its v difficult to say what we all would of done in the situation, we all like to think we would stand up and do something - like the millwall fan that apparently said some words before fighting with the attackers.
its v difficult to say what we all would of done in the situation, we all like to think we would stand up and do something - like the millwall fan that apparently said some words before fighting with the attackers.
its v difficult to say what we all would of done in the situation, we all like to think we would stand up and do something - like the millwall fan that apparently said some words before fighting with the attackers.
i do agree that he must resign.
The biggest 'Didn't Happen' of all time.
got to admit it is a little hard to believe that the 1st thing you say when seeing a group of extremists stabbing people is "fuck you im millwall" before charging in like william wallace - fair play he fought them and got stabbed in the process but think the millwall connection and today's flurry of so called wall fans sharing it on facebook with " thats the difference between wall and the old bill " is getting quite tedious.
Mackey claims that his 'bodyguards' insisted that he remain away from the scene .. after all that is the job of a bodyguard, to keep their client safe .. however did Mackey 'flee' ? .. it surely beheld him to at least stay in the area .. on a broader issue as I wrote on here at the time of the attack, the Met have to answer for the gross mismanagement and neglect that they left one unarmed policeman 'guarding' the most vulnerable part of the building, the entrance .. keystone cops style 'policing'
Mackey claims that his 'bodyguards' insisted that he remain away from the scene .. after all that is the job of a bodyguard, to keep their client safe .. however did Mackey 'flee' ? .. it surely beheld him to at least stay in the area .. on a broader issue as I wrote on here at the time of the attack, the Met have to answer for the gross mismanagement and neglect that they left one unarmed policeman 'guarding' the most vulnerable part of the building, the entrance .. keystone cops style 'policing'
I suppose the question will have to be - Could he have made a difference? I don't know the answer to that - others will know better. If the answer is yes - even if there was only a small chance, he should have tried to make a difference.
What is clear is that there were Met failings here. This was an attack by one loon on what you would expect to be one of the priority buildings to be well defended.
Not that any officer below the rank and including the rank of inspector will have any respect for this coward, for his own dignity if he has any, he should resign. He is one of the bean counters and senior figures who is overseeing personel cuts at a time when London's kids are stabbing each other at a mental rate.
And he locked himself in a car whilst one of the people he has a stake in maintaining the safety of, was being killed
I'd expect this from some wanker senior manager of a bank, not of a senior policeman
Not that any officer below the rank and including the rank of inspector will have any respect for this coward, for his own dignity if he has any, he should resign. He is one of the bean counters and senior figures who is overseeing personel cuts at a time when London's kids are stabbing each other at a mental rate.
And he locked himself in a car whilst one of the people he has a stake in maintaining the safety of, was being killed
I'd expect this from some wanker senior manager of a bank, not of a senior policeman
good post .. if a little harsh .. the full story has yet to come out I believe
I have never been in the armed services or the police but surely you'd never leave an oppo in the shit ...
Sadly once these horse fiddlers get into the fast track they have rarely been operational officers so lack the moral fibre to actually do the job of police officer. And in the case of this whelk, not only is he a police officer being chauffeured around his patch, he decided at that critical moment, he truly isn't a police officer and never was
Easy to be brave and outraged behind a keyboard in the comfort of home or behind a desk in a newspaper office as social and mainstream media have demonstrated int he past 24 hours. Same as when we all say "if a burglar broke in he'd get done". The reality being you'd be disorientated, completely caught by surprise and likely terrified no matter how much of a tough nut you are or your job demands.
A great philosopher once said. "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."
Easy to judge in the cold light of day after the event but different when you are in the situation yourself and probably see the faces of your loved ones etc I would imagine so I think it's not right to castigate a man until you've yourself been in that situation despite what the "should haves" and "I would have" commentators will insist.
The poor bloke will probably regret doing nothing for the rest of his life. Don't see what is to be achieved by hauling someone over the coals for not acting the way society demand he should have in 80 seconds of madness.
Horrendous, horrific situation and only one person to lay blame on \and that's the utter scum **** that committed the atrocity.
I would have thought "run the bastard over" would have been a fair call, whilst safely locked inside his vehicle.
He was not in a position to as it would have risked injuring others. Was listening to it on LBC earlier and the facts presented are different to the picture painted by the tabloid allegations of outright cowardice.
Don't really know where I sit on this but find the witch hunt and allegations of cowardice are a bit out of order especially when they come from people who have no basis to prove they would do anything different if in the same scenario (not anyone on here just the random vitriol that's been up on social media past day about it...nation of Rambos by the sound of it and I'm surprised any terrorists have managed to do anything the amount of have a go heroes in waiting tweeting about this)
If you are Police Officer, whatever your rank, your default position should not be to lock yourself in your car. Having said that, if it was clear he could do nothing, then that changes the situation. It is right to get the facts.
