I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
That's all well, but what about that time Diane Abbot got her figures wrong in the umpteenth interview she'd done that day though?
Now that really proves who's the thickest in UK politics.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
You have flagged my last post. I don't give a toss about people giving me flags, especially when they are from serial flaggers like you. But I would really be interested in what motivated this flag. I originally wrote "retard" instead of "idiot" but elected to change it because I thought that word might cause offence. Why are you wasting moderators time. I know you have spent many years living in China, a country where free speech and criticism of government and ruling elites is not tolerated. Do you think, sub consciously you have been affected by living under this regime and so think you have to constantly urge moderators of a football forum in a free democratic country in the western world to scrutinise and censor every post you think is contentious and you seek to take offence to?
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
Fail to see any reason for a flag here.
It wasn't you being called a moron.
Ha, I didn't realise that was the offense you took. You do realise some leaders in the western world are regularly referred to as morons and the voters who vote for them are referred to as morons? Do you not have access to late shows in the US. Or commentators such as Bill Maher?
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
Fail to see any reason for a flag here.
It wasn't you being called a moron.
Ha, I didn't realise that was the offence you took. You do realise some leaders in the western world are regularly referred to as morons and the voters who vote for them are referred to as morons? Do you not have access to late shows in the US. Or commentators such as Bill Maher?
Yes I do, I find being called a moron to be offensive, the fact you originally used the word retard shows me everything I need to know about your mindset.
You have flagged my last post. I don't give a toss about people giving me flags, especially when they are from serial flaggers like you. But I would really be interested in what motivated this flag. I originally wrote "retard" instead of "idiot" but elected to change it because I thought that word might cause offence. Why are you wasting moderators time. I know you have spent many years living in China, a country where free speech and criticism of government and ruling elites is not tolerated. Do you think, sub consciously you have been affected by living under this regime and so think you have to constantly urge moderators of a football forum in a free democratic country in the western world to scrutinise and censor every post you think is contentious and you seek to take offence to?
Do you mean those same moderators who have asked you several times not to use personal insults? Id say it's you wasting their time, not me.
I know I sometimes post similar things, but I don't cry about it when those posts get flagged.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
Fail to see any reason for a flag here.
It wasn't you being called a moron.
Ha, I didn't realise that was the offence you took. You do realise some leaders in the western world are regularly referred to as morons and the voters who vote for them are referred to as morons? Do you not have access to late shows in the US. Or commentators such as Bill Maher?
Yes I do, I find being called a moron to be offensive, the fact you originally used the word retard shows me everything I need to know about your mindset.
Bit of an effort to assume I was specifically calling you a moron in that post in order that you could take offense. But, fair enough, you have answered the question. I will await and accept my punishment from the moderators when they respond to your complaint. Maybe they can set up a special safe place on CL where you can be protected from posters like me.
You have flagged my last post. I don't give a toss about people giving me flags, especially when they are from serial flaggers like you. But I would really be interested in what motivated this flag. I originally wrote "retard" instead of "idiot" but elected to change it because I thought that word might cause offence. Why are you wasting moderators time. I know you have spent many years living in China, a country where free speech and criticism of government and ruling elites is not tolerated. Do you think, sub consciously you have been affected by living under this regime and so think you have to constantly urge moderators of a football forum in a free democratic country in the western world to scrutinise and censor every post you think is contentious and you seek to take offence to?
Do you mean those same moderators who have asked you several times not to use personal insults? Id say it's you wasting their time, not me.
I know I sometimes post similar things, but I don't cry about it when those posts get flagged.
I have over a hundred flags and never complained about any. I was just intrigued about the motivation for this flag. I seriously, initially, could not understand why you flagged the post.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
In fairness to her, what she was saying was that she did not realise that politics in Northern Ireland were as polarised as they are, and so different from what she knew as a candidate.
She wasn't claiming that she had known nothing, but that she had not been aware the extent to which many politicians in Northern Ireland do not even seek to persuade those with different opinions, and that to even try is often a waste of time - in contrast to her own experience of seeking to win over voters who may have supported Labour or the Lib Dems.
