The Darkest Hour Film
Comments
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You are probably as much Roman as Brit. I have explained my position and why I don't judge others with different positions. Some may agree with me, most probably don't. There are quite a lot of german cars sold. Maybe it is my age, where I was brought up with some bitterness about the war.se9addick said:I won't eat pizza beause of the terrible things the Romans did to us Brits 1,600 years ago.
As for the study - are you seriously trying to say that Audi were not aware that there might be something to investigate before 2014?0 -
For fairness and completeness
https://www.audi.com/corporate/en/company/history/personalities/richard-bruhn.html
I'd like an apology on attached and more about what he was responsible for rather than one sentence, but we all have different levels of what we find acceptable. At least there is mention of it but no mention of the thousands of deaths he was responsible for.0 -
For me it’s the tiresome stereotypes that still prattle on. My boss at work loves them. Then tries to play it down as banter. We had an Italian guy start last year and one of the first things he says is about Italians inventing the convertible car so they can throw their hands up in surrender easily or some bollocks. The guy just stared at him stone faced whilst he tired to pass it off with a big laugh afterwardsAddickted said:Seriously @MuttleyCAFC, where do you stop though?
We're talking 75 years ago now. Where is the cut off point for all the historical injustices that have happened throughout human history?
Perhaps the focus needs to be those areas where these injustices haven't changed and continue in the 21st century, like famine, slavery and curable diseases, rather than worry about the diabolical past that you can do nothing to alter.
Odd and insecure3 -
No one is questioning German manufacturing and the use of slave labour during the war. It was abhorrent then as it is now.
But why just focus on just this man's inhumanity to man when we really should be working to rid the slave labour trade used throughout the World today?
Or the Child labour used throughout the far east to feed the West's insatiable demand for cheap clothing and even cheaper electrical goods?
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I wasn't being serious, I love pizza as much as I love bratwurst!MuttleyCAFC said:
You are probably as much Roman as Brit. I have explained my position and why I don't judge others with different positions. Some may agree with me, most probably don't. There are quite a lot of german cars sold. Maybe it is my age, where I was brought up with some bitterness about the war.se9addick said:I won't eat pizza beause of the terrible things the Romans did to us Brits 1,600 years ago.
As for the study - are you seriously trying to say that Audi were not aware that there might be something to investigate before 2014?0 -
Because one is morally unambiguous and "we" were in the right.Addickted said:No one is questioning German manufacturing and the use of slave labour during the war. It was abhorrent then as it is now.
But why just focus on just this man's inhumanity to man when we really should be working to rid the slave labour trade used throughout the World today?
Or the Child labour used throughout the far east to feed the West's insatiable demand for cheap clothing and even cheaper electrical goods?
The other stuff now and the in the past that happened under British rule are more uncomfortable for many to confront.0 -
Top 5 terrorist attacks would be tasteless. I'm talking about topics that should be featured if teaching kids about WW11.Riviera said:
Come on we always Top 5's on here! Let's have your Top Five WWII events, your Top 5 Terrorist Attacks and your Top 5 German products you boycott. Surely we should pull out of every World Cup, Euro's and stop our British clubs participating in European competitions if the bloody Germans are there!JamesSeed said:
My top 3 WW2 events:Jints said:History is a massive subject and schools can't cover everything. Dunkirk was a major and important event but only one of hundreds that could be taught.
I read two or three history books about WW2 a year and I still come across major events that I knew nothing about.
Dunkirk
Battle of Britain
Normandy Landings
in no particular order.
Seriously! Sometimes I really wonder about people these days.
Not sure how those comments about boycotting Germany relate to my WWII top three? I don't boycott German products, and never have.0 -
Imperial Empires throughout time have subjugated the peoples they have conquered, not least the British.Henry Irving said:
Because one is morally unambiguous and "we" were in the right.Addickted said:No one is questioning German manufacturing and the use of slave labour during the war. It was abhorrent then as it is now.
But why just focus on just this man's inhumanity to man when we really should be working to rid the slave labour trade used throughout the World today?
Or the Child labour used throughout the far east to feed the West's insatiable demand for cheap clothing and even cheaper electrical goods?
The other stuff now and the in the past that happened under British rule are more uncomfortable for many to confront.
Should I go round the World apologising for what my ancestors probably did 250 years ago? Of course not. I need to acknowledge that some disgraceful actions took place in the name of the King or Queen and ensure as best I can that these things are prevented from happening in the future.