I know at least three signatures on here are from ex-coppers. I'm not going to condemn the man, I don't know the facts. I was very close to joining the police when I was younger but in this violent city we live in I have to say I have no regrets that I didn't apart from the fact I'd be out by now with a fat pension. I'm sure he and his protection were following protocol regarding senior officers but I cannot help thinking that as a chief and you saw one of your own getting stabbed you'd say sod the rules and instinctively rush to his aid. Surely that is what being in that position is actually all about?
There have been news stories of cops not going into water to save people because they are not permitted without the right equipment. This guy could hardly break his own rules. I guess he acted as a radio link to the authorities from his car, not sure what else he could do - there were plenty of cops around at the time who were armed and wearing protective clothing.
I actually heard about this from a mate who is in the MET, maybe I'm being overly harsh maybe I'm not. @RodneyCharltonTrotta makes a sensible point about us being brave behind a keyboard.
Having been in situations with burglars in recent memory I can say the adrenaline and the human arsehole go tight as a banjo string. I don't think I made a conscious yes/no decision to tackle the burglar it just happened with anger and then a bit of a coldness afterwards.
Another mate of mine who did his term.in the armed forces had nothing good to say about most officers (ruperts) and said you count the decent ones on the finger of one of his paws, they were the ones who had led from the front, were not political climbers and had the undying respect of their charges.
Not sure who is getting hysterical. Sometimes you just have to break the rules.
Not everyone does and Craig Mackey didn't. He might be a total coward for all I know but I think the focus needs to remain on how Keith Palmer was let down.
Keith Palmer shouldn't have died if the area was resourced correctly. Whether Mackey is a coward is another matter.
Not sure who is getting hysterical. Sometimes you just have to break the rules.
Not everyone does and Craig Mackey didn't. He might be a total coward for all I know but I think the focus needs to remain on how Keith Palmer was let down.
Keith Palmer shouldn't have died if the area was resourced correctly. Whether Mackey is a coward is another matter.
Well that is what this thread is about!!! It's not about how or why PC Palmer died.
I actually heard about this from a mate who is in the MET, maybe I'm being overly harsh maybe I'm not. @RodneyCharltonTrotta makes a sensible point about us being brave behind a keyboard.
Having been in situations with burglars in recent memory I can say the adrenaline and the human arsehole go tight as a banjo string. I don't think I made a conscious yes/no decision to tackle the burglar it just happened with anger and then a bit of a coldness afterwards.
Another mate of mine who did his term.in the armed forces had nothing good to say about most officers (ruperts) and said you count the decent ones on the finger of one of his paws, they were the ones who had led from the front, were not political climbers and had the undying respect of their charges.
Same when I was in the Fire Brigade, they are more interested in their (future political) careers than the service. And also couldn't wait to put our whole watch on a charge due to a (totally false) accusation. One of the reason why I jacked it in.
Not sure who is getting hysterical. Sometimes you just have to break the rules.
Not everyone does and Craig Mackey didn't. He might be a total coward for all I know but I think the focus needs to remain on how Keith Palmer was let down.
Keith Palmer shouldn't have died if the area was resourced correctly. Whether Mackey is a coward is another matter.
Well that is what this thread is about!!! It's not about how or why PC Palmer died.
I know this thread is about that I was just expressing my disappointment at how the discussion over Mackey has sidetracked the main issue.
Mackey had two bodyguards in the car with him . Possibly armed I don't know. But even if he never got out of the car why were the two bodyguards not used. After all that is their job.
Not sure who is getting hysterical. Sometimes you just have to break the rules.
Not everyone does and Craig Mackey didn't. He might be a total coward for all I know but I think the focus needs to remain on how Keith Palmer was let down.
Keith Palmer shouldn't have died if the area was resourced correctly. Whether Mackey is a coward is another matter.
Well that is what this thread is about!!! It's not about how or why PC Palmer died.
I know this thread is about that I was just expressing my disappointment at how the discussion over Mackey has sidetracked the main issue.
I'll get my coat....
I don't think it has. It's a very long and detailed enquiry and the Mackey issue was yesterday's big story. I for one knew nothing of Mackey being near the scene until it was reported yesterday. I don't remember any media reports about it at the time. I think that shows that this enquiry is very through which must be seen as a good thing. Also out of respect to the number of members of the general public who also lost their lives to this horrific attack it should be remembered that this enquiry is also about their unlawful deaths and not just that of a serving police officer.
Maybe there is an argument of being brave behind a keyboard, but to be fair the expectations on a police officer and a civilian have to be different. I have seen a photo this morning of where his car was and he could have got out in my opinion and ensured the other passengers were still locked in.
