The biggest issue I can see with a en mass switch to EV’s still come down to charging for literally millions of people. I just Google Earthed a typical (?) suburban street and for those who want to check it’s Melling Street in Plumstead which is incidentally where my father in law lives. I counted the lampposts on either side of the street and the total is six. Given that lampposts are seen as a way of providing on street charging points in addition to dedicated charging points, I don’t see how it helps much. How would someone living in one of the terraced houses in that typical street hope to charge their EV ? Lampost charging would be chaos with cars competing for the space to charge and how exactly would people charge vehicles from a charging point from their property even if it was practical to have one fitted. These are not small issues that need resolving but massive issues that are duplicated up and down the country for millions and millions of car owners.
Can't the terraced house/non driveway plebs make do with public transport?
If you can't afford a proper abode, you have no right to use the new EV technology.
keep it for the elite.
I live in a terraced street where there are quite a few EVs. Every lampost has been adapted with a charger, but a lot of owners run a cable out overnight. They put a cover over the cable, and don't drape the cable as shown in the photo above.
Surely people can pay an electrician and / or build to run a cable from the house to the road in a small trench. Might cost the same as a couple of full tanks of petrol!
Think you’d need permission from the council. And what would cover the trench? A grille? Perhaps that could catch on if councils allowed it. But as Carter says, it’s not straightforward.
And perhaps expensively pointless if you can’t secure the parking space in front of your house which in many streets and roads is very much the case.
Shooters, you seem to be seeking out negatives, when the reality is that these changes are happening now, slowly at first, but more rapidly as time passes.
I live in a terraced street in the Battersea/Clapham area, and every lamppost in our street is equipped with an EV charge point. In addition all the people with EVs have a charge socket at home, so they can take advantage of the cheaper overnight rates.
There’s not really an issue with parking outside your own house, especially bearing in mind that you don’t need to charge your car every night. And if you do need to charge urgently you can use any one of the lamppost chargers - and it’s still cheaper than petrol, per mile.
These residents use the same cable ducts that television links truck use when running their cables to live cameras. Perfectly safe, but I imagine a minor irritation for wheelchair users. Having said that, I’ve never seen a wheelchair in our street in the 22 years I’ve lived here. And the car I’m looking at (Hyundai Inster) charges from 0-80% in 20 mins. Future generations of batteries will do the same as six or seven minutes. No more having to drive to a petrol station to fill up. Sounds good to me.
And when the first person trips and sues you......
They’d lose, which is why these ducts are in regular use in the television industry.
Not necessarily. I would assume when the TV industry do the same they probably also close areas, have other signs up etc, or if on set it would fall predominantly under employees liability.
in addition some motor insurers are specifically excluding this coverage, some specifically including. I won’t name names but I know of one insurer that currently has notification of a £700k claim for said trip!!
like all liability claims you would have to be found liable, a cover like that is not necessarily going to protect you against a claim.
i assume people doing this have read the Highway Code (rule 239 from memory)
I don’t see any possible defence for someone placing a trip hazard on a public pathway no matter what colour the cable protector is. Someone who is blind or partially sighted or even someone looking at their phone have a right to a pavement to be trip free. Comparing these to similar used in the film industry is nonsense. Under those conditions everyone on the set area would be well aware of there being cables around. A known hazard. These pavement hazards can pop up and disappear without any prior warning with no signage. Multiply this by potentially dozens of houses charging overnight in the dark and the whole notion of it being acceptable becomes ridiculous.
I think the 'pavement' discussion is something of a temporary red herring. Firstly around 70% of residential properties have on-plot areas suitable for charging (government report). The public infrastructure is increasing, particularly with rapid chargers. This will make charging for the 30% easy enough to make running cables over pavements not worth the hassle.
EVs will have some sort of tariff on charging introduced to replace lost petrol / diesel levies.
I assume this will be sooner rather than later.
