Question for the sparkies: outdoor stuff

JohnBoyUK

A question for the sparkies if I may.

These are our main outdoor sockets at the back of our house.

One right, two bog standard garden RCDs.
Grey box in the middle provides power to a small garden water pump and some small garden lights.
Black one of the left is full armoured, goes to the back of my garden to power my man cave, whichg has got tv, fridge/freezer and a wall mounted air con unit.

Would we be able to add another box to deal with a 32a connection?
Or do we have to wire a separate connection back through to the main circuit board?  hope that makes sense.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

smiffyboy

Are they all fed from the same MCB in the fuseboard?

i_b_b_o_r_g

Is that 5G?

JohnBoyUK

smiffyboy said:

Are they all fed from the same MCB in the fuseboard?

Good question.  I knew you was going to ask me that!!! (I really didnt!!! facepalm!!!)



Does that help?
No.5 says out building on it!

smiffyboy

Hi John,

sorry currently working from home and got side tracked, i would say that they are all supplied off the one MCB.

You will need to run a new 6mm supply from the DB to the new 32a socket.

Dave Rudd

@JohnBoyUK … difficult to see exactly from the picture, but it looks like your Outbuilding MCB is rated at 16amps.  Bearing in mind that you already have the man cave hooked up to that (fridge freezer, air con unit and heaven knows what else), it may not be too clever to put much more on that circuit.

When you say "Would we be able to add another box to deal with a 32a connection?", what exactly do you have in mind?

It sounds like you are planning to hook up something fairly hefty.  Floodlights for that evening kickabout maybe?  Outdoor stage?

Already it feels to me like you need another circuit.

JohnBoyUK

Cheers chaps, I suspected it would need another circuit!

Dave Rudd said:

@JohnBoyUK … difficult to see exactly from the picture, but it looks like your Outbuilding MCB is rated at 16amps.  Bearing in mind that you already have the man cave hooked up to that (fridge freezer, air con unit and heaven knows what else), it may not be too clever to put much more on that circuit.

When you say "Would we be able to add another box to deal with a 32a connection?", what exactly do you have in mind?

It sounds like you are planning to hook up something fairly hefty.  Floodlights for that evening kickabout maybe?  Outdoor stage?

Already it feels to me like you need another circuit.

Wife wants a hot tub / pool.  Had a look at some and seen they are 13a but some are much heftier and on a 32a system.  Only looking/thinking about it at this stage...investigating what other work would need to be done first.

Covered End

If I may hijack John's thread as he appears to have been answered.

A few weeks ago I was planning on having a new kitchen (obviously on hold now).

I have a consumer unit/whatever they are called that looks like John's, which was fitted in the early 90's.
I'm not aware that the house (1926) has ever been rewired.

The kitchen would need more electrical power than at present, a dishwasher, an electric oven, more plug points and  under cabinet lights.

The builder said he'd get an electrician round but said we would almost certainly need a new ring main that could cost up to £2K. I'm clueless in such matters and whilst I understand the concept, does a new ring main costing £2K sound possible/reasonable ?

Dave Rudd

Covered End said:

The builder said he'd get an electrician round but said we would almost certainly need a new ring main that could cost up to £2K. I'm clueless in such matters and whilst I understand the concept, does a new ring main costing £2K sound possible/reasonable ?

Yes ... what you are up against is the fact that the actual wires need to be able to handle the load.  Think of it like plumbing ... if you want a fast flow or supply to several outlets, the pipes need to be wide enough.  Narrow pipes limit the flow.  It's the same with electrical wires.  The difference is that wires can potentially overheat if the load is too great, and you then have a fire risk.

The cost of a new ring main is really mostly about the labour involved.  Materials are relatively inexpensive compared to labour costs.  Your current wiring may be buried in walls, under floorboards etc.  Their replacement is what you will be paying for ... and that may be tricky, although some houses will be easier than others.

"Up to £2k" covers a lot of scenarios.  A couple of days work (if you are lucky) and it will be cheaper than that.  But one way to think about it … once it's done it will probably outlive you ... and what price safety?

Get a couple of actual quotes from real professionals, ideally someone who has been recommended. The quotes won't differ too much, and then you can be sure that you are getting a good job at a fair price.

