The Team Lennie Built that got us promoted the year we left the Valley cost almost Nothing :-
Humphrey, Reid, Pender, Thompson at the Back, Shipley, Loveridge in Midfield, Pearson & Melrose up front probably cost less than £500,000 you could never do that again.
Mark Reid, Peter Shirtliff, Bob bolder,colin walsh, melrose, crooks, pates,caton, steve mckenzie, paul morts, williams to name but a few of Lennie's quality signings.
curbishley made some good uns but he had a darn sight lot more momey than Lennie ever had.
Look at the side that got Charlton promoted under Lennie and stayed in division one for four seasons. Only Pates and Joe McLaughlin cost serious money - Shirtliff, Bolder, Peake, Bennett, Morts, Mckenzie, Humprey, Melrose, Walsh and many others were bought at rock bottom prices. Forget Milne and Campbell, they were cheap players who didn't work out.
This isn't to say that Curbs didn't also pick up great players cheaply, but he undoubtedly had a bit more money to spend and was managing a club going places, while Charlton under Lennie had little money and the prospect of going bust. What Lennie achieved on so little was truly remarkable.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Look at the side that got Charlton promoted under Lennie and stayed in division one for four seasons. Only Pates and Joe McLaughlin cost serious money - Shirtliff, Bolder, Peake, Bennett, Morts, Mckenzie, Humprey, Melrose, Walsh and many others were bought at rock bottom prices. Forget Milne and Campbell, they were cheap players who didn't work out.
This isn't to say that Curbs didn't also pick up great players cheaply, but he undoubtedly had a bit more money to spend and was managing a club going places, while Charlton under Lennie had little money and the prospect of going bust. What Lennie achieved on so little was truly remarkable.
I agree with virtually all of that.
What I would say though is that in Lennie's time English Clubs were banned from Europe also Bosmans didn't exist then. In other words once he got a player he was likely to keep him as the player was at the pinnacle of the English game.
Curbs had to be more active in the market (thus increasing the chance of bad signings) because of European football and Bosmans.
I think they both worked miracles in their respective eras with the resources available to them.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]The Team Lennie Built that got us promoted the year we left the Valley cost almost Nothing :-
Humphrey, Reid, Pender, Thompson at the Back, Shipley, Loveridge in Midfield, Pearson & Melrose up front probably cost less than £500,000 you could never do that again.
It was a lot of money at the time especially for us. £100k on Pearson was the most we'd spent for years I think.
I'd give it to Lennie as we were really broke when he was hear and got good older players but Curbs did a great job early on with Gritty with players like Gatting, Nelson, Robinson (70k what a buy), Webster and many more. Lennie built two teams and curbs built 6
My vote would have to go with Lennie I suspect because overall I don't think he got the amounts of money to spend that Curbs did.
Just the memory of returning to the Valley at the start of the 85/6 season and seeing that magnificent all-new back four, plus of course Shipley and Pearson. Have we ever had a better pair of full-backs than Reid and Humphrey?
Must give Curbs credit for the likes of Robbo, Kins, Andy Hunt and Sir Clive though.
If that hadn't happened, then Curbs quite likely would never have been our manager.
And Charlton's Premier days quite possibly would never have happened!
the lack of money argument for Lennie is strong, but is there a similar argument that Curbs operated in a more difficult period of agents trying to auction their players off to the highest bidder etc.
I think they both operated in difficult transfer markets for differing reasons.
A lot of what Curbs did as a manager was modelled on Lennie - so it would appear that Curbs learned at the feet of the master.
On paper, Curbs achievements seem the greater even though he had far more money/resources than Lennie.
But the teams Lennie put together were truly built on a shoestring, and to persuade new players to join a 'pared to the bone' nomadic outfit with relatively tiny support and teetering on the brink of oblivion was remarkable in itself - let alone to do so in the top division.
And Lennie wasn't afraid to toss in the youngsters - some of whom became Charlton legends.
Comments
Kinsella
Mendonca
and he did bring in sir chris powell
Humphrey, Reid, Pender, Thompson at the Back, Shipley, Loveridge in Midfield, Pearson & Melrose up front probably cost less than £500,000 you could never do that again.
Pates/McLaughlin, Milne, Andy Jones (top of my head)
Best
Melrose, Willo, Humphrey, Reid, Webster
Curbs Worst
M Bent, Redfearn, Bradley Allen,
Best
D Bent, Kinsella, Robbo, Young, Mendonca, Hunt, Powell
Have probably missed a few out, certainly Curbs got it right more often than not. Not as sure about Lennie.
curbishley made some good uns but he had a darn sight lot more momey than Lennie ever had.
I forgive him for Milne, Achampong,Campbell and even persisting with playing Mortimer at centre back.
This isn't to say that Curbs didn't also pick up great players cheaply, but he undoubtedly had a bit more money to spend and was managing a club going places, while Charlton under Lennie had little money and the prospect of going bust. What Lennie achieved on so little was truly remarkable.
I agree with virtually all of that.
What I would say though is that in Lennie's time English Clubs were banned from Europe also Bosmans didn't exist then. In other words once he got a player he was likely to keep him as the player was at the pinnacle of the English game.
Curbs had to be more active in the market (thus increasing the chance of bad signings) because of European football and Bosmans.
I think they both worked miracles in their respective eras with the resources available to them.
It was a lot of money at the time especially for us. £100k on Pearson was the most we'd spent for years I think.
I'd give it to Lennie as we were really broke when he was hear and got good older players but Curbs did a great job early on with Gritty with players like Gatting, Nelson, Robinson (70k what a buy), Webster and many more. Lennie built two teams and curbs built 6
Just the memory of returning to the Valley at the start of the 85/6 season and seeing that magnificent all-new back four, plus of course Shipley and Pearson. Have we ever had a better pair of full-backs than Reid and Humphrey?
Must give Curbs credit for the likes of Robbo, Kins, Andy Hunt and Sir Clive though.
If that hadn't happened, then Curbs quite likely would never have been our manager.
And Charlton's Premier days quite possibly would never have happened!
Bolder, Humphrey, Reid, Shirtliff, Webster, Walsh, Mortimer ...... I could go on, but you get the picture. All Charlton legends.
I think they both operated in difficult transfer markets for differing reasons.
On paper, Curbs achievements seem the greater even though he had far more money/resources than Lennie.
But the teams Lennie put together were truly built on a shoestring, and to persuade new players to join a 'pared to the bone' nomadic outfit with relatively tiny support and teetering on the brink of oblivion was remarkable in itself - let alone to do so in the top division.
And Lennie wasn't afraid to toss in the youngsters - some of whom became Charlton legends.
Curbs: