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Ranking the 92

I was having a debate I'm sure many of us have had before over the weekend. Where should we be? Are we a lower Premier league team? A mid-table Championship team? Or quite frankly should we just consider ourselves fortunate we're in the football league at all?

Personally I've always thought of us as a mid-table Championship side (somewhere between 7th and 16th). The two people I was having the discussion with (Villa and Tottenham fans) were both adamant they were top 6 Premier League clubs. 

But what does history, fan size and the trophy cabinet suggest? Over the past couple of days we've not done nearly enough work compiled the below list - far from agreed on all of them but it's as close to a consensus as we could manage.

I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on who is too high and who is too low.

1. Man Utd
2. Liverpool
3. Arsenal
4. Everton
5. Aston Villa
6. Tottenham
7. Chelsea
8. Man City
9. Newcastle
10. Leeds
11. Nottm Forest
12. Sunderland
13. Wolves
14. Sheff Wed
15. Huddersfield
16. Blackburn
17. Derby
18. Preston
19. West Ham
20. Ipswich
21. West Brom
22. Sheff Utd
23. Portsmouth
24. Burnley
25. Leicester
26. Birmingham
27. QPR
28. Fulham
29. Bolton
30. Norwich
31. Southampton
32. Charlton
33. Blackpool
34. Stoke
35. Coventry
36. Watford
37. Middlesbrough
38. Crystal Palace
39. Cardiff
40. Bury
41. Swansea
42. Brighton
43. Luton
44. Bradford 
45. Oxford
46. Bristol City
47. Millwall
48. Reading
49. AFC Wimbledon (Counted old Wimbledon history as well)
50. Oldham
51. Wigan
52. Barnsley
53. Brentford
54. Doncaster
55. Notts County
56. Peterborough
57. Plymouth
58. Swindon
59. Hull
60. Port Vale
61. Southend
62. Rotherham
63. Bristol Rovers
64. Bournemouth
65. Tranmere
66. Colchester
67. Cambridge
68. Crewe
69. Wycombe
70. Grimsby
71. Scunthorpe
72. Exeter
73. Walsall
74. Gillingham
75. Carlisle
76. Northampton
77. Lincoln
78. Shrewsbury
79. Yeovil
80. Newport
81. Rochdale
82. Accrington
83. Burton
84. Mansfield
85. MK Dons
86. Stevenage
87. Fleetwood
88. Cheltenham
89. Macclesfield
90. Crawley
91. Morecambe
92. Forest Green

Comments

  • My thoughts are you have plenty of time on your hands, so must be retired 😉

    These lists are always hard as there are so many aspects to consider and the importance one person applies to a category (away support / trophies for example) will be different to the next person).

    Ive never seen someone rate the full 92 though, so well done.
  • JohnBoyUK said:
    Can I just ask, for transparency, have you factored in the cheese room to your calculations for Tottenham Hotspur?
     :D No that wasn't factored in. TBH with Tottenham and Villa I let them argue it out. They both wanted to be above the other, however I think the European success for Villa got them the nod in the end.
  • A bit surprised Everton are as high as 4th. 
    10th would seem about right for them imo.
  • https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11373570/sky-sports-ultimate-league-201718-overachieving-and-underachieving-clubs-revealed

    Sky did something fairly similar for the last 50 years which I think is more realistic than factoring in FA Cup wins in 1897 or League wins in 1903 when a lot of clubs didn't exist. The Sky list thus has Southampton massively higher, but then they've been a top flight side for most of the last 40 years
  • A bit surprised Everton are as high as 4th. 
    10th would seem about right for them imo.
    We were all agreed on the top 4 pretty much straightaway given the history, fanbases and seasons in the top flight for those clubs. 

    Although we gave a little uplift for more recent success we tried not to let it push down clubs with great histories.

