I feel very strange posting this as i'd normally just ignore the thread, but seeing that mart77 and Sco have nailed their colours to the wall/ mast ( whatever it is!)
This thread was just below the one on Monkey chants at the England U21 game. Oh the irony.
There was a time when such chants were common place at English league grounds and Mannings type of "humour" was considered acceptable. Thankfully neither is now the case.
Saw Manning on a chat show with Clive Anderson when Manning defended his "jokes" on the grounds that "there were no "pakis" on the beaches in Normandy". Charming. Overlooked the 3.5m people from the sub-continent who fought the Japanese including the Gurkhas and all those that fought in north Africa and Italy.
Racism still exists in modern day comedy i'm afraid, maybe its not as crazy and upfront as Manning but it still exists.
Ricky Gervais is one example, in The Office and Extras (which i love), there is obvious racism which is hidden behind characters, therefore detaching himself away from the comments.
Another example would be that of someone like Chris Rock who is very racist in his shows.
I'm sure it exists in many other acts as well.
Manning did not adapt his show with the times and this is his own fault i agree but to think racism in mainstream comedy does not exist today is very naive.
Don't like Chris Rock's material either, even if like Manning, he is a good technical comedian.
As for the Office (didn't watch Extras much) the prejudices of the characters are the thing being sent up and ridiculed much in the same way that happened with the views of Alf Garnet. The racists are the one's being laughed at.
I don't wish the man dead or take any pleasure in his passing. No man is an island and all that but having seen him express his views, not just tell some jokes, I think the words Mart used sum it up.
"Niggas vs. Black People" is the title of one of Chris Rock's most famous and most controversial comedy routines. This bit, which appeared as track 12 on his 1997 album, Roll With the New, as well as his 1996 HBO special, Bring the Pain, is widely considered to be the breakthrough routine that established his status as a permanent comedy fixture after he left Saturday Night Live.
Essentially an eight-minute rant about behaviors that Rock sees within the black community; he describes "niggas" as a certain cohort whose behavior is usually detrimental to the image of other black people and embody many African-American stereotypes. He describes the condition succinctly as being a "low-expectation-havin' motherfucker." The "niggas," he said, glorify ignorance and sloth, and show excessive pride for any bearing of token responsibility. Rock rejects the view that this image of African-Americans is purely cultivated by the media. In fact, he goes as far as to defend this point within the routine:
'Now, I see some black people looking at me: "Man, why you gotta say that? Why you gotta say that - it ain't us, it's the media. It ain't us, it's the media. The media has distorted our image to make us look bad, why must you come down on us like that, brother? It ain't us, it's the media." Please, cut the fucking shit, okay. Okay? Okay? When I go to the money machine tonight, alright, I ain't looking over my back for the media: I'm looking for niggas!'
The controversy caused by Rock's constant use of the word nigga led him to remove the piece from his act, although the word was prominent in both of his subsequent specials. In a 60 Minutes interview, Rock said, "By the way, I've never done that joke again, ever, and I probably never will. 'Cause some people that were racist thought they had license to say nigger. So, I'm done with that routine." In the course of the routine, Rock's tone alternates between sarcastic glee at the idea of joining the Ku Klux Klan, and rage at people who refuse to educate themselves. Chris Rock has also been accused of racism against whites for this routine, when he joked that America is also filled with "broke-ass white people" who have sex with their siblings.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]You should watch it on YouTube WSS, then you'll get it.
May well do it but i'd rather not get into the whole "if you're black its ok to say stuff" argument.
Just to make a point, i'm no way defending Manning and his views, they outrage me but racism is and always will be a point of reference for comedians in one way shape or form (just like sexism etc etc)
rothko what you on about? chris rock is blatently racist in his stand up.. so is manning.. i think both are perfectly acceptable... free speech is a great thing and if you dont like it then dont watch it.. simple as.....
i don't agree with anything that come out his mouth, as i don't with virtually all comedians. But that doesn't mean they can't deliver it in a funny way. Manning was out of date for a while because he was an old man who couldn't / wouldn't change his act, and he didn't really know any different. He comes from a time when this angle was an acceptable part of society. In hindsight, you can see it was wrong.
With knowledge and progression we've learnt that this type of humour is unacceptable and wrong. The traditional stand up has been replaced by the arty ex-graduate, which the media and everyone finds so observationally witty. Yet its perfectly acceptable for these types to make jokes of horrific events such as 9/11, London bombings, Diana and other high profile deaths.....
Anyway, please don't turn this into a racism debate.
[quote][cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Bernard Manning was racist and he was also a nasty vindictive b'stard.
He was funny though.
Strange world innit.[/quote]
Take the humour away and what have you got? A man telling jokes that back up his ill thought out prejudices, or if you prefer someone who relied on the lowest common denominator, and in his case racist jokes. Look at the people though who lapped up his "humour", they are the ones you need to worry about, Manning fed their prejucices while giving voice to his own.
I dare say he's currently discovering that hell is an equal opportunity employer.
there are plenty of comediens in this day and age that don't use shock tactics to get a laugh. i went to the comedy store a while back (do a search on here and find the comments) and there were 3 of 4 comedians at least that made jokes on human behaviour, no shock tactics and playing a racial, predudice shock tactic to get a laugh.