For me the base cost of the car needs to reduce before there will be a larger uptake as the savings today on ‘mileage’ won’t be there for ever.
Its two-fold, there is the price of the new vehicles that is prohibitive but its also the doubt about the lifespan and performance etc of used ones and they are still a long way from being affordable. A bit like solar panels. I'd make it mandatory for all new construction to have solar roofs however the initial cost is one of those things that you need capital or a fast and loose approach to finance to take up and then see the savings over time.
EVs will have some sort of tariff on charging introduced to replace lost petrol / diesel levies.
I assume this will be sooner rather than later.
For me the base cost of the car needs to reduce before there will be a larger uptake as the savings today on ‘mileage’ won’t be there for ever.
If the car is charged from your own solar array I've no idea how they can tax that. Same would be true if battery storage or wind power.
Even pay per mile has lots of privacy concerns. I certainly do not want any government knowing when and where I drive. It is none of the states business IMO. It is bad enough to be tracked on major routes now.
I'm sure they will tax us all somehow, government is very efficient at taking money.
In the meantime I will be making hay (or electric) while the sun is shining
I think the 'pavement' discussion is something of a temporary red herring. Firstly around 70% of residential properties have on-plot areas suitable for charging (government report). The public infrastructure is increasing, particularly with rapid chargers. This will make charging for the 30% easy enough to make running cables over pavements not worth the hassle.
What happen to the rain water when the on-plot area’s are covered with non permeable material? Will it lead to flooding. Also who going to construct all the pavement crossovers and associated drop kerbs and there interference with underground services, that will be required. Certainly not impossible to overcome but consideration should be undertaken now as regulations should be place.
EVs will have some sort of tariff on charging introduced to replace lost petrol / diesel levies.
I assume this will be sooner rather than later.
For me the base cost of the car needs to reduce before there will be a larger uptake as the savings today on ‘mileage’ won’t be there for ever.
Its two-fold, there is the price of the new vehicles that is prohibitive but its also the doubt about the lifespan and performance etc of used ones and they are still a long way from being affordable. A bit like solar panels. I'd make it mandatory for all new construction to have solar roofs however the initial cost is one of those things that you need capital or a fast and loose approach to finance to take up and then see the savings over time.
Cost is falling all the time. A reasonable system is less than people spend on a new kitchen or even bathroom
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
I don’t see any possible defence for someone placing a trip hazard on a public pathway no matter what colour the cable protector is. Someone who is blind or partially sighted or even someone looking at their phone have a right to a pavement to be trip free. Comparing these to similar used in the film industry is nonsense. Under those conditions everyone on the set area would be well aware of there being cables around. A known hazard. These pavement hazards can pop up and disappear without any prior warning with no signage. Multiply this by potentially dozens of houses charging overnight in the dark and the whole notion of it being acceptable becomes ridiculous.
Running a charging cable across a public pavement without proper precautions or council approval is risky and may be considered negligent. To minimise legal exposure, a homeowner should explore safer options, such as:
Using council-approved cable covers.
Investigating dedicated on-street EV charging solutions provided by some councils.
Ensuring any temporary cable placement is clearly marked and secured, ideally with prior council approval.
Without taking these steps, a homeowner in England could be legally liable if someone trips over the cable and sustains an injury. If a homeowner has taken these - and perhaps other - steps, he or she would be unlikely to be found to be negligent and a claim against them would be likely to fail.
EVs will have some sort of tariff on charging introduced to replace lost petrol / diesel levies.
I assume this will be sooner rather than later.
For me the base cost of the car needs to reduce before there will be a larger uptake as the savings today on ‘mileage’ won’t be there for ever.
Its two-fold, there is the price of the new vehicles that is prohibitive but its also the doubt about the lifespan and performance etc of used ones and they are still a long way from being affordable. A bit like solar panels. I'd make it mandatory for all new construction to have solar roofs however the initial cost is one of those things that you need capital or a fast and loose approach to finance to take up and then see the savings over time.