I'm not trying to say that she is brilliant, or even competent, but she is honest enough to recognise and admit that she was not prepared for the reality of Northern Irish political divisions as expressed at the ballot box (and, IMHO, she is not unique in her lack of prior knowledge).
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
In fairness to her, what she was saying was that she did not realise that politics in Northern Ireland were as polarised as they are, and so different from what she knew as a candidate.
She wasn't claiming that she had known nothing, but that she had not been aware the extent to which many politicians in Northern Ireland do not even seek to persuade those with different opinions, and that to even try is often a waste of time - in contrast to her own experience of seeking to win over voters who may have supported Labour or the Lib Dems.
I'm not trying to say that she is brilliant, or even competent, but she is honest enough to recognise and admit that she was not prepared for the reality of Northern Irish political divisions as expressed at the ballot box (and, IMHO, she is not unique in her lack of prior knowledge).
Quite frankly it’s quite an admission that she wasn’t aware of the polarised views and entrenched positions in NI. I would agree with @Red_in_SE8 on this occasion that it seems incredulous that any British politician, particularly one seeking office of state could be so ignorant.
It’s pretty obvious though that her situation is not unique within the government on a range of issues where a detailed knowledge of the brief is sadly lacking.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
In fairness to her, what she was saying was that she did not realise that politics in Northern Ireland were as polarised as they are, and so different from what she knew as a candidate.
She wasn't claiming that she had known nothing, but that she had not been aware the extent to which many politicians in Northern Ireland do not even seek to persuade those with different opinions, and that to even try is often a waste of time - in contrast to her own experience of seeking to win over voters who may have supported Labour or the Lib Dems.
I'm not trying to say that she is brilliant, or even competent, but she is honest enough to recognise and admit that she was not prepared for the reality of Northern Irish political divisions as expressed at the ballot box (and, IMHO, she is not unique in her lack of prior knowledge).
Quite frankly it’s quite an admission that she wasn’t aware of the polarised views and entrenched positions in NI. I would agree with @Red_in_SE8 on this occasion that it seems incredulous that any British politician, particularly one seeking office of state could be so ignorant.
It’s pretty obvious though that her situation is not unique within the government on a range of issues where a detailed knowledge of the brief is sadly lacking.
For what it's worth, I don't believe that many other Secretaries of State or direct rule Ministers/Junior Ministers have been anything other than blithely unaware of the detail of political life here prior to appointment - if for no other reason than that it wasn't something that they had to concern themselves with until being appointed.
There are significant numbers of voters in Northern Ireland who vote for either Sinn Fein or the DUP who, in the rest of the UK would not gravitate to the extreme edge of the political spectrum. There is not the same fluidity of voting intentions in the middle ground, even amongst those middle class/professional groups that might be believed to be willing to compromise.
When will we understand the world we live in? Who really expects a corporate or political executive to know the detail and nuances of "their business/ remit"? Are we now not defined by "we will learn from this"?
I regret anyone's departure from this forum.
Yes, the threat of the current Euros' demise remains but if global politicians can take on prodigious toxic debt buying "questionable assets" from banks to keep a failed global banking system trading they will find a way to preserve a currency built for a federal union. Will it end in tears? Probably but whose tears in whose lifetime is anyone's guess.
Yet using a predicted collapse of the Euro rationale for leaving the EU highlights the paradox. Brexit just empowered politicians to rip up 40yrs of trading & social infrastructure.
There is little new debate to be had. The winning obsession is 2yrs old. Individual pro Brexit logic rarely if ever addresses the underlying challenges let alone provides compelling evidence how our new freedom will benefit UK citizenry as the negatives begin to hove into view.
Is it not telling the commercial elite are bending ears as never before to secure guarantees or exemptions with the PL now adding its voice? Why when players of proven international status can secure a Visa. Sorry, everybody else is subject to freedom of movement controls.
