Social media used to promote violence

hoof_it_up_to_benty

Gang violence seems to be escalating at an alarming rate and criminologists/the police seem to think social media is being used to promote this. It also seems to be facilitating drug dealing and religious extremism.

Should these technology platforms be held accountable for hosting this stuff - they always seem reluctant for taking responsibility for anything.

The Government and authorities seem clueless over this.

Dave2l

I hate people that do that with a passion.

I wish it was easy to arrest them and throw away the key.

They are just deluded lazy scummy c*nts

palarsehater

yes they should, there are dealers that advertise on instagram ffs

we also have kids killing each other over postcodes

Uboat

The genie is out of the bottle. We're getting into 'they need to ban the internet' territory here.

AFKABartram

I don’t see what the problem is to be honest. What more are Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and forum owners expected to do?

Surely these platforms by what people share should help the police to piece together crimes, gather evidence, identify associate links etc.

Must be a detectives dream

Henry Irving

AFKABartram said:

I don’t see what the problem is to be honest. What more are Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and forum owners expected to do?

Surely these platforms by what people share should help the police to piece together crimes, gather evidence, identify associate links etc.

Must be a detectives dream

That's what they thought at Eltham nick

soapy_jones

Unfortunately I see the effect of this every day. Of course there is no doubting I experience the lower end of the spectrum, as I deal with kids 13-16 permanently excluded from mainstream school. Their day to day existence and the framing of their life experience is ruled over by social media and it's content, specifically the music and gang related nature of it. It is very sad to see these kids "brainwashed" and by the time they get to us, it is nigh on too late to divert them. They live a narrative that is so narrow and constrained that it is extremely difficult to convince them even at the age of 13 that there is something else. The irony of course, is that they are so enabled. These phones we hold in our hands are so powerful, at our fingertips is knowledge of everything that man has ever created, talked about and experienced. There are other influences of course, crap families/circumstances at home, but do not under estimate the malign influence of the internet on these kids. Nothing can be un-invented.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

soapy_jones said:

Unfortunately I see the effect of this every day. Of course there is no doubting I experience the lower end of the spectrum, as I deal with kids 13-16 permanently excluded from mainstream school. Their day to day existence and the framing of their life experience is ruled over by social media and it's content, specifically the music and gang related nature of it. It is very sad to see these kids "brainwashed" and by the time they get to us, it is nigh on too late to divert them. They live a narrative that is so narrow and constrained that it is extremely difficult to convince them even at the age of 13 that there is something else. The irony of course, is that they are so enabled. These phones we hold in our hands are so powerful, at our fingertips is knowledge of everything that man has ever created, talked about and experienced. There are other influences of course, crap families/circumstances at home, but do not under estimate the malign influence of the internet on these kids. Nothing can be un-invented.

It can't be uninvented but some of the stuff that is left up on these platforms needs to be removed - Facebook and some of these companies have frequently demonstrated they see themselves as above the law. They seem to have no social responsibility - their reaction to the Cambridge Analytica scandal is a case in point.

Gangs and religious extremism are fuelled by these platforms - to just do nothing is completely irresponsible.

It's terrible to see young kids diverted into a dead end existence.

Wheresmeticket

http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/81496/burglar-killed-in-hither-green-pensioner-owner-arrested-on-suspicion-of-murder-edit#latest

northdevonisred

palarsehater said:

yes they should, there are dealers that advertise on instagram ffs

we also have kids killing each other over postcodes

But we've always had kids killing each other over postcodes, that was a problem a long time before the likes of whatsapp and instagram really established themselves. Social media platforms should always be encouraged and be responsible for helping to tackle this problem and should certainly provide any evidence without question, but they are not suddenly majority responsible for the problem itself?

This view was taken with violent television/film/video games and it wasn't accurate there either, take the James Bulger case. Suggestions (that may well have been false anyway) that the two very young killers watched the film Child's Play in the days before being their inspiration. This is a very Mary Whitehouse approach and is a black and white society view that a) won't help solve the problem and b) simply isn't true anyway. Desensitization is a problem but that is also to be countered by parenting, education and social mobility. Social mobility is a key in a lot of these cases, or rather the lack of it. There are no coincidences there.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

northdevonisred said:

palarsehater said:

yes they should, there are dealers that advertise on instagram ffs

we also have kids killing each other over postcodes

But we've always had kids killing each other over postcodes, that was a problem a long time before the likes of whatsapp and instagram really established themselves. Social media platforms should always be encouraged and be responsible for helping to tackle this problem and should certainly provide any evidence without question, but they are not suddenly majority responsible for the problem itself?

