Is it in our Club DNA ???

AFKABartram

To disappoint?

- Big games
- local games
- Cup games
- games where we take above our average away following

All those categories, basically the games that matter most to supporters. No one can dispute this is where our club, almost without fail, falls down the most.

Given over the last 30 years we’ve probably had between 300-500 games in those categories, you could probably with Norfolk fingers and toes count the outliners where our team has actually shown up for games in these categories and we as fans come away buzzing, and probably only on one hand post 2005.

So what is it? Too nice? Too weak?

It’s definitely something a lot more than simply law of averages, luck, one of those things. Managers change, players change, mentality seems to stay the same.

Thoughts?

JamesSeed

Only since 1956

soapy_jones

We tend to be shit more often than not if that supports your premise?

Uboat

Clubs don't have DNA. Previous performance is of no significance for future performance.

That's what I keep telling myself.

Hartleypete

It's the type of players we generally buy " bottlers".

Cardinal Sin

Hartleypete said:

It's the type of players we generally buy " bottlers".

Let's face it, far more of our players come through the club than have been bought.

Uboat

Hartleypete said:

It's the type of players we generally buy " bottlers".

I just don't believe that. How/why would that happen?

Henry Irving

No

JiMMy 85

Henry Irving said:

No

Another thread bites the dust! We should probably run them all by you before we dare to post I guess.

Henry Irving

JiMMy 85 said:

Henry Irving said:

No

Another thread bites the dust! We should probably run them all by you before we dare to post I guess.

Oh, dear, another stalker to ignore. Bye, bye.

Cardinal Sin

If you focus on the really big games, like second or third cup games and big league matches over the last 40 years, I think you are looking at a much smaller number of games - maybe 25-30 and our record in those is remarkably consistent. Accepting that it's no surprise to lose a big cup game against better opposition, we have done it far more frequently than similar clubs to us. Same for big league games. If you run through the big Cup games - Arsenal (69, L2-0), QPR (70, L2-3), Man Utd (74, L5-1), Wolves (76, L3-0), West Ham (76, L0-1), Ipswich (81, L2-0), Watford (84, L0-2), Spurs (85, L1-2), Arsenal (86, L2-0), Blackburn (87, L1-0), West Ham (89, L0-1), West Brom (90, L1-0), Man Utd (95, L3-1), Blackburn Rovers (97, W0-1), Bolton Wanderers (04?, L1-0), Middlesbrough (05?, L3-0), Sheffield United (14, L2-0) - it's a story tale and it wasn't as if we had any major scalps before these games. If you use Millwall and Palace as similar clubs to us, they have both regularly beaten higher league opposition more than once on runs, including to the finals. Aside from the FMC, we haven't made a semi-final since winning it 61 years ago.

Uboat

Cardinal Sin said:

If you focus on the really big games, like second or third cup games and big league matches over the last 40 years, I think you are looking at a much smaller number of games - maybe 25-30 and our record in those is remarkably consistent. Accepting that it's no surprise to lose a big cup game against better opposition, we have done it far more frequently than similar clubs to us. Same for big league games. If you run through the big Cup games - Arsenal (69, L2-0), QPR (70, L2-3), Man Utd (74, L5-1), Wolves (76, L3-0), West Ham (76, L0-1), Ipswich (81, L2-0), Watford (84, L0-2), Spurs (85, L1-2), Arsenal (86, L2-0), Blackburn (87, L1-0), West Ham (89, L0-1), West Brom (90, L1-0), Man Utd (95, L3-1), Blackburn Rovers (97, W0-1), Bolton Wanderers (04?, L1-0), Middlesbrough (05?, L3-0), Sheffield United (14, L2-0) - it's a story tale and it wasn't as if we had any major scalps before these games. If you use Millwall and Palace as similar clubs to us, they have both regularly beaten higher league opposition more than once on runs, including to the finals. Aside from the FMC, we haven't made a semi-final since winning it 61 years ago.

It has to be coincidence though.

Also, you should win the playoffs one out of every four attempts, so we're well up there.

mid_life_crisis

Hartleypete said:

It's the type of players we generally buy " bottlers".

Generally this.
Notable exceptions would be the '87 play off team and the battle of Stamford Bridge team. (I only go back to '72)
In general we don't buy or produce players who can 'mix it'.

Scoham

JiMMy 85 said:

Henry Irving said:

No

Another thread bites the dust! We should probably run them all by you before we dare to post I guess.

He didn't say close the thread or that you can't disagree?

East_Stand_Loopy

mid_life_crisis said:

Hartleypete said:

It's the type of players we generally buy " bottlers".

Generally this.
Notable exceptions would be the '87 play off team and the battle of Stamford Bridge team. (I only go back to '72)
In general we don't buy or produce players who can 'mix it'.

Way too simplistic. Look at our U18-U23s record against Millwall. We regularly turn them over, home and away.

Also, I was at the KSC final a few years ago when we played Gillingham. Despite it being played at Priestfield, and Gillingham pulling a flanker by breaking the rules that we and they had agreed to, by playing 8 first team players in the final, our U23s ran out 1-0 winners. And fought tooth and nail to win, too.

However, what I would say is, maybe not enough of the players that get brought in have enough about them to know how important those games are to the fans.

