Peter, perhaps he didn't see the three blatant hand balls but please give your view on the foul against Aneke. Also why only a yellow for the three phased assault on Pearce, and no yellow after playing advantage.
Hi as I said in an earlier post, as a home boycotter I wasnt at the game
Then you should probably stop telling people that actually saw the game that they are wrong.
Comments like yours sum up the issues with refs, you all think you're beyond criticism.
Absolutely hopeless. The one where aneke got penalised for kicking the ball was crazy. The push on pearce was surely a red, but no. The time wasting, their goalie doing keep ups before a place kick, deliberately kicking a ball on to stop play, then sending Bow off. Disgraceful. Im still angry about it all now ffs!
And 6mins of added on time. Could easily have been 10+, not that we'd have scored anyway tbf!
We are just as bad as other teams at game management so we can't complain when it is done to us. Throwing the ball on the pitch crossed a line, but Bowyer paid the biggest price for it so it wasn't really punished. For me, you get the tactics you do because refs do not add on the time that is lost. It is as simple as that and the solution lies at their door. I won't be holding my breath with the arrogant it is somebody else's fault attitude they have, but in the meantime, we will benefit from this ugly form of the game as well as lose from it, but the only losers overall are the fans.
There are three things the game has got badly wrong and it needs to sort out.
1) VAR - I actually support VAR, but the way it has been brought in has been a disaster 2) Handball rule - It should be left to the judgement of the ref to decide if it is intentional or not - that's it. It is now a complete mess where nobody, even refs, fully know how to implement it. 3) Time management - As long as refs do not accurately add the time on that is wasted, players will continue to waste it.
Tough gig being a ref but on Saturday the Ref lost the plot 2nd half. Not sending the number 26 off for his second Yellow card on Gallagher just because we took a quick free kick and he forgot by the time the ball went out of play was poor. The Aneke free kick was a shocker but the Birmingham players and coaches knew how to play this ref and took the Opportunity to milk it for all it's worth. The ball on the pitch was taking gamesmanship too far and against a shite football club like Birmingham city who's fans think attacking a Junior Red coach is fair game a few years ago is gutting.
Come back Roger East, A top Referee who graced the Valley last season.
Thanks for that crap, insincere apology. You seem to want to pick on me because I am critical of refs. I accept there are good ones and always have, but my blasphemy is the view that there are bad ones and worse too. You seem to have no respect for the time I and others like me spend developing young men in youth football. That is more time and effort and has cost me more money and possibly criticism than being a ref will have cost you and your mates pocketing tax free payments on a Saturday and Sunday and going straight home. In your world it is a one way street.
My tip is when you make an apology, don't qualify it with a paragraph insinuating the person you are apologising to doesn't understand the rules of the game. Yes, I am going to call them rules because that is what they F***ing well are. If you want to correct me knowingly, because they should be referred to as laws, it merely shows complete pedantry that exists in your world.
My son took the refs course as part of his playing development and because of his age I was required to attend parts with him, and very interesting and enlightening it was too. He then had to ref games to qualify. Again this was interesting as I had never watched games where I had no interest whatsoever in the result, but was interested in my sons decision making. He is very good at it and they want him to go further with it.
What I was shocked by was the language and abuse he was subjected too by parents (in the main) and by some coaches. The coaches often apologized afterwards, but obviously missed the point that this is the message that was being passed out to the children and their parents. We are talking about under 7’s!
Adults running the line can be quite comical when the players are old enough to play offside. Either cheating or it has been awhile since they had brushed up on it all. Being overruled could see them jumping up and down still waving their flag. The lack of knowledge by some managers and coaches of quite basic laws and the role of the ref was disappointing, but probably not surprising given the lack of priority it gets on coaching courses.
He is now 17 and in his third year is reffing the under 16’s sometimes. Players have learned their lessons well and now feel free to throw their abuse into the ring. I no longer watch. This will be his last season as there is no enjoyment in it. The club he belongs too trained 8 up in his age group and there are just two left as the others have jacked it in. The other one will only do kids football.