Greenie Junior

Covered End said:

If I may hijack John's thread as he appears to have been answered.

A few weeks ago I was planning on having a new kitchen (obviously on hold now).

I have a consumer unit/whatever they are called that looks like John's, which was fitted in the early 90's.
I'm not aware that the house (1926) has ever been rewired.

The kitchen would need more electrical power than at present, a dishwasher, an electric oven, more plug points and  under cabinet lights.

The builder said he'd get an electrician round but said we would almost certainly need a new ring main that could cost up to £2K. I'm clueless in such matters and whilst I understand the concept, does a new ring main costing £2K sound possible/reasonable ?

Doesn’t sound right for just a ring main and a small sub board but it depends how many points you’re having (ie sockets etc) and the variables involved in getting cables to the necessary points

Greenie Junior

JohnBoyUK said:

Cheers chaps, I suspected it would need another circuit!

Dave Rudd said:

@JohnBoyUK … difficult to see exactly from the picture, but it looks like your Outbuilding MCB is rated at 16amps.  Bearing in mind that you already have the man cave hooked up to that (fridge freezer, air con unit and heaven knows what else), it may not be too clever to put much more on that circuit.

When you say "Would we be able to add another box to deal with a 32a connection?", what exactly do you have in mind?

It sounds like you are planning to hook up something fairly hefty.  Floodlights for that evening kickabout maybe?  Outdoor stage?

Already it feels to me like you need another circuit.

Wife wants a hot tub / pool.  Had a look at some and seen they are 13a but some are much heftier and on a 32a system.  Only looking/thinking about it at this stage...investigating what other work would need to be done first.

If you’re having a hot tub, the hot tub company generally won’t install it unless there’s a dedicated 6mm supply with a rotary isolator nearby installed and certified by a spark. 

eaststandmike

Greenie Junior said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Cheers chaps, I suspected it would need another circuit!

Dave Rudd said:

@JohnBoyUK … difficult to see exactly from the picture, but it looks like your Outbuilding MCB is rated at 16amps.  Bearing in mind that you already have the man cave hooked up to that (fridge freezer, air con unit and heaven knows what else), it may not be too clever to put much more on that circuit.

When you say "Would we be able to add another box to deal with a 32a connection?", what exactly do you have in mind?

It sounds like you are planning to hook up something fairly hefty.  Floodlights for that evening kickabout maybe?  Outdoor stage?

Already it feels to me like you need another circuit.

Wife wants a hot tub / pool.  Had a look at some and seen they are 13a but some are much heftier and on a 32a system.  Only looking/thinking about it at this stage...investigating what other work would need to be done first.

If you’re having a hot tub, the hot tub company generally won’t install it unless there’s a dedicated 6mm supply with a rotary isolator nearby installed and certified by a spark. 

Greenie is bang on the money as we have just bought a hot tub and it was installed a month ago. I mounted the rotary isolator under my fuse board and then ran the armoured in to it. The hot tub team made off the other end of the armoured and terminated it into the tub. They did a full trip test to check the rcd before certifying it and switching it on so you can't take any short cuts 

JohnBoyUK

eaststandmike said:

Greenie Junior said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Cheers chaps, I suspected it would need another circuit!

Dave Rudd said:

@JohnBoyUK … difficult to see exactly from the picture, but it looks like your Outbuilding MCB is rated at 16amps.  Bearing in mind that you already have the man cave hooked up to that (fridge freezer, air con unit and heaven knows what else), it may not be too clever to put much more on that circuit.

When you say "Would we be able to add another box to deal with a 32a connection?", what exactly do you have in mind?

It sounds like you are planning to hook up something fairly hefty.  Floodlights for that evening kickabout maybe?  Outdoor stage?

Already it feels to me like you need another circuit.

Wife wants a hot tub / pool.  Had a look at some and seen they are 13a but some are much heftier and on a 32a system.  Only looking/thinking about it at this stage...investigating what other work would need to be done first.

If you’re having a hot tub, the hot tub company generally won’t install it unless there’s a dedicated 6mm supply with a rotary isolator nearby installed and certified by a spark. 

