The latest trains fiasco, and why it will keep happening
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The original ideas for privatisation included true competition over the same line but it is difficult to see how to apply this to busy routes such as Charlton to London Bridge.
You buy a season ticket for a particular company valid only on trains run by that company? How would that work after a game or in the morning rush hour. Who would stop people getting on the "wrong" train?
So you need regulated fixed fares which permit access to any train and then the whole competition idea becomes pointless anyway!
OK -we do have some "advanced fare" tickets on longer distance trains but if you are travelling from say Preston to Wigan you just buy a ticket and jump on the first train that comes along. It could be a super Virgin tilting sardine on it's way to London or a local diesel thingy. Most people don't care and don't want to care!
In future, technology may make it possible to track which train someone used for a journey - ie you "tap" your Oyster card when you get on and off a particular train instead of at the station. The fare would would vary according to the train you chose and go directly to the company running the train. But this seems quite a long way off and I'm not convinced it's a good idea!
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Sure, as I conceded to BBW, the Czech Republic itself is not a specific example to follow, but it is adhering to the general Single Market principle of Open Access. This would mean that you could have situation pretty much as @kentaddick summarised above. to be fair, I don't think any EU country tries to create competition on crowded commuter lines. The best solution for London might be for Tfl to take over all commuter routes, effectively re-creating what was called Network South East before Major was talked into privatising everything.McBobbin said:I can't quickly Google the numbers, but it's significant - the number of people who commute to London each day on the Overground. Hundreds of thousands surely. How does that compare to Czech republic? There's some serious rail traffic into London, it must be at capacity. Love to get a seat guaranteed, but can't see how
I agree you will never get a seat guaranteed in commuter rush hours anywhere. But when I was over a couple of weeks back, I travelled in from Surbiton to London around 10.00 on a Saturday morning and that was standing room only. WTF?
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Bit Corbynista that mate!PragueAddick said:
Sure, as I conceded to BBW, the Czech Republic itself is not a specific example to follow, but it is adhering to the general Single Market principle of Open Access. This would mean that you could have situation pretty much as @kentaddick summarised above. to be fair, I don't think any EU country tries to create competition on crowded commuter lines. The best solution for London might be for Tfl to take over all commuter routes, effectively re-creating what was called Network South East before Major was talked into privatising everything.McBobbin said:I can't quickly Google the numbers, but it's significant - the number of people who commute to London each day on the Overground. Hundreds of thousands surely. How does that compare to Czech republic? There's some serious rail traffic into London, it must be at capacity. Love to get a seat guaranteed, but can't see how
I agree you will never get a seat guaranteed in commuter rush hours anywhere. But when I was over a couple of weeks back, I travelled in from Surbiton to London around 10.00 on a Saturday morning and that was standing room only. WTF?1 -
Currently we have this ridiculous 3 tier structure when all the profits are privatised and all the risk and costs are socialised:
1) Operators, who make mandated profits for running the service, with little or no requirement to actually run the trains properly
2) Train Owners, a little know group of companies that own the actual rolling stock and make a nice wedge renting it to the operators. The operators have to use these companies, so the profits are built into the system
3) Network rail, does all the expensive stuff live building and maintaining track and infrastructure, isn't allowed to charge the operators enough to cover those costs and costs taxpayers far more than British Rail ever did.
Privatisation was a scam. The initial sell off was just a way to fund short term improvements without spending central funds, but at the expense of far higher long term costs and nice cosy guaranteed profits for ministers and cronies.6 -
So am I right in thinking that we don’t yet have sophisticated enough technology to allow for train users to get on whatever train is convenient and have any fair anomalies sorted out afterwards. Yet. We are told the frictionless border required between the U.K. and the EU can be catered for using sophisticated technology. I heard Boris Johnson say so.
Who is telling porkies ?1 -
My brother had to post an important letter to Italy last week. He went into the post office and said, cost is no object I want to know the quickest you can deliver this letter to Italy. They told him for £50 they could guarantee delivery by Parcel Force Worldwide for next day before close of play! He was in really early.
We are still waiting for the letter to be delivered. We went into the post office and they were defensive, blaming Parcel Force and the Italians, but we reminded them, they were the ones that guaranteed it and took our money. We weren't nasty but just asked if they could help us sort it out as it was important.