This view was taken with violent television/film/video games and it wasn't accurate there either, take the James Bulger case. Suggestions (that may well have been false anyway) that the two very young killers watched the film Child's Play in the days before being their inspiration. This is a very Mary Whitehouse approach and is a black and white society view that a) won't help solve the problem and b) simply isn't true anyway. Desensitization is a problem but that is also to be countered by parenting, education and social mobility. Social mobility is a key in a lot of these cases, or rather the lack of it. There are no coincidences there.

It's not a Mary Whitehouse view - if you look at what criminologists and the police are saying it's fairly evident that social media is used to facilitate crime. Drug dealing has become far easier and gangs frequently use social media to confront other groups.

I don't understand why people seem to think it hasn't added to an existing problem? You've got to be pretty clueless to think this stuff doesn't have an effect. Social media companies consistently provide a platform for some terrible stuff and won't take responsibility for it - their only motivation is money.

Facebook has recently been caught supplying info to Cambridge Analytics who are busy fiddling elections across the world with the spread of fake news. Drug dealers openly sell via Instagram and Snapchat.

This stuff has exacerbated existing problems - it doesn't cause it but it makes it worse. The same can be seen with the spread of religious extremism.

If internet companies are allowed to flout the law and to not take social responsibility then it will just add to the problem. These problems wouldn't have been able to spread so quickly without their support.

Mark Zuckerburg's behaviour at Facebook says it all.....

eaststandmike

Social media will be the death of society. People need to switch off their phones and talk to each other, especially their kids.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

eaststandmike said:

Social media will be the death of society. People need to switch off their phones and talk to each other, especially their kids.

Sadly that won't happen - some parents barely seem to acknowledge their kids.

It's certainly made people a lot ruder.

eaststandmike

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

eaststandmike said:

Social media will be the death of society. People need to switch off their phones and talk to each other, especially their kids.

Sadly that won't happen - some parents barely seem to acknowledge their kids.

It's certainly made people a lot ruder.

I could give you hundreds of examples I have witnessed, especiall on trains but the latest one was last Saturday. Me and the missus popped into Costa's for a quick coffee which is next to a supermarket where we live.

Few minutes after I have sat down bloke walks in with a little girl and sits in front of the way I am facing.

Long story short I overhear the little girl ask her daddy how long mummy is going to be in the supermarket. Dad ignores her and is on his phone. Little girl speaks again and gets ignored again. I can see the geezers phone and he is fucking about on Instagram.

He eventually speaks to his daughter and says "daddy is busy with work things, drink your chocolate and mummy wont be long" She slumps back in the chair, deflated and sad at being ignored.

We were in there at least another 20 minutes and the bloke never said a word to her.

If he works full time I am betting he does not have much time during the week for her, that was an ideal opportunity to speak and bond with her.

He will moaning to his mates down the pub in 10 years time that his daughter comes home late, is taking drugs and is out of control.......................I wonder why.

SomervilleAddick

I’m always concerned when people start down the path of blaming what is, effectively, a tool as the cause of the problem.

How were people able to organize football violence so well before the internet? Did gang wars exist before Facebook? Terrorist group managed to create havoc without Instagram.

When these platforms are singled out it’s just a distraction to draw your attention away from the fact that governments are not investing enough in policing, intelligence gathering and education to deal with the root cause.

It’s a bit like issuing kids transparent backups after someone shoots up a school with an assault rifle - “look, we’re doing something” - when the reality is they’re not.

eaststandmike

I am not blaming knife crime on social media 100%, we all know it happened in the past and we all know there are other reasons it happens today.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

eaststandmike said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

eaststandmike said:

Social media will be the death of society. People need to switch off their phones and talk to each other, especially their kids.

Sadly that won't happen - some parents barely seem to acknowledge their kids.

It's certainly made people a lot ruder.

I could give you hundreds of examples I have witnessed, especiall on trains but the latest one was last Saturday. Me and the missus popped into Costa's for a quick coffee which is next to a supermarket where we live.

Few minutes after I have sat down bloke walks in with a little girl and sits in front of the way I am facing.

Long story short I overhear the little girl ask her daddy how long mummy is going to be in the supermarket. Dad ignores her and is on his phone. Little girl speaks again and gets ignored again. I can see the geezers phone and he is fucking about on Instagram.

He eventually speaks to his daughter and says "daddy is busy with work things, drink your chocolate and mummy wont be long" She slumps back in the chair, deflated and sad at being ignored.

We were in there at least another 20 minutes and the bloke never said a word to her.

If he works full time I am betting he does not have much time during the week for her, that was an ideal opportunity to speak and bond with her.

