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Premier League Division Two

This old chestnut is being kicked around again. The Leeds owner is calling for this as he reckons life in the Championship is not sustainable.
As it stands I could not imagine the Premier League parting with a single pound. If they had a mouth full of gumboils they would not give you one.
Unless of course there is some kind of trade off that would appeal to them. Something along the lines of go along with this and we could change the rules so only one team could be relegated from Division Two. As a large proportion of the top tier will be fighting relegation at some stage of their lives, it could be a decent
safeguard against it happening again if it comes to the worst.
That is just one scenario; however, I can see the structure changing at some point, maybe not for the good of many.

Comments

  • Would never surprise me if Premier League Two happened with promotion / relegation solely between the two and the Football League being a completely separate entity

    Kind of like how the Women's setup is now where you have to be elected
  • Would never surprise me if Premier League Two happened with promotion / relegation solely between the two and the Football League being a completely separate entity

    Kind of like how the Women's setup is now where you have to be elected

    That would be very worrying; however, like you it would not surprise me either.
  • Would never surprise me if Premier League Two happened with promotion / relegation solely between the two and the Football League being a completely separate entity

    Kind of like how the Women's setup is now where you have to be elected

    Yep - my view too.

    However, eventually there will be a slew of clubs at the bottom of Div 2 who are cannon fodder. By January every year they will have nothing to play for, and with no relegation to fight against, watch the crowds diminish...

    The only answer would be something akin to the US draft system, where the worst team gets the best new players in order to give them a chance to go up the rankings. As we don't have a college system and the biggest clubs are never going to give up any cash to boost the little clubs, it'll end in tears.
  • What's the point in just changing the name to something that doesn't make sense. It's not exactly premier if there's a 2 after it. Not sure I understand this
  • No chance of any material change. Apart from anything else, I can't see ANY incentive for the Premier League itself to dilute its brand, when it's so massively successful around the world.
  • I'd like to think that if there was a split off and there was a PL 2 that we would be a team considered for election, based on the ground, history in the past 25 years and potential or growth within London
  • Would never surprise me if Premier League Two happened with promotion / relegation solely between the two and the Football League being a completely separate entity

    Kind of like how the Women's setup is now where you have to be elected

    Yep - my view too.

    However, eventually there will be a slew of clubs at the bottom of Div 2 who are cannon fodder. By January every year they will have nothing to play for, and with no relegation to fight against, watch the crowds diminish...

    The only answer would be something akin to the US draft system, where the worst team gets the best new players in order to give them a chance to go up the rankings. As we don't have a college system and the biggest clubs are never going to give up any cash to boost the little clubs, it'll end in tears.
    I've always thought this would be a good idea by adopting the US College versions... Do away with clubs having their own Youth Academies and bring in scholarships to play... Means the kids get a chance to have a good Education by going to Univesity and have something good to fall back on should their career fail - Of course once their University career ends they can then enter a draft system (again like what happens in the US to stop the big clubs always getting the best players)

    Unfortunately that wouldnt be an overhaul of the Football system yet Sport as a whole in this country so would never happen - Its also a problem in the sense that clubs will be unable to sign English kids until at least the age of 21 (?) yet will be able to sign kids from abroad from a lot earlier

    With regards to the crowd issues... the recent stats show that clubs can easily survive without crowds so think they're at the point already where they dont really care if they get a full stadium
  • Would never surprise me if Premier League Two happened with promotion / relegation solely between the two and the Football League being a completely separate entity

    Kind of like how the Women's setup is now where you have to be elected

    Yep - my view too.

    However, eventually there will be a slew of clubs at the bottom of Div 2 who are cannon fodder. By January every year they will have nothing to play for, and with no relegation to fight against, watch the crowds diminish...

    The only answer would be something akin to the US draft system, where the worst team gets the best new players in order to give them a chance to go up the rankings. As we don't have a college system and the biggest clubs are never going to give up any cash to boost the little clubs, it'll end in tears.
    I've always thought this would be a good idea by adopting the US College versions... Do away with clubs having their own Youth Academies and bring in scholarships to play... Means the kids get a chance to have a good Education by going to Univesity and have something good to fall back on should their career fail - Of course once their University career ends they can then enter a draft system (again like what happens in the US to stop the big clubs always getting the best players)

    Unfortunately that wouldnt be an overhaul of the Football system yet Sport as a whole in this country so would never happen - Its also a problem in the sense that clubs will be unable to sign English kids until at least the age of 21 (?) yet will be able to sign kids from abroad from a lot earlier

