Read a book recommended on here I think all about n Korea. Cant remember it's name but it was Fascinating.
Doctors having to rummage around in the mountain flora to find medicines and treatments sticks in the memory.
Nothing to Envy.......Barbara Demick.
A great book for anyone interested in this weird and unfathomable country. I can (as previously), recommend it very highly.........available in paperback.
watched the first 1/2 of episode1 this afternoon .. fascinating .. the wake up music across the city in the early hours reminded me of the muslim call to prayer .. Pyongyang from the top of that tower looks like a lego city peopled by lego citizens .. the traffic cops ballet when changing shift is bizarre but not more so than changing the guards at Buckingham palace .. so few cars and trucks in sight .. people look generally well fed and clothed .. but that is the city .. will we see Palin out in the countryside .. reminds me a bit of my trips to east Europe pre the commie collapse, though N Korea looks a lot more prosperous than that .. or have I been taken in by the selective camera angles and the propaganda ?
Do the people really believe in all the crap.....well obviously ‘some’ do and that ‘some’ are enough to support the regime and control those that don’t....by fair means or foul in order to keep the balance of power. And of course, those that do the controlling (particularly the top military brass and secret police etc) are significantly better off than Mr & Mrs Average citizen, so they have a vested interest in keeping the vile status quo balanced to their obvious benefit. Run by a bunch of disgusting freaks is how I see it and where and when it will all come tumbling down is anyone’s guess. Only the Chinese are in a position to do that.....do they have the will? At present, for whatever reason, it would seem not. I am very very surprised that they are prepared to sit back and allow nuclear weapons in the hands of such a regime so close to home.
Apart from the obvious interest in seeing something of this closed nation I really think we need to just resist the urge to send journalists there. It’s staged and choreographed and only shows what Kim Jong Un wants the west to see. It’s actually an insult to our intelligence and more of an insult to the millions of ordinary North Koreans that live their lives in fear and abject poverty because of the Kim dynasty. Seeing the wonderful subway stations and coloured lit fountains makes me sick when that has all been created on the back and lives of starving poor North Koreans. All to appease the whims of a narcissistic, cruel madman.
Do the people really believe in all the crap.....well obviously ‘some’ do and that ‘some’ are enough to support the regime and control those that don’t....by fair means or foul in order to keep the balance of power. And of course, those that do the controlling (particularly the top military brass and secret police etc) are significantly better off than Mr & Mrs Average citizen, so they have a vested interest in keeping the vile status quo balanced to their obvious benefit. Run by a bunch of disgusting freaks is how I see it and where and when it will all come tumbling down is anyone’s guess. Only the Chinese are in a position to do that.....do they have the will? At present, for whatever reason, it would seem not. I am very very surprised that they are prepared to sit back and allow nuclear weapons in the hands of such a regime so close to home.
Do they know any better though?
If they're not aware of what happens outside of North Korea they'll think they're already living in a country that is the best on the planet and its the rest of the world that needs to sort itself out - Am sure I read something once where a few Scientists defected to South Korea (thinking they were some of the best in their field) yet the reality was they knew nothing compared to their Southern counter parts
Do the people really believe in all the crap.....well obviously ‘some’ do and that ‘some’ are enough to support the regime and control those that don’t....by fair means or foul in order to keep the balance of power. And of course, those that do the controlling (particularly the top military brass and secret police etc) are significantly better off than Mr & Mrs Average citizen, so they have a vested interest in keeping the vile status quo balanced to their obvious benefit. Run by a bunch of disgusting freaks is how I see it and where and when it will all come tumbling down is anyone’s guess. Only the Chinese are in a position to do that.....do they have the will? At present, for whatever reason, it would seem not. I am very very surprised that they are prepared to sit back and allow nuclear weapons in the hands of such a regime so close to home.
Didn't realise it was America we were talking about! Genuinely believed the program was about North Korea!
Do the people really believe in all the crap.....well obviously ‘some’ do and that ‘some’ are enough to support the regime and control those that don’t....by fair means or foul in order to keep the balance of power. And of course, those that do the controlling (particularly the top military brass and secret police etc) are significantly better off than Mr & Mrs Average citizen, so they have a vested interest in keeping the vile status quo balanced to their obvious benefit. Run by a bunch of disgusting freaks is how I see it and where and when it will all come tumbling down is anyone’s guess. Only the Chinese are in a position to do that.....do they have the will? At present, for whatever reason, it would seem not. I am very very surprised that they are prepared to sit back and allow nuclear weapons in the hands of such a regime so close to home.
Do they know any better though?