The refs like we got on Saturday will be of a type in my opinion. The ones that have what it takes to stand the abuse and threats. Good luck to them. They earn every penny and without them we do not have a game.
If we want better, we need to educate managers, coaches, and more importantly, players, in understanding and respecting the laws and those that apply them. That way there is a chance that there will be a bigger pool of refs, and a higher number of better ones.
I recognise some of what you say. Teams do try to intimidate the ref to get decisions. Some might not believe it but I always tried to stop our players doing this and insisted they accept decisions. I had to ref a game this season when the ref didn't show, or at least half a game as we agreed to swap at half time. It is always hard reffing your own team as you try very hard not to show bias, but I got it big time from our opponents. Keep up with play ref. You are useless ref. You are a cheat. It was even harder for me as I didn't want to inflame things so was more lenient with them. When you see a tough challenge, it can be marginal whether it is a foul or not - you try to be consistent - whatever you decide, you are a wanker! As a non ref, you make a few decisions and think, maybe I should have given a foul - That is why teams intimidate. To get you to give them more decisions.
One of our opponents players went up for a corner and purposely tripped himself up. I saw it as clear as daylight and told him as much and to get up. I had to deal with a bunch of twats rushing over to me calling me every name. They were trying to make me think I had made a terrible decision. Then giving me backchat about being a cheat or blind about it through the remainder of the half. I told one that was giving me stick a few minutes later, that I saw the bloke tripped himself up perfectly well which proved to me he hadn't even seen what he was moaning to me about. Rather than argue with that he admitted he hadn't seen it, but I was a shit ref anyway. I said I wasn't a ref and I was sure I was probably shit, but I was not a cheat.
It did bring it home to me what refs have to put up with. Especially at grass roots level. And the responsibility of teams to not cross the line and respect them. But that is different to criticising refs after the game on here or even us slagging them off in our after match team talk if we felt it was deserved. And I think it is ok to clarify a decision with the ref respectfully. I have found some refs respond fine to that, but some are far too defensive. Whilst there are some complete arsehole teams, there are also some rubbish refs. My son refs too and I have seen this from some coaches and parents aimed at him. But he is the right character to deal with it and I think it is good for him in a certain way. Although it pisses me off big time.
At grass roots level it's a shame they can't organise a strike one weekend and see how the matches go with the home team providing the ref like they do in under 11 matches where its 7 a side.
In the pro game where the refs are earning hundreds of pounds per game in the top 2 divisions then they should be open to criticism. I have found most refs this season better than last so far but the ref on Saturday made basic errors in the 2nd half.
The common sense way to deal with Saturday was for the ref to run up to the Birmingham bench and say he would be dealing with it after the game and for them to stay put. Then continue with the added time. At the end of the game, he should have identified who was responsible for the ball going on the pitch and booked him. And that would have been that. The League should then have noted the incident and warned Birmingham that if there is ever a repeat, they would face serious consequences.
I'm not going to sugar coat it, the referee was absolutely shit.
Of course we're gonna slag him off when we're on the receiving end but during the time their player was down, their manager and Bows altercation. Not once did he do anything to control the time wasting.
The last 10mins of the game was a total farce.
I'm a qualified ref with London FA and The FA, might have to reinstate myself as by the looks of it, I could go quite high up the ladder if these are the type of referees I'd have to compete with.
I got to level 4 and I can understand your frustration about time wasting or delaying restart but I must have cautioned 3 times at that level for this and my assessors pulled me up for doing so each time.which I do not agree with because it is frustrating for fans. yet the laws have changed to help stop time wasting eg substitute leaving field of play nearest point. Don’t think I’ve actually seen this happen yet. Think Birmingham manager got caution for delaying restart and Bowyer got violent conduct.which is determined how aggressively he threw the ball at the Birmingham bench.
I think the ball must have bounced at least three times before it got there.
I think it's ludicrous to infer that a referee's performance is acceptable, as long as a multitude of errors aren't game changing.
I wonder how many non game changing errors are acceptable ?