    With regards to the crowd issues... the recent stats show that clubs can easily survive without crowds so think they're at the point already where they dont really care if they get a full stadium
    The ones at the bottom of Div 2 are not going to get anywhere near the TV cash the greedy ones do though FA. Again the only way for it to work would be what you suggest, or totally equal division of all income. That ain't gonna happen. And of course passionate crowds are part of the spectacle too.
  • sam3110 said:

    I'd like to think that if there was a split off and there was a PL 2 that we would be a team considered for election, based on the ground, history in the past 25 years and potential or growth within London

    Yeah can definitely see Millwall getting elected over us!!
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  • Would never surprise me if Premier League Two happened with promotion / relegation solely between the two and the Football League being a completely separate entity

    Kind of like how the Women's setup is now where you have to be elected

    Yep - my view too.

    However, eventually there will be a slew of clubs at the bottom of Div 2 who are cannon fodder. By January every year they will have nothing to play for, and with no relegation to fight against, watch the crowds diminish...

    The only answer would be something akin to the US draft system, where the worst team gets the best new players in order to give them a chance to go up the rankings. As we don't have a college system and the biggest clubs are never going to give up any cash to boost the little clubs, it'll end in tears.
    I've always thought this would be a good idea by adopting the US College versions... Do away with clubs having their own Youth Academies and bring in scholarships to play... Means the kids get a chance to have a good Education by going to Univesity and have something good to fall back on should their career fail - Of course once their University career ends they can then enter a draft system (again like what happens in the US to stop the big clubs always getting the best players)

    Unfortunately that wouldnt be an overhaul of the Football system yet Sport as a whole in this country so would never happen - Its also a problem in the sense that clubs will be unable to sign English kids until at least the age of 21 (?) yet will be able to sign kids from abroad from a lot earlier

    With regards to the crowd issues... the recent stats show that clubs can easily survive without crowds so think they're at the point already where they dont really care if they get a full stadium
    The ones at the bottom of Div 2 are not going to get anywhere near the TV cash the greedy ones do though FA. Again the only way for it to work would be what you suggest, or totally equal division of all income. That ain't gonna happen. And of course passionate crowds are part of the spectacle too.
    Is another reason to completely overhaul Football... Replace all Leagues (not just in England) with the US College based system

    When a Player then signs on the Draft System there are a number of conditions that have to be met

    (1) The draft starts at the bottom with Macclesfield and Tranmere (the lowest clubs this season) getting the first picks unless deals are done
    (2) A players contract has to be for four years... Gives Macclesfield etc. a chance to get into the Premier League with that player
    (3) Transfers are done away with, players can only move clubs once their Contract is up (after that four year period it can be for any length of time)

    Of course because Football is governed by the big clubs (How can AC Milan have a say when they've not been at the top table for a number of years now, or Man City have more of a say that anyone else when they were in League One only 20-years ago) anything like this will never change and in the same vein wouldnt be surprised if one day we saw Football turning into a complete City type Franchise; instead of getting Man City v Man Utd it would be Manchester v Beijing or London v Madrid, part of me just wants them to get on with it and bugger of so proper club Football for Charlton can get on with what we love
  • Would never surprise me if Premier League Two happened with promotion / relegation solely between the two and the Football League being a completely separate entity

    Kind of like how the Women's setup is now where you have to be elected

    Yep - my view too.

    However, eventually there will be a slew of clubs at the bottom of Div 2 who are cannon fodder. By January every year they will have nothing to play for, and with no relegation to fight against, watch the crowds diminish...

    The only answer would be something akin to the US draft system, where the worst team gets the best new players in order to give them a chance to go up the rankings. As we don't have a college system and the biggest clubs are never going to give up any cash to boost the little clubs, it'll end in tears.
    I've always thought this would be a good idea by adopting the US College versions... Do away with clubs having their own Youth Academies and bring in scholarships to play... Means the kids get a chance to have a good Education by going to Univesity and have something good to fall back on should their career fail - Of course once their University career ends they can then enter a draft system (again like what happens in the US to stop the big clubs always getting the best players)

    Unfortunately that wouldnt be an overhaul of the Football system yet Sport as a whole in this country so would never happen - Its also a problem in the sense that clubs will be unable to sign English kids until at least the age of 21 (?) yet will be able to sign kids from abroad from a lot earlier