The question is, what could he have done? I suppose the answer is possibly deflected some of the intensity of the attack away from the victim. Putting himself at great risk admittedly. I think bravery in these situations is a requirement of the job as is being a fireman or a member of the armed forces. We have seen a recent example of an off duty police officer putting his life at risk to save others during a terrorist attack. That is reasonable and it has to be equally reasonable to expect senior officers to be judged by the same criteria.
These are the ones making decisions on equipment levels and support their officers get which leaves a bit of a bad taste in all honesty.
I don't think being brave behind anything means anything. It's about leadership in my opinion, if you've got the pips, stripes and medals and you are in a high ranking position I personally think that sometimes you need to throw protocol and rules out the window and show some bravery and leadership that your rank represents. Yes it easy for me to say, but I'm not a high ranking police officer and as I said earlier I'm glad I didn't join the police because I am not brave enough myself to even think of intervening in such things.
Comments
i do agree that he must resign.
However I saw a report stating that he had passengers in his car so perhaps it was not quite as simple as him being a gutless coward.
on a broader issue as I wrote on here at the time of the attack, the Met have to answer for the gross mismanagement and neglect that they left one unarmed policeman 'guarding' the most vulnerable part of the building, the entrance .. keystone cops style 'policing'
i know roy larner ( millwall fan ) was found guilty of a racist rant - havent heard so cannot comment
What is clear is that there were Met failings here. This was an attack by one loon on what you would expect to be one of the priority buildings to be well defended.
And he locked himself in a car whilst one of the people he has a stake in maintaining the safety of, was being killed
I'd expect this from some wanker senior manager of a bank, not of a senior policeman
A great philosopher once said. "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."
Easy to judge in the cold light of day after the event but different when you are in the situation yourself and probably see the faces of your loved ones etc I would imagine so I think it's not right to castigate a man until you've yourself been in that situation despite what the "should haves" and "I would have" commentators will insist.
The poor bloke will probably regret doing nothing for the rest of his life. Don't see what is to be achieved by hauling someone over the coals for not acting the way society demand he should have in 80 seconds of madness.
Horrendous, horrific situation and only one person to lay blame on \and that's the utter scum **** that committed the atrocity.
Don't really know where I sit on this but find the witch hunt and allegations of cowardice are a bit out of order especially when they come from people who have no basis to prove they would do anything different if in the same scenario (not anyone on here just the random vitriol that's been up on social media past day about it...nation of Rambos by the sound of it and I'm surprised any terrorists have managed to do anything the amount of have a go heroes in waiting tweeting about this)
I know at least three signatures on here are from ex-coppers.
I'm not going to condemn the man, I don't know the facts. I was very close to joining the police when I was younger but in this violent city we live in I have to say I have no regrets that I didn't apart from the fact I'd be out by now with a fat pension.
I'm sure he and his protection were following protocol regarding senior officers but I cannot help thinking that as a chief and you saw one of your own getting stabbed you'd say sod the rules and instinctively rush to his aid. Surely that is what being in that position is actually all about?
Keith Palmer was failed and that needs to be the focus. Hysterical scapegoating of Mackey doesn't seem to be the answer.
Having been in situations with burglars in recent memory I can say the adrenaline and the human arsehole go tight as a banjo string. I don't think I made a conscious yes/no decision to tackle the burglar it just happened with anger and then a bit of a coldness afterwards.
Another mate of mine who did his term.in the armed forces had nothing good to say about most officers (ruperts) and said you count the decent ones on the finger of one of his paws, they were the ones who had led from the front, were not political climbers and had the undying respect of their charges.
Keith Palmer shouldn't have died if the area was resourced correctly. Whether Mackey is a coward is another matter.
One of the reason why I jacked it in.
I'll get my coat....
Possibly armed I don't know.
But even if he never got out of the car why were the two bodyguards not used.
After all that is their job.
Also out of respect to the number of members of the general public who also lost their lives to this horrific attack it should be remembered that this enquiry is also about their unlawful deaths and not just that of a serving police officer.
The question is, what could he have done? I suppose the answer is possibly deflected some of the intensity of the attack away from the victim. Putting himself at great risk admittedly. I think bravery in these situations is a requirement of the job as is being a fireman or a member of the armed forces. We have seen a recent example of an off duty police officer putting his life at risk to save others during a terrorist attack. That is reasonable and it has to be equally reasonable to expect senior officers to be judged by the same criteria.
These are the ones making decisions on equipment levels and support their officers get which leaves a bit of a bad taste in all honesty.
Yes it easy for me to say, but I'm not a high ranking police officer and as I said earlier I'm glad I didn't join the police because I am not brave enough myself to even think of intervening in such things.