Closing half the ground for cup games - puts me off going

razil

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

Penfolds Perm

Don't sit on the fence, are you going or not?

letthegoodtimesroll

razil said:

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

It totally pisses me off too but give your son a treat, sit in the covered end and let him try out a few seats to decide where he wants to sit when the day comes when he wants to be a proper charlton fan

ricky_otto

Cost (stewarding, catering etc, etc) - No point in opening all stands / tiers and making 27000 seats available when only circa 5000 will be in the ground.

It’s also looks pretty pathetic when all the stands are open and there is only 1000 odd in each of them.

roseandcrown

I always use cup games to try and go someone different from my usual view point.

eaststandmike

roseandcrown said:

I always use cup games to try and go someone different from my usual view point.

Stamford Bridge?

Oh_Yoni_Boy

I don't see the problem with it at all, makes financial sense and you can get the same view from the other side if you want. Also makes it feel a little less dross as you're within 10m of the nearest fan.

Airman Brown

ricky_otto said:

Cost (stewarding, catering etc, etc) - No point in opening all stands / tiers and making 27000 seats available when only circa 5000 will be in the ground.

It’s also looks pretty pathetic when all the stands are open and there is only 1000 odd in each of them.

There are only 1,000 in the east stand much of the time now, but it would be very foolish to close it for league games.

Clearly there has to be compromise as you don't need the whole stadium, but there's no doubt IMO that the small cost savings are offset by lost revenue.

Closing the east is a relatively recent phenomenon and fair enough for the Checkatrade, but it diminishes the FA Cup and further undermines the competition.

It's worth remembering that when the club closed the east for the Oxford third round tie in 2014 they ended up having to open the upper west on the night because people would not buy in the lower north.

kings hill addick

razil said:

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

I am not going for other reasons but the stand wouldn't be what would put me off. I'd be put off by the fact that it will be a reserve side (probably) and I'm not even convinced that we will win. It's a bit of a catch 22 situation - due to the low attendances there is no real financial benefit to winning the games so the clubs don't, really, try to win it so the fans don't bother to go so....

Airman Brown

kings hill addick said:

razil said:

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

I am not going for other reasons but the stand wouldn't be what would put me off. I'd be put off by the fact that it will be a reserve side (probably) and I'm not even convinced that we will win. It's a bit of a catch 22 situation - due to the low attendances there is no real financial benefit to winning the games so the clubs don't, really, try to win it so the fans don't bother to go so....

There is still the prize money. The FA Cup run in 2014 was quite lucrative, including for the players. If we'd beaten Sheff United it would have been very lucrative, but the owner had other priorities.

Elthamaddick

always used to sit in a different stand on purpose for cup games just to try somewhere else out, used to be the East to be fair.

I won't be there this Sunday due to the day of the game, will watch the goals go in on Final Score

charltonnick

It's a shame the FA cup has lost it's shine but it's a special day for Truro so I'm making the effort to attend just for them

se9addick

roseandcrown said:

I always use cup games to try and go someone different from my usual view point.

Given how bad Charlton are in cups I thought getting to experience a different view of our home games was the only point of those competitions !

Essex_Al

Not a big deal for me, I'm going to support my team, quite nice to get a different view of the game for a change.

clb74

If you buy a ticket for the 1st round and we get through to the 2nd round do the 1st round ticket holders get priority for the 2nd round if it's an away game with limited tickets

Mendonca In Asdas

I’ve got a feeling we could be humiliated by Truro, if we go into this game with a b team or complacent attitude, we could be onto a hiding to nothing.

CAFCTrev

ricky_otto said:

It’s also looks pretty pathetic when all the stands are open and there is only 1000 odd in each of them.

...like a league game you mean.

ricky_otto

CAFCTrev said:

ricky_otto said:

It’s also looks pretty pathetic when all the stands are open and there is only 1000 odd in each of them.

...like a league game you mean.

It’s tricky for league games - what with season ticket holders. But I’m all for closing parts of the ground or blocks at the very least.

kings hill addick

Airman Brown said:

kings hill addick said:

razil said:

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

I am not going for other reasons but the stand wouldn't be what would put me off. I'd be put off by the fact that it will be a reserve side (probably) and I'm not even convinced that we will win. It's a bit of a catch 22 situation - due to the low attendances there is no real financial benefit to winning the games so the clubs don't, really, try to win it so the fans don't bother to go so....