I'd say perhaps 5, but I get the impression that there would still be a defence if there were 20.
He certainly made more than 10 mistakes.
And that’s the point. No one is immune to criticism and that of course goes for referees as well. It doesn’t matter if someone has all the qualifications in the world, if they’re making poor decisions, they ought to be told and made aware.
Some referees have egos and like having the game about themselves, it makes them feel powerful. People can tell me that’s nonsense, people can also tell me that it’s nonsense that there are many who don’t understand and know the laws of the game, but I know for a fact that it’s true. Even my bloody mentor when I was starting out said the same to me.
We used to have some very good referees in football but now I see the standard so far below what it should, and used to, be that it’s also not acceptable to not be allowed to criticise their performances. In any other line of work, you’d have to justify your reasons for the decisions made to whoever that might be. It seems to me that doesn’t happen anymore in football.
I think it's ludicrous to infer that a referee's performance is acceptable, as long as a multitude of errors aren't game changing.
I wonder how many non game changing errors are acceptable ?
I'd say perhaps 5, but I get the impression that there would still be a defence if there were 20.
He certainly made more than 10 mistakes.
And that’s the point. No one is immune to criticism and that of course goes for referees as well. It doesn’t matter if someone has all the qualifications in the world, if they’re making poor decisions, they ought to be told and made aware.
Some referees have egos and like having the game about themselves, it makes them feel powerful. People can tell me that’s nonsense, people can also tell me that it’s nonsense that there are many who don’t understand and know the laws of the game, but I know for a fact that it’s true. Even my bloody mentor when I was starting out said the same to me.
We used to have some very good referees in football but now I see the standard so far below what it should, and used to, be that it’s also not acceptable to not be allowed to criticise their performances. In any other line of work, you’d have to justify your reasons for the decisions made to whoever that might be. It seems to me that doesn’t happen anymore in football.
A little like some stewards who truly think they are more important, because they have a high viz jacket.
I think it's ludicrous to infer that a referee's performance is acceptable, as long as a multitude of errors aren't game changing.
I wonder how many non game changing errors are acceptable ?
I'd say perhaps 5, but I get the impression that there would still be a defence if there were 20.
He certainly made more than 10 mistakes.
And that’s the point. No one is immune to criticism and that of course goes for referees as well. It doesn’t matter if someone has all the qualifications in the world, if they’re making poor decisions, they ought to be told and made aware.
Some referees have egos and like having the game about themselves, it makes them feel powerful. People can tell me that’s nonsense, people can also tell me that it’s nonsense that there are many who don’t understand and know the laws of the game, but I know for a fact that it’s true. Even my bloody mentor when I was starting out said the same to me.
We used to have some very good referees in football but now I see the standard so far below what it should, and used to, be that it’s also not acceptable to not be allowed to criticise their performances. In any other line of work, you’d have to justify your reasons for the decisions made to whoever that might be. It seems to me that doesn’t happen anymore in football.
A little like some stewards who truly think they are more important, because they have a high viz jacket.
Exactly like that. Power trip and they’re no good for anyone in those situations.
I got to level 4 and I can understand your frustration about time wasting or delaying restart but I must have cautioned 3 times at that level for this and my assessors pulled me up for doing so each time.which I do not agree with because it is frustrating for fans. yet the laws have changed to help stop time wasting eg substitute leaving field of play nearest point. Don’t think I’ve actually seen this happen yet. Think Birmingham manager got caution for delaying restart and Bowyer got violent conduct.which is determined how aggressively he threw the ball at the Birmingham bench.
I think the ball must have bounced at least three times before it got there.
This is what an aggressive throw of the ball looks like.
I got to level 4 and I can understand your frustration about time wasting or delaying restart but I must have cautioned 3 times at that level for this and my assessors pulled me up for doing so each time.which I do not agree with because it is frustrating for fans. yet the laws have changed to help stop time wasting eg substitute leaving field of play nearest point. Don’t think I’ve actually seen this happen yet. Think Birmingham manager got caution for delaying restart and Bowyer got violent conduct.which is determined how aggressively he threw the ball at the Birmingham bench.