If they're not aware of what happens outside of North Korea they'll think they're already living in a country that is the best on the planet and its the rest of the world that needs to sort itself out - Am sure I read something once where a few Scientists defected to South Korea (thinking they were some of the best in their field) yet the reality was they knew nothing compared to their Southern counter parts
That’s like locking your children in the basement all their lives and telling them how wonderful that is. There is no defence for KJU ‘s sick and brutal regime.
Those living in Pyongyang are tantamount to play actors in Kim’s stage show. Privileged and unrepresentative of the real people of North Korea. I’m sure many are not fully aware of the squalor and division elsewhere in the country. In many respects it’s similsr to the benefits of being a party member in communist USSR and in Nazi Germany. The only real difference is I doubt the Pyongyang play actors are as clued in as the other two examples.
Do the people really believe in all the crap.....well obviously ‘some’ do and that ‘some’ are enough to support the regime and control those that don’t....by fair means or foul in order to keep the balance of power. And of course, those that do the controlling (particularly the top military brass and secret police etc) are significantly better off than Mr & Mrs Average citizen, so they have a vested interest in keeping the vile status quo balanced to their obvious benefit. Run by a bunch of disgusting freaks is how I see it and where and when it will all come tumbling down is anyone’s guess. Only the Chinese are in a position to do that.....do they have the will? At present, for whatever reason, it would seem not. I am very very surprised that they are prepared to sit back and allow nuclear weapons in the hands of such a regime so close to home.
Do they know any better though?
If they're not aware of what happens outside of North Korea they'll think they're already living in a country that is the best on the planet and its the rest of the world that needs to sort itself out - Am sure I read something once where a few Scientists defected to South Korea (thinking they were some of the best in their field) yet the reality was they knew nothing compared to their Southern counter parts
That’s like locking your children in the basement all their lives and telling them how wonderful that is. There is no defence for KJU ‘s sick and brutal regime.
Those living in Pyongyang are tantamount to play actors in Kim’s stage show. Privileged and unrepresentative of the real people of North Korea. I’m sure many are not fully aware of the squalor and division elsewhere in the country. In many respects it’s similsr to the benefits of being a party member in communist USSR and in Nazi Germany. The only real difference is I doubt the Pyongyang play actors are as clued in as the other two examples.
I read it as a defence of the North Korean people, rather than The rocket man.
Do the people really believe in all the crap.....well obviously ‘some’ do and that ‘some’ are enough to support the regime and control those that don’t....by fair means or foul in order to keep the balance of power. And of course, those that do the controlling (particularly the top military brass and secret police etc) are significantly better off than Mr & Mrs Average citizen, so they have a vested interest in keeping the vile status quo balanced to their obvious benefit. Run by a bunch of disgusting freaks is how I see it and where and when it will all come tumbling down is anyone’s guess. Only the Chinese are in a position to do that.....do they have the will? At present, for whatever reason, it would seem not. I am very very surprised that they are prepared to sit back and allow nuclear weapons in the hands of such a regime so close to home.
Do they know any better though?
If they're not aware of what happens outside of North Korea they'll think they're already living in a country that is the best on the planet and its the rest of the world that needs to sort itself out - Am sure I read something once where a few Scientists defected to South Korea (thinking they were some of the best in their field) yet the reality was they knew nothing compared to their Southern counter parts
It seems that many now know far more than they did due to the fairly widespread smuggling of mobile phones and videos (often of South Korean soap operas etc) across the river border with China.
Plus the tragic irony that during the large-scale famine of the 1990s when many died and in the ongoing food shortages, the 'believers' who obeyed the law and tried to rely on the often non-existent state distribution system suffered the most, while those prepared to take a huge risk and engage in smuggling and an illegal black market survived better.
For anyone interested see for example the book 'North Korea's Hidden Revolution' by Jieun Baek.
Palin is no fool despite his "nicest man in the world" demeanour. He narrates the footage well and coveys the story behind the images allowed by his surprisingly laid-back NK minders. Do we feel that the meetings between the leaders of the South and North are stage-managed---they seem pretty real to me and that progress in uniting the country could be further advanced than imagined. Kim seems a bit at sea when he is in the company of Moon or Trump and is definitely outside his comfort zone but seems to accept and even take on board all that the western world could offer his country in return for the loss of a nuclear deterrent and allowing his people freedom.How would the population cope after being in the Kims' strangle-hold for so long and having the right to meet the outside world through media and travel?