There is still the prize money. The FA Cup run in 2014 was quite lucrative, including for the players. If we'd beaten Sheff United it would have been very lucrative, but the owner had other priorities.

Not withstanding your reluctance to pass up any opportunity to slate everything the club does under it's current ownership, and everything I say, I knew that an FA Cup Semi-Final would have been financially rewarding. I'm also aware that we haven't been in one since 1947 so I don't think the value of that Sheffield United game can be a factor in an FA Cup 1st round tie.

I'm not sure that many Football League (including the Premier League) clubs make money in the early games once they have taken into account the cost of staging the game and giving a third of the money to the FA. I would go as far as to say that almost almost none of the clubs care if they win or not unless they know what their draw is in the next round - and it includes a money spinning tie or a 'big day out'. Even the massive clubs don't want the fixture congestion so play reserves or kids. Wining the FA Cup is insignificant, financially, compared to qualifying for the Champions League and when it is won by a team out of the top four (which is very rare) it is because the top four don't try as hard to win it.

I would argue that in most instances the rewards are relative to the size of the club, and most of the teams that get to the Semi Final have much, much larger turnovers and richer players. I don't know what the numbers are but I'm guessing a £10k bonus to someone on £2k a week is more desirable that it is for someone on £200k a week.

As usual, I'm sure your facts are correct Airman, but sometimes irrelevant facts confuse the real point. I would be interested to know if winning the 1st round tie this weekend will ensure that the second round tie (including the 1st round win bonus) will make money for the club? I suspect that it will not, but if it does will it be enough to take into account the risk of player injuries and fatigue at a time when we already have more games to play that seems desirable?

I'm going to stick my neck out here and make a prediction that we will not be in the FA Cup Semi-Final this season. I'm fairly confident that we will not make the Quarter-Final either.

Airman Brown

kings hill addick said:

Airman Brown said:

kings hill addick said:

razil said:

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

I am not going for other reasons but the stand wouldn't be what would put me off. I'd be put off by the fact that it will be a reserve side (probably) and I'm not even convinced that we will win. It's a bit of a catch 22 situation - due to the low attendances there is no real financial benefit to winning the games so the clubs don't, really, try to win it so the fans don't bother to go so....

There is still the prize money. The FA Cup run in 2014 was quite lucrative, including for the players. If we'd beaten Sheff United it would have been very lucrative, but the owner had other priorities.

Not withstanding your reluctance to pass up any opportunity to slate everything the club does under it's current ownership, and everything I say, I knew that an FA Cup Semi-Final would have been financially rewarding. I'm also aware that we haven't been in one since 1947 so I don't think the value of that Sheffield United game can be a factor in an FA Cup 1st round tie.

I'm not sure that many Football League (including the Premier League) clubs make money in the early games once they have taken into account the cost of staging the game and giving a third of the money to the FA. I would go as far as to say that almost almost none of the clubs care if they win or not unless they know what their draw is in the next round - and it includes a money spinning tie or a 'big day out'. Even the massive clubs don't want the fixture congestion so play reserves or kids. Wining the FA Cup is insignificant, financially, compared to qualifying for the Champions League and when it is won by a team out of the top four (which is very rare) it is because the top four don't try as hard to win it.

I would argue that in most instances the rewards are relative to the size of the club, and most of the teams that get to the Semi Final have much, much larger turnovers and richer players. I don't know what the numbers are but I'm guessing a £10k bonus to someone on £2k a week is more desirable that it is for someone on £200k a week.

As usual, I'm sure your facts are correct Airman, but sometimes irrelevant facts confuse the real point. I would be interested to know if winning the 1st round tie this weekend will ensure that the second round tie (including the 1st round win bonus) will make money for the club? I suspect that it will not, but if it does will it be enough to take into account the risk of player injuries and fatigue at a time when we already have more games to play that seems desirable?

I'm going to stick my neck out here and make a prediction that we will not be in the FA Cup Semi-Final this season. I'm fairly confident that we will not make the Quarter-Final either.