Cost is falling all the time. A reasonable system is less than people spend on a new kitchen or even bathroom
You are not wrong, its another thing that costs though isn't it. If we all put our hands on our hearts none of us are choosing solar panels if the choice is solar panels, bathroom, kitchen. Its something you do when everything else is done due to the initial outlay. And I say this as someone very much in favour of solar power.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
For more than a million people, by 2030 (ie those that charge at home), taking five minutes to fill a tank will seem like a very, very old fashioned waste of time indeed.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
Thats another very depressing but true point. Dont upset yourself by looking up how many coal power stations China built last year!
A good mate of mine lives in India, moved back for a few years and told me how its laughable what we do with recycling for example when they just burn everything. And have a massive growth economy. When people are making money its a hard sell to make them think greener.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
All valid points.
But we are guilty of unnecessary consumerism and also used to built in obsolescence on products.
All contribute to manufacturing that isn’t needed.
Many aspects of our lives don’t help and as such until EVs and solar panels etc. are a financially more attractive option the take up will be slower than is ideal.
EVs will have some sort of tariff on charging introduced to replace lost petrol / diesel levies.
I assume this will be sooner rather than later.
For me the base cost of the car needs to reduce before there will be a larger uptake as the savings today on ‘mileage’ won’t be there for ever.
Its two-fold, there is the price of the new vehicles that is prohibitive but its also the doubt about the lifespan and performance etc of used ones and they are still a long way from being affordable. A bit like solar panels. I'd make it mandatory for all new construction to have solar roofs however the initial cost is one of those things that you need capital or a fast and loose approach to finance to take up and then see the savings over time.
Cost is falling all the time. A reasonable system is less than people spend on a new kitchen or even bathroom
You are not wrong, its another thing that costs though isn't it. If we all put our hands on our hearts none of us are choosing solar panels if the choice is solar panels, bathroom, kitchen. Its something you do when everything else is done due to the initial outlay. And I say this as someone very much in favour of solar power.
Yes it is a cost. It is also an optional cost, and it can be financed in various ways. Cash the cheapest but other options are available.
The great thing is to have these options. The fact that technology allows one to generate your own electricity and then keep hold of that for when you need it is liberating. Certainly compared to the previous century.
I would argue for my situation that cost is justified, and over the next 10 years it will revolutionise how I live.
Unlike a kitchen and bathroom I will also have a payback from the money saved on electricity and the money gained from selling back to the grid. Once it has paid back I still have the battery and solar generating and keeping power for me. Factor in maintenance and replacement inverter costs to that, but even so it will be the only investment in the house that makes me money (without selling my home).
If enough of us who can undertake this change do so, power will become cheaper for those who, for whatever reason, are not able to install solar.
If one can install battery but not solar I would suggest that is also something to investigate. One can charge a battery from the grid at 5p per kWh over night, and then use this in the day. That is a really good saving, although I appreciate the investment has to take place enable this.
I'm sure there will be more options coming.our way. Vertical installed solar on side of buildings, solar verandas are just a couple I have been reading about.
The same is true for vehicles. A change is underway, there will be stumbles and what we have now is not the final solution but standing still is not an option and never has been.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
For more than a million people, by 2030 (ie those that charge at home), taking five minutes to fill a tank will seem like a very, very old fashioned waste of time indeed.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
For more than a million people, by 2030 (ie those that charge at home), taking five minutes to fill a tank will seem like a very, very old fashioned waste of time indeed.
1 mil out of 69 mil UK population (currently in 2024) is unfortunately pretty much a spit in the ocean. The car companies and government leveraging off green concerns to move to EV are certainly are not worried about the car costs which are a massive increase in expense to the majority of the population not everybody can spend 10's of thousands on a car that can manage hardly any distance at all. Solution? Dont know but electricity has to be generated and paid for so that just puts the issue elsewhere. Cost/Availability & Access. I appreciate the UK is doing its best to be greener but as mentioned earlier there are some big players out there that frankly don't care one jot.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
For more than a million people, by 2030 (ie those that charge at home), taking five minutes to fill a tank will seem like a very, very old fashioned waste of time indeed.