In the real world the vast majority of retired Expats living in France spent much of their working lives in the UK. Those with UK properties able to return with little difficulty in my region are likely no more than 10% of Expats. The "fat pensions" whinging over exchange rates tend to be UK residents with holiday homes and no different to the "fat pensions" in the UK.
Working Expats will be paying into the French social system. Their Carte Vitale and health cover will be covered by the French Government.
The retired Expat to receive "NHS" health cover in France has to be in receipt of a UK State pension (meet N.I. criteria). Health costs are billed to their French Carte Vitale and collectively paid for by UK social services.
Many will have faced UK employment/ housing challenges. A swathe hit the "ageist/ cost barriers" in UK employment in their 50's. There are few social elite just middle/ working class folk. No bowls clubs round here.
Ibborg is right the referendum threw everything up in the air. What goes up must come down yet 6 months before the due date nobody knows when and where the pieces will fall.
I believe there are 2.2mn UK Expats in the EU with circa 250k in France. I guess 30% have nowhere else to go while 80% face having their lives turned upside. With no health care cover whether you have a kidney stone or a stroke you risk facing medical bills which will destroy you financially.
With no deal Expat pensioner health cover in France will end on 29 March 2019.
What would you like to say to the UK Expat retiree receiving cancer treatment today?
I am not offended. People are entitled to their opinion but I reserve the right to challenge the disregard of Brexit consequences based in a belief the politicians will sort it out.
The concept of a world of free trade is wonderful - wonderfully naive. The world is headed in a different direction where the self interest of the larger trading blocks and governance of ever reducing natural resources will play an increasing role. FOR EVERYBODY it is a question of whose tune do you want to play.
Maverick independence will likely come at a heavy price.
The referendum empowered the electorate to make a decision on behalf of society. Implicit to such empowerment is responsibility for the decision. If you believe in the democratic power of the people politicians are just a tool in the process whether they sit in Westminster, Brussels or Washington.
Abdicating responsibility abuses the type of democracy you voted for. If you use a plumber to work for you and they screw up you are still responsible for the outcome. You chose to empower them.
I still struggle to see anywhere in the pro Brexit belief system the evaluation of the "snake oil" that was on offer and why when viewing the scale of the challenge anyone would assess any level of politics had the capacity to address the complexity of the task. It had/ has "Cowboy Builders" written all over it.
Not one political group offers a tangible coherent plan. Give a shit or not, point fingers where you "may" but the consequences of Brexit will be laid at your door.
We all respect the right of the British people to choose their democratic path but did you vote for negative outcomes for the Expat community? Or as Fox News pronounces (As per Farage) the displacement of 6mn EU citizens?
Ibborg is right we threw everything up in the air. Now just 6 months before the due date nobody knows when & where the pieces will fall. Uncertainties abound.
Theresa May stated a year ago UK pensions & health cover for EU Expats will continue under a Withdrawal Agreement. There is no WA. The French civil service just blew a hole in that assurance. Speak to the French Prefecture or the FCO. No one has any answers.
The assumptions & platitudes are a mindless convenience.
Everyday lives do not deal with uncertainties. When it comes to practicalities the politics will be irrelevant. Civil Servants in health, in financial services, at the border, in container ports follow rules. No politician will be in sight.
As of now from April 2019 the UK will be out of the EU. Every UK citizen, trader, financial service will, from that date, be subject to different rules.
The French Civil Service are defaulting to rules applying to other Non EU countries & citizens.
This is the decision of UK voters & government. We initiated Article 50. We, nobody else, chose to impose non EU rules on ourselves.
We are leaving. We are supposed to be negotiating how we leave. Yet not the electorate, Parliament, the Tories or Government can even agree how we leave. Until you have consensus the rest is just noise.
It is all anybody has produced In 2yrs. Nobody can offer answers which will not threaten the living standards of UK citizens for the foreseeable future or threaten the unity of the EU.
