The first point to make is this lady is not a murderer. But her negligence has caused the death of a young man. You have to take responsibility for your actions. She should have out of respect for the young man's family and the tragedy she caused fully co-operated with the police and remained in the country. I suspect this will not end well for her and she has been badly advised.
Shes probably be advised even if shes made to comeback and there is a custodial there wont be no more time added on.
The maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving is five years.
If the offender pleads guilty the sentence will be reduced by up to one third depending on how early the plea was made. I would have thought that by doing a runner, that will be significantly reduced.
She's not going to do any time. Anyone thinking otherwise is deluded. IF she is persuaded to return to the UK it will only ever be on the condition that she will not face jail time. Otherwise she just stays in the US and there's fuck all the UK can or will do about it.
She's not going to do any time. Anyone thinking otherwise is deluded. IF she is persuaded to return to the UK it will only ever be on the condition that she will not face jail time. Otherwise she just stays in the US and there's fuck all the UK can or will do about it.
Exactly. No way she's going to voluntarily come here with the threat of a a few years prison sentence hanging over her.
The first point to make is this lady is not a murderer. But her negligence has caused the death of a young man. You have to take responsibility for your actions. She should have out of respect for the young man's family and the tragedy she caused fully co-operated with the police and remained in the country. I suspect this will not end well for her and she has been badly advised.
Surely the point is we don’t know what she is or isn’t as she hasn’t stayed in the country to face justice?
Ok, we can make a decent guess that she wasn't seeking to kill a young lad.
The issue is the running away and hiding behind a rule that wasnt designed to serve this situation.
In reality, this isnt a murder case. And I would assume the justice system wouldnt have treated it as such. In fact, the lads family have even said if she simply followed through the process, they could see it was an accident. A tragic one - but an accident. They have said they didnt want prosecution, and that as a parent of a child herself it was a million miles away from what they were after.
I've made mistakes driving before. We all have. Thank the lord that mine had no consequences. By the grace of god be it.
If she had just stayed here, I dare say the normal process would have bought closure for the family AND for her.
Whilst the US and Libya are world's apart diplomatically, we shouldn't forget that diplomatic immunity was used to allow a Libyan to leave the country with his gun after shooting dead policewoman, Yvonne Fletcher, in 1984. The only argument the Americans could really use was that their citizen was being fitted up here, something that looks highly unlikely and to which no claim has been made. The fact that the woman was co-operating with the police points a heavy finger and if we are not supported on this, our government has to be seen to do something. We have supported similar request from the US in the past and waived diplomatic immunity.
The issue is the running away and hiding behind a rule that wasnt designed to serve this situation.
In reality, this isnt a murder case. And I would assume the justice system wouldnt have treated it as such. In fact, the lads family have even said if she simply followed through the process, they could see it was an accident. A tragic one - but an accident. They have said they didnt want prosecution, and that as a parent of a child herself it was a million miles away from what they were after.
I've made mistakes driving before. We all have. Thank the lord that mine had no consequences. By the grace of god be it.
If she had just stayed here, I dare say the normal process would have bought closure for the family AND for her.
Who advised her to run I shall never know.
Just wondering if anyone advised her or if she just panicked.
The person involved is disgusting and should face justice.
But diplomatic immunity is an important principal to stop governments, some of whom are corrupt and oppressive, from arresting foreign diplomats, and their families, on trumped up (no pun intended) charges for political reasons. It's not about secret information.
Look at what Corbyn's friends in Iran are doing arresting people, like Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and the Australian couple who aren't protected by diplomatic immunity, for political leverage.
The US should tell the car driver to get back on a plane now and face the music but diplomatic immunity as a general principle should remain.
This weeks award for gratuitous political point-scoring, although I agree with your overall point.
I am mystified why she did a runner. She can’t be arrested or charged, and there would be zero chance of immunity being waived for something like this.
The maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving is five years.
If the offender pleads guilty the sentence will be reduced by up to one third depending on how early the plea was made. I would have thought that by doing a runner, that will be significantly reduced.
The husband wasn't an offical diplomat and neither was his wife - they aren't on the diplomatic register but he is seeking to be recognised as one because the airbase he was at is treated as an extension of the US Embassy. But the real reason he wasn't on the register I suspect is because he was a spy.