I think the ball must have bounced at least three times before it got there.
This is what an aggressive throw of the ball looks like.
Ha, and footballers, managers and coaches are kinda used to having a ball come their way. Waiting for someone to say that “he could have had someone’s eye out”.
Sage your chatting shit.you sound like the old bloke down the pub things were so much better in the old days. From step 6 upwards referees have assessors at nearly every game marking there performance.telling them there mistakes what they done well and what they can do to improve aspects of there game. The marks are then used and at the end off season they are promoted or demoted. The clubs also mark the referees and this can also lead to promotion or demotion. The higher up you go the assessors will also use video to assess the major decisions. So tell me do you have someone sitting watching you do your job all day and telling you what you done right or wrong and what you should do to improve. The refs have better training now days and young refs with potential have coaches and go on schemes for extra training. No matter what there still going to get things wrong we’ve got var now and they’ve admitted 4 mistakes.so even watching replays over and over we can’t get some decisions right when we’re impartial. Do you think fans of each team are going to agree. Always makes me laugh when I watch a match and see fans going mental doing v signs swearing and what ever because they didn’t get a throw in there way must be embarrassing if it’s you on tele doing that it’s a throw in for fuck sack.
Ex top referee Keith Hackett has looked at all the VAR decisions this season and in his opinion there were rather more than 4 wrong decisions. He said that so far VAR is being used more to defend refs than get the right decision.
All the while refs assess refs and refs check ref decisions things will not improve because it's always defend the ref first.
Oh forgot to say seen clip of bowyer throwing ball on Twitter not sending off for me only thing is if he swore at ref or something. The thing with time wasting is we all think it’s funny when our team does it but when opposition does it they should be shot.
Nope fucks me off when anyone time wastes
I've paid good money to go watch some Football not to watch players taking the piss by stopping the game where possible
Up there with Diving in my list of pet hates within the game
Why did you let that mob give you grief Muttley when you were covering as a ref . Whenever I’ve covered as a ref I make sure everyone knows I’m not a ref and I’ll do my best etc as soon as the moaning starts I’m on it with offering the whistle to the moaner and asking if they’d like to do it . The half a dozen or so times it’s happened no one wants to be the ref and the moaning slows down big time .
I always get all my kids to thank the ref and umpire and remind them constantly there’s no game without them and even if they’re wrong they’re right and their decision is final .
obviously higher up the game the refs are gonna have their mistakes churned and burned over but in years gone by this wouldn’t happen because the coverage and angles of everything wasn’t available , so literally everyone’s mind would have a different view of something controversial.
and with more scrutiny refs will appear to be worse , I don’t believe they are
Why did you let that mob give you grief Muttley when you were covering as a ref . Whenever I’ve covered as a ref I make sure everyone knows I’m not a ref and I’ll do my best etc as soon as the moaning starts I’m on it with offering the whistle to the moaner and asking if they’d like to do it . The half a dozen or so times it’s happened no one wants to be the ref and the moaning slows down big time .
I always get all my kids to thank the ref and umpire and remind them constantly there’s no game without them and even if they’re wrong they’re right and their decision is final .
obviously higher up the game the refs are gonna have their mistakes churned and burned over but in years gone by this wouldn’t happen because the coverage and angles of everything wasn’t available , so literally everyone’s mind would have a different view of something controversial.
and with more scrutiny refs will appear to be worse , I don’t believe they are
Well firstly we won 4-1. I let them give me grief because I can take it and I wasn't going to give them an excuse or anything to complain about. They were just a scummy team which I know are out there.
Oh forgot to say seen clip of bowyer throwing ball on Twitter not sending off for me only thing is if he swore at ref or something. The thing with time wasting is we all think it’s funny when our team does it but when opposition does it they should be shot.
5 minutes between posts. One of the quickest change of mind's seen since Chukka Umunna
Comments
And 6mins of added on time. Could easily have been 10+, not that we'd have scored anyway tbf!