The EU are respecting the decision we made, protecting the rules we lived by for 40yrs, their interests and demanding we as a sovereign nation honour our previous financial commitments. No matter your view, prejudice or rationale no one is offering the EU a compelling argument for change.
Yet do not the French, Dutch, Germans, etc. share the frustrations facing people in the UK re unemployment, immigration & inequality? They just do not have the either the desire or ability to pull up a drawbridge and run away.
In France the jobs market is often an endless routine of meaningless training courses mixed with an occasional 6 month government subsidised contract. Many view Macron who has now proclaimed "the French cannot afford to look after their poor" as out of his depth.
Paranoid about the "black economy" he is determined to achieve a cashless society. His tax regime assumes every trader "cheats" on their tax thus pummelling small businesses & mini entrepreneurs. It is counter productive at every level. I doubt many local economies would function without the "black economy".
The French people, like the Germans, Spanish etc., have their own problems and for the most part will not give the UK leaving the EU a second thought. We chose to leave the building and throw away the keys.
Until the UK government can determine what keys it wants and needs for its businesses and citizenry to survive let alone prosper the door will be shut.
Two years of posturing have taken us further away from consensus. On such evidence alone how does anyone believe politicians will find any answers in the next 6 months. Sometimes the wilful naivety is breathtaking.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
In fairness to her, what she was saying was that she did not realise that politics in Northern Ireland were as polarised as they are, and so different from what she knew as a candidate.
She wasn't claiming that she had known nothing, but that she had not been aware the extent to which many politicians in Northern Ireland do not even seek to persuade those with different opinions, and that to even try is often a waste of time - in contrast to her own experience of seeking to win over voters who may have supported Labour or the Lib Dems.
I'm not trying to say that she is brilliant, or even competent, but she is honest enough to recognise and admit that she was not prepared for the reality of Northern Irish political divisions as expressed at the ballot box (and, IMHO, she is not unique in her lack of prior knowledge).
Quite frankly it’s quite an admission that she wasn’t aware of the polarised views and entrenched positions in NI. I would agree with @Red_in_SE8 on this occasion that it seems incredulous that any British politician, particularly one seeking office of state could be so ignorant.
It’s pretty obvious though that her situation is not unique within the government on a range of issues where a detailed knowledge of the brief is sadly lacking.
For what it's worth, I don't believe that many other Secretaries of State or direct rule Ministers/Junior Ministers have been anything other than blithely unaware of the detail of political life here prior to appointment - if for no other reason than that it wasn't something that they had to concern themselves with until being appointed.
There are significant numbers of voters in Northern Ireland who vote for either Sinn Fein or the DUP who, in the rest of the UK would not gravitate to the extreme edge of the political spectrum. There is not the same fluidity of voting intentions in the middle ground, even amongst those middle class/professional groups that might be believed to be willing to compromise.
I’m assuming that as part of the “coalition” she (Bradley) would have had the pleasure of doing business with the DUP ? I would have thought that even the most peripheral involvement would have been enough to make her think that NI politics is not quite the same as those found in Maidenhead South or wherever.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
In fairness to her, what she was saying was that she did not realise that politics in Northern Ireland were as polarised as they are, and so different from what she knew as a candidate.
She wasn't claiming that she had known nothing, but that she had not been aware the extent to which many politicians in Northern Ireland do not even seek to persuade those with different opinions, and that to even try is often a waste of time - in contrast to her own experience of seeking to win over voters who may have supported Labour or the Lib Dems.
I'm not trying to say that she is brilliant, or even competent, but she is honest enough to recognise and admit that she was not prepared for the reality of Northern Irish political divisions as expressed at the ballot box (and, IMHO, she is not unique in her lack of prior knowledge).
What is of interest is that it has been announced that she is "blocking" N.Ireland assembly elections for fear of triggering the GFA provision for a referendum on reunification. This is escalating into a crisis and has obviously been the Sinn Fein agenda all along.
And to add to the controversy there are polls all over the place on the reunification question and no reliable benchmark whatsoever. Some will push on what they think is an open door but then find it blocked...