Even if one or other were Diplomats, the family could sue the driver in the USA because immunity only applies in a foreign country and not in their homeland- if they aren't prepared to send her back then the Government should fund an action in the USA.
I've never understood this diplomatic immunity and thought it was just one of those old laws that wasn't necessarily adhered to. Rmember the old Chrintine Keeler film, but I thought we'd moved on a bit from then
Wonder what this women's friends and family think of what she's done?
The maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving is five years.
If the offender pleads guilty the sentence will be reduced by up to one third depending on how early the plea was made. I would have thought that by doing a runner, that will be significantly reduced.
The maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving is five years.
If the offender pleads guilty the sentence will be reduced by up to one third depending on how early the plea was made. I would have thought that by doing a runner, that will be significantly reduced.
Thank you for linking to the PDF that summarises the issue and from which I can see where you have made the mistake. You've misinterpreted a badly-written line in that PDF and one which the Sentencing Council should clear up, because others could misinterpret it in the same way.
The leaflet is badly written. It should say that "the maximum sentence the court can impose for EITHER causing death by dangerous driving OR causing death by careless driving under the influence of drink or drugs is 14 years; and the maximum sentence the court can impose for EITHER causing death by careless driving OR causing death by inconsiderate driving is five years".
In short - causing death by:
inconsiderate driving - max five years
careless driving - max five years (unless also under the influence, in which case, max fourteen years)
dangerous driving - max fourteen years
To be clear, the maximum sentence that a court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving (as defined by section 1 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52), and, as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2003, c. 44, Part 12, Chapter 8, Section 285 (3)) is fourteen years, and had previously been ten years.
Hope that clarifies my criticism of your initial comment @Addickted and it explains it fully @Henry Irving
Aside from this case, the tragic instances of people losing their lives via a motorist making a mistake is an area that divides and terrifies me in equal measure.
Humans are fallible. We make mistakes.
I have made mistakes. I haven’t been under the influence or any other circumstances that meant I shouldn’t have been behind the wheel... maybe it’s moving in to another lane and forgetting to check my blindspot etc.
A prison sentence isn’t a deterrent here. I could just as easily make a mistake in future as could anyone else.
Aside from this case, the tragic instances of people losing their lives via a motorist making a mistake is an area that divides and terrifies me in equal measure.
Humans are fallible. We make mistakes.
I have made mistakes. I haven’t been under the influence or any other circumstances that meant I shouldn’t have been behind the wheel... maybe it’s moving in to another lane and forgetting to check my blindspot etc.
A prison sentence isn’t a deterrent here. I could just as easily make a mistake in future as could anyone else.
It has always felt like such a grey area
The changing lanes example is a good one. I would say it's clear that that would not be "dangerous driving". But it seems to be well within the orbit of "careless" driving. Not deliberate, but a mistake.
And if that mistake causes someone to lose their life, I think most families who have lost someone in circumstances like that would prefer a custodial sentence is meted out.
Jail isn't just a deterrent. It's fur public protection, rehabilitation and punishment. Killing someone in this way demands and deserves a punishment. Even if it's for the "lesser" charge of careless.
The maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving is five years.
If the offender pleads guilty the sentence will be reduced by up to one third depending on how early the plea was made. I would have thought that by doing a runner, that will be significantly reduced.
Thank you for linking to the PDF that summarises the issue and from which I can see where you have made the mistake. You've misinterpreted a badly-written line in that PDF and one which the Sentencing Council should clear up, because others could misinterpret it in the same way.
The leaflet is badly written. It should say that "the maximum sentence the court can impose for EITHER causing death by dangerous driving OR causing death by careless driving under the influence of drink or drugs is 14 years; and the maximum sentence the court can impose for EITHER causing death by careless driving OR causing death by inconsiderate driving is five years".
In short - causing death by:
inconsiderate driving - max five years
careless driving - max five years (unless also under the influence, in which case, max fourteen years)
dangerous driving - max fourteen years
To be clear, the maximum sentence that a court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving (as defined by section 1 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52), and, as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2003, c. 44, Part 12, Chapter 8, Section 285 (3)) is fourteen years, and had previously been ten years.
