For me it isn't. Lets keep jobs by staying in the EU and lose jobs that support evil regimes like Saudi Arabia. Don't tell me about the real world, it makes you look arrogant! We clearly disagree but you are not always right, as I admit I am not.
You are happy to back someone who supports Iran, Hamas and various other terrorists but four years into the war in Yemen you suddenly want to sanction Saudi Arabia. Usual suspects, usual double standards.
This incident and similar misdeeds by Russia (and who knows what else has happened/is happening around the world in nations both 'friendly' and 'unfriendly') is reminiscent of (e.g.) Tudor and Stuart England where if you were unlucky enough to be deemed a traitor or heretic you were sentenced to death by hanging, drawing and quartering or to be burnt at the stake after a spell of torture possibly on the rack or with hot irons .. if you were lucky you were simply beheaded .. thank the lord for trial by jury and not arrest and a sentence of death at the whim of an absolute monarch or dictator
They are beheading people left right and centre in that country. A lot of the IS funding came from/coming from there too. I'd rather not hold my nose and tell them to go and do one!
As long as Western governments sell arms to dodgy governments knowing full well what they do with them they can't really be surprised when this stuff happens. It's all a bit awkward but it will soon be forgotten about. If Saudi wealth dried up I imagine we might be a little more critical.
A lot of politicians do well from conflict in the Middle East - the Bush family and Haliburton did very well out of the Iraq war. There has to be a little conflict of interest between making money for your business interests through having a war and trying to achieve peace.
As long as Western governments sell arms to dodgy governments knowing full well what they do with them they can't really be surprised when this stuff happens. It's all a bit awkward but it will soon be forgotten about. If Saudi wealth dried up I imagine we might be a little more critical.
A lot of politicians do well from conflict in the Middle East - the Bush family and Haliburton did very well out of the Iraq war. There has to be a little conflict of interest between making money for your business interests through having a war and trying to achieve peace.
So what happened to their evidence of him leaving the embassy?
RIP
Surprisingly an evangelical leader like Pat Robertson would not like to risk the billions of dollars over people’s lives. Who knew Jesus loved the dollar so much?
As long as Western governments sell arms to dodgy governments knowing full well what they do with them they can't really be surprised when this stuff happens. It's all a bit awkward but it will soon be forgotten about. If Saudi wealth dried up I imagine we might be a little more critical.
A lot of politicians do well from conflict in the Middle East - the Bush family and Haliburton did very well out of the Iraq war. There has to be a little conflict of interest between making money for your business interests through having a war and trying to achieve peace.
I doubt we sold them the saw that cut up his body
To be fair I doubt the full story about his death will ever come out.
Trump will presumably accept anything they say and probably end up blaming Kashoggi himself.
As long as Western governments sell arms to dodgy governments knowing full well what they do with them they can't really be surprised when this stuff happens. It's all a bit awkward but it will soon be forgotten about. If Saudi wealth dried up I imagine we might be a little more critical.
A lot of politicians do well from conflict in the Middle East - the Bush family and Haliburton did very well out of the Iraq war. There has to be a little conflict of interest between making money for your business interests through having a war and trying to achieve peace.
I doubt we sold them the saw that cut up his body
To be fair I doubt the full story about his death will ever come out.
Trump will presumably accept anything they say and probably end up blaming Kashoggi himself.
You’ll be surprised to know that some news commentators have already started that particular line of thought for example, Fox News presenters saying he was friendly with the Muslim brotherhood.
No mention of where Kashgoggi’s body is or what happened to the Saudi claims that Kashgoggi left the building. It appears that Mike Pompeo’s US foreign secretary visit was more about cooking up an excuse that Trump could pass off as acceptable then holding the Saudis to account.
2 weeks on and the best they can come up with is a 'fistfight'.
And given that those involved are the Saudi prince's closest aides, it doesn't exactly do much to disprove the idea that the prince knew exactly what had gone on. Trump must also know that the prince completely lied to him as he said a week ago that they'd discussed it on the phone and the prince denied all knowledge of anything to do with Khashoggi.
Why don't Turkey just release the audio footage they supposedly have of him being cut to pieces? I wonder what demands they are making to Riyadh in order to stop them releasing it to the world.
I find it amazing how anyone can have a pop at Corbyn for his views but is then happy to turn a blind eye to our actual PM, Theresa May, doing business with them and keeping very quiet on the Kashoggi situation, all because they hate Corbybn. Ridiculous.
straw man if i've ever seen it.
Everyone on this thread is condemning the kashoggi situation and saudi arabia. The point is what saudi arabia is doing and other arab nations is arguably worse than the government of israel is doing.
The original point was that you are anti semitic if you hold israel to a different standard than anyone else.
So I've only made it about halfway through this thread, but a very important counter-point to this is that Israel is a significantly closer ally to Britain and the US than any other country in the region.
