One of their offshoot companies does a massive amount of civil construction work for BT's Openreach division. Rollout of broadband to remote rural areas is hugely constrained by the availability of skilled construction workers to dig the trenches and put in manholes and junction boxes. It's a national labour shortage that the whole industry is struggling with. If Carillion go pop, it will have significant knock-ons here, as I am sure it will in many other places. Others will eventually take up the slack and re-employ the majority of the workforce but it will present a big short to medium term problem.
That's a joint venture with Telent and apparently isn't affected.
The Labour shortage of which you speak is not just national, it's Europe-wide. However it is misleading, thousands of people are able and skilled about to do the BT work however the rates are atrocious so another classic case of big business blaming British workers or saying we are greedy when in fact the amount we'd earn for clearing a duct blockage today, with more red tape and legislation than ever is substantially less than wed have earned 10 years ago. Even the supposed harder working eastern European contingent are turning their nose up to it now, partly because they realise they are having the piss taken out of them but mostly because the money is no good
They have some real juicy contracts which other companies will take over and do very nicely out of. And a load of undervalued contracts which the government, (us the tax payers), will have to help out with a few bob. Company's like these subcontract and then subcontract some more down to the one man band spark or painter who come the end of the week will be knocked for their money by those further up the food chain.
They also have a pile of very low margin contracts that have landed them in this mess. They will need to be renegotiated and that's not a fore-gone conclusion and will take time.
got offered a job with them when i left school meant staying down in sittingbourne in block release months, think they done a lot of apprenticeships - never took them up on the offer.
"However, the government will provide funding to maintain the public services run by Carillion..."
"Some of Carillion's contracts will be taken on by other firms and some could be renationalised..."
What a great use of public money this whole privatisation of our public services is eh? From this lot going bust (and others in the same game like Mouchel doing the same) to the G4S Olympic security fiasco, and running down our prisons to earn excessive profits outside those contractually agreed, or them and Serco ripping off the taxpayer with wholesale fraudulent claims for putting tags on dead prisoners(!) to the complete mess that is our transport network and the creeping privatisation of the NHS.
How many billions have governments wasted over the years following this dogmatic approach that private sector ownership and management is always preferable to providing properly resourced publically ran services! It's not going to be practical in every case but it's about time we had a grown up conversation, one where no one gets branded a Marxist, about taking some of these services back into public ownership.
Huge outfit many fingers in many pies, their supply chain and employes must now be crapping themselves, beggars belief how such a UK giant has run up so much debt and taken on profit less contracts.
"However, the government will provide funding to maintain the public services run by Carillion..."
"Some of Carillion's contracts will be taken on by other firms and some could be renationalised..."
What a great use of public money this whole privatisation of our public services is eh? From this lot going bust (and others in the same game like Mouchel doing the same) to the G4S Olympic security fiasco, and running down our prisons to earn excessive profits outside those contractually agreed, or them and Serco ripping off the taxpayer with wholesale fraudulent claims for putting tags on dead prisoners(!) to the complete mess that is our transport network and the creeping privatisation of the NHS.
How many billions have governments wasted over the years following this dogmatic approach that private sector ownership and management is always preferable to providing properly resourced publically ran services! It's not going to be practical in every case but it's about time we had a grown up conversation, one where no one gets branded a Marxist, about taking some of these services back into public ownership.
More than a conversation needs to happen mate, problem is things are too far gone, too many people have been TUPE'd too many shareholders expect profits from a fucking prison, ever tried getting toothpaste back into the tube?
"However, the government will provide funding to maintain the public services run by Carillion..."
"Some of Carillion's contracts will be taken on by other firms and some could be renationalised..."
What a great use of public money this whole privatisation of our public services is eh? From this lot going bust (and others in the same game like Mouchel doing the same) to the G4S Olympic security fiasco, and running down our prisons to earn excessive profits outside those contractually agreed, or them and Serco ripping off the taxpayer with wholesale fraudulent claims for putting tags on dead prisoners(!) to the complete mess that is our transport network and the creeping privatisation of the NHS.
How many billions have governments wasted over the years following this dogmatic approach that private sector ownership and management is always preferable to providing properly resourced publically ran services! It's not going to be practical in every case but it's about time we had a grown up conversation, one where no one gets branded a Marxist, about taking some of these services back into public ownership.