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
In fairness to her, what she was saying was that she did not realise that politics in Northern Ireland were as polarised as they are, and so different from what she knew as a candidate.
She wasn't claiming that she had known nothing, but that she had not been aware the extent to which many politicians in Northern Ireland do not even seek to persuade those with different opinions, and that to even try is often a waste of time - in contrast to her own experience of seeking to win over voters who may have supported Labour or the Lib Dems.
I'm not trying to say that she is brilliant, or even competent, but she is honest enough to recognise and admit that she was not prepared for the reality of Northern Irish political divisions as expressed at the ballot box (and, IMHO, she is not unique in her lack of prior knowledge).
Quite frankly it’s quite an admission that she wasn’t aware of the polarised views and entrenched positions in NI. I would agree with @Red_in_SE8 on this occasion that it seems incredulous that any British politician, particularly one seeking office of state could be so ignorant.
It’s pretty obvious though that her situation is not unique within the government on a range of issues where a detailed knowledge of the brief is sadly lacking.
For what it's worth, I don't believe that many other Secretaries of State or direct rule Ministers/Junior Ministers have been anything other than blithely unaware of the detail of political life here prior to appointment - if for no other reason than that it wasn't something that they had to concern themselves with until being appointed.
There are significant numbers of voters in Northern Ireland who vote for either Sinn Fein or the DUP who, in the rest of the UK would not gravitate to the extreme edge of the political spectrum. There is not the same fluidity of voting intentions in the middle ground, even amongst those middle class/professional groups that might be believed to be willing to compromise.
I’m assuming that as part of the “coalition” she (Bradley) would have had the pleasure of doing business with the DUP ? I would have thought that even the most peripheral involvement would have been enough to make her think that NI politics is not quite the same as those found in Maidenhead South or wherever.
I have no doubt that she was fully aware that the political environment of, and the type of politicians representing, Northern Ireland differ from England and Wales, but, reading her comments, it seems clear to me that she was making the point that Northern Ireland doesn't have the same possibility of floating voters that can be enticed across the boundary, so that the Unionist and Nationalist parties are effectively only targeting other Unionist and Nationalist party voters: she was making clear that unlike centrist Labour or Conservative voters, who might be tempted to vote across the divide, no such possibility really exists in Northern Ireland (if it did, the Alliance Party would probably be much stronger).
What her admission highlights, however, is that, for all the talk of "shy Unionists" among the Catholic middle class, political support at local, Assembly and General Elections would support the continuing use of a crude sectarian headcount as a barometer for political support here. So, while polling has often suggested that the "shy Unionists" would not support dissolution of the Union, it may not mean that they would vote to retain the Union, should there be a border poll, particularly because the campaigning (just as, for the most part, the Brexit divisions have) would be likely to retreat back into sectarian (dis)comfort zones.
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!
I agree.....staggering how some MP's get ministerial jobs.
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
It's going to pain me, but I do feel obliged to defend Karen Bradley to a certain degree.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
I can categorically state that I knew and understood more about the history and politics of Northern Ireland when I was 16 than this idiot who has been the Northern Ireland secretary for the last 9 months. There is no excuse for this. You cannot seriously expect us to believe there have been previous Northern Ireland secretaries with anywhere near this level of rank stupidity and ignorance. I would love to ask her how she thinks the protestants came to be living in Northern Ireland in the first place. She probably thinks there must have been a geological incident in the 18th century that resulted in Ireland detaching from Great Britain!
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
In fairness to her, what she was saying was that she did not realise that politics in Northern Ireland were as polarised as they are, and so different from what she knew as a candidate.
She wasn't claiming that she had known nothing, but that she had not been aware the extent to which many politicians in Northern Ireland do not even seek to persuade those with different opinions, and that to even try is often a waste of time - in contrast to her own experience of seeking to win over voters who may have supported Labour or the Lib Dems.