In the same way that you would hold, say, France to a different standard than Bulgaria, or in our case say Canada versus Spain, so too might you hold Israel to a different standard as they are such a huge ally.
That's not to say there isn't anti-semitism when it comes to Israel. But when your defense of assassinating protestors is "look at what other countries do," that's not a good defense.
Having lived in NJ and being there across the river from NYC on 9/11 like most people could never figure out how come 19 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia yet we went and bombed Afghanistan and the fucking Saudi's got a free pass.
Having lived in NJ and being there across the river from NYC on 9/11 like most people could never figure out how come 19 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia yet we went and bombed Afghanistan and the fucking Saudi's got a free pass.
A lot of western politicians seem to put loyalty to Saudi ahead of everything else. The war on terror has always been f***ing ridiculous given that the Saudis who seem to fund a large part of it are never held to account.
Having lived in NJ and being there across the river from NYC on 9/11 like most people could never figure out how come 19 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia yet we went and bombed Afghanistan and the fucking Saudi's got a free pass.
One only needs to play Google for half an hour to get a feel for the Khashoggi back story, including his in depth knowledge of 9/11.
Not for me to paste links but it's not hard to find how his relationship with Saudi Arabia evolved. And read his critique of MbS in his regular columns for the Washington Post.
Ive also read that Trump refused to process Kashoggi's papers in US and worked with Saudi's to ensure he had to go to Turkey as per their request.
This is a very serious charge and other than non-reliable, non-mainstream sources, I see nothing credible to back that claim. If it did turn out to be true, I would consider it a "high crime" and thus an impeachable offense.
I do think there is a lot of hypocrisy in the USA by the Left, on this issue (we already know there is plenty on the Right.) After all, very conservative estimates are that 300+ innocent civilian children and over 1000+ total innocent civilians were killed by drone-bombings alone, by Obama in his 8 years. All done in sovereign territory of other so-called "Allies" and without any proper declaration of war or even admittance of such activity most of the time. Where were the Left's boycotts, then? Now, with one dead Turk in non-sovereign territory, suddenly everyone is up in arms. 300+. This irks me.
As long as Western governments sell arms to dodgy governments knowing full well what they do with them they can't really be surprised when this stuff happens. It's all a bit awkward but it will soon be forgotten about. If Saudi wealth dried up I imagine we might be a little more critical.
A lot of politicians do well from conflict in the Middle East - the Bush family and Haliburton did very well out of the Iraq war. There has to be a little conflict of interest between making money for your business interests through having a war and trying to achieve peace.
I do think there is a lot of hypocrisy in the USA by the Left, on this issue (we already know there is plenty on the Right.) After all, very conservative estimates are that 300+ innocent civilian children and over 1000+ total innocent civilians were killed by drone-bombings alone, by Obama in his 8 years. All done in sovereign territory of other so-called "Allies" and without any proper declaration of war or even admittance of such activity most of the time. Where were the Left's boycotts, then? Now, with one dead Turk in non-sovereign territory, suddenly everyone is up in arms. 300+. This irks me.
Not really sure what your point is? I thought we were discussing an attack by the Saudis not by the US? If people in the US were condemning US attacks who would they be boycotting - maybe their own country?
You could at least get the dead journalist's nationality right rather than call him a 'dead Turk'.
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A lot of politicians do well from conflict in the Middle East - the Bush family and Haliburton did very well out of the Iraq war. There has to be a little conflict of interest between making money for your business interests through having a war and trying to achieve peace.
So what happened to their evidence of him leaving the embassy?
RIP
Trump will presumably accept anything they say and probably end up blaming Kashoggi himself.
However, it would be true to say thar, if he had a wife, none of this would have happened.
RIP to a courageous journalist - the sort of person we need more of, not fewer.
And given that those involved are the Saudi prince's closest aides, it doesn't exactly do much to disprove the idea that the prince knew exactly what had gone on. Trump must also know that the prince completely lied to him as he said a week ago that they'd discussed it on the phone and the prince denied all knowledge of anything to do with Khashoggi.
Why don't Turkey just release the audio footage they supposedly have of him being cut to pieces? I wonder what demands they are making to Riyadh in order to stop them releasing it to the world.
In the same way that you would hold, say, France to a different standard than Bulgaria, or in our case say Canada versus Spain, so too might you hold Israel to a different standard as they are such a huge ally.
That's not to say there isn't anti-semitism when it comes to Israel. But when your defense of assassinating protestors is "look at what other countries do," that's not a good defense.
Not for me to paste links but it's not hard to find how his relationship with Saudi Arabia evolved. And read his critique of MbS in his regular columns for the Washington Post.
You could at least get the dead journalist's nationality right rather than call him a 'dead Turk'.