Palin is no fool despite his "nicest man in the world" demeanour. He narrates the footage well and coveys the story behind the images allowed by his surprisingly laid-back NK minders. Do we feel that the meetings between the leaders of the South and North are stage-managed---they seem pretty real to me and that progress in uniting the country could be further advanced than imagined. Kim seems a bit at sea when he is in the company of Moon or Trump and is definitely outside his comfort zone but seems to accept and even take on board all that the western world could offer his country in return for the loss of a nuclear deterrent and allowing his people freedom.How would the population cope after being in the Kims' strangle-hold for so long and having the right to meet the outside world through media and travel?
I think the recent meetings are pretty real... same with the joint Korean teams at the Winter Olympics, I dont imagine that being staged as they did the same by having a combined Basketball team at the Asian Games in Indonesia
Palin is no fool despite his "nicest man in the world" demeanour. He narrates the footage well and coveys the story behind the images allowed by his surprisingly laid-back NK minders. Do we feel that the meetings between the leaders of the South and North are stage-managed---they seem pretty real to me and that progress in uniting the country could be further advanced than imagined. Kim seems a bit at sea when he is in the company of Moon or Trump and is definitely outside his comfort zone but seems to accept and even take on board all that the western world could offer his country in return for the loss of a nuclear deterrent and allowing his people freedom.How would the population cope after being in the Kims' strangle-hold for so long and having the right to meet the outside world through media and travel?
I think the recent meetings are pretty real... same with the joint Korean teams at the Winter Olympics, I dont imagine that being staged as they did the same by having a combined Basketball team at the Asian Games in Indonesia
Oh I don’t doubt it’s real. It’s still only a tool for KJU on the international stage though. He has no real interest in giving freedoms or even food to the mass of his country. Any leader that cared about his people wouldn’t being going through this expensive charade when it would be just as easy to divert those funds to actually making peoples lives better and that includes seeking foreign aid. All KJU is interested in is maintaining his and his future generations power base regardless. His crazed military might is solely to preserve his regime and prevent regime change by external forces. Nothing else. His generals and politicians are kept cosy and warm. Well fed and living in relative luxury while everyone else is expendable. The man is about as low down the list of good human beings as you can get.
Palin is no fool despite his "nicest man in the world" demeanour. He narrates the footage well and coveys the story behind the images allowed by his surprisingly laid-back NK minders. Do we feel that the meetings between the leaders of the South and North are stage-managed---they seem pretty real to me and that progress in uniting the country could be further advanced than imagined. Kim seems a bit at sea when he is in the company of Moon or Trump and is definitely outside his comfort zone but seems to accept and even take on board all that the western world could offer his country in return for the loss of a nuclear deterrent and allowing his people freedom.How would the population cope after being in the Kims' strangle-hold for so long and having the right to meet the outside world through media and travel?
I think the recent meetings are pretty real... same with the joint Korean teams at the Winter Olympics, I dont imagine that being staged as they did the same by having a combined Basketball team at the Asian Games in Indonesia
Oh I don’t doubt it’s real. It’s still only a tool for KJU on the international stage though. He has no real interest in giving freedoms or even food to the mass of his country. Any leader that cared about his people wouldn’t being going through this expensive charade when it would be just as easy to divert those funds to actually making peoples lives better and that includes seeking foreign aid. All KJU is interested in is maintaining his and his future generations power base regardless. His crazed military might is solely to preserve his regime and prevent regime change by external forces. Nothing else. His generals and politicians are kept cosy and warm. Well fed and living in relative luxury while everyone else is expendable. The man is about as low down the list of good human beings as you can get.
As I understand it most North Koreans already rely on UN Food Aid but the Kim regime insist that only they can distribute it - and so claim some 'credit' for feeding the population.
The UN seem to feel that they have to accept this if people are to be fed, plus they probably wouldn't have the infrastructure to directly distribute it themselves.
This is the wiki entry for the huge sports stadium pointed out by Palin when he was on top of the tower .. the largest sports arena in the world .. quite remarkable and I don't think that it was mentioned during the programme .. did his minders neglect to tell him I wonder?
This is the wiki entry for the huge sports stadium pointed out by Palin when he was on top of the tower .. the largest sports arena in the world .. quite remarkable and I don't think that it was mentioned during the programme .. did his minders neglect to tell him I wonder?
Do the people really believe in all the crap.....well obviously ‘some’ do and that ‘some’ are enough to support the regime and control those that don’t....by fair means or foul in order to keep the balance of power. And of course, those that do the controlling (particularly the top military brass and secret police etc) are significantly better off than Mr & Mrs Average citizen, so they have a vested interest in keeping the vile status quo balanced to their obvious benefit. Run by a bunch of disgusting freaks is how I see it and where and when it will all come tumbling down is anyone’s guess. Only the Chinese are in a position to do that.....do they have the will? At present, for whatever reason, it would seem not. I am very very surprised that they are prepared to sit back and allow nuclear weapons in the hands of such a regime so close to home.