    Out of interest who would you have above them?
  •  NO#

    CLUBTITLES DETAILS
    1Manchester United 4220 League Titles,  12 FA Cups, 5 League Cups, 3 Champions League, 1 Europa League, 1 FIFA Club WC
    2Liverpool 4118 League Titles, 7 FA Cups, 8 League Cups, 5 European Title, 3 UEFA Cups
    3Arsenal 3013 League Titles, 13 FA Cups, 2 League Cups, 2 UEFA Cups
    4Chelsea226 League Titles, 7 FA Cups, 5 League Cups, 1 European Title., 3 UEFA Cups
    5Aston Villa207 League Titles, 7 FA Cups, 5 League Cups, 1 European Title
    6Everton159 League Titles, 5 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cups
    7Tottenham172 League Titles, 8 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 3 UEFA Cups
    8Man City 144 League titles, 5 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 1 UEFA Cup
    9Newcastle Utd 114 League, 6 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup
    10Sunderland86 League Titles, 2 FA Cups
    11    Blackburn 10       3 League Titles, 6 FA Cups, 1 league Cup
    12    Wolverhampton9       3 League Titles, 4 FA Cups, 2 League Cups
    13    Nottingham Forest9       1 League Title, 2 FA Cup, 4 League Cups, 2 European Title
    14    Sheffield Wed 8       4 League Titles, 1 FA Cup, 3 League Cup
    15    Leeds United7       3 League Title, 1 FA Cup, 1 League Cup, 2 UEFA Cup
    16    West Brom7       1 League, 5 FA Cups, 1 League Cup
    17    Huddersfield4       3 League titles, 1 FA Cup
    18    Sheffield United 5       1 League title, 4 FA Cup
    19    Portsmouth4       2 League titles, 2 FA Cup
    20    Preston4       2 League titles, 2 FA Cup
    21    Burnley 3       2 League titles, 1 FA Cup
    22    Derby3

           2 League titles, 1 FA Cup

    Not current of course but the above is a historical ranking based on trophies won.
  • edited February 2019
     I worked out Charlton's average league position a couple of years back, and I think it was around the 30th mark.
  • edited February 2019
    JamesSeed said:
     I worked out Charlton's average league position a couple of years back, and I think it was around the 30th mark.
    As at 2015
    CLUBS RANKED BY AVERAGE LEAGUE FINISH
    RankClubAverage finishYears in league
    1Liverpool8.26110
    2Arsenal8.78110
    3Everton9.71115
    4Manchester United10.42111
    5Aston Villa11.27115
    6Tottenham Hotspur12.495
    7Chelsea13.6698
    8Newcastle United14.17110
    9Manchester City14.23111
    10Sunderland15.46113
    11West Bromich Albion17.89115
    12Leeds United18.9987
    13West Ham United1988
    14Blackburn Rovers19.12115
    15Derby County20.11115
    16Wolverhampton Wanderers20.65115
    17Middlesbrough20.76104
    18Bolton Wanderers20.77115
    19Sheffield Wednesday 21.05111
    20Sheffield United21.63111
    21Birmingham City 22.32111
    22Stoke City23107
    23Nottingham Forest23.07111
    24Leicester City23.17109
    25Burnley27.06115
    26Southampton27.7587
    27Ipswich Town 29.869
    28Preston North End29.89115
    29Portsmouth31.0287
    30Huddersfield Town33.693
    31Charlton Athletic34.0686
    32Fulham34.1596
    33Blackpool35.05106
    34Coventry City37.0888
    35Norwich City41.287
    36Notts County42.17115
    37Cardiff City42.4387
    38Barnsley42.63105
    39Hull City43.4398
    40Queens Park Rangers43.4887
    41Luton Town43.5885
    42Oldham Athletic44.1796
    43Bury44.24109
    44Bristol City45.33102
    45Crystal Palace46.2887
    46Wigan Athletic48.536
    47Bradford City50.02100
    48Millwall50.2187
    49Swansea City50.9287
    50Oxford United52.5248
    51Watford53.1187
    52Reading55.7887
    53Leyton Orient 56.4498
    54Brighton and Hove Albion57.1787
    55Brentford58.187
    56Carlisle United59.2778
    57Swindon Town6087
    58Northampton Town72.7487
    59AFC Wimbledon86.673


    Proof, if needed, that we are indeed South London's Number 1 :)

  • JamesSeed said:
     I worked out Charlton's average league position a couple of years back, and I think it was around the 30th mark.
    Glad my thinking of a mid-table Championship side was about right then.
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  • West Ham 19th is a wild call! But I guess, seeing as they're our rivals, or something
  • the average league position of last 50 years (as at end of 2017/18 seasons)

    I am not sure what the +/- column refers to.