1 mil out of 69 mil UK population (currently in 2024) is unfortunately pretty much a spit in the ocean. The car companies and government leveraging off green concerns to move to EV are certainly are not worried about the car costs which are a massive increase in expense to the majority of the population not everybody can spend 10's of thousands on a car that can manage hardly any distance at all. Solution? Dont know but electricity has to be generated and paid for so that just puts the issue elsewhere. Cost/Availability & Access. I appreciate the UK is doing its best to be greener but as mentioned earlier there are some big players out there that frankly don't care one jot.
You're comparing apples with oranges. One million homes, not one million people.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
For more than a million people, by 2030 (ie those that charge at home), taking five minutes to fill a tank will seem like a very, very old fashioned waste of time indeed.
1 mil out of 69 mil UK population (currently in 2024) is unfortunately pretty much a spit in the ocean. The car companies and government leveraging off green concerns to move to EV are certainly are not worried about the car costs which are a massive increase in expense to the majority of the population not everybody can spend 10's of thousands on a car that can manage hardly any distance at all. Solution? Dont know but electricity has to be generated and paid for so that just puts the issue elsewhere. Cost/Availability & Access. I appreciate the UK is doing its best to be greener but as mentioned earlier there are some big players out there that frankly don't care one jot.
To label China a developing nation that doesn't do anything is laughable given their efforts developing renewables. Yes they mine a lot of coal, but they do a lot of other things that reduce carbon emissions. I'd say the person who sits and blames others and uses that as an excuse to do nothing is the one who doesn't care.
Below is an article from New Automotive regarding the cost of going EV. It doesn't really support those telling us the cost is a "massive increase" or similar descriptions.
Jun 2024
A report from New Automotive has shown that price parity between EVs and their ICE counterparts may not be as far away as many suspect. On the back of the ZEV mandate being introduced last January, “Price Parity 2024: the final mile” looks at when price parity could be fully achieved.
Looking at a cross-section of the market where manufacturers offer EV and ICE versions of the same model, the report found that:
EV upfront costs were 12% more than petrol equivalents
Upfront price parity, or payback in less than 1 year, was achieved in 30% of examples
A further 25% would achieve payback in 2 ½ years or less
Motorists with average mileage could save up to £7,000 over four years by choosing an EV over a petrol equivalent, and a minimum of £3,000 over 4 years, whether they lease or buy by PCP or outright
A key observation is how the way by which a vehicle is acquired impacts the payback picture. When looking at outright purchase, the report shows that the time to reach parity varies greatly and is directly impacted by a manufacturer’s willingness (or not) to provide discounts on EV models. Of the seven pairs of models examined, payback time on outright purchase fluctuated from immediate parity up to 10-12 years.
For private leasing, the picture is more nuanced, impacted by mileage and initial deposit. On the ‘typical’ terms tested (four-year agreement, annual mileage of 8,000, nine-month rental up front), the majority of leasing agreements are already cheaper for EVs compared to their ICE equivalent. Five of the seven pairs covered by the report return a cost saving for EV over the four-year period tested.
@chizz you stated "for more than one million people" in your reply. Hence me looking up the UK population in my response !!. However, I think we have to accept, given that we have around 30 million dwellings in the UK, some of which have no cars and some have multiple cars we seriously have an infrastructure issue to resolve. Not withstanding the huge outlay on the new vehicles which I suspect a large number of the population cannot afford and in addition to how the hell do we generate the electricity to support it, not an easy fix.