I am also rightly proud that a lot of good was done in the name of the King or Queen by some truly innovative, brave, risk taking gamblers, quite a few of whom were probably slightly mad. There is so much that happens around the World today for the benefit of everyone that can be clearly tracked back to what these people achieved - a lot as a result of dubious decisions.
Audi have rightly condemned some of the historic actions and values of their company and its pre war CEO, just as they can rightly celebrate their current successes.
It's about lessons learned.
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I agree but those that seek to blame some but not all don't want to hear that.Addickted said:
Imperial Empires throughout time have subjugated the peoples they have conquered, not least the British.Henry Irving said:
Because one is morally unambiguous and "we" were in the right.Addickted said:No one is questioning German manufacturing and the use of slave labour during the war. It was abhorrent then as it is now.
But why just focus on just this man's inhumanity to man when we really should be working to rid the slave labour trade used throughout the World today?
Or the Child labour used throughout the far east to feed the West's insatiable demand for cheap clothing and even cheaper electrical goods?
The other stuff now and the in the past that happened under British rule are more uncomfortable for many to confront.
Should I go round the World apologising for what my ancestors probably did 250 years ago? Of course not. I need to acknowledge that some disgraceful actions took place in the name of the King or Queen and ensure as best I can that these things are prevented from happening in the future.
I am also rightly proud that a lot of good was done in the name of the King or Queen by some truly innovative, brave, risk taking gamblers, quite a few of whom were probably slightly mad. There is so much that happens around the World today for the benefit of everyone that can be clearly tracked back to what these people achieved - a lot as a result of dubious decisions.
Audi have rightly condemned some of the historic actions and values of their company and its pre war CEO, just as they can rightly celebrate their current successes.
It's about lessons learned.1 -
Top 5 terrorist attacks tasteless? But top WWII events isn't? How can you have your favourite war events?JamesSeed said:
Top 5 terrorist attacks would be tasteless. I'm talking about topics that should be featured if teaching kids about WW11.Riviera said:
Come on we always Top 5's on here! Let's have your Top Five WWII events, your Top 5 Terrorist Attacks and your Top 5 German products you boycott. Surely we should pull out of every World Cup, Euro's and stop our British clubs participating in European competitions if the bloody Germans are there!JamesSeed said:
My top 3 WW2 events:Jints said:History is a massive subject and schools can't cover everything. Dunkirk was a major and important event but only one of hundreds that could be taught.
I read two or three history books about WW2 a year and I still come across major events that I knew nothing about.
Dunkirk
Battle of Britain
Normandy Landings
in no particular order.
Seriously! Sometimes I really wonder about people these days.
Not sure how those comments about boycotting Germany relate to my WWII top three? I don't boycott German products, and never have.
There is no glory in war
As for boycotting German products, no it wasn't you, but my comments were a reaction to the direction the whole thread was taking.0 -
And thank "Jesus, our lord and savior."Greenie said:
Not really a yardstick is it, Americans applaud when a plane lands.American_Addick said:Saw it in Florida about a month ago. An afternoon showing that was packed, mostly with senior citizens.
The crowd applauded when the film ended. That is a very good review.1 -
You forgot the winking emoji at the end .NapaAddick said:
And thank "Jesus, our lord and savior."Greenie said:
Not really a yardstick is it, Americans applaud when a plane lands.American_Addick said:Saw it in Florida about a month ago. An afternoon showing that was packed, mostly with senior citizens.
The crowd applauded when the film ended. That is a very good review.1 -
I know a lot of people who suddenly won't buy anything by Ikea now that they learned its founder (now dead) was a fascist 55 years ago, or something. If they had their way, the company would go out of business, stop providing goods that million of people willingly pay money for, and put everyone out of work. It's not like this was new news, its over 20 years old.
I then reminded them of the following companies they should also boycott with that logic...
Bayer... its parent company made the Zyclon B that was used to gas the Jews
Hugo Boss... made those SS uniforms.
IBM... made punch card machines so the Nazis could efficiently route people to concentration camps
Adidas.... founder was a prominent Nazi and Hitler supporter
BMW... used slave labor during WW2
Kodak... jewish slave labor
Random House.... published Nazi propaganda
Ford.... Henry Ford was an anti-semite and was given an award by The Nazis for his support
Chase Bank... froze accounts of Jews and lended money to the Nazis
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Wow . You’re a bundle of laughs ..NapaAddick said:I know a lot of people who suddenly won't buy anything by Ikea now that they learned its founder (now dead) was a fascist 55 years ago, or something. If they had their way, the company would go out of business, stop providing goods that million of people willingly pay money for, and put everyone out of work. It's not like this was new news, its over 20 years old.
I then reminded them of the following companies they should also boycott with that logic...
Bayer... its parent company made the Zyclon B that was used to gas the Jews
Hugo Boss... made those SS uniforms.
IBM... made punch card machines so the Nazis could efficiently route people to concentration camps
Adidas.... founder was a prominent Nazi and Hitler supporter
BMW... used slave labor during WW2
Kodak... jewish slave labor
Random House.... published Nazi propaganda
Ford.... Henry Ford was an anti-semite and was given an award by The Nazis for his support
Chase Bank... froze accounts of Jews and lended money to the Nazis3 -
Daily Mail
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Holy crap!Stig said:Daily Mail
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So nothings changed with The Daily Mail in 100 years . No shock there then.Stig said:Daily Mail
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Bayer - Never heard of themNapaAddick said:I know a lot of people who suddenly won't buy anything by Ikea now that they learned its founder (now dead) was a fascist 55 years ago, or something. If they had their way, the company would go out of business, stop providing goods that million of people willingly pay money for, and put everyone out of work. It's not like this was new news, its over 20 years old.
I then reminded them of the following companies they should also boycott with that logic...
Bayer... its parent company made the Zyclon B that was used to gas the Jews
Hugo Boss... made those SS uniforms.
IBM... made punch card machines so the Nazis could efficiently route people to concentration camps
Adidas.... founder was a prominent Nazi and Hitler supporter
BMW... used slave labor during WW2
Kodak... jewish slave labor
Random House.... published Nazi propaganda
Ford.... Henry Ford was an anti-semite and was given an award by The Nazis for his support
Chase Bank... froze accounts of Jews and lended money to the Nazis
Hugo Boss - Have had plenty of their clothes
IBM - Used many of their products
Adidas- !!!! Part of my life.
BMW - Had two and still currently drive one. The ultimate driving machine
Kodak - Had many of their cameras
Random House - Who?
Ford - Had loads of Ford cars
Chase Bank - My biggest client in my 30 year City career. Paid me a hell of a lot of money and didn't "lended" me any!
And I've been looking for excuses to avoid trips to IKEA with the Mrs for years, thanks for providing one!1 - Sponsored links:
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HAHA!Riviera said:
Bayer - Never heard of themNapaAddick said:I know a lot of people who suddenly won't buy anything by Ikea now that they learned its founder (now dead) was a fascist 55 years ago, or something. If they had their way, the company would go out of business, stop providing goods that million of people willingly pay money for, and put everyone out of work. It's not like this was new news, its over 20 years old.
I then reminded them of the following companies they should also boycott with that logic...
Bayer... its parent company made the Zyclon B that was used to gas the Jews
Hugo Boss... made those SS uniforms.
IBM... made punch card machines so the Nazis could efficiently route people to concentration camps
Adidas.... founder was a prominent Nazi and Hitler supporter
BMW... used slave labor during WW2
Kodak... jewish slave labor
Random House.... published Nazi propaganda
Ford.... Henry Ford was an anti-semite and was given an award by The Nazis for his support
Chase Bank... froze accounts of Jews and lended money to the Nazis
Hugo Boss - Have had plenty of their clothes
IBM - Used many of their products
Adidas- !!!! Part of my life.
BMW - Had two and still currently drive one. The ultimate driving machine
Kodak - Had many of their cameras
Random House - Who?
Ford - Had loads of Ford cars
Chase Bank - My biggest client in my 30 year City career. Paid me a hell of a lot of money and didn't "lended" me any!
And I've been looking for excuses to avoid trips to IKEA with the Mrs for years, thanks for providing one!1 -
I looked up the "Hurrah For the Blackshirts" article in google and found it online.... here is a link to the whole article, from 1934. You can zoom it. Pretty startling to read it. I notice at the end it states the headquarters for British fascists is.... Chelsea.
https://tompride.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/hurrah-for-the-blackshirts.jpg0 -
We assume that because we fought against fascism that there was not a strong fascist movement in this country before the war.0
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I had to put up with all the jibes about Italian cowards at school, when I knew the Italian side of my family were the bravest people possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_resistance_movement1 -
So what do you all think of the film?
Only on CL can a thread about the greatest Briton leads us to rants about those alleged famous Nazis' Hugo Boss, BMW and Ikea !4 -
My friends wife used to be addicted to the Daily Mail's celebrity gossip stuff but one of her biggest points of personal pride is that her Hungarian-Jewish grandfather survived the Holocaust (his story is amazing, actually).NapaAddick said:I looked up the "Hurrah For the Blackshirts" article in google and found it online.... here is a link to the whole article, from 1934. You can zoom it. Pretty startling to read it. I notice at the end it states the headquarters for British fascists is.... Chelsea.
https://tompride.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/hurrah-for-the-blackshirts.jpg
Like I said I don't have any issue with a company, like BMW etc, who were involved in the German war effort 70 years ago (and were involved in some horrendous acts as a result). A newspaper which peddled sympathy for fascists, however, is something different.
Funnily enough the people who buy into the Daily Mail's right wing nonsense would probably consider themselves the most patriotic Brits, weird innit?0 -
It wasn't that strong even at its peak and after it's humiliation at Cable St and the subsequent ban on uniforms faded away. The BUF were a flash in the pan (little joke there for those into 30s history)MuttleyCAFC said:We assume that because we fought against fascism that there was not a strong fascist movement in this country before the war.
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not forgetting the England football team...NapaAddick said:I know a lot of people who suddenly won't buy anything by Ikea now that they learned its founder (now dead) was a fascist 55 years ago, or something. If they had their way, the company would go out of business, stop providing goods that million of people willingly pay money for, and put everyone out of work. It's not like this was new news, its over 20 years old.
I then reminded them of the following companies they should also boycott with that logic...
Bayer... its parent company made the Zyclon B that was used to gas the Jews
Hugo Boss... made those SS uniforms.
IBM... made punch card machines so the Nazis could efficiently route people to concentration camps
Adidas.... founder was a prominent Nazi and Hitler supporter
BMW... used slave labor during WW2
Kodak... jewish slave labor
Random House.... published Nazi propaganda
Ford.... Henry Ford was an anti-semite and was given an award by The Nazis for his support
Chase Bank... froze accounts of Jews and lended money to the Nazis
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2 world wars 1 World Cupcafcdave123 said:
not forgetting the England football team...NapaAddick said:I know a lot of people who suddenly won't buy anything by Ikea now that they learned its founder (now dead) was a fascist 55 years ago, or something. If they had their way, the company would go out of business, stop providing goods that million of people willingly pay money for, and put everyone out of work. It's not like this was new news, its over 20 years old.
I then reminded them of the following companies they should also boycott with that logic...
Bayer... its parent company made the Zyclon B that was used to gas the Jews
Hugo Boss... made those SS uniforms.
IBM... made punch card machines so the Nazis could efficiently route people to concentration camps
Adidas.... founder was a prominent Nazi and Hitler supporter
BMW... used slave labor during WW2
Kodak... jewish slave labor
Random House.... published Nazi propaganda
Ford.... Henry Ford was an anti-semite and was given an award by The Nazis for his support
Chase Bank... froze accounts of Jews and lended money to the Nazis4 -
Pay attention Pike. As I said in my previous post, they’re my top three events that should be on the agenda if you’re teaching WW2 in schools.Riviera said:
Top 5 terrorist attacks tasteless? But top WWII events isn't? How can you have your favourite war events?JamesSeed said:
Top 5 terrorist attacks would be tasteless. I'm talking about topics that should be featured if teaching kids about WW11.Riviera said:
Come on we always Top 5's on here! Let's have your Top Five WWII events, your Top 5 Terrorist Attacks and your Top 5 German products you boycott. Surely we should pull out of every World Cup, Euro's and stop our British clubs participating in European competitions if the bloody Germans are there!JamesSeed said:
My top 3 WW2 events:Jints said:History is a massive subject and schools can't cover everything. Dunkirk was a major and important event but only one of hundreds that could be taught.
I read two or three history books about WW2 a year and I still come across major events that I knew nothing about.
Dunkirk
Battle of Britain
Normandy Landings
in no particular order.
Seriously! Sometimes I really wonder about people these days.
Not sure how those comments about boycotting Germany relate to my WWII top three? I don't boycott German products, and never have.
There is no glory in war
As for boycotting German products, no it wasn't you, but my comments were a reaction to the direction the whole thread was taking.
Now keep calm and carry on @Riviera0