    With regards to the crowd issues... the recent stats show that clubs can easily survive without crowds so think they're at the point already where they dont really care if they get a full stadium
    The ones at the bottom of Div 2 are not going to get anywhere near the TV cash the greedy ones do though FA. Again the only way for it to work would be what you suggest, or totally equal division of all income. That ain't gonna happen. And of course passionate crowds are part of the spectacle too.
    Is another reason to completely overhaul Football... Replace all Leagues (not just in England) with the US College based system

    When a Player then signs on the Draft System there are a number of conditions that have to be met

    (1) The draft starts at the bottom with Macclesfield and Tranmere (the lowest clubs this season) getting the first picks unless deals are done
    (2) A players contract has to be for four years... Gives Macclesfield etc. a chance to get into the Premier League with that player
    (3) Transfers are done away with, players can only move clubs once their Contract is up (after that four year period it can be for any length of time)

    Of course because Football is governed by the big clubs (How can AC Milan have a say when they've not been at the top table for a number of years now, or Man City have more of a say that anyone else when they were in League One only 20-years ago) anything like this will never change and in the same vein wouldnt be surprised if one day we saw Football turning into a complete City type Franchise; instead of getting Man City v Man Utd it would be Manchester v Beijing or London v Madrid, part of me just wants them to get on with it and bugger of so proper club Football for Charlton can get on with what we love
    Absolutely agreee. I said when the Premier league started that all the rest should have said okay, off you go. The no relegation thing would have killed it off there and then - for the reasons I gave earlier - especially as at that point the clubs really did need the crowds. No interleague cup games either.
  • Would never surprise me if Premier League Two happened with promotion / relegation solely between the two and the Football League being a completely separate entity

    Kind of like how the Women's setup is now where you have to be elected

    Yep - my view too.

    However, eventually there will be a slew of clubs at the bottom of Div 2 who are cannon fodder. By January every year they will have nothing to play for, and with no relegation to fight against, watch the crowds diminish...

    The only answer would be something akin to the US draft system, where the worst team gets the best new players in order to give them a chance to go up the rankings. As we don't have a college system and the biggest clubs are never going to give up any cash to boost the little clubs, it'll end in tears.
    I've always thought this would be a good idea by adopting the US College versions... Do away with clubs having their own Youth Academies and bring in scholarships to play... Means the kids get a chance to have a good Education by going to Univesity and have something good to fall back on should their career fail - Of course once their University career ends they can then enter a draft system (again like what happens in the US to stop the big clubs always getting the best players)

    Unfortunately that wouldnt be an overhaul of the Football system yet Sport as a whole in this country so would never happen - Its also a problem in the sense that clubs will be unable to sign English kids until at least the age of 21 (?) yet will be able to sign kids from abroad from a lot earlier

    With regards to the crowd issues... the recent stats show that clubs can easily survive without crowds so think they're at the point already where they dont really care if they get a full stadium
    The ones at the bottom of Div 2 are not going to get anywhere near the TV cash the greedy ones do though FA. Again the only way for it to work would be what you suggest, or totally equal division of all income. That ain't gonna happen. And of course passionate crowds are part of the spectacle too.
    Is another reason to completely overhaul Football... Replace all Leagues (not just in England) with the US College based system

    When a Player then signs on the Draft System there are a number of conditions that have to be met

    (1) The draft starts at the bottom with Macclesfield and Tranmere (the lowest clubs this season) getting the first picks unless deals are done
    (2) A players contract has to be for four years... Gives Macclesfield etc. a chance to get into the Premier League with that player
    (3) Transfers are done away with, players can only move clubs once their Contract is up (after that four year period it can be for any length of time)

    Of course because Football is governed by the big clubs (How can AC Milan have a say when they've not been at the top table for a number of years now, or Man City have more of a say that anyone else when they were in League One only 20-years ago) anything like this will never change and in the same vein wouldnt be surprised if one day we saw Football turning into a complete City type Franchise; instead of getting Man City v Man Utd it would be Manchester v Beijing or London v Madrid, part of me just wants them to get on with it and bugger of so proper club Football for Charlton can get on with what we love
    Absolutely agreee. I said when the Premier league started that all the rest should have said okay, off you go. The no relegation thing would have killed it off there and then - for the reasons I gave earlier - especially as at that point the clubs really did need the crowds. No interleague cup games either.
    Its what worries me about the future and why this could seriously happen

    Make no bones about it, its the Premier League that owns Football here in England, they're the playground bully that the FA dont have the balls to stand up to and the Football League are the bully's side kick who knows what they're doing is wrong but because they dont want to lose that protection / friendship will go along with whatever they say.