And it's not a recent thing to blame on the owner or the current manager. It's something that has been going on for years. Remember Danny Haynes bottling it every time he went near Danny Shittu? And us, a Premier League team at the time, losing to Gillingham in the FA Cup? After going 1-0 up? What made it worse, Gillingham scored all the goals that day!

So, it has existed under a number of owners, and a number of managers. DNA? No. But no manager in recent years has got the players fired up correctly for those type of games...

Stig

It's in the DNA of certain players we've got/had: Did Not Attend.

moutuakilla

Uboat said:

Clubs don't have DNA. Previous performance is of no significance for future performance.

That's what I keep telling myself.

Apart from West Ham...

golfaddick

Have to agree. I've attended many such games (Operation Ewood, 'Boro Qtr final, Sheff U Qtr final, Wycombe Qtr final.......) only to be let down - not to mention Millwall games home & away (missed the Dec 1995 game in the snow but been to every other one from 1985). I don't generally count The Man U Cup game as that was always only going to go one way.

Only games where we haven't bottled it & come out with treasured memories, euphoria & general recognition is of course the Play-off Final and to a lesser extent the penultimate game in the premiership at Villa in 1999.

Otherwise we just lie down & get our tummies ticked.

WSS

Don’t fans of all teams think this exact same thing? Even the “big” ones.

DaveMehmet

WSS said:

Don’t fans of all teams think this exact same thing? Even the “big” ones.

With the exception of Arsenal fans surely?

JiMMy 85

Scoham said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Henry Irving said:

No

Another thread bites the dust! We should probably run them all by you before we dare to post I guess.

He didn't say close the thread or that you can't disagree?

No that’s true, I just don’t get why someone would be so moodily dismissive of others’ efforts to foster conversation and discussion.

Henry Irving

WSS said:

Don’t fans of all teams think this exact same thing? Even the “big” ones.

Yes

letthegoodtimesroll

Do Not Ask ?

ricky_otto

JamesSeed said:

Only since 1905

Dave2l

Not being able to rise to the occasion eh.

Derby days...we are terrible at those. Millwall? Just forget it.

We got 4 points off palace in the season we relegated them on the last game back in 2005. Fond memory.

In relevance to what you are asking...apart from the playoff final, evidently we do not rise to the occasion at all.

Maybe it takes a certain character to have true passion for our particular club and there are not many of those kinds of players out there.

At times we are so soft it's depressing.

Henry Irving

ricky_otto said:

JamesSeed said:

Only since 1905

From 1906 to 1914 we won 8 consecutive leagues and numerous cups.

In 1923 we were in div 3 south yet beat three div 1 sides in the cup.

In 1929 we pipped Palace to the only promotion slot from Div 3 Sth on goal difference. They stayed down for over 30 years.

In 1957 we came back from 5 - 1 down to win 7-6 with 10 men.

Etc
Etc
Etc

Redskin

Henry Irving said:

JiMMy 85 said:

Henry Irving said:

No

Another thread bites the dust! We should probably run them all by you before we dare to post I guess.

Oh, dear, another stalker to ignore. Bye, bye.

'Stalker', 'ignore' Hahaha!

Pathetic...

carly burn

We had our good days. The premier league season where we got in the top ten.
There's many a shit team out there that can only dream of having such success.

We're back amongst them now mind!
Back where we quite honestly we belong.

Some clubs just fall into the 'shit' category and we seem to wear that badge with honour.

Don't be too down heartened though. Man city were once king of the shit clubs.

Fiiish

I have to say I couldn't name a single team that drops points like we do in the last 10 minutes of a game. Are players only allowed out 80 minutes at a time at Sparrows Lane?

Rob7Lee

What ever the opposite of rose tinted specs is........

Henry's given a few but there are probably loads more, 97/98 season, the last ten games, play off semi's and final showed plenty of bottle. We didn't let in a goal between late March and the play off final.

Away to Blackburn in the early 90's FA Cup (round 3?).

If I look back over the last 30 years, we were either a premier/top division side often punching above our weight, a selling club filled with youngsters or old pro's, or like some of the last few years absolutely dire!

I think under Curbs in the premier so much was about getting to safety that everything else went by the wayside, including the Cup, it just wasn't highest priority. But we had some fantastic wins against top top sides;

First Premier League home game? 5-0, same year I think 3-3 with Liverpool, the Villa 4-3, thats just one season where we got relegated! 4-0 against Man City one new years eve (or there abouts) followed by beating Arsenal 1-0 a couple of days later on new years day. 4-2against Arsenal the following year, 1-0 against chelsea on the BTTV Anniversary, followed by beating Tottenham the following week I think (2 or 3-1), in fact I think we did the double on Chelsea that year. Boxing Day against Chelsea followed by Tottenham, sending Palace down..... theres loads

there's been some great times and times players have stood upend been counted, it's not as bad as you think.

PragueAddick

I think Man City fans certainly felt something similar about their club until the Sheikhs came along. Thats why they adopted the Python song, right? Called their club the "diva". I certainly remember that those I knew, and those I met on the day, were massively unsurprised that we battered them out of sight in our first game on return to the FAPL, despite all the pre-match hype about George Weah. That a kid making his full debut, one Kevin Lisbie, tore through their defence at will, was all part of the pre-ordained story.

Probably seems like a bad dream to them now, those that remember it anyway.