I'm not trying to say that she is brilliant, or even competent, but she is honest enough to recognise and admit that she was not prepared for the reality of Northern Irish political divisions as expressed at the ballot box (and, IMHO, she is not unique in her lack of prior knowledge).
What is of interest is that it has been announced that she is "blocking" N.Ireland assembly elections for fear of triggering the GFA provision for a referendum on reunification. This is escalating into a crisis and has obviously been the Sinn Fein agenda all along.
And to add to the controversy there are polls all over the place on the reunification question and no reliable benchmark whatsoever. Some will push on what they think is an open door but then find it blocked...
Well done Cameron and Farage!
To be quite honest, there's no point in calling Assembly elections because, unless something dramatic happens, the result would be simple restating of the current situation and would solidify the current impasse. I accept that it is what should be done under the GFA (but then, so are regular meetings of the inter-governmental conference), but it would just be a waste of money and would be doing something, just to be seen to be doing something.
Now, if it actually looked as if Sinn Fein would gain more seats than the DUP, there might be a return to Stormont, but, as the Electoral Commission appears to have taken on board DUP (and only DUP) objections when discussing redrawing electoral boundaries in Northern Ireland, perhaps Mrs Foster is playing a longer game.
There is a perfect storm developing in Northern Ireland, which could seriously undermine the political settlement here, there doesn't appear to be any chance of anything actually happening to improve matters (the best we can hope for is that nothing will happen to make things worse).
I'm definitely not suggesting that she is either effective or competent. Just that her published statements are not a demonstration of particular ignorance or stupidity.
Comments
As an aside.......Newsnight did a piece on NI tonight saying that a Referendum on a united Ireland could go yhe way of the Nationalists.
Now that would be a way to solve "the Irish problem"......let them unite & join the EU. Wont need to worry about a border then.
"Karen Bradley Admits She Thought IRA and UDA Were The Jewish Couple Who Lived ‘Two Doors Down"
Now that really proves who's the thickest in UK politics.
That's how it works I think...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/number-of-homeless-people-dying-more-than-doubles-in-five-years-figures-show-a8298981.html
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/tory-austerity-deaths-study-report-people-die-social-care-government-policy-a8057306.html
If only 10% is true, that's still 12'000 people too many being killed by government policy, now.
All she was doing was being honest.
It is common, and always has been, for incoming Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland to not understand politics here before their appointment.
Generally speaking, people like Peter Hain might have been an exception (but he still had a very specific view of Northern Ireland, so some will have argued that he did not understand their perspective), UK politicians have had no interest in Northern Ireland, other than to limit the potential for violence (either real or threatened), which is why Northern Ireland was allowed be created and maintained for half a century as a sectarian statelet.
Secretaries of State do come to understand the politics here, a process closely linked to increasing feelings of depression (very much so in the non-medical understanding of the word), incomprehension and negativity, and a desperate willingness to be anywhere else.
Gavin Williamson, Liam Fox and this idiot in the same government cabinet involved in making monumental decisions about our country's future! Morons elected by morons. I am glad I am as old as I am. I have lost all hope for the future of this country.
You have flagged my last post. I don't give a toss about people giving me flags, especially when they are from serial flaggers like you. But I would really be interested in what motivated this flag. I originally wrote "retard" instead of "idiot" but elected to change it because I thought that word might cause offence. Why are you wasting moderators time. I know you have spent many years living in China, a country where free speech and criticism of government and ruling elites is not tolerated. Do you think, sub consciously you have been affected by living under this regime and so think you have to constantly urge moderators of a football forum in a free democratic country in the western world to scrutinise and censor every post you think is contentious and you seek to take offence to?
I know I sometimes post similar things, but I don't cry about it when those posts get flagged.
She wasn't claiming that she had known nothing, but that she had not been aware the extent to which many politicians in Northern Ireland do not even seek to persuade those with different opinions, and that to even try is often a waste of time - in contrast to her own experience of seeking to win over voters who may have supported Labour or the Lib Dems.