@chizz you stated "for more than one million people" in your reply. Hence me looking up the UK population in my response !!. However, I think we have to accept, given that we have around 30 million dwellings in the UK, some of which have no cars and some have multiple cars we seriously have an infrastructure issue to resolve. Not withstanding the huge outlay on the new vehicles which I suspect a large number of the population cannot afford and in addition to how the hell do we generate the electricity to support it, not an easy fix.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
For more than a million people, by 2030 (ie those that charge at home), taking five minutes to fill a tank will seem like a very, very old fashioned waste of time indeed.
1 mil out of 69 mil UK population (currently in 2024) is unfortunately pretty much a spit in the ocean. The car companies and government leveraging off green concerns to move to EV are certainly are not worried about the car costs which are a massive increase in expense to the majority of the population not everybody can spend 10's of thousands on a car that can manage hardly any distance at all. Solution? Dont know but electricity has to be generated and paid for so that just puts the issue elsewhere. Cost/Availability & Access. I appreciate the UK is doing its best to be greener but as mentioned earlier there are some big players out there that frankly don't care one jot.
To label China a developing nation that doesn't do anything is laughable given their efforts developing renewables. Yes they mine a lot of coal, but they do a lot of other things that reduce carbon emissions. I'd say the person who sits and blames others and uses that as an excuse to do nothing is the one who doesn't care.
Appologies, shouldn't have said developing nations more like powerhouses who will do what it takes to benefit themselves. Not sure how the massive manufacturing industry in those countries is doing a lot for the environment.
India and China supporting Russia in an illegal war for example is all wrong.
You don't know me, you have no idea of how much I care.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
That growth comes with a health cost. Populations in those countries tend to be concentrated in large cities and the smog/pollution that comes with it, particularly with more and more coal fired power stations to generate electricity for their industries and homes, let alone switching to EVs, and rising temperatures is basically going to kill more and more of it’s citizens. Growth in those countries is going to take a dive, along with the number of citizens they have. The US is big enough, land size, to not worry about the climate problem and its cities don’t have as many people in them as the emerging market countries do
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
That growth comes with a health cost. Populations in those countries tend to be concentrated in large cities and the smog/pollution that comes with it, particularly with more and more coal fired power stations to generate electricity for their industries and homes, let alone switching to EVs, and rising temperatures is basically going to kill more and more of it’s citizens. Growth in those countries is going to take a dive, along with the number of citizens they have. The US is big enough, land size, to not worry about the climate problem and its cities don’t have as many people in them as the emerging market countries do
EVs will have some sort of tariff on charging introduced to replace lost petrol / diesel levies.
I assume this will be sooner rather than later.
For me the base cost of the car needs to reduce before there will be a larger uptake as the savings today on ‘mileage’ won’t be there for ever.
Its two-fold, there is the price of the new vehicles that is prohibitive but its also the doubt about the lifespan and performance etc of used ones and they are still a long way from being affordable. A bit like solar panels. I'd make it mandatory for all new construction to have solar roofs however the initial cost is one of those things that you need capital or a fast and loose approach to finance to take up and then see the savings over time.
Cost is falling all the time. A reasonable system is less than people spend on a new kitchen or even bathroom
The 10 month old Hyundai EV I've just bought (ex-demonstrator) came with a free installatrion of a home charger, as long as you bought on finance which I thought was a good offer (all Hyundai EVs qualify) - not sure how long the offer os on for.
EVs will have some sort of tariff on charging introduced to replace lost petrol / diesel levies.
I assume this will be sooner rather than later.
For me the base cost of the car needs to reduce before there will be a larger uptake as the savings today on ‘mileage’ won’t be there for ever.
Its two-fold, there is the price of the new vehicles that is prohibitive but its also the doubt about the lifespan and performance etc of used ones and they are still a long way from being affordable. A bit like solar panels. I'd make it mandatory for all new construction to have solar roofs however the initial cost is one of those things that you need capital or a fast and loose approach to finance to take up and then see the savings over time.