1) VAR - I actually support VAR, but the way it has been brought in has been a disaster
2) Handball rule - It should be left to the judgement of the ref to decide if it is intentional or not - that's it. It is now a complete mess where nobody, even refs, fully know how to implement it.
3) Time management - As long as refs do not accurately add the time on that is wasted, players will continue to waste it.
The Aneke free kick was a shocker but the Birmingham players and coaches knew how to play this ref and took the Opportunity to milk it for all it's worth.
The ball on the pitch was taking gamesmanship too far and against a shite football club like Birmingham city who's fans think attacking a Junior Red coach is fair game a few years ago is gutting.
Come back Roger East, A top Referee who graced the Valley last season.
One of our opponents players went up for a corner and purposely tripped himself up. I saw it as clear as daylight and told him as much and to get up. I had to deal with a bunch of twats rushing over to me calling me every name. They were trying to make me think I had made a terrible decision. Then giving me backchat about being a cheat or blind about it through the remainder of the half. I told one that was giving me stick a few minutes later, that I saw the bloke tripped himself up perfectly well which proved to me he hadn't even seen what he was moaning to me about. Rather than argue with that he admitted he hadn't seen it, but I was a shit ref anyway. I said I wasn't a ref and I was sure I was probably shit, but I was not a cheat.
It did bring it home to me what refs have to put up with. Especially at grass roots level. And the responsibility of teams to not cross the line and respect them. But that is different to criticising refs after the game on here or even us slagging them off in our after match team talk if we felt it was deserved. And I think it is ok to clarify a decision with the ref respectfully. I have found some refs respond fine to that, but some are far too defensive. Whilst there are some complete arsehole teams, there are also some rubbish refs. My son refs too and I have seen this from some coaches and parents aimed at him. But he is the right character to deal with it and I think it is good for him in a certain way. Although it pisses me off big time.
In the pro game where the refs are earning hundreds of pounds per game in the top 2 divisions then they should be open to criticism. I have found most refs this season better than last so far but the ref on Saturday made basic errors in the 2nd half.
Of course we're gonna slag him off when we're on the receiving end but during the time their player was down, their manager and Bows altercation. Not once did he do anything to control the time wasting.
The last 10mins of the game was a total farce.
I'm a qualified ref with London FA and The FA, might have to reinstate myself as by the looks of it, I could go quite high up the ladder if these are the type of referees I'd have to compete with.
I wonder how many non game changing errors are acceptable ?
I'd say perhaps 5, but I get the impression that there would still be a defence if there were 20.
He certainly made more than 10 mistakes.
Some referees have egos and like having the game about themselves, it makes them feel powerful. People can tell me that’s nonsense, people can also tell me that it’s nonsense that there are many who don’t understand and know the laws of the game, but I know for a fact that it’s true. Even my bloody mentor when I was starting out said the same to me.
We used to have some very good referees in football but now I see the standard so far below what it should, and used to, be that it’s also not acceptable to not be allowed to criticise their performances. In any other line of work, you’d have to justify your reasons for the decisions made to whoever that might be. It seems to me that doesn’t happen anymore in football.
All the while refs assess refs and refs check ref decisions things will not improve because it's always defend the ref first.
I've paid good money to go watch some Football not to watch players taking the piss by stopping the game where possible
Up there with Diving in my list of pet hates within the game
Whenever I’ve covered as a ref I make sure everyone knows I’m not a ref and I’ll do my best etc
as soon as the moaning starts I’m on it with offering the whistle to the moaner and asking if they’d like to do it . The half a dozen or so times it’s happened no one wants to be the ref and the moaning slows down big time .
I always get all my kids to thank the ref and umpire and remind them constantly there’s no game without them
and even if they’re wrong they’re right and their decision is final .
obviously higher up the game the refs are gonna have their mistakes churned and burned over but in years gone by this wouldn’t happen because the coverage and angles of everything wasn’t available , so literally everyone’s mind would have a different view of something controversial.
and with more scrutiny refs will appear to be worse , I don’t believe they are
One of the quickest change of mind's seen since Chukka Umunna