Hope that clarifies my criticism of your initial comment @Addickted and it explains it fully @Henry Irving
So not 'nonsense' then.
The only thing it clarifies is my initial post that the maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving is five years.
The maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving is five years.
If the offender pleads guilty the sentence will be reduced by up to one third depending on how early the plea was made. I would have thought that by doing a runner, that will be significantly reduced.
Thank you for linking to the PDF that summarises the issue and from which I can see where you have made the mistake. You've misinterpreted a badly-written line in that PDF and one which the Sentencing Council should clear up, because others could misinterpret it in the same way.
The leaflet is badly written. It should say that "the maximum sentence the court can impose for EITHER causing death by dangerous driving OR causing death by careless driving under the influence of drink or drugs is 14 years; and the maximum sentence the court can impose for EITHER causing death by careless driving OR causing death by inconsiderate driving is five years".
In short - causing death by:
inconsiderate driving - max five years
careless driving - max five years (unless also under the influence, in which case, max fourteen years)
dangerous driving - max fourteen years
To be clear, the maximum sentence that a court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving (as defined by section 1 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52), and, as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2003, c. 44, Part 12, Chapter 8, Section 285 (3)) is fourteen years, and had previously been ten years.
Hope that clarifies my criticism of your initial comment @Addickted and it explains it fully @Henry Irving
So not 'nonsense' then.
The only thing it clarifies is my initial post that the maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving is five years.
You're repeating the same mistake! The maximum sentence a court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving is fourteen years.
You do undersand and agree with that now, don't you?
Comments
If the offender pleads guilty the sentence will be reduced by up to one third depending on how early the plea was made.
I would have thought that by doing a runner, that will be significantly reduced.
In reality, this isnt a murder case. And I would assume the justice system wouldnt have treated it as such. In fact, the lads family have even said if she simply followed through the process, they could see it was an accident. A tragic one - but an accident. They have said they didnt want prosecution, and that as a parent of a child herself it was a million miles away from what they were after.
I've made mistakes driving before. We all have. Thank the lord that mine had no consequences. By the grace of god be it.
If she had just stayed here, I dare say the normal process would have bought closure for the family AND for her.
Who advised her to run I shall never know.
Not for long though tf
That's reassuring.
"Anne Sacoolas, 42, was fined £200 for being distracted behind the wheel near her home in Virginia in November 2006.
The charge “failure to pay full time and attention” usually relates to drivers caught making calls at the wheel or traffic lane discipline."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC7vbK_UoOg
Even if one or other were Diplomats, the family could sue the driver in the USA because immunity only applies in a foreign country and not in their homeland- if they aren't prepared to send her back then the Government should fund an action in the USA.
Wonder what this women's friends and family think of what she's done?
The leaflet is badly written. It should say that "the maximum sentence the court can impose for EITHER causing death by dangerous driving OR causing death by careless driving under the influence of drink or drugs is 14 years; and the maximum sentence the court can impose for EITHER causing death by careless driving OR causing death by inconsiderate driving is five years".
In short - causing death by:
To be clear, the maximum sentence that a court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving (as defined by section 1 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52), and, as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2003, c. 44, Part 12, Chapter 8, Section 285 (3)) is fourteen years, and had previously been ten years.
Hope that clarifies my criticism of your initial comment @Addickted and it explains it fully @Henry Irving
Humans are fallible. We make mistakes.
I have made mistakes. I haven’t been under the influence or any other circumstances that meant I shouldn’t have been behind the wheel... maybe it’s moving in to another lane and forgetting to check my blindspot etc.
A prison sentence isn’t a deterrent here. I could just as easily make a mistake in future as could anyone else.
And if that mistake causes someone to lose their life, I think most families who have lost someone in circumstances like that would prefer a custodial sentence is meted out.
Jail isn't just a deterrent. It's fur public protection, rehabilitation and punishment. Killing someone in this way demands and deserves a punishment. Even if it's for the "lesser" charge of careless.
The only thing it clarifies is my initial post that the maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving is five years.
You do undersand and agree with that now, don't you?