Cost is falling all the time. A reasonable system is less than people spend on a new kitchen or even bathroom
The 10 month old Hyundai EV I've just bought (ex-demonstrator) came with a free installatrion of a home charger, as long as you bought on finance which I thought was a good offer (all Hyundai EVs qualify) - not sure how long the offer os on for.
The charger and the installation must have a value/cost. It’s likely both are covered on the cost of the EV and/or the cost of the finance.
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
For more than a million people, by 2030 (ie those that charge at home), taking five minutes to fill a tank will seem like a very, very old fashioned waste of time indeed.
1 mil out of 69 mil UK population (currently in 2024) is unfortunately pretty much a spit in the ocean. The car companies and government leveraging off green concerns to move to EV are certainly are not worried about the car costs which are a massive increase in expense to the majority of the population not everybody can spend 10's of thousands on a car that can manage hardly any distance at all. Solution? Dont know but electricity has to be generated and paid for so that just puts the issue elsewhere. Cost/Availability & Access. I appreciate the UK is doing its best to be greener but as mentioned earlier there are some big players out there that frankly don't care one jot.
To label China a developing nation that doesn't do anything is laughable given their efforts developing renewables. Yes they mine a lot of coal, but they do a lot of other things that reduce carbon emissions. I'd say the person who sits and blames others and uses that as an excuse to do nothing is the one who doesn't care.
Appologies, shouldn't have said developing nations more like powerhouses who will do what it takes to benefit themselves. Not sure how the massive manufacturing industry in those countries is doing a lot for the environment.
India and China supporting Russia in an illegal war for example is all wrong.
You don't know me, you have no idea of how much I care.
Where do the products of that manufacturing end up?
By next year, there will be around 8,000 public rapid (150kW+) charging points in the UK, as well as 75,000 traditional public charging points and about half a million homes capable of charging EVs. This will compare with around 8,000 petrol stations. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be 20,000+ fast charging points, more than 300,000 traditional charging points and more than a million homes charging EVs. The proliferation of petrol stations will continue to decline, probably slumping to fewer than 6,000 by 2030.
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
For more than a million people, by 2030 (ie those that charge at home), taking five minutes to fill a tank will seem like a very, very old fashioned waste of time indeed.
1 mil out of 69 mil UK population (currently in 2024) is unfortunately pretty much a spit in the ocean. The car companies and government leveraging off green concerns to move to EV are certainly are not worried about the car costs which are a massive increase in expense to the majority of the population not everybody can spend 10's of thousands on a car that can manage hardly any distance at all. Solution? Dont know but electricity has to be generated and paid for so that just puts the issue elsewhere. Cost/Availability & Access. I appreciate the UK is doing its best to be greener but as mentioned earlier there are some big players out there that frankly don't care one jot.
To label China a developing nation that doesn't do anything is laughable given their efforts developing renewables. Yes they mine a lot of coal, but they do a lot of other things that reduce carbon emissions. I'd say the person who sits and blames others and uses that as an excuse to do nothing is the one who doesn't care.
Appologies, shouldn't have said developing nations more like powerhouses who will do what it takes to benefit themselves. Not sure how the massive manufacturing industry in those countries is doing a lot for the environment.
India and China supporting Russia in an illegal war for example is all wrong.
You don't know me, you have no idea of how much I care.
Never said I did and apologies if you thought I meant you personally.
We were once a powerhouse leading the charge to extract fossil fuels. W,e should therefore lead the charge to combat the consequences, not criticise those who haven't all had the same benefit and are catching up.
It's how individuals chose to live their lives that drives demand for fossil fuels. That starts and ends at home. We are responsible. Blaming others is deflection and no excuse for inaction. It's often used to support the 'why should I when others don't' argument, or 'anything I do is futile because of others.'