He will moaning to his mates down the pub in 10 years time that his daughter comes home late, is taking drugs and is out of control.......................I wonder why.

Children's communication skills will suffer at an early age if they're constantly ignored. It might seem blindingly obvious but as you say you only have to sit in a cafe to watch small children being ignored by parents.

We will see how this develops - will just make society ruder. Anyone who works with the public in health/education/retail can reel off examples...

Leuth

While shit parents have always existed, the particular nature of the problem we now face is broader than mere social media.

Here's a good article: https://medium.com/@richardnfreed/the-tech-industrys-psychological-war-on-kids-c452870464ce

C_A_F_C

palarsehater said:

yes they should, there are dealers that advertise on instagram ffs

we also have kids killing each other over postcodes

The Royal Mail is being used to promote violence?

hoof_it_up_to_benty

eaststandmike said:

I am not blaming knife crime on social media 100%, we all know it happened in the past and we all know there are other reasons it happens today.

Social media has helped exacerbate things - it's hardly rocket science to work this out. It's not the cause but it can help make things worse.

If drug dealers are allowed to openly deal on the internet it's not exactly going to help matters or maybe I'm missing something?

If we pretend something isn't a problem maybe it will just disappear?

Super_Eddie_Youds

SomervilleAddick said:

I’m always concerned when people start down the path of blaming what is, effectively, a tool as the cause of the problem.

How were people able to organize football violence so well before the internet? Did gang wars exist before Facebook? Terrorist group managed to create havoc without Instagram.

When these platforms are singled out it’s just a distraction to draw your attention away from the fact that governments are not investing enough in policing, intelligence gathering and education to deal with the root cause.

It’s a bit like issuing kids transparent backups after someone shoots up a school with an assault rifle - “look, we’re doing something” - when the reality is they’re not.

This.

The government is giving the police ever expanding responsibility with ever decreasing funding. Ideal in London as they can then blame the Mayor for the problems.

Meanwhile the first locally 'sponsored' PCSO has just started duties in Daventry.

I think, also, that these companies help law enforcement more than is let on, i'm convinced Apple helped the FBI at San Bernadino to unlock the terrorist's phone, but told them to say they broke it to keep their customer base happy. I have also seen in action, the tools that police use to monitor social media for proactive policing at things like Carnival and football matches. These tools were declassified a couple of years ago from the security services, they will not have done this unless they have better, and more comprehensive tools at their disposal.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

Super_Eddie_Youds said:

SomervilleAddick said:

I’m always concerned when people start down the path of blaming what is, effectively, a tool as the cause of the problem.

How were people able to organize football violence so well before the internet? Did gang wars exist before Facebook? Terrorist group managed to create havoc without Instagram.

When these platforms are singled out it’s just a distraction to draw your attention away from the fact that governments are not investing enough in policing, intelligence gathering and education to deal with the root cause.

It’s a bit like issuing kids transparent backups after someone shoots up a school with an assault rifle - “look, we’re doing something” - when the reality is they’re not.

This.

The government is giving the police ever expanding responsibility with ever decreasing funding. Ideal in London as they can then blame the Mayor for the problems.

Meanwhile the first locally 'sponsored' PCSO has just started duties in Daventry.

I think, also, that these companies help law enforcement more than is let on, i'm convinced Apple helped the FBI at San Bernadino to unlock the terrorist's phone, but told them to say they broke it to keep their customer base happy. I have also seen in action, the tools that police use to monitor social media for proactive policing at things like Carnival and football matches. These tools were declassified a couple of years ago from the security services, they will not have done this unless they have better, and more comprehensive tools at their disposal.

So what about Facebook? I find the attitude of a lot of technology companies disgusting - why the fuck shouldn't they help enforce the law anyway? Do they not have a social responsibility or have we just decided they have a free pass because they make a lot of money.

If they host content promoting violence, drug dealing, racism, fake news, religious extremism etc let's not pretend that they don't know about it.

They obviously add to an existing problem - they don't cause it. Tim Berners-Lee the founder of the internet has expressed his reservations about the way it is heading.

It makes me laugh when people seem to argue that technology companies are somehow doing us a favour if they cooperate with the authorities - how kind of them! No wonder the dweebs who run these concerns are so arrogant.

Carter

Of course social media platforms can do something. They just can't be bothered.

They have algorithms set up to identify what type of underpants you wear or what type of holiday you search for. If you are idiotic enough to be using Facebook, Twitter or Instagram to incite or promote violence they (social media platforms) are more than capable of doing more to prevent that. I don't want things sanitised, just regulated to a minute, sensible degree.