There is no contribution to the FA in the first and second round proper - the receipts net of expenses are divided 50-50 between the clubs. The prize money for winning the first round tie is £18k and that for the second round £27k. Charlton are already guaranteed a small five-figure TV fee from the BBC.

It's very likely that Charlton would budget to reach the third round, certainly in terms of the prize money as that is fixed while the receipts are dependent on the draw. To answer your question, therefore, it is very likely that winning the first round tie would of itself be enough to ensure that following a second round tie the club would not have lost money on the exercise. This would be particularly true if we were drawn away, because the fixed costs of opening smaller grounds will be lower.

Cardinal Sin

Personally, I would like to salute Airman Brown for his stoical 'reluctance to pass up any opportunity to slate anything the club does under it's current ownership.' However, I feel this statement needs a little qualification and that is that he slates everything the current ownership does that is to the detriment of the club, although most will appreciate that the two statements mean practically the same thing here on the spherical earth.

killerandflash

I guess the club also prefers to have the supporters visible on TV, whereas the East Stand is behind the single camera in use at such games!

I imagine that if we drew someone reasonable at home in the 3rd round, then all 4 sides would be opened.

kings hill addick

Cardinal Sin said:

Personally, I would like to salute Airman Brown for his stoical 'reluctance to pass up any opportunity to slate anything the club does under it's current ownership.' However, I feel this statement needs a little qualification and that is that he slates everything the current ownership does that is to the detriment of the club, although most will appreciate that the two statements mean practically the same thing here on the spherical earth.

I agree with that but it was unnecessary to mention the 2014 Quarter-Final and use it as an example as to why these games can be very financially rewarding. I was merely relating the attendances to the, previous, lack of priority that seemed to be given to the competition, and the likelihood that there was little financial benefit in risking league points, to focus on a competition that has lost much of it’s prestige.

I know that there is no way to prove just how many League points are won/saved by not having a cup run but it feels like it’s been a long time since I can remember anyone at Charlton really caring about the FA Cup, or taking the games seriously until getting to the latter stages.

Cardinal Sin

kings hill addick said:

Cardinal Sin said:

Personally, I would like to salute Airman Brown for his stoical 'reluctance to pass up any opportunity to slate anything the club does under it's current ownership.' However, I feel this statement needs a little qualification and that is that he slates everything the current ownership does that is to the detriment of the club, although most will appreciate that the two statements mean practically the same thing here on the spherical earth.

I agree with that but it was unnecessary to mention the 2014 Quarter-Final and use it as an example as to why these games can be very financially rewarding. I was merely relating the attendances to the, previous, lack of priority that seemed to be given to the competition, and the likelihood that there was little financial benefit in risking league points, to focus on a competition that has lost much of it’s prestige.

I know that there is no way to prove just how many League points are won/saved by not having a cup run but it feels like it’s been a long time since I can remember anyone at Charlton really caring about the FA Cup, or taking the games seriously until getting to the latter stages.

I am not sure anyone is disputing your point. Airman seems to have made the point that there is also prize money to be considered, not just gate revenue. Personally, I don't see any stronger correlation between not taking the F A Cup seriously and gaining more league points as a result and taking the competition more seriously and it acting as spur to poor league results. The fact is we have been poor for all bar one of the last ten seasons and only had one memorable F A Cup run, ironically in one of the poorer seasons when we just avoided relegation. The big boys might not take the F A Cup as seriously nowadays and that may filter down inmnterms of interest but they contest most finals and when there are only two larger competitions to win, winning the F A Cup can make a huge difference to the prestige of a club and the security of the mangers job. Arlene Wenger would vouch for it. Bigger clubs also have far larger and stronger squads than in previous decades and can field 'weaker' elevens in the cup and still expect to win.

Stig

kings hill addick said:

Airman Brown said:

kings hill addick said:

razil said:

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

I am not going for other reasons but the stand wouldn't be what would put me off. I'd be put off by the fact that it will be a reserve side (probably) and I'm not even convinced that we will win. It's a bit of a catch 22 situation - due to the low attendances there is no real financial benefit to winning the games so the clubs don't, really, try to win it so the fans don't bother to go so....