Greenie is bang on the money as we have just bought a hot tub and it was installed a month ago. I mounted the rotary isolator under my fuse board and then ran the armoured in to it. The hot tub team made off the other end of the armoured and terminated it into the tub. They did a full trip test to check the rcd before certifying it and switching it on so you can't take any short cuts 

presumably that was for a 32amp tub?
if it was a 13amp 'plug and play' one, we wouldnt need that?!

LargeAddick

JohnBoyUK said:

eaststandmike said:

Greenie Junior said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Cheers chaps, I suspected it would need another circuit!

Dave Rudd said:

@JohnBoyUK … difficult to see exactly from the picture, but it looks like your Outbuilding MCB is rated at 16amps.  Bearing in mind that you already have the man cave hooked up to that (fridge freezer, air con unit and heaven knows what else), it may not be too clever to put much more on that circuit.

When you say "Would we be able to add another box to deal with a 32a connection?", what exactly do you have in mind?

It sounds like you are planning to hook up something fairly hefty.  Floodlights for that evening kickabout maybe?  Outdoor stage?

Already it feels to me like you need another circuit.

Wife wants a hot tub / pool.  Had a look at some and seen they are 13a but some are much heftier and on a 32a system.  Only looking/thinking about it at this stage...investigating what other work would need to be done first.

If you’re having a hot tub, the hot tub company generally won’t install it unless there’s a dedicated 6mm supply with a rotary isolator nearby installed and certified by a spark. 

Greenie is bang on the money as we have just bought a hot tub and it was installed a month ago. I mounted the rotary isolator under my fuse board and then ran the armoured in to it. The hot tub team made off the other end of the armoured and terminated it into the tub. They did a full trip test to check the rcd before certifying it and switching it on so you can't take any short cuts 

presumably that was for a 32amp tub?
if it was a 13amp 'plug and play' one, we wouldnt need that?!

If you are going to get a hot tub get a decent one, not a plug and play one, as if not you will regret it in the long run. As they say you get what you pay for.

Elthamaddick

we got a hot tub from the place at Ruxley Garden centre, very helpful and some great choices. One thing I would say with regards to buying a hot tub is....haggle....we ended up getting ours bought, delivered and installed for less than half the advertised price.

B&Q at the moment have a fantastic deal on a nice one

JohnBoyUK

Thanks guys.  Very useful.

Given our rear extension has concrete floor with underfloor heating embedded in it, I can see no way we can get a new supply going through unless we come out another way.  We've got a side extension too so think only way would be out to front and then run it around the side, which would mean Amtico flooring being ripped up.  Sigh.  More hassle than its worth.

Greenie Junior

JohnBoyUK said:

eaststandmike said:

Greenie Junior said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Cheers chaps, I suspected it would need another circuit!

Dave Rudd said:

@JohnBoyUK … difficult to see exactly from the picture, but it looks like your Outbuilding MCB is rated at 16amps.  Bearing in mind that you already have the man cave hooked up to that (fridge freezer, air con unit and heaven knows what else), it may not be too clever to put much more on that circuit.

When you say "Would we be able to add another box to deal with a 32a connection?", what exactly do you have in mind?

It sounds like you are planning to hook up something fairly hefty.  Floodlights for that evening kickabout maybe?  Outdoor stage?

Already it feels to me like you need another circuit.

Wife wants a hot tub / pool.  Had a look at some and seen they are 13a but some are much heftier and on a 32a system.  Only looking/thinking about it at this stage...investigating what other work would need to be done first.

If you’re having a hot tub, the hot tub company generally won’t install it unless there’s a dedicated 6mm supply with a rotary isolator nearby installed and certified by a spark. 

Greenie is bang on the money as we have just bought a hot tub and it was installed a month ago. I mounted the rotary isolator under my fuse board and then ran the armoured in to it. The hot tub team made off the other end of the armoured and terminated it into the tub. They did a full trip test to check the rcd before certifying it and switching it on so you can't take any short cuts 

presumably that was for a 32amp tub?
if it was a 13amp 'plug and play' one, we wouldnt need that?!