"However, the government will provide funding to maintain the public services run by Carillion..."
"Some of Carillion's contracts will be taken on by other firms and some could be renationalised..."
What a great use of public money this whole privatisation of our public services is eh? From this lot going bust (and others in the same game like Mouchel doing the same) to the G4S Olympic security fiasco, and running down our prisons to earn excessive profits outside those contractually agreed, or them and Serco ripping off the taxpayer with wholesale fraudulent claims for putting tags on dead prisoners(!) to the complete mess that is our transport network and the creeping privatisation of the NHS.
How many billions have governments wasted over the years following this dogmatic approach that private sector ownership and management is always preferable to providing properly resourced publically ran services! It's not going to be practical in every case but it's about time we had a grown up conversation, one where no one gets branded a Marxist, about taking some of these services back into public ownership.
More than a conversation needs to happen mate, problem is things are too far gone, too many people have been TUPE'd too many shareholders expect profits from a fucking prison, ever tried getting toothpaste back into the tube?
spot on. Why some things that are clearly for the national good can't be sorted out on a cross-party, pragmatic basis I'll never get.
I used to work for an outsourcing company (not this one, but the same way of doing things). Everything is about margins - they take over contracts from the public sector, cut staff, even if they are just taking over from another outsourcing company who have already cut and cut. PFI is just the investment version of this, and makes no sense at all except for keeping the debt of the government's books; even though it clearly still is as the govt have to bail out the companies when they fail. The reason they've overextended is that its a bit like a pyramid scheme - they only make the huge profits over the long term as initially any contract is loaded with paying people off. Their share price needs them to be constantly winning new work. It does beg the question of how on earth the govt thought it was a good idea to carry on giving them vital work when there were profit warnings. While Carillion may have particular issues, I'd be very surprised if there is not a knock-on on the other outsourcers like Serco, Capita, G4S (and loads of others working under the radar). Particularly as Labour under Corbyn have said they do not intend to carry on with the PFI scheme.
Carillion issued its first profit warning on 10 July, issuing a statement that sent its shares tumbling 39% and triggered the resignation of its chief executive Richard Howson.
A week later a joint venture between Carillion, its construction rival Kier and the French civil engineer Eiffage won a £1.4bn contract to work on the HS2 high-speed rail link.
The day after that, on 18 July, Carillion won a £158m contract from the Ministry of Defence to provide “catering, retail and leisure, together with hotel and mess services” at 233 military facilities.
A second profit warning in September was followed five weeks later by the award from Network Rail of a contract to electrify the London-to-Corby rail line. A week afterwards the company put out a third profit warning, only to be awarded a £12m schools building contract three days later.
What a fucking joke! The company is clearly going tits up so let's throw a couple of billion of the taxpayers money at it.
The work won by Carillion following on from their profit warnings would have been won through a competitive tendering process which would have also considered the financial strengths of the companies involved.
A profit warning to the LSE does not necessarily mean a Company is going under.
The work won by Carillion following on from their profit warnings would have been won through a competitive tendering process which would have also considered the financial strengths of the companies involved.
A profit warning to the LSE does not necessarily mean a Company is going under.
I think they said on the news this morning that they'd be placed in voluntary liquidation?
The work won by Carillion following on from their profit warnings would have been won through a competitive tendering process which would have also considered the financial strengths of the companies involved.
A profit warning to the LSE does not necessarily mean a Company is going under.
I think they said on the news this morning that they'd be placed in voluntary liquidation?
No compulsory, not voluntary. That mean the creditors pulled the plugged by presenting a petition to the High Court and that the judge agreed that the business was insolvent.
The work won by Carillion following on from their profit warnings would have been won through a competitive tendering process which would have also considered the financial strengths of the companies involved.
A profit warning to the LSE does not necessarily mean a Company is going under.
Some might say that a "competitive" tender for a government contract involving a firm whose Chairman is an advisor to the Prime Minister loses a bit of credibility.
Pretty sure cabinet members don't get involved in the tender appraisal process.
If you honestly think that Philip Green's relationship with senior government figures had no influence over a decision to award £2b of contracts to his firm despite its clear financial problems then I think we have a very different view of how the world works.
Pretty sure cabinet members don't get involved in the tender appraisal process.
Hahaha!
