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# Can anyone help with this?

• Boy + shoes + double whatever that is in the newspaper. Although technically I'd argue that it's unanswerable, as we can only calculate the value of the pair of shoes. The value of each individual shoe is undefined.
• Quite a common question on social media, pops up in different scenarios every few months.

majority of people will say 40.

Usually followed by lots of people insisting its 40
That's because the answer is 40.
• No brackets in the question so surely BODMAS doesnt come into it.

Without then the question becomes 5+3×8 which is 40
• No brackets in the question so surely BODMAS doesnt come into it.

Without then the question becomes 5+3×8 which is 40
BODMAS always comes into play.
• aliwibble said:
Boy + shoes + double whatever that is in the newspaper. Although technically I'd argue that it's unanswerable, as we can only calculate the value of the pair of shoes. The value of each individual shoe is undefined.
That is correct. So it is 5+(5+10+2x2)x2=43

Although I did wonder about exactly what you said about the shoes. We only know a pair of shoes is 10. It could be 4 and 6 for each. Guess we just have to assume the shoes have equal value.

• No brackets in the question so surely BODMAS doesnt come into it.

Without then the question becomes 5+3×8 which is 40
BODMAS always comes into play.
I'm absolutely surprised there's even debate on BODMAS... This would never be a question in China. You have different maths rules in England?😂😂😂
• No disrespect but.... you (or some people) are arguing if it's 20 or 40?😂 Then not many can give the correct answer for this I assume😂😂😂 (was sent this by a colleague last week which had been on social media for some time obviously): 10+ 10 + 10 = 30
5 + 5 + 10 = 20
4 + 4 + 5 = 13
5 + (15 x 4) = 65

I think that's right...
• This is a sum my 8 year old would get at school and I can assure you the sum would be done in the order as seen and not using BODMAS.

Bodmas only comes into play at a higher level maths and should not be considered here.

• Carly = 20; Jessie = 30; Pauli = DMAS; 1 x Lung = There is only one kind of maths and that's the one that gives the correct answer. Little kids may be taught some watered-down version of this for simplicity's sake, but that doesn't make it right.
• Chizz said:
5 + 3 x 5 = 20.

You do the multiplying first.  So, you do 3 x 5 first (15).  Then you do the addition.  5 + 15.  20.
Why?
• No disrespect but.... you (or some people) are arguing if it's 20 or 40?😂 Then not many can give the correct answer for this I assume😂😂😂 (was sent this by a colleague last week which had been on social media for some time obviously): Three pairs of shoes = 30, so pair of shoes = 10.

Two person + 10 = 20, so two person = 10, so person = 5.

Two pair of cones + 5 = 13, so two pair of cones = 8, so pair of cones = 4.

If each shoe has the same value, shoe = 5.  If each cone has the same value and a cone at an angle is the same value as an upright, cone = 2.  So:
shoe + (person + pair of shoes + pair of cones) x cone = 5 + (5 + 10 + 4)  x 2
= 5 + 19 x 2
= 43.

However:
there's nothing to say the left and right shoes have the same value;
nothing to say a cone at an angle is the same value as upright cone;
nothing to say whether a person holding a pair of cones and wearing shoes is additive or multiplicative;
the person has a pair of shoes on but we can't see if they still have their socks on so don't know if they've lost the socks and therefore aren't worth 5 anymore.
• 6 x bags = That is the convention. The reason is that without the convention there is considerable ambiguity as to what the question is asking, with the convention it is absolutely clear - at least to anyone who follows the rules. With careful use of Bodmas and brackets, it is possible to write that expression so that it's meaning is absolutely precise. Without this convention, you have to guess what is required. Guessing is not mathematics.
• Oops, missed the double cones. Silly me.
• Chizz said:
5 + 3 x 5 = 20.

You do the multiplying first.  So, you do 3 x 5 first (15).  Then you do the addition.  5 + 15.  20.
Why?
Because that's the rules of maths.  It's known as BODMAS which stands for
Brackets
Order
Divide
Multiply
Subtract.

So (5 + 3) x 5 = 8 x 5 = 40.
5 + (3 x 5) = 5 + 15 = 20.
Both of these are clear because you do what's in the brackets first.

5 + 3 x 5 = 20 because, without the brackets, you do multiply before add.

Order is another way of saying 'to the power of', like 2 cubed, i.e. 2 to the power of 3 or 2 to third order.

There's a nice explanation here:
https://www.skillsyouneed.com/num/bodmas.html
• MrOneLung said:
This is a sum my 8 year old would get at school and I can assure you the sum would be done in the order as seen and not using BODMAS.

Bodmas only comes into play at a higher level maths and should not be considered here.
You need to see whoever's teaching your eight year old maths and tell them that BODMAS always applies.  How ridiculous is it to tell them 5 + 3 x 5 = 40 when they're eight but 20 when they're older?

• Chizz said:
5 + 3 x 5 = 20.

You do the multiplying first.  So, you do 3 x 5 first (15).  Then you do the addition.  5 + 15.  20.
Why?
Because that's the rules of maths.  It's known as BODMAS which stands for
Brackets
Order
Divide
Multiply
Subtract.

So (5 + 3) x 5 = 8 x 5 = 40.
5 + (3 x 5) = 5 + 15 = 20.
Both of these are clear because you do what's in the brackets first.

5 + 3 x 5 = 20 because, without the brackets, you do multiply before add.

Order is another way of saying 'to the power of', like 2 cubed, i.e. 2 to the power of 3 or 2 to third order.

There's a nice explanation here:
https://www.skillsyouneed.com/num/bodmas.html
Thanks AA, I genuinely didn't know.
I was being facetious with my comment.
I'm old and simple minded and work on the principle that anybody who messes with 2+2=5 must be a cnut. • MrOneLung said:
This is a sum my 8 year old would get at school and I can assure you the sum would be done in the order as seen and not using BODMAS.

Bodmas only comes into play at a higher level maths and should not be considered here.
You need to see whoever's teaching your eight year old maths and tell them that BODMAS always applies.  How ridiculous is it to tell them 5 + 3 x 5 = 40 when they're eight but 20 when they're older?
For info this was a child's activity sheet. The kind you get in Rip off restaurants just before they fleece you.
I managed to do the mystery maze after 7 attempts and reunited scooby with his snacks.
I am still having some trouble with the word search. But that is for another thread on another day.
Mind blown enough for one week!
• 3blokes said:
Anyone fancy a pint?

That question I can answer without any fear of getting it wrong.
• Stig said:
Oops, missed the double cones. Silly me.
Missed that and the single shoe. Shamed...….........