There is still the prize money. The FA Cup run in 2014 was quite lucrative, including for the players. If we'd beaten Sheff United it would have been very lucrative, but the owner had other priorities.

Not withstanding your reluctance to pass up any opportunity to slate everything the club does under it's current ownership, and everything I say, I knew that an FA Cup Semi-Final would have been financially rewarding. I'm also aware that we haven't been in one since 1947 so I don't think the value of that Sheffield United game can be a factor in an FA Cup 1st round tie.

I'm not sure that many Football League (including the Premier League) clubs make money in the early games once they have taken into account the cost of staging the game and giving a third of the money to the FA. I would go as far as to say that almost almost none of the clubs care if they win or not unless they know what their draw is in the next round - and it includes a money spinning tie or a 'big day out'. Even the massive clubs don't want the fixture congestion so play reserves or kids. Wining the FA Cup is insignificant, financially, compared to qualifying for the Champions League and when it is won by a team out of the top four (which is very rare) it is because the top four don't try as hard to win it.

I would argue that in most instances the rewards are relative to the size of the club, and most of the teams that get to the Semi Final have much, much larger turnovers and richer players. I don't know what the numbers are but I'm guessing a £10k bonus to someone on £2k a week is more desirable that it is for someone on £200k a week.

As usual, I'm sure your facts are correct Airman, but sometimes irrelevant facts confuse the real point. I would be interested to know if winning the 1st round tie this weekend will ensure that the second round tie (including the 1st round win bonus) will make money for the club? I suspect that it will not, but if it does will it be enough to take into account the risk of player injuries and fatigue at a time when we already have more games to play that seems desirable?

I'm going to stick my neck out here and make a prediction that we will not be in the FA Cup Semi-Final this season. I'm fairly confident that we will not make the Quarter-Final either.

Anybody who thinks this shouldn't own, run, manage or play for a football club. It is a competitive sport. Nobody should be involved in football who doesn't want their club to win every game.

shine166

Well things must be improving if all they have to do is moan about moving seats.... its not like youve been moved to the bottom of the list for a lung op

killerandflash

Stig said:

kings hill addick said:

Airman Brown said:

kings hill addick said:

razil said:

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

I am not going for other reasons but the stand wouldn't be what would put me off. I'd be put off by the fact that it will be a reserve side (probably) and I'm not even convinced that we will win. It's a bit of a catch 22 situation - due to the low attendances there is no real financial benefit to winning the games so the clubs don't, really, try to win it so the fans don't bother to go so....

There is still the prize money. The FA Cup run in 2014 was quite lucrative, including for the players. If we'd beaten Sheff United it would have been very lucrative, but the owner had other priorities.

Not withstanding your reluctance to pass up any opportunity to slate everything the club does under it's current ownership, and everything I say, I knew that an FA Cup Semi-Final would have been financially rewarding. I'm also aware that we haven't been in one since 1947 so I don't think the value of that Sheffield United game can be a factor in an FA Cup 1st round tie.

I'm not sure that many Football League (including the Premier League) clubs make money in the early games once they have taken into account the cost of staging the game and giving a third of the money to the FA. I would go as far as to say that almost almost none of the clubs care if they win or not unless they know what their draw is in the next round - and it includes a money spinning tie or a 'big day out'. Even the massive clubs don't want the fixture congestion so play reserves or kids. Wining the FA Cup is insignificant, financially, compared to qualifying for the Champions League and when it is won by a team out of the top four (which is very rare) it is because the top four don't try as hard to win it.

I would argue that in most instances the rewards are relative to the size of the club, and most of the teams that get to the Semi Final have much, much larger turnovers and richer players. I don't know what the numbers are but I'm guessing a £10k bonus to someone on £2k a week is more desirable that it is for someone on £200k a week.

As usual, I'm sure your facts are correct Airman, but sometimes irrelevant facts confuse the real point. I would be interested to know if winning the 1st round tie this weekend will ensure that the second round tie (including the 1st round win bonus) will make money for the club? I suspect that it will not, but if it does will it be enough to take into account the risk of player injuries and fatigue at a time when we already have more games to play that seems desirable?