Yes that’s right. If you were to get a ‘lay-z-spa’ for example, you’d be able to plug it straight into that socket you already have outside. 

Don’t give up the ghost on getting a new supply out there though, get an electrician out to take a look as we have a knack for finding cable routes that others wouldn’t think of 

Chippycafc

Not wishing to be a party pooper but ensure you are aware of this.

https://legionellacontrol.com/legionella/legionnaires-disease-spa-pools-hot-tubs/

eaststandmike

JohnBoyUK said:

eaststandmike said:

Greenie Junior said:

JohnBoyUK said:

Cheers chaps, I suspected it would need another circuit!

Dave Rudd said:

@JohnBoyUK … difficult to see exactly from the picture, but it looks like your Outbuilding MCB is rated at 16amps.  Bearing in mind that you already have the man cave hooked up to that (fridge freezer, air con unit and heaven knows what else), it may not be too clever to put much more on that circuit.

When you say "Would we be able to add another box to deal with a 32a connection?", what exactly do you have in mind?

It sounds like you are planning to hook up something fairly hefty.  Floodlights for that evening kickabout maybe?  Outdoor stage?

Already it feels to me like you need another circuit.

Wife wants a hot tub / pool.  Had a look at some and seen they are 13a but some are much heftier and on a 32a system.  Only looking/thinking about it at this stage...investigating what other work would need to be done first.

If you’re having a hot tub, the hot tub company generally won’t install it unless there’s a dedicated 6mm supply with a rotary isolator nearby installed and certified by a spark. 

Greenie is bang on the money as we have just bought a hot tub and it was installed a month ago. I mounted the rotary isolator under my fuse board and then ran the armoured in to it. The hot tub team made off the other end of the armoured and terminated it into the tub. They did a full trip test to check the rcd before certifying it and switching it on so you can't take any short cuts 

presumably that was for a 32amp tub?
if it was a 13amp 'plug and play' one, we wouldnt need that?!

Correct John, and as Large says you get what you pay for so be careful with plug & play hot tubs.

Chippycafc

Aside from my post previously,  please always run hot taps and showers to the water is hot ie above 45 degrees....and particularly if you have been away on holiday....don't dive in a shower as soon as you get home...wait till it's run for 5 mins and is hot.

MrOneLung

Thinking of getting inflatable hot tub. Got this electrical unit in garden. Is this sufficient to run a hot tub (don’t know why photos are sideways!) 

Greenie Junior

MrOneLung said:

Thinking of getting inflatable hot tub. Got this electrical unit in garden. Is this sufficient to run a hot tub (don’t know why photos are sideways!) 

Is that run from your fuseboard indoors? That it almost looks like a street supply you’d find inside lamp posts etc? 

What does that unit control? 

MrOneLung

Yeah, on our main fuse board there is one that says Hot Tub so presuming the previous owners had one 

Greenie Junior

MrOneLung said:

Yeah, on our main fuse board there is one that says Hot Tub so presuming the previous owners had one 

Ah okay. Is the main fuse board RCD protected? If so I don’t see a problem with it feeding a standard plug and play hot tub. You may well need to install a proper outside socket coming off of that unit though to have it plugged in constantly Cos otherwise you’ll have to keep that unit open and it’ll be exposed to the elements. 

MrOneLung

Yeah RCD protected

thanks for the advice

Greenie Junior

MrOneLung said:

Yeah RCD protected

thanks for the advice

No problem

JohnBoyUK

Thanks again for the all advice kind people.

Finally caught up with our sparky over the Easter Weekend.  Through a combination of photographs, a video call walk through and sending him the building plans, he was able to confirm he'll be able to wire up a 32a connection for us via out through our utility room and will do it for us shortly.  Wife has ordered the hot tub she actually wanted rather than ordering a make do one so she's happy.

Greenie Junior

JohnBoyUK said:

Thanks again for the all advice kind people.

Finally caught up with our sparky over the Easter Weekend.  Through a combination of photographs, a video call walk through and sending him the building plans, he was able to confirm he'll be able to wire up a 32a connection for us via out through our utility room and will do it for us shortly.  Wife has ordered the hot tub she actually wanted rather than ordering a make do one so she's happy.

Happy days!