  • bobmunro said:
    JamesSeed said:
     I worked out Charlton's average league position a couple of years back, and I think it was around the 30th mark.
    As at 2015
    CLUBS RANKED BY AVERAGE LEAGUE FINISH
    RankClubAverage finishYears in league
    1Liverpool8.26110
    2Arsenal8.78110
    3Everton9.71115
    4Manchester United10.42111
    5Aston Villa11.27115
    6Tottenham Hotspur12.495
    7Chelsea13.6698
    8Newcastle United14.17110
    9Manchester City14.23111
    10Sunderland15.46113
    11West Bromich Albion17.89115
    12Leeds United18.9987
    13West Ham United1988
    14Blackburn Rovers19.12115
    15Derby County20.11115
    16Wolverhampton Wanderers20.65115
    17Middlesbrough20.76104
    18Bolton Wanderers20.77115
    19Sheffield Wednesday 21.05111
    20Sheffield United21.63111
    21Birmingham City 22.32111
    22Stoke City23107
    23Nottingham Forest23.07111
    24Leicester City23.17109
    25Burnley27.06115
    26Southampton27.7587
    27Ipswich Town 29.869
    28Preston North End29.89115
    29Portsmouth31.0287
    30Huddersfield Town33.693
    31Charlton Athletic34.0686
    32Fulham34.1596
    33Blackpool35.05106
    34Coventry City37.0888
    35Norwich City41.287
    36Notts County42.17115
    37Cardiff City42.4387
    38Barnsley42.63105
    39Hull City43.4398
    40Queens Park Rangers43.4887
    41Luton Town43.5885
    42Oldham Athletic44.1796
    43Bury44.24109
    44Bristol City45.33102
    45Crystal Palace46.2887
    46Wigan Athletic48.536
    47Bradford City50.02100
    48Millwall50.2187
    49Swansea City50.9287
    50Oxford United52.5248
    51Watford53.1187
    52Reading55.7887
    53Leyton Orient 56.4498
    54Brighton and Hove Albion57.1787
    55Brentford58.187
    56Carlisle United59.2778
    57Swindon Town6087
    58Northampton Town72.7487
    59AFC Wimbledon86.673

    Looking at that Middlesbrough could be way too low on our list then. 
  • Leuth said:
    West Ham 19th is a wild call! But I guess, seeing as they're our rivals, or something
    We tried to be as neutral as possible but having a Charlton and Tottenham fan on the panel probably didn't help them. I guess there's a lack of league titles based on those above.
  • MrOneLung said:
    the average league position of last 50 years (as at end of 2017/18 seasons)

    I am not sure what the +/- column refers to.




    Just refers to the difference from actual position.

    Example, Charlton are ranked 30th on the overall, all time table. But in 17/18 we finished 50th of the 92. hence -20

  • How can Fulham and QPR be above us - what have they ever done that we haven't?
  • https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11373570/sky-sports-ultimate-league-201718-overachieving-and-underachieving-clubs-revealed

    Sky did something fairly similar for the last 50 years which I think is more realistic than factoring in FA Cup wins in 1897 or League wins in 1903 when a lot of clubs didn't exist. The Sky list thus has Southampton massively higher, but then they've been a top flight side for most of the last 40 years
    Sky actually did something that acknowledged that football existed before the Premier League?!?
  • Right now, I'd say we are 49th or 50th if you reckon Doncaster will win their games in hand. That's the reality.
  • https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11373570/sky-sports-ultimate-league-201718-overachieving-and-underachieving-clubs-revealed

    Sky did something fairly similar for the last 50 years which I think is more realistic than factoring in FA Cup wins in 1897 or League wins in 1903 when a lot of clubs didn't exist. The Sky list thus has Southampton massively higher, but then they've been a top flight side for most of the last 40 years

    Not sure about that list. I guess it proves that palace have done better league postion wise over the years but that list doesn't reflect how big a team is. You could never say palace are bigger than wolves, Birmingham, Portsmouth and both Sheffield clubs. 
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  • As long as history says we are above Palace and Millwall I really couldn't care less!
  • Good job it's not based upon cup form. We must be about 70th based on that despite the immediate post-War aberration.
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Roland Out!