They just told us to ring Parcel Force and were really defensive and other customers in the queue were annoyed on our behalf. The simple question was why do you guarantee something you can't guarantee and the answer was we have to. Parcel force said the post office do this all the time, lie about having to say this and that they actually didn't pass the letter to them until a day after they had guaranteed to deliver it. I tried to complain but ended up getting the Royal Mail, who told me that the Post Office are so rubbish, you can't complain to them in real time any more. They told me they split form them 15 years ago!
So it is everybody elses fault, and they are all rubbish by their own words. There is no accountability and this sums up what is wrong with so many things, including the railways!2 -
I'll bang on and on and on about this
You sub contract like essential services out and the end user will always suffer, shareholders will do ok but the actual customer will suffer
Healthcare, the postal service, the railway7 -
What would Corbyn make of it all? ;-)
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I help run a small railway.
The KESR knocks the Czech fellas out of the park.2 -
Is that the one that runs out of Tenterden?A-R-T-H-U-R said:I help run a small railway.
The KESR knocks the Czech fellas out of the park.
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And water. You forgot water.Carter said:I'll bang on and on and on about this
You sub contract like essential services out and the end user will always suffer, shareholders will do ok but the actual customer will suffer
Healthcare, the postal service, the railway
Anyone taken advantage of the "market" in water lately? What? Oh.....
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Bit late, but never ever ever use parcel force, I found out this to my cost when i tried to submit a tender document to South Africa and they lost it, found it and delivered it to the wrong post office within the 4 weeks the 'next day' delivery took. Their network is based on the state post services of the other countries, so ultimately you rely on them being effective, and worldwide with very few exceptions, they are not.MuttleyCAFC said:My brother had to post an important letter to Italy last week. He went into the post office and said, cost is no object I want to know the quickest you can deliver this letter to Italy. They told him for £50 they could guarantee delivery by Parcel Force Worldwide for next day before close of play! He was in really early.
We are still waiting for the letter to be delivered. We went into the post office and they were defensive, blaming Parcel Force and the Italians, but we reminded them, they were the ones that guaranteed it and took our money. We weren't nasty but just asked if they could help us sort it out as it was important.
They just told us to ring Parcel Force and were really defensive and other customers in the queue were annoyed on our behalf. The simple question was why do you guarantee something you can't guarantee and the answer was we have to. Parcel force said the post office do this all the time, lie about having to say this and that they actually didn't pass the letter to them until a day after they had guaranteed to deliver it. I tried to complain but ended up getting the Royal Mail, who told me that the Post Office are so rubbish, you can't complain to them in real time any more. They told me they split form them 15 years ago!
So it is everybody elses fault, and they are all rubbish by their own words. There is no accountability and this sums up what is wrong with so many things, including the railways!
That's why they can and do blame everyone else. Unfortunately they have the legacy name and tie in with the post office, so we feel safe in their hands.
Always use DHL now, generally things arrive before they say they will.
As luck would have it the customer really wanted our product, so gave me time to resubmit, via DHL, after the deadline.0 -
Yes, it surprised me to find that both Fed Ex and TNT had got their mitts on it. We were told it was guaranteed to arrive. Guaranteed is a big word to use - we did explain how important the document was too!0
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They also have services at ten ter eleven, ten ter twelve and at ten ter the hour right through the day.PragueAddick said:
Is that the one that runs out of Tenterden?A-R-T-H-U-R said:I help run a small railway.
The KESR knocks the Czech fellas out of the park.1 -
Yes indeed. All the way to Bodiam.PragueAddick said:
Is that the one that runs out of Tenterden?A-R-T-H-U-R said:I help run a small railway.
The KESR knocks the Czech fellas out of the park.0 -
Non-household only at the moment. Market opened up April 17. Household may follow but based on the success of market opening for the non-household I’d hazard a guess it may not happen.PragueAddick said:
And water. You forgot water.Carter said:I'll bang on and on and on about this
You sub contract like essential services out and the end user will always suffer, shareholders will do ok but the actual customer will suffer
Healthcare, the postal service, the railway
Anyone taken advantage of the "market" in water lately? What? Oh.....0