Didn't realise it was America we were talking about! Genuinely believed the program was about North Korea!
Hard to imagine N Korea as a mass tourism destination, as (as Palin said) the more you open up to the outside world, the more your people will discover what it's really like. Even if the tourists are just Chinese, how will the locals feel if they see people from the neighbouring country with masses of money to spend that they don't?
I was very glad the soldier/captain showing Michael around the border area shock his hand in the end I at one point thought me would ask Michael and tours to leave after Michael talking around the war ! Excellent Palin again
Ok it's just a two part TV show and the interviews, locations were controlled but would have liked more on the untouched town of Keasong and its architecture, who was using the modern offices of in the street built in a year and yes HS1 will take longer but how did they build it so fast.
Are they moving to a Chinese/Vietnamese model of communist state with capitalist economy?
As always, the mystery and enigma that is North Korea goes on and on. Also left me wanting to know so much more......but if someone with the tact and gentle nature of Michael Palin can’t get any closer to the truth, then no one can. Would like to have known more about what they thought (and knew) about the world outside of NK not just from the view point given by the predictable reply from his female minder. I wonder what answer the army officer would have given? Would be good if he could invite his two guides to The UK for a reality check....I wonder if that scenario has crossed Michaels or the programme producers mind?
Comments
Doctors having to rummage around in the mountain flora to find medicines and treatments sticks in the memory.
A great book for anyone interested in this weird and unfathomable country.
I can (as previously), recommend it very highly.........available in paperback.
And of course, those that do the controlling (particularly the top military brass and secret police etc) are significantly better off than Mr & Mrs Average citizen, so they have a vested interest in keeping the vile status quo balanced to their obvious benefit.
Run by a bunch of disgusting freaks is how I see it and where and when it will all come tumbling down is anyone’s guess.
Only the Chinese are in a position to do that.....do they have the will?
At present, for whatever reason, it would seem not.
I am very very surprised that they are prepared to sit back and allow nuclear weapons in the hands of such a regime so close to home.
If they're not aware of what happens outside of North Korea they'll think they're already living in a country that is the best on the planet and its the rest of the world that needs to sort itself out - Am sure I read something once where a few Scientists defected to South Korea (thinking they were some of the best in their field) yet the reality was they knew nothing compared to their Southern counter parts
Those living in Pyongyang are tantamount to play actors in Kim’s stage show. Privileged and unrepresentative of the real people of North Korea. I’m sure many are not fully aware of the squalor and division elsewhere in the country. In many respects it’s similsr to the benefits of being a party member in communist USSR and in Nazi Germany. The only real difference is I doubt the Pyongyang play actors are as clued in as the other two examples.
Plus the tragic irony that during the large-scale famine of the 1990s when many died and in the ongoing food shortages, the 'believers' who obeyed the law and tried to rely on the often non-existent state distribution system suffered the most, while those prepared to take a huge risk and engage in smuggling and an illegal black market survived better.
For anyone interested see for example the book 'North Korea's Hidden Revolution' by Jieun Baek.
Do we feel that the meetings between the leaders of the South and North are stage-managed---they seem pretty real to me and that progress in uniting the country could be further advanced than imagined. Kim seems a bit at sea when he is in the company of Moon or Trump and is definitely outside his comfort zone but seems to accept and even take on board all that the western world could offer his country in return for the loss of a nuclear deterrent and allowing his people freedom.How would the population cope after being in the Kims' strangle-hold for so long and having the right to meet the outside world through media and travel?
The UN seem to feel that they have to accept this if people are to be fed, plus they probably wouldn't have the infrastructure to directly distribute it themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rungrado_1st_of_May_Stadium
Hard to imagine N Korea as a mass tourism destination, as (as Palin said) the more you open up to the outside world, the more your people will discover what it's really like. Even if the tourists are just Chinese, how will the locals feel if they see people from the neighbouring country with masses of money to spend that they don't?
Ok it's just a two part TV show and the interviews, locations were controlled but would have liked more on the untouched town of Keasong and its architecture, who was using the modern offices of in the street built in a year and yes HS1 will take longer but how did they build it so fast.
Are they moving to a Chinese/Vietnamese model of communist state with capitalist economy?
Also left me wanting to know so much more......but if someone with the tact and gentle nature of Michael Palin can’t get any closer to the truth, then no one can.
Would like to have known more about what they thought (and knew) about the world outside of NK not just from the view point given by the predictable reply from his female minder. I wonder what answer the army officer would have given?
Would be good if he could invite his two guides to The UK for a reality check....I wonder if that scenario has crossed Michaels or the programme producers mind?