http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43519296Was interested in getting a general public opinion on this. Having been a member of the Boys Brigade (very similar to scouts for those who don't know), I've seen how hard it has become for those that run it over the years. The people that run these things are volunteers, and I've seen in many cases parents bring their autistic kids as a form of very cheap child care. These volunteer leaders are not trained to deal with children with these problems, nor should they have to be. During camp one year a severely autistic teenager came with his dad and ran off several times, I can't imagine how they would have coped with it had his dad not been there with him.
These organisations can only run with volunteers, many of whom have full-time jobs and don't have the time (or expendable cash) to be able to train to look after such children. Personally I think this fine on the Scouts has set a very dangerous precident. The real issue here is that these parents can only afford this as a substitute for the childcare their children actually need, the government hasn't made it affordable enough. Shame that these parents in the above link felt it fit to get money out of an organisation like the Scouts rather than tackling the actaul childcare problem.
Thoughts?
Comments
It matters not if you are a volunteer, if I was one of those volunteers I’d expect the correct level of training and support to deal with any isssue around safeguarding vulnerable people, sounds like to me the issue rightly so was with the scouts
Would be interested to hear their comments, but surely someone as big as the scouts have a plan in place to cater for the needs of autistic children?
Although as a voluntary organisation that struggles for staffing numbers I can also see why this is an issue for them too.
Most volunteers do so because their son/daughter will join a local pack. If I was volunteering and was told I'd have to have specific training on how to manage the H&S of children with mental health issues, after which I could be held responsible for their actions, I'm pretty sure I would stop volunteering.
I suggest a large number of volunteers are considering this course of action as a result of this case.
If my child had mental health issues and I wanted him/her to be involved in a local volunteer based group, I'd make sure I fully supported them by becoming a volunteer myself to ensure if there were any H&S issues with my child they could be managed correctly and effectively.
But then neither my missus or I are lawyers who are experienced in litigation.
We, as a group, have never had a problem with inclusion with the children we have in our group. We have a great support from leaders and every leader makes sure that each and every child takes part in whatever way possible.
We have however, had some right little shits who have had to be excluded because of their behaviour (not condition related).
There are not enough groups locally, things like this will not encourage more. I have never met a poor lawyer so two lawyer parents suggest the family is not short a few quid. If they had won and then made a point of not accepting the cash as it would hurt a volunteer movement but they had made a group think about their policies, procedures and training etc then I would understand it.
That said, it seems a very large fine which makes me wonder why... there must have been a pretty serious breach for that kind of fine.
All it took was the scout leaders to have a little bit of training and there would've been no issue other than the odd incident here and there like when he couldn't find his shoes (which would distress most children).
Underreaction - Sued
It is purely run by Volunteers who give up enormous amounts of time and personal expense and sacrifice. I myself have spent most of my life connected to the Movement. This includes being personally responsible the safety and welfare of ALL members. This has become increasingly difficult over the years.
We always tried to be all inclusive but this is not always practical/possible. For example we had one partially disabled member who we could cope with on a meeting night but couldn't have on a camp. We had to ask the parent to come and take some responsibility. On this occassion we was glad to assist.
Had I ever thought I could not deal with a child and not got support I would have had no choice to say they couldn't come. If that meant I was likely to have been sued I would have had NO alternative but to call off the whole event.
This is a very dangerous precedent.
Professional/business companies being held to account is one thing, groups reliant on volunteers is another.
My son went through the Beavers,cubs, Scouts’s and Adventure Scouts’s and as a parent I helped out with craft projects and camps when asked. My wife was asked to help, liked it and became leader of Cubs and Brownies for many years. I always thought we had done our bit and certainly would not have bothered if we thought we would be held responsible to the enth degree.
If a child had special needs, (and it did happen a lot), the one of the child’s parents would have to stay and help. No big deal, there was never a problem.
I do what I can with what little time I have (I maybe should be sorting out the house/garden or not missing two home games instead of helping out on camps). As an ex-Cub & Scout myself, I think it’s great for children but any extra training I just couldn’t commit to.
Having worked in schools all my life, helped at scout camps (cooked for 50 regularly as well as helping with the activities) and taken school students away on activity holidays every year, I know how exhausting all of this can be! Very, very rewarding however and loved it all. But you always have to put the safety of the majority first (companies like PGL or other childrens' holiday companies do) and if one child dominates your time, others are not being looked after fully or it takes one adult away from the group. Surely these parents could appreciate that and offer to help in anyway?
Therefore, why should they take vital resources from the scout association, and how will it resolve their issue? Will they use the money to pay for a one-to-one helper? Just can't see how the litigation and money resolves the issue!
Perhaps they could donate it for improved training?
All of you who’ve commented on here that you give up your time volunteering to organisations such as scouts, Boys Brigade, Brownies etc thanks a lot for your efforts it’s really appreciated
I know of one such situation - boy plays at Cricket club and one day match is abandoned so manager of the team texts those parents not present to let them know. Dad comes to pick child up. Mum turns up 10 minutes later and asks where little Johnny is. Manager is then berated because Dad has limited access to the child and this wasn't one of his days. Mum did not make the Club aware of this when signing little Johnny up (and provided Dad's contact details) in the "any other information" section. So the club now has a Welfare Question to cover this in addition to the previous Medical questionnaire plus food allergy question.
This could also have been avoided had Mum complied with the Club's rules that state that an adult should be present in case of an emergency - many, as in this case, don't bother and just leave the kid because the childcare is so cheap.
There was a kid who had bi-polar and his parents had been encouraged to keep him active and get him into sports so they brought him to the football club but they warned me he had anger issues.
We’d be training - and with the ten kids in the squad it was a right handful organising multiple drills to keep them occupied - and suddenly you’d hear a kid cry out and you’d look over and they would be on the deck.
Every time it happened he’d be in the general vicinity but they were really good kids, they knew he had problems and didn’t want to get him into more trouble so they didn’t grass him up.
However, we were playing an intra-club game one Friday night and this troubled kid is on halfway and loses a tackle and right there, in front of probably 60 or so people, he’s lamped the defender with a massive right hander.
All hell broke loose with the parents and his parents ended up taking him straight home and he never came back.
His Mum phoned me really upset and said they were taking him out of the club as it wasn’t working out and I was gutted for her as she was a lovely lady and was gong through hell, but actually also relieved because the kid needed attention and help that I - a volunteer Dad - just couldn’t provide.