Bernard Manning took the piss out of anybody and everybody. And it was generally funny until suddenly YOU were the butt of his jokes.
But he did it so consistently, so religiously and so thoroughly that it would be difficult if impossible to know what the man behind the act was truly thinking.
Exactly what are comedians allowed to make fun of in this day and age?
Comments
RIP
although when i read this, i did think it was the turkey bloke. always got confused with those two.
RIP Appropriate for a comment like this to make me laugh out loud on a thread about a funny guy.
LOL that would of been boootiful
I'm with you guys.
:-(
There was a time when such chants were common place at English league grounds and Mannings type of "humour" was considered acceptable. Thankfully neither is now the case.
Saw Manning on a chat show with Clive Anderson when Manning defended his "jokes" on the grounds that "there were no "pakis" on the beaches in Normandy". Charming. Overlooked the 3.5m people from the sub-continent who fought the Japanese including the Gurkhas and all those that fought in north Africa and Italy.
I'd rather a person didn't have to die for that to be a statistic.
Ricky Gervais is one example, in The Office and Extras (which i love), there is obvious racism which is hidden behind characters, therefore detaching himself away from the comments.
Another example would be that of someone like Chris Rock who is very racist in his shows.
I'm sure it exists in many other acts as well.
Manning did not adapt his show with the times and this is his own fault i agree but to think racism in mainstream comedy does not exist today is very naive.
As for the Office (didn't watch Extras much) the prejudices of the characters are the thing being sent up and ridiculed much in the same way that happened with the views of Alf Garnet. The racists are the one's being laughed at.
I don't wish the man dead or take any pleasure in his passing. No man is an island and all that but having seen him express his views, not just tell some jokes, I think the words Mart used sum it up.
However I find the "thought police" reaction of some to his death just as repugnant if not more so.
Like it or not he had a place in British comedy and deserves respect for that even if he does not deserve affection.
That is my one and only comment on this subject.
"Niggas vs. Black People" is the title of one of Chris Rock's most famous and most controversial comedy routines. This bit, which appeared as track 12 on his 1997 album, Roll With the New, as well as his 1996 HBO special, Bring the Pain, is widely considered to be the breakthrough routine that established his status as a permanent comedy fixture after he left Saturday Night Live.
Essentially an eight-minute rant about behaviors that Rock sees within the black community; he describes "niggas" as a certain cohort whose behavior is usually detrimental to the image of other black people and embody many African-American stereotypes. He describes the condition succinctly as being a "low-expectation-havin' motherfucker." The "niggas," he said, glorify ignorance and sloth, and show excessive pride for any bearing of token responsibility. Rock rejects the view that this image of African-Americans is purely cultivated by the media. In fact, he goes as far as to defend this point within the routine:
'Now, I see some black people looking at me: "Man, why you gotta say that? Why you gotta say that - it ain't us, it's the media. It ain't us, it's the media. The media has distorted our image to make us look bad, why must you come down on us like that, brother? It ain't us, it's the media." Please, cut the fucking shit, okay. Okay? Okay? When I go to the money machine tonight, alright, I ain't looking over my back for the media: I'm looking for niggas!'
The controversy caused by Rock's constant use of the word nigga led him to remove the piece from his act, although the word was prominent in both of his subsequent specials. In a 60 Minutes interview, Rock said, "By the way, I've never done that joke again, ever, and I probably never will. 'Cause some people that were racist thought they had license to say nigger. So, I'm done with that routine." In the course of the routine, Rock's tone alternates between sarcastic glee at the idea of joining the Ku Klux Klan, and rage at people who refuse to educate themselves. Chris Rock has also been accused of racism against whites for this routine, when he joked that America is also filled with "broke-ass white people" who have sex with their siblings.
Just to make a point, i'm no way defending Manning and his views, they outrage me but racism is and always will be a point of reference for comedians in one way shape or form (just like sexism etc etc)
His stuff offended everybody, but he literally didn't give a sh*t.
With knowledge and progression we've learnt that this type of humour is unacceptable and wrong. The traditional stand up has been replaced by the arty ex-graduate, which the media and everyone finds so observationally witty. Yet its perfectly acceptable for these types to make jokes of horrific events such as 9/11, London bombings, Diana and other high profile deaths.....
Anyway, please don't turn this into a racism debate.
He was funny though.
Strange world innit.
He was funny though.
Strange world innit.[/quote]
Take the humour away and what have you got? A man telling jokes that back up his ill thought out prejudices, or if you prefer someone who relied on the lowest common denominator, and in his case racist jokes. Look at the people though who lapped up his "humour", they are the ones you need to worry about, Manning fed their prejucices while giving voice to his own.
I dare say he's currently discovering that hell is an equal opportunity employer.
Irony...
they're the talented ones.
But he did it so consistently, so religiously and so thoroughly that it would be difficult if impossible to know what the man behind the act was truly thinking.
Exactly what are comedians allowed to make fun of in this day and age?