Comments
in addition some motor insurers are specifically excluding this coverage, some specifically including. I won’t name names but I know of one insurer that currently has notification of a £700k claim for said trip!!
like all liability claims you would have to be found liable, a cover like that is not necessarily going to protect you against a claim.
i assume people doing this have read the Highway Code (rule 239 from memory)
Cost is falling all the time. A reasonable system is less than people spend on a new kitchen or even bathroom
In London, there are 650 petrol stations currently, 18,000 EV charging points. By the end of the decade, there is predicted to be between 40,000 and 60,000. And, perhaps, a few hundred petrol stations.
I wonder at what point people will start to switch from ICE to EV because "the infrastructure for ICE cars just isn't there".
Running a charging cable across a public pavement without proper precautions or council approval is risky and may be considered negligent. To minimise legal exposure, a homeowner should explore safer options, such as:
Without taking these steps, a homeowner in England could be legally liable if someone trips over the cable and sustains an injury. If a homeowner has taken these - and perhaps other - steps, he or she would be unlikely to be found to be negligent and a claim against them would be likely to fail.
Great numbers if it works out but it takes me 5 mins to fill the tank and then I'm off. Not hanging around for a coffee and sandwich before setting off again. More needs to be done to restrict the polution from major countries who don't appear at all concerned about the green house effect. Such as Brazil, China, India and any other emerging nations who are seeking growth over pretty much everything else. I expect the US might also be in the mix. Too many people on this planet which countries are fighting to support will be our ultimate downfall.
A good mate of mine lives in India, moved back for a few years and told me how its laughable what we do with recycling for example when they just burn everything. And have a massive growth economy. When people are making money its a hard sell to make them think greener.
1 mil out of 69 mil UK population (currently in 2024) is unfortunately pretty much a spit in the ocean. The car companies and government leveraging off green concerns to move to EV are certainly are not worried about the car costs which are a massive increase in expense to the majority of the population not everybody can spend 10's of thousands on a car that can manage hardly any distance at all. Solution? Dont know but electricity has to be generated and paid for so that just puts the issue elsewhere. Cost/Availability & Access. I appreciate the UK is doing its best to be greener but as mentioned earlier there are some big players out there that frankly don't care one jot.
Jun 2024
A report from New Automotive has shown that price parity between EVs and their ICE counterparts may not be as far away as many suspect. On the back of the ZEV mandate being introduced last January, “Price Parity 2024: the final mile” looks at when price parity could be fully achieved.
Looking at a cross-section of the market where manufacturers offer EV and ICE versions of the same model, the report found that:
EV upfront costs were 12% more than petrol equivalents
Upfront price parity, or payback in less than 1 year, was achieved in 30% of examples
A further 25% would achieve payback in 2 ½ years or less
Motorists with average mileage could save up to £7,000 over four years by choosing an EV over a petrol equivalent, and a minimum of £3,000 over 4 years, whether they lease or buy by PCP or outright
A key observation is how the way by which a vehicle is acquired impacts the payback picture. When looking at outright purchase, the report shows that the time to reach parity varies greatly and is directly impacted by a manufacturer’s willingness (or not) to provide discounts on EV models. Of the seven pairs of models examined, payback time on outright purchase fluctuated from immediate parity up to 10-12 years.
For private leasing, the picture is more nuanced, impacted by mileage and initial deposit. On the ‘typical’ terms tested (four-year agreement, annual mileage of 8,000, nine-month rental up front), the majority of leasing agreements are already cheaper for EVs compared to their ICE equivalent. Five of the seven pairs covered by the report return a cost saving for EV over the four-year period tested.
Read the full report on the New Automotive website.
We were once a powerhouse leading the charge to extract fossil fuels. W,e should therefore lead the charge to combat the consequences, not criticise those who haven't all had the same benefit and are catching up.
It's how individuals chose to live their lives that drives demand for fossil fuels. That starts and ends at home. We are responsible. Blaming others is deflection and no excuse for inaction. It's often used to support the 'why should I when others don't' argument, or 'anything I do is futile because of others.'