The Cambridge Analytical scandal is another example of the world subbing everything, including responsibility, ethics and accountability out.

I'm up to my balls sorting out something for the next couple of days a sub-contractor has done that is absolutely unacceptable even by our subbies standards. I'm not a martyr but the lack of ethics or morals from the subby is fucking rank and if I hadn't gripped them they would be effectively waving their hands dismissively and saying "shit happens" as if it was everyone else with the problem.

You can apply this attitude across the board sadly now and same in this case, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and the rest have it within their gift to do more, they just don't want to, because it's worth nothing to them fiscally

Super_Eddie_Youds

I don't think anyone's saying they can't or shouldn't do more (i felt that was clear in my post anyway), just that they are not the cause of the problem.

There's a turf war happening in north London, shutting down Facebook won't stop it happening now, or again in the future.

IS stopped using mainstream social media a long time ago - though wouldn't have if they felt it was safe to use it.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

Carter said:

Of course social media platforms can do something. They just can't be bothered.

They have algorithms set up to identify what type of underpants you wear or what type of holiday you search for. If you are idiotic enough to be using Facebook, Twitter or Instagram to incite or promote violence they (social media platforms) are more than capable of doing more to prevent that. I don't want things sanitised, just regulated to a minute, sensible degree.

The Cambridge Analytical scandal is another example of the world subbing everything, including responsibility, ethics and accountability out.

I'm up to my balls sorting out something for the next couple of days a sub-contractor has done that is absolutely unacceptable even by our subbies standards. I'm not a martyr but the lack of ethics or morals from the subby is fucking rank and if I hadn't gripped them they would be effectively waving their hands dismissively and saying "shit happens" as if it was everyone else with the problem.

You can apply this attitude across the board sadly now and same in this case, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and the rest have it within their gift to do more, they just don't want to, because it's worth nothing to them fiscally

What I don't get is why Governments allow them to get away with it? They really do seem untouchable and to be above the law.

The arrogance shown by the Facebook CEO over the recent scandal is alarming.

Carter

Super_Eddie_Youds said:

I don't think anyone's saying they can't or shouldn't do more (i felt that was clear in my post anyway), just that they are not the cause of the problem.

There's a turf war happening in north London, shutting down Facebook won't stop it happening now, or again in the future.

IS stopped using mainstream social media a long time ago - though wouldn't have if they felt it was safe to use it.

They aren't the cause, they are a conduit.

Super_Eddie_Youds

Carter said:

Super_Eddie_Youds said:

I don't think anyone's saying they can't or shouldn't do more (i felt that was clear in my post anyway), just that they are not the cause of the problem.

There's a turf war happening in north London, shutting down Facebook won't stop it happening now, or again in the future.

IS stopped using mainstream social media a long time ago - though wouldn't have if they felt it was safe to use it.

They aren't the cause, they are a conduit.

Then i'd think we'd be better off addressing the causes.

I just think the fact that the CEO of facebook is an arrogant twat is a bit of a red herring.

i_b_b_o_r_g

The police's hands are tied and I don't think it matters how many there are, respect for them and the law / authority in general, in most areas is pretty much non existent

hoof_it_up_to_benty

Super_Eddie_Youds said:

Carter said:

Super_Eddie_Youds said:

I don't think anyone's saying they can't or shouldn't do more (i felt that was clear in my post anyway), just that they are not the cause of the problem.

There's a turf war happening in north London, shutting down Facebook won't stop it happening now, or again in the future.

IS stopped using mainstream social media a long time ago - though wouldn't have if they felt it was safe to use it.

They aren't the cause, they are a conduit.

Then i'd think we'd be better off addressing the causes.

I just think the fact that the CEO of facebook is an arrogant twat is a bit of a red herring.

Social media helps the problems escalate so to ignore that is nonsensical. It's obviously not the primary cause but it's added fuel to the fire - technology companies have made a choice not to police the content they host effectively.

The turf wars around Tottenham have a long history and the problems have been heightened by social media. Local community groups will vouch for this as will the police.

i_b_b_o_r_g

Anyone remember that "water fight" in Hyde Park a couple of summers ago that left about 5 people stabbed incl. a copper? I remember people on here sharing streams from some app from the riot that followed

hoof_it_up_to_benty

i_b_b_o_r_g said:

Anyone remember that "water fight" in Hyde Park a couple of summers ago that left about 5 people stabbed incl. a copper? I remember people on here sharing streams from some app from the riot that followed

If you want to organise something social media has made it a lot easier. As a communication tool it's a little more effective than a landline or letters.