There's burying your head in the sand, and then there's this! It's the same sort of bollocks as people at Intel were coming out with when the Meltdown vulnerability was revealed a couple of weeks ago, and the Intel CEO had (completely coincidentally, of course) dumped every single share he was allowed to a couple of months previously...
I've seen their vans around , and heard they were involved in HS2 , will that mean Hs2 will be scrapped , or carried out by another supplier?
No. They only had one of five work packages for HS2 and that is in a consortium with other companies, who presumably will take over the Carillion work (but may sub-contract it)
Pretty sure cabinet members don't get involved in the tender appraisal process.
If you honestly think that Philip Green's relationship with senior government figures had no influence over a decision to award £2b of contracts to his firm despite its clear financial problems then I think we have a very different view of how the world works.
So it has nothing to do with their actual fee bid - purely down to 'contacts'?
Were the other Contractors tendering for the work unknown to senior Government figures?
Pointless having a competitive tender process then if you're going to just give the works to your mates.
I have a different view because I deal with tendering of large construction contracts and if you believe than financial standing orders and internal checks and balances to ensure the process if nothing but legal, considered and fair then there's not a lot I can say that would convince you otherwise.
This may be different if private companies are procuring, but then that's down to them.
Pretty sure cabinet members don't get involved in the tender appraisal process.
Hahaha!
There's burying your head in the sand, and then there's this! It's the same sort of bollocks as people at Intel were coming out with when the Meltdown vulnerability was revealed a couple of weeks ago, and the Intel CEO had (completely coincidentally, of course) dumped every single share he was allowed to a couple of months previously...
Pull the other one, it's got bells on
I really have no idea what this has to do with a UK construction company.
Comments
The Labour shortage of which you speak is not just national, it's Europe-wide. However it is misleading, thousands of people are able and skilled about to do the BT work however the rates are atrocious so another classic case of big business blaming British workers or saying we are greedy when in fact the amount we'd earn for clearing a duct blockage today, with more red tape and legislation than ever is substantially less than wed have earned 10 years ago. Even the supposed harder working eastern European contingent are turning their nose up to it now, partly because they realise they are having the piss taken out of them but mostly because the money is no good
"However, the government will provide funding to maintain the public services run by Carillion..."
"Some of Carillion's contracts will be taken on by other firms and some could be renationalised..."
What a great use of public money this whole privatisation of our public services is eh? From this lot going bust (and others in the same game like Mouchel doing the same) to the G4S Olympic security fiasco, and running down our prisons to earn excessive profits outside those contractually agreed, or them and Serco ripping off the taxpayer with wholesale fraudulent claims for putting tags on dead prisoners(!) to the complete mess that is our transport network and the creeping privatisation of the NHS.
How many billions have governments wasted over the years following this dogmatic approach that private sector ownership and management is always preferable to providing properly resourced publically ran services! It's not going to be practical in every case but it's about time we had a grown up conversation, one where no one gets branded a Marxist, about taking some of these services back into public ownership.
its their size that wins contracts----economy of scale via huge network of "preferred suppliers",its these guys who will get screwed now.
The reason they've overextended is that its a bit like a pyramid scheme - they only make the huge profits over the long term as initially any contract is loaded with paying people off. Their share price needs them to be constantly winning new work. It does beg the question of how on earth the govt thought it was a good idea to carry on giving them vital work when there were profit warnings.
While Carillion may have particular issues, I'd be very surprised if there is not a knock-on on the other outsourcers like Serco, Capita, G4S (and loads of others working under the radar). Particularly as Labour under Corbyn have said they do not intend to carry on with the PFI scheme.
A profit warning to the LSE does not necessarily mean a Company is going under.
There's burying your head in the sand, and then there's this! It's the same sort of bollocks as people at Intel were coming out with when the Meltdown vulnerability was revealed a couple of weeks ago, and the Intel CEO had (completely coincidentally, of course) dumped every single share he was allowed to a couple of months previously...
Pull the other one, it's got bells on
Were the other Contractors tendering for the work unknown to senior Government figures?
Pointless having a competitive tender process then if you're going to just give the works to your mates.
I have a different view because I deal with tendering of large construction contracts and if you believe than financial standing orders and internal checks and balances to ensure the process if nothing but legal, considered and fair then there's not a lot I can say that would convince you otherwise.
This may be different if private companies are procuring, but then that's down to them.