I'm not trying to say that she is brilliant, or even competent, but she is honest enough to recognise and admit that she was not prepared for the reality of Northern Irish political divisions as expressed at the ballot box (and, IMHO, she is not unique in her lack of prior knowledge).
It’s pretty obvious though that her situation is not unique within the government on a range of issues where a detailed knowledge of the brief is sadly lacking.
There are significant numbers of voters in Northern Ireland who vote for either Sinn Fein or the DUP who, in the rest of the UK would not gravitate to the extreme edge of the political spectrum. There is not the same fluidity of voting intentions in the middle ground, even amongst those middle class/professional groups that might be believed to be willing to compromise.
I regret anyone's departure from this forum.
Yes, the threat of the current Euros' demise remains but if global politicians can take on prodigious toxic debt buying "questionable assets" from banks to keep a failed global banking system trading they will find a way to preserve a currency built for a federal union. Will it end in tears? Probably but whose tears in whose lifetime is anyone's guess.
Yet using a predicted collapse of the Euro rationale for leaving the EU highlights the paradox. Brexit just empowered politicians to rip up 40yrs of trading & social infrastructure.
There is little new debate to be had. The winning obsession is 2yrs old. Individual pro Brexit logic rarely if ever addresses the underlying challenges let alone provides compelling evidence how our new freedom will benefit UK citizenry as the negatives begin to hove into view.
Is it not telling the commercial elite are bending ears as never before to secure guarantees or exemptions with the PL now adding its voice? Why when players of proven international status can secure a Visa. Sorry, everybody else is subject to freedom of movement controls.
In the real world the vast majority of retired Expats living in France spent much of their working lives in the UK. Those with UK properties able to return with little difficulty in my region are likely no more than 10% of Expats. The "fat pensions" whinging over exchange rates tend to be UK residents with holiday homes and no different to the "fat pensions" in the UK.
Working Expats will be paying into the French social system. Their Carte Vitale and health cover will be covered by the French Government.
The retired Expat to receive "NHS" health cover in France has to be in receipt of a UK State pension (meet N.I. criteria). Health costs are billed to their French Carte Vitale and collectively paid for by UK social services.
Many will have faced UK employment/ housing challenges. A swathe hit the "ageist/ cost barriers" in UK employment in their 50's. There are few social elite just middle/ working class folk. No bowls clubs round here.
Ibborg is right the referendum threw everything up in the air. What goes up must come down yet 6 months before the due date nobody knows when and where the pieces will fall.
I believe there are 2.2mn UK Expats in the EU with circa 250k in France. I guess 30% have nowhere else to go while 80% face having their lives turned upside. With no health care cover whether you have a kidney stone or a stroke you risk facing medical bills which will destroy you financially.
With no deal Expat pensioner health cover in France will end on 29 March 2019.
What would you like to say to the UK Expat retiree receiving cancer treatment today?
I am not offended. People are entitled to their opinion but I reserve the right to challenge the disregard of Brexit consequences based in a belief the politicians will sort it out.
The concept of a world of free trade is wonderful - wonderfully naive. The world is headed in a different direction where the self interest of the larger trading blocks and governance of ever reducing natural resources will play an increasing role. FOR EVERYBODY it is a question of whose tune do you want to play.
Maverick independence will likely come at a heavy price.
The referendum empowered the electorate to make a decision on behalf of society. Implicit to such empowerment is responsibility for the decision. If you believe in the democratic power of the people politicians are just a tool in the process whether they sit in Westminster, Brussels or Washington.
Abdicating responsibility abuses the type of democracy you voted for. If you use a plumber to work for you and they screw up you are still responsible for the outcome. You chose to empower them.
I still struggle to see anywhere in the pro Brexit belief system the evaluation of the "snake oil" that was on offer and why when viewing the scale of the challenge anyone would assess any level of politics had the capacity to address the complexity of the task. It had/ has "Cowboy Builders" written all over it.
Not one political group offers a tangible coherent plan. Give a shit or not, point fingers where you "may" but the consequences of Brexit will be laid at your door.