I'm going to stick my neck out here and make a prediction that we will not be in the FA Cup Semi-Final this season. I'm fairly confident that we will not make the Quarter-Final either.

Anybody who thinks this shouldn't own, run, manage or play for a football club. It is a competitive sport. Nobody should be involved in football who doesn't want their club to win every game.

Clubs may want to win every game, but it doesn't mean that they will play their strongest team in every game. And by resting players, it lessens the chance of winning certain games.

Nicholas

razil said:

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

Absolute piss poor reason not to go. If people actually came to the games and stopped making up shitty excuses all the time then maybe they would open all the stands. So many fans cry now days about supporting and helping out non leagues teams and yesterday would have be a double bonus, help out the non league team and your own team. Pathetic crowd yesterday for a proper cup game.

I wonder how many will return if we was to get to the 3rd round and get a prem team at home like Huddersfield Man Utd.

Brendan_O_Connell

Nicholas said:

razil said:

I understand there is a cost associated with this, but I am totally put off going on Sunday against Truro (and other reduced capacity games) by not being able to sit in the East half way line area where I normally sit.

I was about to buy tickets and take my son, but probably wont now

Absolute piss poor reason not to go. If people actually came to the games and stopped making up shitty excuses all the time then maybe they would open all the stands. So many fans cry now days about supporting and helping out non leagues teams and yesterday would have be a double bonus, help out the non league team and your own team. Pathetic crowd yesterday for a proper cup game.

I wonder how many will return if we was to get to the 3rd round and get a prem team at home like Huddersfield Man Utd.

My dog ate my ticket.

MrOneLung

shine166 said:

Well things must be improving if all they have to do is moan about moving seats.... its not like youve been moved to the bottom of the list for a lung op

Speak for yourself....

kings hill addick

Cardinal Sin said:

kings hill addick said:

Cardinal Sin said:

Personally, I would like to salute Airman Brown for his stoical 'reluctance to pass up any opportunity to slate anything the club does under it's current ownership.' However, I feel this statement needs a little qualification and that is that he slates everything the current ownership does that is to the detriment of the club, although most will appreciate that the two statements mean practically the same thing here on the spherical earth.

I agree with that but it was unnecessary to mention the 2014 Quarter-Final and use it as an example as to why these games can be very financially rewarding. I was merely relating the attendances to the, previous, lack of priority that seemed to be given to the competition, and the likelihood that there was little financial benefit in risking league points, to focus on a competition that has lost much of it’s prestige.

I know that there is no way to prove just how many League points are won/saved by not having a cup run but it feels like it’s been a long time since I can remember anyone at Charlton really caring about the FA Cup, or taking the games seriously until getting to the latter stages.

I am not sure anyone is disputing your point. Airman seems to have made the point that there is also prize money to be considered, not just gate revenue. Personally, I don't see any stronger correlation between not taking the F A Cup seriously and gaining more league points as a result and taking the competition more seriously and it acting as spur to poor league results. The fact is we have been poor for all bar one of the last ten seasons and only had one memorable F A Cup run, ironically in one of the poorer seasons when we just avoided relegation. The big boys might not take the F A Cup as seriously nowadays and that may filter down inmnterms of interest but they contest most finals and when there are only two larger competitions to win, winning the F A Cup can make a huge difference to the prestige of a club and the security of the mangers job. Arlene Wenger would vouch for it. Bigger clubs also have far larger and stronger squads than in previous decades and can field 'weaker' elevens in the cup and still expect to win.

Again, I don't disagree with any of that but I don't get to pick the team. The Managers/Head Coaches that have been picking the teams have seen fit to rest first choice players for most of the last decade. There must be a reason for that? It's out of my control and I can only speculate as to why the club have done this. I assumed that low attendances made part of the reason financial, Airman suggests that this is not the case, so I speculated that maybe the players have been rested because it was believed that it would help our league campaign.

Whatever the reason it has been clear since Curbishley was here that we have been unable to, consistently, beat lower league sides when playing with half a first team so why not play the best players? If it's not related to the potential income and it's not related to 'resting' players for league games then why have we continued to play reserves and under perform as a result?