or 

    B - ThE PlAyErS ArEn'T gOoD eNoUgH.
    Both. THiS iS A toP TWo SqUAd isn't true either.
     I agree. But it should have been a top 6 side at least throughout the season, with a really brilliant manager it could have overachieved to top 2.
    I think we needed Doughty, Inniss and Famewo to stay fit to overachieve. No manager gets us up there with Oshilaja and Pearce playing regularly at CB.
    To be fair a half decent one might have signed a center half in January?

    Even if it ment sending Famewo back, he isn't THAT good that 2 games in 8 weeks means he was worth keeping. 
    Famewo's return has shown our problems defensively can't be sold just by having a better CB in the team.
    Exactly the point I have been making since November, and constantly got told

    "but the center halves are both injured"

    But it is also a fact if you only have 2 center halves that are Oshilaja and Pearce it's reckless managment not to correct it at the first opportunity.  Especially as we have now played about 12 games since the window opened and Inniss and Famewo have played 2 between them.  Inniss must also be at least a month (7 games) away from starting? 
    How do we know they didn't try but just didn't rate any of the options out there? From what Bowyer had said that was the case.

    We needed a CB that:
    - Was affordable under the wage cap
    - Proven/experienced enough that we could be fairly certain they'd be better than Oshilaja and Pearce
    - Fit and ready to come straight in to the team
    - Available to sign
    - Understood they may be dropped once Inniss and Famewo were fit (which at the time we were hoping would be earlier than it actually turned out)

    It's a bit different than signing a winger or striker who you can give time off the bench and rotate a bit more.
    Point is that missing a centre half was not the biggest issue.  Blind loyalty to two slow and error phone defensive midfielders and not replacing them with someone that could actually protect the centre halves is the issue. We may have even been able to stumble through with Pearce if there was some protection in front!
    Agree on Bowyer having blind loyalty to them.

    Don't agree they didn't try to improve on them - Ofoborh was a young DM we tried to bring in but he signed a pre-contract with Rangers and joined Wycombe on loan in the Championship.

    I'm sure there are others we don't know about.

    The mistake was signing Watson in the first place. Just said on the Watson thread we have too many slow CMs who lack energy. The balance isn't right, some of them would look decent if they had the right type of players around them.

    January under a salary cap isn't a great time to be needing to sign quality players to improve the spine of your team. You can get the odd one or two like Stockley and Millar, but it's unlikely you'll bring in 4/5 who can make an immediate impact like they have.

    Whoever is for the next few games should take a look in our u23s. Maybe there's a player there like Doughty who just needs a chance. They don't need to be the next Gomez or Shelvey to offer something in this side.
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,145
    I mean it’s fucking obvious

    Bowyer is a trade gone wrong , yes it was onside and a good winner at one point , being short Bitcoin at 15k was brilliant when it was 5k but times and prices change .

    Some people always get married to bad trades and find them hard to let go , trying to justify in their fucked up heads that it will come right and the price (good times)will come back
    and every slight move in that direction makes them believe whatever fuckedupness is going through their heads that they are right .
    well Bitcoin is 46k and doesn’t look like getting below 15k again , so even if it gets to 40k it’s still a wank trade .
    The hardest thing is taking your losses cos it means you admit your wrong and you can see that on here , many hanging on in the hope that their shit trade will come good .
    It’s not happening 
    he has to go , get out of that trade and start afresh .
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  • AndyHuntUpFront
    AndyHuntUpFront Posts: 101
    edited February 2021
    Agree. Hopefully someone is good enough to step up.

    However finding a defensive midfielder with legs is a lot easier than finding a 20 goal striker. Long legged Plymouth DCM and even the Gills CM that scored against us are much better than what we’ve got. So even if there was not a player to take the championship by storm I am sure that we could have improved!
  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,352
    Lost it?

    He's found A BIG BAG OF SHITE...
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,825
    edited February 2021
    The situation is doing the next incumbent a massive favour. There will be a pick up and they’ll get credit and others will highlight how much Bowyer was holding us back. 

    Sometimes change and fresh starts are needed, even more so in football. It feels like now is in all parties best interests.

    Karl Robinson is in no way a bad football manager, but this feels very much like the time when it was in everyone’s best interests for him to move on. 
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,764
    MattF said:
    Even stranger is he didn't shy away from criticising Pratley last time he was stupidly sent off not so long ago, so what's changed?
    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/lee-bowyer-has-say-after-darren-pratley-is-sent-off-during-charltons-loss-at-hull/
    Totally forgot about that one - kind of throws a spanner into the works if you think Bowyer won't criticise his favourites.
  • NorthheathAddick
    NorthheathAddick Posts: 4,017

    I no people have opinions but seriously the Bowyer in brigade talking about building his team for next season....These players talk amongst themselves and also with mates from other teams,all are probably aware of what’s going on with Bowyer,good & bad...but what player would really want to play for him,if he throws you under the bus then airs all that dirty washing out to the media,it’s almost bullying,why would anyone want that...as for the youngsters,the very same thing,one cock up & you become used abused & jettisoned out of team or at worst moved on,it’s no good for moral or team spirit,so if Lee is still in the hot seat next season who & what will he expect,because if as said it’s his training methods,his rudeness & irresponsible outbursts to his players then no wonder some players were so nearly through the door,yet went elsewhere & some seem quite happy to leave aswell...the caliber of players we need are gonna want respect back & I don’t think Lee has that in him if they don’t live up to his standards,there seems to be no give & take,so for that reason alone,I don’t think its gonna get any better with Bowyer in charge unfortunately,it’s time for change 

  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    AndyHuntUpFront said:
    Agree. Hopefully someone is good enough to step up.

    However finding a defensive midfielder with legs is a lot easier than finding a 20 goal striker. Long legged Plymouth DCM and even the Gills CM that scored against us are much better than what we’ve got. So even if there was not a player to take the championship by storm I am sure that we could have improved!
    Doesn’t work if their clubs want big money for them though. The Rochdale winger looked good against us and then he ended up signing for Man City. Even if they’re available for us you’re not going to pay £1m+ for a player, give him a 3 or 4 year contract then convince him him to sign on only £2-3k due to the salary cap. They could be earning more than that already and get a better deal in the summer when clubs have more room in their budget (and no cap as it turns out).
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,846
    On Quest they mentioned the pressure on Bowyer, so the wider football world is well aware that we're underperforming

    Ally Maxwell noted the defensive record at home (9 games conceding 2 a game) but also thought Bowyer's demeanour and post match interviews over the last few months weren't helping getting the players in the right frame of mind
  • AndyHuntUpFront
    AndyHuntUpFront Posts: 101
    But net result is that this has wasted this season. We went out on a limb to buy a right mid. Lost out on the Gills man and then pushed the boat out for DJ. So money was there. We just focused on the wrong priority! 
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    AndyHuntUpFront said:
    But net result is that this has wasted this season. We went out on a limb to buy a right mid. Lost out on the Gills man and then pushed the boat out for DJ. So money was there. We just focused on the wrong priority! 
    I don’t think we can be certain about the priorities, it’s a window in which you can’t always get what you want and sometimes late on in the window you sign other players because you need the numbers. I think Matt Smith is an example of that. DJ not so much as we needed another winger, we only have two.
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