We all respect the right of the British people to choose their democratic path but did you vote for negative outcomes for the Expat community? Or as Fox News pronounces (As per Farage) the displacement of 6mn EU citizens?
Ibborg is right we threw everything up in the air. Now just 6 months before the due date nobody knows when & where the pieces will fall. Uncertainties abound.
Theresa May stated a year ago UK pensions & health cover for EU Expats will continue under a Withdrawal Agreement. There is no WA. The French civil service just blew a hole in that assurance. Speak to the French Prefecture or the FCO. No one has any answers.
The assumptions & platitudes are a mindless convenience.
Everyday lives do not deal with uncertainties. When it comes to practicalities the politics will be irrelevant. Civil Servants in health, in financial services, at the border, in container ports follow rules. No politician will be in sight.
As of now from April 2019 the UK will be out of the EU. Every UK citizen, trader, financial service will, from that date, be subject to different rules.
The French Civil Service are defaulting to rules applying to other Non EU countries & citizens.
This is the decision of UK voters & government. We initiated Article 50. We, nobody else, chose to impose non EU rules on ourselves.
We are leaving. We are supposed to be negotiating how we leave. Yet not the electorate, Parliament, the Tories or Government can even agree how we leave. Until you have consensus the rest is just noise.
It is all anybody has produced In 2yrs. Nobody can offer answers which will not threaten the living standards of UK citizens for the foreseeable future or threaten the unity of the EU.
The EU are respecting the decision we made, protecting the rules we lived by for 40yrs, their interests and demanding we as a sovereign nation honour our previous financial commitments. No matter your view, prejudice or rationale no one is offering the EU a compelling argument for change.
Yet do not the French, Dutch, Germans, etc. share the frustrations facing people in the UK re unemployment, immigration & inequality? They just do not have the either the desire or ability to pull up a drawbridge and run away.
In France the jobs market is often an endless routine of meaningless training courses mixed with an occasional 6 month government subsidised contract. Many view Macron who has now proclaimed "the French cannot afford to look after their poor" as out of his depth.
Paranoid about the "black economy" he is determined to achieve a cashless society. His tax regime assumes every trader "cheats" on their tax thus pummelling small businesses & mini entrepreneurs. It is counter productive at every level. I doubt many local economies would function without the "black economy".
The French people, like the Germans, Spanish etc., have their own problems and for the most part will not give the UK leaving the EU a second thought. We chose to leave the building and throw away the keys.
Until the UK government can determine what keys it wants and needs for its businesses and citizenry to survive let alone prosper the door will be shut.
Two years of posturing have taken us further away from consensus. On such evidence alone how does anyone believe politicians will find any answers in the next 6 months. Sometimes the wilful naivety is breathtaking.
And to add to the controversy there are polls all over the place on the reunification question and no reliable benchmark whatsoever. Some will push on what they think is an open door but then find it blocked...
Well done Cameron and Farage!
What her admission highlights, however, is that, for all the talk of "shy Unionists" among the Catholic middle class, political support at local, Assembly and General Elections would support the continuing use of a crude sectarian headcount as a barometer for political support here. So, while polling has often suggested that the "shy Unionists" would not support dissolution of the Union, it may not mean that they would vote to retain the Union, should there be a border poll, particularly because the campaigning (just as, for the most part, the Brexit divisions have) would be likely to retreat back into sectarian (dis)comfort zones.
Now, if it actually looked as if Sinn Fein would gain more seats than the DUP, there might be a return to Stormont, but, as the Electoral Commission appears to have taken on board DUP (and only DUP) objections when discussing redrawing electoral boundaries in Northern Ireland, perhaps Mrs Foster is playing a longer game.
There is a perfect storm developing in Northern Ireland, which could seriously undermine the political settlement here, there doesn't appear to be any chance of anything actually happening to improve matters (the best we can hope for is that nothing will happen to make things worse).
Do keep up.
You accused me of supporting the Tories.
I'll say it again.
Where?
#fakelies