    Take the latest rules that changes allowing Premier League teams to cherry pick kids from EFL Academies for peanuts, the EFL should have told them to go to hell and the FA should have stuck up for them... Instead the Premier League were allowed to blackmail the EFL by basically demanding that if the new rule wasnt agreed then the money flowing down from the Premier League would lessen - Wouldnt be surprised if the same again was done for the U21 teams to get into the Football League Trophy, trouble is every few years they make a few more demands and you know they wont stop until they're properly controlled which wont ever happen

    As @Croydon says... the Premier League is financially destroying English Football... Yet I cant see what more they could do to deliver the killing blow as they've already done so much damage
  • jac52 said:

    What's the point in just changing the name to something that doesn't make sense. It's not exactly premier if there's a 2 after it. Not sure I understand this

    I agree. League 1 = 3rd division, etc. All marketing wank.
  • pettgra said:

    This old chestnut is being kicked around again. The Leeds owner is calling for this as he reckons life in the Championship is not sustainable.
    As it stands I could not imagine the Premier League parting with a single pound. If they had a mouth full of gumboils they would not give you one.
    Unless of course there is some kind of trade off that would appeal to them. Something along the lines of go along with this and we could change the rules so only one team could be relegated from Division Two. As a large proportion of the top tier will be fighting relegation at some stage of their lives, it could be a decent
    safeguard against it happening again if it comes to the worst.
    That is just one scenario; however, I can see the structure changing at some point, maybe not for the good of many.

    The funniest thing about this is the Leeds Owners is complaining mainly about the LACK OF TV MONEY in the championship.

    Yet Leeds have had more games on sky in the past season Than the vast majority of the other Championship teams
  • It's all about branding now - seems like football didn't exist before the Premier League.

  • If they try and kill off L1 clubs and below by creating a PL2 and a closed shop where will the PL stars of the future come from ?
  • Slightly depressed by the comments here. Let me ask you all this: can any one of you give me a good reason why the FAPL should exist as a separate entity from the rest of football,, keeping all the TV money? After all, no other European country does it this way.

    If no, then why do you all just accept it as a given?
  • cafcwill said:

    pettgra said:

    This old chestnut is being kicked around again. The Leeds owner is calling for this as he reckons life in the Championship is not sustainable.
    As it stands I could not imagine the Premier League parting with a single pound. If they had a mouth full of gumboils they would not give you one.
    Unless of course there is some kind of trade off that would appeal to them. Something along the lines of go along with this and we could change the rules so only one team could be relegated from Division Two. As a large proportion of the top tier will be fighting relegation at some stage of their lives, it could be a decent
    safeguard against it happening again if it comes to the worst.
    That is just one scenario; however, I can see the structure changing at some point, maybe not for the good of many.

    The funniest thing about this is the Leeds Owners is complaining mainly about the LACK OF TV MONEY in the championship.

    Yet Leeds have had more games on sky in the past season Than the vast majority of the other Championship teams
    And most Prem teams as well tbf!

  • Love that the Leeds owner has recognised the disparity and asked for more disparity to be created between his proposed 2 leagues and the rest of the EFL.

    There should be greater distribution amongst the football pyramid, not just to the select few. A place to start would be having clubs like Leeds on TV less often so that other clubs get the revenue and increased exposure. Although, given how we perform on TV, it'd result in less fans...
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  • Slightly depressed by the comments here. Let me ask you all this: can any one of you give me a good reason why the FAPL should exist as a separate entity from the rest of football,, keeping all the TV money? After all, no other European country does it this way.

    If no, then why do you all just accept it as a given?

    Don't the biggest clubs negotiate their own TV deal in some countries though, mate - I am pretty sure they do here in Portugal? That is what the greedy elite in England would love to do. The PL deal is just the FA's way of trying to stem those ambitions.

    Yes, the whole sorry scenario is a problem of their (the FA's) own making, but you can't put the genii back in the bottle.


  • A closed league with no promotion and relegation is just an extension of RD’s deluded view that the result of games doesn’t matter. Dear oh dear. The whole English league has been on the slide since 1992, a slow death at the hands of the Premier League which, lest we forget, was “invented” to sell Sky packages.
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